SkullHydra
Member
His Neutral B increases the damage and knock back of his next Smash Attack. If you connect with that attack, then it auto recharges you. It's so much better than his previous Neutral B.
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Project M 3.0 |OT| More Smash Bros. is a good thing
- Thread starter sinxtanx
- Start date
You could check out the character overviews on the site if you are interested, they do a pretty good job of acclimating you to any significant changes.
Lucas's Neutral B is "Offense Up" which boosts the power of your next smash attack. If you land a clean hit it doesn't lose it's charge. Compared directly to his old move, I've found it to be a great new addition to his toolkit.
viewtiful_dru
Member
RESPECT THE GALAXY KNUCKLES.
It's mentioned in his change list as being removed.
Yeah, I saw, but why?
Holy Order Sol
Member
As in SSB Kirby? That'd be weird as that's the one Kirby that was actually any good.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Ah, typo on my part. I meant Melee Kirby.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Wolf is just... weird. Making him a fast character closer to Fox and Falco is an odd choice.
Honestly, it sounds like you guys aren't 'good' at smash. Perhaps the balancing and changes just aren't suitable for you guys?
I'm not sure what you don't understand about Lucas' neutral B. It's fairly easy to piece together.
His forward B is pure deliciousness now, though.
Barrow Roll
Member
If I were to guess, probably so that you have to commit more to the move. Crouching made it too easy to bail out if you fucked up and used it at an inopportune moment. Now you need to be a little wiser and accept the consequences of poorly using the move.
But crouching carried the momentum and you did no damage. It was a mind game rather than an abort. Plus, he could do it in Wario Land games.
Barrow Roll
Member
Couldn't you do like a crouch turn around in previous versions? Seems like a pretty easy bail out. Maybe they thought the crouch just made the move too versatile?
Thank you very much! Now I hope I learn a little watching this xD
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Wow, this thread is not responding well to criticism.
None of us is beating Mango anytime soon but sorry, we are good at the game and play at a high level.
Theres also no reason to know wtf Lucas neutral B does without looking it up.
The new Wario is so awesome. His shoulder charge is so satisfying. The coins that fly out when you grab and punch the enemy is just so boss
Man, they really did an excellent job on the new moves on the characters. They look splendid and don't feel amateurish. Same with the models they used for characters like mewtwo and roy. I think they could seriously pass as official models
But why don't my pokeymans have a final smash?!?!
Man, they really did an excellent job on the new moves on the characters. They look splendid and don't feel amateurish. Same with the models they used for characters like mewtwo and roy. I think they could seriously pass as official models
But why don't my pokeymans have a final smash?!?!
Why wouldn't you look at what the mod does before playing it?
Barrow Roll
Member
I can't speak for everyone else, but at the very least I tried to be polite about asking you to be more specific with your criticism.
As for the bolded, checking the character overview pages on the Project M website will help you get acclimated to the changes. Even without them though, you'd figure it out the same way you would if it were included in Brawl by default, by playing the game and testing moves and learning what they do. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that you could use training mode to mess around and get familiar with a character's moveset?
Good example. Also Marth's down+B or Peach's neutral B.
What about Jiggs down b?
SkullHydra
Member
It literally modifies what each Smash Attack looks like, making them larger with extra Psi-powers. It also disappears if you miss with a Smash Attack.
I like Project M and I'd agree that a lot of these changes are obtuse. Unlike in pretty much every other Smash Bros game where you can reasonably guess what a character's moves must do based on their animation, Lucas's neutral B just makes him glow a bit and then affects otherwise unrelated moves. Other moves cause some kind of logical visual feedback to teach you what's going on - PSI Magnet makes an obvious shield, PK Flash creates a projectile, etc. I have a similar issue with Lucario's new aura system and Kirby's final cutter having horizontal input.
They're fun once you learn it but it goes against a lot of the friendliness of Smash to begin with, which seemed to be the intent at one point.
While I do agree some posters in this thread aren't taking most criticism well, the burden is on you to find out either through trying the move out or reading it up. When you play a new character, it isn't expected that you know every move, so yea, you have to find out what it does.
Other people have explained it, it powers up Smash attacks and will stop being in effect if you miss a Smash attack.
I could say that about a lot of mechanics and even moves in the previous games, just look it up.
Barrow Roll
Member
I've always felt that Smash's greatest strength was being easy to pick up and play, but hard to master and I feel that Project M carries this idea forward, but adding even more to master, which is great. If Brawl had shipped exactly like Project M, would you still feel this way? And regarding Kirby's horizontal final cutter, it's no different than many other established Smash moves with multiple functions with different inputs. Pikachu's Quick Attack can move twice, but you wouldn't know that unless you figured it out. Mario and Luigi can gain vertical height with their tornado attacks by mashing B. Or what about the myriad of directional recoveries and up+Bs? Angling Fox's Up-B straight forward is exactly the same input as Kirby's horizontal final cutter. In fact it's even more complex as it let's you fire in any direction, which is true for a lot of recoveries (Falco, Wolf, Sheik, Zelda, Mewtwo, Pikachu, Lucario). Let's not even get started on probably everyone having no idea how to recover with Ness in Smash 64 unless they saw the CPU do it or had someone tell them.
Lucario is a bit of an oddity, I'll give you that, but his old aura system was also unlike anything we'd ever seen in Smash before. There wasn't even a visual indicator that you were doing more damage as your percentage rose, at least Project M gives you glowing hands to let you know something's up.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Sure, but like I said a few times, they were quick first impressions which I said I couldn't elaborate in depth on ... But still people jumped on me because being confused as to what a move does is not allowed, apparently.
We got together at lunch, played about 8 games and those were the first thoughts we had.
Don't be surprised if people jump on you for having an opinion that's misinformed when it's something you could have looked up.
I do admit Lucario's new mechanics are really obtuse though, it's really different.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
0% of my post was misinformed.
I didn't know what the move did, and the way its animated it does NOT look like a powerup move. Thats something they should address.
Saying that the normals were changed "seemingly at random" is not misinformation because Lucas has an excellent ground game so I saw no reason to change it other that because the mods designer wanted to. Obviously I knew they werent done at random, hence me using the word "seemingly"
My friends thoughts were also not misinformed, thats how they felt while playing, which is fair because theyre experienced players.
theprodigy
Member
.....ok dude
better than his air game, sure, but that's not really a ringing endorsement
It was more than that. You were canceling your charge into a crouch from which you could do whatever you wanted; jump away, different attack, etc.
Fair enough.
Also doesn't Lucas' neutral B make his hands glow? And there's also an audio cue when you do one of his smash attacks?
TDLink
Member
I don't understand why you guys feel the need to dogpile on Raging Spaniard for honest criticism. Back when I first tried Project M I was confused at first to what Lucas' B ability did too. In fact, I originally wrote him off as a shitty character in this mod because I didn't understand it, but now he's one of my favourites. It shouldn't be expected of anyone to go to some website or forum to find out what something does. Yeah through trial and error you will figure it out eventually, but he said he only played 8 matches. If the guy just tried the mod and is posting his first impressions why do people need to shit on him for it?
Project M is fun, and good, but it's not perfect at all. And it definitely could use some criticism. Blind and mindless adoration of it, with a dogpile for any criticism, is completely stupid and I hate to see that kind of thing here of all places.
Project M is fun, and good, but it's not perfect at all. And it definitely could use some criticism. Blind and mindless adoration of it, with a dogpile for any criticism, is completely stupid and I hate to see that kind of thing here of all places.
Barrow Roll
Member
Is it dogpiling if a lot people simply disagree with his criticism? Because that's all I see here.
MannyToons
Member
Goddamn. I've officially been playing this too much. My right wrist is completely cramped, ha.
lol I got that too yesterday.
TDLink
Member
You can't really "disagree" with that kind of criticism. His criticism was that he couldn't tell what Lucas' B Special does and as a result he feels Lucas is weaker. The majority of the responses are incredibly hostile and many tell him he should have referred to the Internet and/or researched the changes the mod made, in depth, before playing it. I don't think that's a reasonable request at all and somewhat makes the criticism even more valid.
Now see, I didn't even know this. Haha. That's pretty neat but yeah...never would have figured that out.
Barrow Roll
Member
It's one thing to not understand the full extent of Lucas' neutral B after a few matches. It's another to say:
which is something that could be said for plenty of moves in Melee and Brawl, with examples being given (Jigglypuff's down+B, Fire Emblem bros' down+B, Peach neutral B). I could even list more for you if you'd like. I can absolutely disagree with that criticism, or at the very least think he should give it a bit more time.
theprodigy
Member
it made no sense because the old move was absolutely worthless
TDLink
Member
Yeah, and I think criticism is deserved for those moves too. You even mentioned it yourself a few posts ago, one of the great things about Smash is how intuitive it all is and how obvious the moves are. Some moves, both created by Sakurai in the official Smash games as well as the mod team on Project M, defy this principle and I don't think it is wrong or unjustified to criticize those.
I will say though the Fire Emblem counter ones are a bit more apparent and easy to figure out because it's a defensive stance, implying that it is to be used when you're about to get hit. But I do consider Jigglypuff's Rest to absolutely be in the same boat as Lucas' Neutral B in P:M as there is no real visual indicator as to what you are supposed to do with it. With Lucas' particularly you have to use separate moves as it powers them up. It's great once you know about it, but not immediately apparent at all. There's nothing wrong with calling that out.
He was talking about Lucas' Brawl ground game, not his old B Special.
For the record I love the new Lucas, much much more than the Brawl Lucas, I just definitely agree that his core new mechanic (Offense Up) is not something you instantly know how to use nor is it easy to discern its use without extensive play or someone telling you.
Well, if there was one thing Brawl showed us, it's that no one ever reads the manual. Can't believe how many people didn't know you could angle Samus FS when it was stated right there.
I understand where he comes from, but at least reading Lucas character page would have given him a pretty good idea of the changes.