Pressing "NO TIP" when paying your barber is one of the most awkward interactions

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Maybe people shouldn't get mad at people who are not tipping but rather at the system that makes it so that the cost of a decent wage is thrown into the customers instead of the employers.

Really boggled the mind at how such a non pro-consumer stance is not only held, but also championed and even defended as well as safeguarded by so many people.
 
Laughing Banana said:
Maybe people shouldn't get mad at people who are not tipping but rather at the system that makes it so that the cost of a decent wage is thrown into the customers instead of the employers.

Really boggled the mind at how such a non pro-consumer stance is not only held, but also championed and even defended as well as safeguarded by so many people.
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Oh my god. Whether you pay a server directly with cash tip, or the establishment doesnt accept tips and includes the service fee in the food cost, you are still paying the servers wage. Where do you think wages come from? It comes from the money that customers give to the business.

This really isn't a difficult concept.
 
Laughing Banana said:
Maybe people shouldn't get mad at people who are not tipping but rather at the system that makes it so that the cost of a decent wage is thrown into the customers instead of the employers.

Really boggled the mind at how such a non pro-consumer stance is not only held, but also championed and even defended as well as safeguarded by so many people.
Click to expand...

Both systems exist. Somebody working at Supercuts or another chain is in employee paid hourly, so that's up to you if you want to tip them I guess. Those people get a wage that they agreed to but that's pretty much a cap on what they can expect to earn at a place like that. You're forced to work within that company's policies and services.

Someone who is renting a chair at the shop has the option to go above and beyond with their service to attract wealthier clients and generate much higher tips and charge higher prices, theoretically earning way more than someone would at a chain barbershop. These people have no safety net of being employee but I also have no ceiling on the amount that they can earn.
 
Laughing Banana said:
Maybe people shouldn't get mad at people who are not tipping but rather at the system that makes it so that the cost of a decent wage is thrown into the customers instead of the employers.

Really boggled the mind at how such a non pro-consumer stance is not only held, but also championed and even defended as well as safeguarded by so many people.
Click to expand...

Either way, the customer ends up paying. If there were no tips, the cost of the food and cuts would go up; the customer pays the same regardless. Neither system is pro-consumer or anti-consumer.

In a tipping system, there is an incentive for the barber or the waiter to go above and beyond in making the customer feel serviced. If the server or stylist does a bad job, then the customer is free to not pay them for the service portion of the price. The only time this falls apart is if the worker does a good job but the person doesn't tip because he has bad manners. That should be discouraged.

edit: lol, summed up in the two posts above :)
 
Tip your barber. I just did today and it's one situation where I really feel 100% comfortable. My barber is the nicest guy ever and he's still cutting hair at 83.
 
Transhuman said:
You take items and don't charge people who in return give you money that you don't give to the business? That sounds like stealing.
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Uh, no. Smart owners will encourage you to do this. Giving away a dessert that costs less than $2 to make, will make the customer feel more special, encouraging them to not only come back, but refer others to come. It goes hand in hand with comping a meal that was underwhelming, messed up or took too long to make.
 
MazeHaze said:
Oh my god. Whether you pay a server directly with cash tip, or the establishment doesnt accept tips and includes the service fee in the food cost, you are still paying the servers wage. Where do you think wages come from? It comes from the money that customers give to the business.

This really isn't a difficult concept.
Click to expand...

So? If both systems are the same in the end that the customers end up paying the same amount (which basically make the whole 'the prices are going to be cheaper' argument moot then), why rely on a system that basically depends on will I will I not and shaming to actually ensure the workers make good money? Why not use the system that is more certain, like you know, the one that the rest of the world is using?
 
MazeHaze said:
I love how everyone who uses the idiotic "pay them a fair wage" argument thinks if that happens they finally won't have to pay as much money for services.

The service fee would be included in the bill, and the price of everything would go up. Your still giving the server a service fee, you would just no longer have the option of rewarding excellent service.
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Restaurants in other countries does indeed has a service charge in addition to the bill to avoid the awkwardness, as the companies themselves act as the middleman. The restaurants collect the tips in the form of service charge, and then issue them formally to the employees in the form of better salaries or bonus. There are other ways where you can help reward the excellent service. Praise them to their supervisor or manager, email their HR and put in good words to the worker, leave a good review on social media, and others. why should the customers be the one providing the incentives for them to do well and not the companies themselves? Its only giving the companies some leeway to not give them a good wages, because the customers will top up the difference.

If you cannot afford the slight increased from the service fee, then like many people here said about no tipping: go eat at a cheaper place or go cook yourself.
 
Laughing Banana said:
So? If both systems are the same in the end that the customers end up paying the same amount (which basically make the whole 'the prices are going to be cheaper' argument moot then), why rely on a system that basically depends on will I will I not and shaming to actually ensure the workers make good money? Why not use the system that is more certain, like you know, the one that the rest of the world is using?
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You get the option of rewarding good service with a higher tip.
 
Laughing Banana said:
Maybe people shouldn't get mad at people who are not tipping but rather at the system that makes it so that the cost of a decent wage is thrown into the customers instead of the employers.

Really boggled the mind at how such a non pro-consumer stance is not only held, but also championed and even defended as well as safeguarded by so many people.
Click to expand...

I mean, it would make sense if there wasn't a billion and 1 other better ways to protest the problem that don't including stiffing someone who has no control over the system in any way whatsoever. Not tipping some rando literally does nothing against this nebulous cultural norm that is ingrained in American society.

Not tipping only has two possibilities:
1. Some weird made up belief that by stiffing this random service industry worker you're somehow fixing the problem and pressuring the system away from a tipped industry when in reality none of that is happening at all.
2. You're cheap and only in it for numero uno.

Pay the damn tip, gripe to yourself, and be done with it. Or, better yet, be proactive and go fight for fair wage of service industry workers instead of penalizing the service industry workers.
 
PdotMichael said:
not an American here.

Are there laws in the USA which would stop shops and companies to force their staff to also give them the received tips?
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Probably somewhere. Laws on tipping are basically about tax collection, some places tax based on "expected tips," meaning the government is taxing your income based on a tip you may not have gotten. Some places have laws that state that the tip can only go to the person it was given to, and that's to protect tipped wage workers from businesses trying to pocket their tips.

Generally there's aren't rules about where tips go, as a tip is gratuitous and discretionary. If you go into a business, you can give anybody a tip, be that the person that helped you or the business as a whole, or somebody you like that works there that had nothing to do with your service that day.
 
Conkerkid11 said:
Yikes, I'm afraid to read past the first page. What's up with GAF and tips? Why do so many of you think people who don't tip are scum?

I've said it a thousand times in previous GAF tipping threads, but I work a manual labor job in a FedEx Ground warehouse. I do a shit ton more work at a minimum wage job than a hairdresser or a waiter. I don't get tips. Why does someone else doing a basic ass job get paid significantly more than me, solely because they've managed to convince people that it's normal to pay them a random amount of money on top of the amount that their service is already valued at?
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Symphonia said:
You might not be an asshole, but tipping 40% extra when you've already paid the service charge is just plain dumb. Would you tip a GameStop employee an extra 20% on top of what you paid for the game simple because they did their job and sold you a game? Nah, didn't think so. The rule of thumb applies for restaurants and barbers, too. You've already paid them for the service/meal, if they want a tip, they can take it out of that. I'm not paying extra.
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Exactly.

I don't understand the argument people have that you need to tip barbers because they're a low paying job...like how is that different from any other low paying occupation that doesn't get tips?

You don't tip the cashier at McDonalds, or the mailman, or the warehouse worker, or a receptionist, or the grocery clerk, or the cook, or any other of the 90% jobs that are lower income that don't get tips.

What's supposed to happen is that tips are supposed to be just that...TIPS. Like you're giving them extra because you feel like they went above and beyond. It's not supposed to be OBLIGATORY. In America, somehow that happened with restaurants...where it's no longer seen as something you do out of the goodness of your heart, but something that's required as a baseline.

And I don't want to see that happen to other "industries."
 
MazeHaze said:
Oh my god. Whether you pay a server directly with cash tip, or the establishment doesnt accept tips and includes the service fee in the food cost, you are still paying the servers wage. Where do you think wages come from? It comes from the money that customers give to the business.

This really isn't a difficult concept.
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That doesn't mean they would yield equal costs. If businesses paid their waiters appropriately and raised their prices, they'd still have to compete. I guarantee the food wouldn't cost 20% more.
 
Maybe you should just tip, OP. Meanwhile, i'm tipping the standard amount as a poor college student and I still feel like they're mad at me when i'm leaving. People suck.
 
You Are Viewtiful said:
Either way, the customer ends up paying. If there were no tips, the cost of the food and cuts would go up; the customer pays the same regardless. Neither system is pro-consumer or anti-consumer.

In a tipping system, there is an incentive for the barber or the waiter to go above and beyond in making the customer feel serviced. If the server or stylist does a bad job, then the customer is free to not pay them for the service portion of the price. The only time this falls apart is if the worker does a good job but the person doesn't tip because he has bad manners. That should be discouraged.
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I'm not sure if this is really true. I'm not american so I'm probably wrong but judging on what I see in GAF threads about tipping It feels to me as tipping is something expected more than a reward, and no tipping makes you be a cheap (and for some,a free pass to do your job badly).

At the end we agree that you have to pay one way or another but I feel a no tipping service is more clear to the customer and avoids this tension about tip or not tip, or how much, and the problems that can come between the employee and the customer.
 
Two Words said:
That doesn't mean they would yield equal costs. If businesses paid their waiters appropriately and raised their prices, they'd still have to compete. I guarantee the food wouldn't cost 20% more.
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If all businesses had to abolish tipping, it certainly would. Where do you think that extra money for wages would come from? You can't get rid of customers paying servers a service fee directly (tipping) and have the restaurant pay the servers the difference without including a comparable service fee in the bill. That would mean people would be paying less for their meals, and the restaurant would be paying more for their labor cost. They would go out of business, this is impossible.

The labor cost of the restaurant would go up an extremely high amount if they raised servers wages to the average they make with their tips.
 
Truant said:
If the country had a tipping culture for those kinds of services, yes.
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I think when people hear things like "tipping culture" they assume this means that in America we give people extra free money on top of the money we already paid, because we want to "be nice"

It couldn't be further from the truth.

It's really this simple. In other, non-tipping culture/countries, a service fee is included in your bill.

In tipping based places, the service fee is NOT included in the bill, and instead there is a flexible service fee. A tip. This allows customers to pay a little more, or a little less depending on how they felt about the service.

If you don't tip in a tipping based country, you are literally just being an asshole and refusing to pay for part of the service.
 
MazeHaze said:
I love how everyone who uses the idiotic "pay them a fair wage" argument thinks if that happens they finally won't have to pay as much money for services.

The service fee would be included in the bill, and the price of everything would go up. Your still giving the server a service fee, you would just no longer have the option of rewarding excellent service.
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Of course you would. You can still tip your waiter if the service has been truly excellent, you're just not expected to do it by default just for them doing their job. That should already be included in the menu price, and that's how it works here in Sweden. Tips are a reward for when someone goes above and beyond their duties, not for simply doing their job.
 
Laughing Banana said:
Maybe people shouldn't get mad at people who are not tipping but rather at the system that makes it so that the cost of a decent wage is thrown into the customers instead of the employers.

Really boggled the mind at how such a non pro-consumer stance is not only held, but also championed and even defended as well as safeguarded by so many people.
Click to expand...
No, the people who don't tip (in the USA at least) are doing something wrong. You can rail against the system as much as you want, but by not tipping you are only hurting the low-wage earner that is serving you, not doing anything to change the system.
 
RoadHazard said:
Of course you would. You can still tip your waiter if the service has been truly excellent, you're just not expected to do it by default just for them doing their job. That should already be included in the menu price, and that's how it works here in Sweden. Tipping is for when someone goes above and beyond their duties, not for simply doing their job.
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Right, but in America the service industry has been tip based for decades, and tha majority of servers and patrons are happy because they all understand how it works.
 
Matt said:
No, the people who don't tip (in the USA at least) are doing something wrong. You can rail against the system as much as you want, but by not tipping you are only hurting the low-wage earner that is serving you, not doing anything to change the system.
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Right. It might be easier if you think of it as two seperate transactions, you pay the business for the product, and you pay the server directly for their service.

Stiffing in the US is just making the statement "fuck your service, I'm not paying extra to be waited on."
 
How do people not think it is insulting that people need to be tipped to do a good job? I tip as well, but only because it is a shitty social convention that is easier for me to follow than fight. I agree it sucks that waiters are paid shit. It sucks how their job is somehow treated differently. I don't tip them because their work deserved that particular amount of money or because I think it is necessary to ensure they do their job well. I tip because their employers pay them shit and expect me to be generous. It is nothing more than preying on my sympathy.


MazeHaze said:
If all businesses had to abolish tipping, it certainly would. Where do you think that extra money for wages would come from? You can't get rid of customers paying servers a service fee directly (tipping) and have the restaurant pay the servers the difference without including a comparable service fee in the bill. That would mean people would be paying less for their meals, and the restaurant would be paying more for their labor cost. They would go out of business, this is impossible.

The labor cost of the restaurant would go up an extremely high amount if they raised servers wages to the average they make with their tips.
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The real answer is that waiters wouldn't make as much as they make on tips and food wouldn't go as high as you're arguing.
 
Tips are an old thing that should die. Many countries don't even know what tips are and waiters there are still fantastic at their job... what if people just got the right money for what they do?
 
Korey said:
Exactly.

I don't understand the argument people have that you need to tip barbers because they're a low paying job...like how is that different from any other low paying occupation that doesn't get tips?

You don't tip the cashier at McDonalds, or the mailman, or the warehouse worker, or a receptionist, or the grocery clerk, or the cook, or any other of the 90% jobs that are lower income that don't get tips.

What's supposed to happen is that tips are supposed to be just that...TIPS. Like you're giving them extra because you feel like they went above and beyond. It's not supposed to be OBLIGATORY. In America, somehow that happened with restaurants...where it's no longer seen as something you do out of the goodness of your heart, but something that's required as a baseline.

And I don't want to see that happen to other "industries."
Click to expand...

Well exactly. Why the double standards? These people doesnt have much income too, and they didnt get tips. By the same logic, the people who doesnt tip these people are saying "fuck you services" as well and should feel ashame

"If you dont tip the McDonald cashier, then you are asking them to fuck your food up by spitting into your fries"
 
ArtHands said:
Well exactly. Why the double standards? These people doesnt have much income too, and they didnt get tips. By the same logic, the people who doesnt tip these people are saying "fuck you services" as well and should feel ashame

"If you dont tip the McDonald cashier, then you are asking them to fuck your food up by spitting into your fries"
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Jobs that don't typically get paid tips are paid more, and not taxed an amount that assumes they did get tips.
 
Vampirolol said:
Tips are an old thing that should die. Many countries don't even know what tips are and waiters there are still fantastic at their job... what if people just got the right money for what they do?
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I'm sorry but there's a clear difference between the customer service of countries where people tip and don't. It's not that uncommon for waiters to not smile or look you in the eyes here in finland for example...

(not that I would want a tipping system here)
 
Garuroh said:
What's wrong with no tipping people who delivers absolute trashy service?
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Well go ahead to not tipping them for delivering absolute trashing service. I dont discourage that either.

I'll just prefer the company themselves to deliver the punishments and rewards instead. This solves the awkwardness and pressure of tipping them from the patrons.
 
Two Words said:
How do people not think it is insulting that people need to be tipped to do a good job? I tip as well, but only because it is a shitty social convention that is easier for me to follow than fight. I agree it sucks that waiters are paid shit. It sucks how their job is somehow treated differently. I don't tip them because their work deserved that particular amount of money or because I think it is necessary to ensure they do their job well. I tip because their employers pay them shit and expect me to be generous. It is nothing more than preying on my sympathy.



The real answer is that waiters wouldn't make as much as they make on tips and food wouldn't go as high as you're arguing.
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So you want to give a blanket pay cut to an entire industry of people who already make less than 30k a year typically?

Again, you aren't tipping to make up for employers "paying them shit"
You are tipping because you give the server the service fee directly instead of it being included in your bill the way it is in other countries.
 
OP is a bad person who likely has a bad haircut. I tip about 25% just to make sure my Barber goes that extra step to make me look good. You should tip your barber for your own benefit.
 
ArtHands said:
Well exactly. Why the double standards? These people doesnt have much income too, and they didnt get tips. By the same logic, the people who doesnt tip these people are saying "fuck you services" as well and should feel ashame

"If you dont tip the McDonald cashier, then you are asking them to fuck your food up by spitting into your fries"
Click to expand...

You don't tip a Mcdonalds cashier because it's not a tip-based job, they get paid 5 dollars an hour more than servers do. They also don't really wait on you. Their wage is incorporated into the price of your food. They get paid less than servers typically make, because serving is a harder job that requires more skill than ringing people out at Mcdonalds.

This really isn't so hard you guys.
 
I notice a lot of people from other countries saying it's a hassle, and that they wouldn't want to factor in spending more money than their food cost.

This is not a problem if you have been in the US for any extended period of time. You know when you get to a restaurant that you're going to be tipping for the service, it doesn't come out of nowhere.

I feel like I can't state this enough here, when you tip you ARE NOT just giving people extra pity money because they don't make enough money. Their wage is designed around tipping, as is the entire business model of the restaurant. You are paying the server directly for their service, rather than being charged more in the bill so that the employers can then give the money to the server.

It is a FLEXIBLE SERVICE FEE that is not included in the bill.

You can think this is stupid all you want, but deciding not to tip while still engaging in tipping based services as some misguided effort to abolish tips is unbelievably ignorant.
 
Laughing Banana said:
So? If both systems are the same in the end that the customers end up paying the same amount (which basically make the whole 'the prices are going to be cheaper' argument moot then), why rely on a system that basically depends on will I will I not and shaming to actually ensure the workers make good money? Why not use the system that is more certain, like you know, the one that the rest of the world is using?
Click to expand...


I think it's usually not "will I will I not" shaming unless you're inexperienced in going to restaurants in the US. Simply always factor in a tip, if you wan't to make it easy on yourself, settle on 15 or 20 percent. Most people in the US accept and are used to this method, and it isn't relying on shaming, this is just how it works, and servers do make money. There are pros and cons to both systems, but they both have their merits.

As for why not use the same system as the rest of the world? I'm honestly not sure, but tipping based wages are great, and go off without a hitch for the most part. Otherwise, the ENTIRE service industry in a country of hundreds of millions wouldn't be doing it that way.

The only problem I ever see with tipping based wages is threads like this, where people mistakenly think that tipping is pity money that you give to poor people because their employers are big meanies who don't pay them enough.

Also, a "prices are cheaper because of tipping" argument is stupid, and whoever says that is uninformed. That's not the point of tipping. The point is to allow the customer to have some wiggle room on the service fee based on how they feel the service was. This encourages improvement, and also let's a server know if they've adequately responded to a customers needs. It also helps the entire staff work together smoothly by encouraging team work, as most servers either split their tips or have to give a percentage of them to the table bussers at the end of the night. There are a few different models in the industry, but the one constant is: you pay for your meal and the majority of that goes straight to the restaurant, then you pay the service fee to your server (a tip). This fee is flexible instead of a fixed rate attached to the bill.
 
You're already paying out the nose, what's another 10?

I actually support tipping barbers more than servers. If server wages weren't so fucked, anyways. They're actually directly providing you a service. Servers just bring you things and nag, the chefs are the ones who deserve tips.
 
Never tipped my barber ever and I think tipping as a whole is ridiculous and shouldn't exist, it shouldn't have to rely on the customer to either a) reward the staff for excellent service (because it should be the norm anyways) and b) supplement the staff wages because the company doesn't pay its staff a reasonable wage.

Why are some professions exempt from expected tipping and others are not? Would you tip a retail sales person if they gave you excellent service?
 
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