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Presidential Debate #1 |Hofstra University| PRESS X TO SEAN

Who won the debate?


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MisterR

Member
No I'm just saying the winner is decided in Nov. In fact, studies show that general election debates rarely move the needle for people (except for daily polls of course) - there are very few undecideds this time around.



Yes, I know. Just trying to make a larger META DUDE point.

Actually per 538, the debates generally move the needle 2-4 points, that doesn't always hold all the way until the election of course. Romney got a good bounce from the first debate in 2012, but lost that bounce after the other debates.
 
In case it hasn't been posted, here's a really good transcript of the debate with sources cited and fact checking:

http://www.npr.org/2016/495115346/fact-check-first-presidential-debate

I didn't watch all of the debate because I really can't stand listening to Trump, but reading through the transcripts with all the added fact checking shows a lot.

Also Lester did a piss poor job of actually moderating. How the fuck do you let someone interrupt that much.

I think he should have been more forceful in shutting Trump up but they let both candidates talk over time all the time so whatever. Honestly it was better to let him ramble on and on.
 
I do feel that this election is different since one candidate is so extreme in his views and actions. He said and admitted to some pretty crazy things last night that are ABSOLUTELY NOT NORMAL for a presidential candidate.

He also struggles to form complete intelligible sentences. A lot of people, for the first time, watched Trump being Trump for a duration longer than an edited sound bite here and there. You don't typically have one candidate babbling nonsense for 2/3 of a debate.
 

Mahonay

Banned
I think he should have been more forceful in shutting Trump up but they let both candidates talk over time all the time so whatever. Honestly it was better to let him ramble on and on.
Yeah in the end Trump interrupting so he could keep rambling on worked against himself, since he seemed irate and often dug holes deeper for himself with out the help of Hillary.
 

xandaca

Member
What's remarkable is that a businessman in Trump's position was so bad at communicating, even taking debate inexperience into account. How can you position yourself as a tough negotiator if you can barely form a coherent sentence under the spotlight? You could see the germs of potentially potent attacks on Clinton's credibility re: foreign interventions, black lives, the economy etc, yet each got little more than a cursory mention before jabbering onto a different tangent.

Even his 'I pay no taxes, it's good business' stuff could almost have worked if he'd linked it to people like Clinton and husband being in the corporate pocket (and Trump's wedding) leaving loopholes open for big business to exploit. Instead, he just sort of boasted about paying no tax, which might play OK to the arch-Republican crowd, but likely won't be a hit with the undecideds.

Any semi-competent debater could've torn Clinton to shreds on virtually every issue, but she was given a clear run to the finish - and while she had some decent plays provoking his ego, she still struggled to come across as anything more than as over-rehearsed and insincere, especially that painful Trumped Up Trickle Down bit. As many have said, these are two candidates who could not have been luckier to face each other.
 
I remember a while ago Clyde Mandelin mentioned the absolute difficulty of trying to translate Trump into other languages (specifically Japanese since that's his specialty)

I couldn't understand half the crap Trump was saying, it was all word vomit and nonsense. He's basically become the Old Man Monologue ("So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time").

You can call Trump "real", but realize that it's not a good thing.
Got a link about this? I tried searching but the only thing relevant Google found was this thread...
 
He also struggles to form complete intelligible sentences. A lot of people, for the first time, watched Trump being Trump for a duration longer than an edited sound bite here and there. You don't typically have one candidate babbling nonsense for 2/3 of a debate.

This is truly an election for the ages. An experienced politician, vs a fifth grader in a old's body. And that body has a bad combover, a cheeto tan and terrible views.
 

Macleoid

Member
So Fox was just saying it was a clear tie, but because Trump was the "challenger" and because he was able to stand up there for 90 minutes (???) he automatically wins.

Fucking. Fox. LITERALLY propaganda. LITERALLY.

I hate to say it but I think there is at least a chance they are right. Just by being in the debate he is now a real candidate and that gives him the appearance of legitimacy. It will take a few days before polls properly represent what effect this debate has had because it's a wider effect than the 'who won perception' on the night.

Of course the sickening part is that Fox News propaganda saying he didn't loose is part of what builds the overall perception that makes that true for the swing voters how matter.
 

Sephzilla

Member
Yeah Lester did a really poor job of keeping Trump in check and actually shutting Trump up when he ran over his time. Granted, if he actually did this we probably wouldn't have seen Trump melt down as much as he did.
 

RPGCrazied

Member
I hate to say it but I think there is at least a chance they are right. Just by being in the debate he is now a real candidate and that gives him the appearance of legitimacy. It will take a few days before polls properly represent what effect this debate has had because it's a wider effect than the 'who won perception' on the night.

Of course the sickening part is that Fox News propaganda saying he didn't loose is part of what builds the overall perception that makes that true for the swing voters how matter.

Nah. He was drinking water like little macro. She didn't. She could outlast him in a heartbeat. Fox is just being Fox. Pander to the alt right base. He got slaughtered end of story.
 
Anyone got a .gif of Hillary's shoulder shimmy?

This was posted earlier:

hrBFc4j.gif
 
What saddens me is the amount of Trump won or both sides are awful posts, I see going around.

Hillary discussed her policy as well as subtly baiting Trump. Trump rambled incoherently about boogeyman like China, Mexico, etc. as well as lying numerous times. It reminded me of high school where it's the likable alpha male vs. the timid student. The likable alpha male just tells everyone what they want to hear, not what is actually feasible, and also bullies the other candidate relentlessly. Meanwhile the other student actually discusses real issues and feasible solutions to those issues.
 

dankir

Member
I really thought Roger Ailes would prep him better at least in the way he talks. He has many problems but man once he starts speaking its a just jumbled mess of words, repeated words. THE BEST WORDS.
 
Pretty unbelievable there are so many morons. I can't understand how that can be.

Spend enough time online and nothing surprises you.

People are apathetic and the Fuck You, Got Mine mentality is the crux of the "American Dream" as most people see it.

I mean hell, last night Hillary said Trump dodges taxes and he said "That's Smart" while he's been calling Hillary crooked for the whole election. She pays a proportionate amount of taxes and is not above taxing herself to make sure there's money for federal projects.

Yet Trump is the "smart businessman" even though he's ruined many people in his wake of failed ventures. Yet the lady doing work for the US for years is referred to as insincere in this very thread.

FOH with that bullshit.

I
Of course the sickening part is that Fox News propaganda saying he didn't loose is part of what builds the overall perception that makes that true for the swing voters how matter.

The FYGM in full effect - FOX news loves making money off people by "making things interesting". They don't care about the US, they don't care about reporting or journalism.

They care about that almighty dollar, praise the lord and pass the ammunition.
 

Mahonay

Banned
What's remarkable is that a businessman in Trump's position was so bad at communicating, even taking debate inexperience into account. How can you position yourself as a tough negotiator if you can barely form a coherent sentence under the spotlight? You could see the germs of potentially potent attacks on Clinton's credibility re: foreign interventions, black lives, the economy etc, yet each got little more than a cursory mention before jabbering onto a different tangent.

Even his 'I pay no taxes, it's good business' stuff could almost have worked if he'd linked it to people like Clinton and husband being in the corporate pocket (and Trump's wedding) leaving loopholes open for big business to exploit. Instead, he just sort of boasted about paying no tax, which might play OK to the arch-Republican crowd, but likely won't be a hit with the undecideds.

Any semi-competent debater could've torn Clinton to shreds on virtually every issue, but she was given a clear run to the finish - and while she had some decent plays provoking his ego, she still struggled to come across as anything more than as over-rehearsed and insincere, especially that painful Trumped Up Trickle Down bit. As many have said, these are two candidates who could not have been luckier to face each other.
It seems very clear to me now that he approaches these debates probably in the same exact way he does his board meetings. Just be very loud, aggressive, belittling, proclaim yourself smarter than everyone in the room, and then flat out deny anything you might have done that was wrong in the past even if there's clear evidence of the contrary. He found out the hard way this tactic doesn't work in both situations.
 

MIMIC

Banned
Yeah Trump just walked right over him which really pissed me off, but Lester needed to shut him down when Trump just basically told him to shut up so he could keep ranting. He kind of lost control at some point.

Really the only thing you can do as a moderator is either 1) get louder than Trump (and it essentially turns into an embarrassing screaming match) or 2) cut his mic. Either option steals the focus away from the debate/topics. If someone like Trump is that uncontrolled in a formal setting, there is only so much you can do. Maybe Lester could have taken the time to admonish Trump about interrupting the moderator, but since he'd probably do it again, I don't see anything "effective" that he could have done.
 

Tobor

Member
I really thought Roger Ailes would prep him better at least in the way he talks. He has many problems but man once he starts speaking its a just jumbled mess of words, repeated words. THE BEST WORDS.

This is proof he is unpreppable. His biographer states he has the attention span of a goldfish, and it shows.

How could anyone keep his attention long enough to prep him for anything, let alone a debate?
 
I was worried about how the debate might go with Trump being the unpredictable headline generator he is.

But both candidates did how you would expect. Trump acted like Trump and just kind of rambled loudly. Clinton was calm and to-the-point. I can't imagine this changing the minds of anyone in Trump's camp but hopefully the undecideds come to their senses now seeing the contrast.
 
Yeah Trump just walked right over him which really pissed me off, but Lester needed to shut him down when Trump just basically told him to shut up so he could keep ranting. He kind of lost control at some point.

I think Lester allowing Trump to continue on led to Trump destroying himself. Watching the debate I was infuriated that Trump had no regard towards the moderator, but now I realize that most of Trump's inane babbling and rambling was from him trying to squeeze everything out in his overtime.
 

DedValve

Banned
"Hillary sucked" or "they both sucked" rub me the wrong way in a debate where 1 of them was acting presidential, giving out clear and coherent answers, solid plans. You may not like those very well spoken plans or her views but she certainly did not suck. Your mind may not have been changed or swayed by her but to say that she did poorly in the debate is blatantly ignoring how well she was performing, not just against Trump, that dude was unhinged. But just in general, her answers were well spoken, she didn't get shaken by Trump at any point, she hardly interrupted and didn't allow herself to be interrupted as easily.

The way she talked over Trump was fun to watch.
 

Mahonay

Banned
Really the only thing you can do as a moderator is either 1) get louder than Trump (and it essentially turns into an embarrassing screaming match) or 2) cut his mic. Either option steals the focus away from the debate/topics. If someone like Trump is that uncontrolled in a formal setting, there is only so much you can do. Maybe Lester could have taken the time to admonish Trump about interrupting the moderator, but since he'd probably do it again, I don't see anything "effective" that he could have done.
Yeah for sure. And like I said earlier, it ended up working against Trump anyways as he just dug holes for himself.
I think Lester allowing Trump to continue on led to Trump destroying himself. Watching the debate I was infuriated that Trump had no regard towards the moderator, but now I realize that most of Trump's inane babbling and rambling was from him trying to squeeze everything out in his overtime.
Exactly.
 
Spend enough time online and nothing surprises you.

People are apathetic and the Fuck You, Got Mine mentality is the crux of the "American Dream" as most people see it.

I mean hell, last night Hillary said Trump dodges taxes and he said "That's Smart" while he's been calling Hillary crooked for the whole election. She pays a proportionate amount of taxes and is not above taxing herself to make sure there's money for federal projects.

Yet Trump is the "smart businessman" even though he's ruined many people in his wake of failed ventures. Yet the lady doing work for the US for years is referred to as insincere in this very thread.

FOH with that bullshit.

The whole tax thing was surreal. He basically said regular Americans are idiots for doing their duty and paying taxes. How can anyone trash regular folks like that and hope to get elected?
 

Ithil

Member
Hillary was Mickey Gall

Trump was CM Punk

eK2ZMWJ.gif

Punk, a non-fighter who did some training and thought it would be enough to go professional, got dismantled by Gall, who has been in sports and fighting for much of his life.

That is indeed an ideal metaphor for the ill-prepared Trump vs experienced debater Clinton.
 

Mahonay

Banned
Appreciate the responses guys! I don't watch this stuff and i'm curious from a far this election for some reason. Well actually the reason is maybe kind of clear...

Also i had no idea Punk was fighting already. Thats the most useful information in this thread lol. He got his ass beat!
 
"Hillary sucked" or "they both sucked" rub me the wrong way in a debate where 1 of them was acting presidential, giving out clear and coherent answers, solid plans. You may not like those very well spoken plans or her views but she certainly did not suck. Your mind may not have been changed or swayed by her but to say that she did poorly in the debate is blatantly ignoring how well she was performing, not just against Trump, that dude was unhinged. But just in general, her answers were well spoken, she didn't get shaken by Trump at any point, she hardly interrupted and didn't allow herself to be interrupted as easily.

The way she talked over Trump was fun to watch.

Her Clinton-shuffle reaction to his temperament rant had me rolling in my chair. It was one of those few moments you see a peak into her personality.

She needs to continue playing on that, I think. Still being clear and coherent, sticking to policy, but eat that shit up. She's far beyond that clown and she knows it.
 

Oersted

Member
Punk, a non-fighter who did some training and thought it would be enough to go professional, got dismantled by Gall, who has been in sports and fighting for much of his life.

That is indeed an ideal metaphor for the ill-prepared Trump vs experienced debater Clinton.

Also both rich, famous trough Tv shows...
 

Meier

Member
This whole concept of people slamming Hillary because she "will say anything to win" is such a ridiculous statement as well. What politician doesn't say things with the intention of gaining support? The reality is that Hillary says substantive things. She speaks about ideas and ways we can improve the country. Donald lacks that capability because he frankly isn't equipped for it. He has no clue at all. And that ignorance is somehow seen by his supporters as a good thing. You've got 40% of the country or thereabouts willfully championing a basic lack of understanding of governance.
 
David French from the National Review: "I felt like I was watching the political Titanic hit the iceberg, back up, and hit it again. Just for fun."

LOL.
 

ryseing

Member
In case it hasn't been posted, here's a really good transcript of the debate with sources cited and fact checking:

http://www.npr.org/2016/495115346/fact-check-first-presidential-debate

I didn't watch all of the debate because I really can't stand listening to Trump, but reading through the transcripts with all the added fact checking shows a lot.

Also Lester did a piss poor job of actually moderating. How the fuck do you let someone interrupt that much.

.

Didn't have a chance to watch it so thanks for the link. Absolutely incredible all around.
 
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