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Project M 3.0 |OT| More Smash Bros. is a good thing

T

The Lamp

Member
Got to try this out tonight with friends. It's gatdam fantastic. Especially with friends. And turbo mode is so fun. My gosh. Thank you for fixing Brawl!!
 
V

viewtiful_dru

Member
Barrow Roll said:
It's one thing to not understand the full extent of Lucas' neutral B after a few matches. It's another to say:

which is something that could be said for plenty of moves in Melee and Brawl, with examples being given (Jigglypuff's down+B, Fire Emblem bros' down+B, Peach neutral B). I could even list more for you if you'd like. I can absolutely disagree with that criticism, or at the very least think he should give it a bit more time.
Click to expand...

to expound on that, you could read the original game's instruction manual (remember those!?) to find out what the moves did too:

iSsoRnX8LcCK9.png


so yes I too think you should look up something if you don't know what it does.
 
DanteFox

DanteFox

Member
TDLink said:
I don't understand why you guys feel the need to dogpile on Raging Spaniard for honest criticism. Back when I first tried Project M I was confused at first to what Lucas' B ability did too. In fact, I originally wrote him off as a shitty character in this mod because I didn't understand it, but now he's one of my favourites. It shouldn't be expected of anyone to go to some website or forum to find out what something does. Yeah through trial and error you will figure it out eventually, but he said he only played 8 matches. If the guy just tried the mod and is posting his first impressions why do people need to shit on him for it?

Project M is fun, and good, but it's not perfect at all. And it definitely could use some criticism. Blind and mindless adoration of it, with a dogpile for any criticism, is completely stupid and I hate to see that kind of thing here of all places.
Click to expand...

The devs for Project M get lots of feedback from lots of really experienced, borderline obsessive players over on Smashboards so his criticism which basically amounted to "I don't know what this move does but I don't like it" isn't helpful or insightful in any way.
 
R

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Barrow Roll said:
It's one thing to not understand the full extent of Lucas' neutral B after a few matches. It's another to say:

which is something that could be said for plenty of moves in Melee and Brawl, with examples being given (Jigglypuff's down+B, Fire Emblem bros' down+B, Peach neutral B). I could even list more for you if you'd like. I can absolutely disagree with that criticism, or at the very least think he should give it a bit more time.
Click to expand...

Disagree, for instance:

-Fire Emblem chars adopt a defensive stance, so it reads as a counter.

-Jigglypuff does two things, he falls asleep which at first gives the impression of being a troll move, but the glow is a hint that makes you want to try to hit somebody with it.

-Peach is clearly trying to protect herself, the player understand this and reads as a shield move.

Lucas' new move fails to read for a couple of reasons:

-He performs the same animation as his old neutral B ... meaning that the player expects something similar to happen. The animation is made so that it looks like something comes out of him, so when it doesnt, its confusing (at least Jiggly falls asleep, giving a sense of risk vs reward)

-For a powerup move to really read, the character must visually change in a very notorious way. I think somebody mentions his hands glow, but thats not enough. For instance, take SF III, when Makoto does her powerup super, she TURNS RED which instantly lets the players know that theyre somehow roided up.

Ive been playing fighting games all my life, 20 plus years, and I never had to look up a move in order to learn what it does. For a fighting game, its primordial for the user to understand the move upon first seeing it.

We are going to continue playing the mod, and my opinions will evolve, but the first, consensus opinion among our group was that Brawl is still better. It doesnt mean its the truth, but a game that plays slower is not necessarily worse or better. I think its healthier for this project to be seen as a fan sequel to Brawl rather than a "fix"
 
R

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
DanteFox said:
The devs for Project M get lots of feedback from lots of really experienced, borderline obsessive players over on Smashboards so his criticism which basically amounted to "I don't know what this move does but I don't like it" isn't helpful or insightful in any way.
Click to expand...

Excuse me but, so what? It was my first impression and I shouldnt have to defend it. It wasnt a review, it was a comment on a game forum, no need to be so defensive about this stuff.
 
DanteFox

DanteFox

Member
Raging Spaniard said:
Excuse me but, so what? It was my first impression and I shouldnt have to defend it. It wasnt a review, it was a comment on a game forum, no need to be so defensive about this stuff.
Click to expand...

You're the one being defensive. You posted an uninformed opinion and got called out, yet feel the need to stick to your guns.

Brawl sucks by the way.
 
M

Miker

Member
So it's agreed that Level 9 CPUs are absolutely brutal if you're only a middling player? Because that's certainly my experience - especially with CPU Kirby, of all characters.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
TDLink said:
He was talking about Lucas' Brawl ground game, not his old B Special.
Click to expand...

oh really?

TDLink said:
You can't really "disagree" with that kind of criticism. His criticism was that he couldn't tell what Lucas' B Special does and as a result he feels Lucas is weaker. The majority of the responses are incredibly hostile and many tell him he should have referred to the Internet and/or researched the changes the mod made, in depth, before playing it. I don't think that's a reasonable request at all and somewhat makes the criticism even more valid.
Click to expand...
 
C

Chavelo

Member
Less bitching, more playing.

Which, I can't at the moment. :(

Has anyone found a way to get the sound crackle and popping fixed on Dolphin M? I think I got a good enough rig to run the game (third-gen i5, 8gb RAM, ATI 7850). Tried to set the Framelock to audio, and tried all the different DSPs. No dice. Game runs great, just the sound sucks. Even Brawl works fine with both audio and video.
 
R

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
DanteFox said:
You're the one being defensive. You posted an uninformed opinion and got called out, yet feel the need to stick to your guns.

Brawl sucks by the way.
Click to expand...

Im backing my opinions and impressions with factual information and analysis, fomenting discussion, even.

Not once have I said the new move is a bad idea, I think its a GOOD change, actually? I wish the game would convey that information better.

My"opinion" that I had no idea what the move did is not wrong, because I didnt and the game does a poor job of it. Everybody on the internet treats this mod as something better than an official Nintendo release, so I judge it as such.

theprodigy said:
oh really?
Click to expand...

I was talking about both, actually. I dont think hes weaker, just very different which .. well, I liked how he played in Brawl, so I saw no need for changing much.
 
G

Gazoinks

Member
Miker said:
So it's agreed that Level 9 CPUs are absolutely brutal if you're only a middling player? Because that's certainly my experience - especially with CPU Kirby, of all characters.
Click to expand...

Mostly, yeah! Pretty nice, because the old Lv. 9s were still pretty weak. Ganondorf AI is still a wimp though. :p

They seem to have trouble on some of the new melee stages, though. Especially Fourside.
 
C

Cody_D165

Banned
Guys.

Turbo Mode + Tiny Mode + Heavy Mode + Fast Mode = ACTION FIGURE BATTLING

it's hilarious, holy shit my sides hurt from laughing.
 
A

Azure J

Member
Kokonoe said:
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL at Mewtwo's Final Smash.

Well deserved.
Click to expand...

This was one of the best moments in the short experimental set I played with my brother yesterday.

Me (after getting a Smash Ball): Oh, guess who has a final smash to try out?
Him: Watch it just be Lucario's Shinku Hadoken again
Me: Yeah, gotta reuse dem assets correctly--

*Mewtwo goes through the motions*

Both of us: Aw shit, LANDMASTER confirmed

*Mewtwo actually uses the final smash*

Both of us: YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
S

Starfish Hero

Member
Raging Spaniard said:
Lucas' new move fails to read for a couple of reasons:

-He performs the same animation as his old neutral B ... meaning that the player expects something similar to happen. The animation is made so that it looks like something comes out of him, so when it doesnt, its confusing (at least Jiggly falls asleep, giving a sense of risk vs reward)

-For a powerup move to really read, the character must visually change in a very notorious way. I think somebody mentions his hands glow, but thats not enough. For instance, take SF III, when Makoto does her powerup super, she TURNS RED which instantly lets the players know that theyre somehow roided up.
Click to expand...

I think this is a weak criticism. First you can say that you expect something similar to his old B to happen because it's the same animation, but it is immediately obvious it is something else when a giant ice explosion doesn't happen. After the animation is complete, you would have to be pretty daft not to tell some kind of change happened to Lucas. He isn't flickering red or whatever, but the flashing of his hands is more than noticeable and starts in the original animation. I only been playing fighters for 10 years and I immediately could tell it was some kind of power up.
 
R

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Starfish Hero said:
I think this is a weak criticism. First you can say that you expect something similar to his old B to happen because it's the same animation, but it is immediately obvious it is something else when a giant ice explosion doesn't happen. After the animation is complete, you would have to be pretty daft not to tell some kind of change happened to Lucas. He isn't flickering red or whatever, but the flashing of his hands is more than noticeable and starts in the original animation. I only been playing fighters for 10 years and I immediately could tell it was some kind of power up.
Click to expand...

If I was playing SP or a 1on1 maybe I would have, but in a 4 player MP stock match? No chance.

Glad you figured it out right away, but I couldnt tell right away and nobody else in my group either.
 
bigDdestruction

bigDdestruction

Member
Anybody check out Roy's final smash? The animation is rather strange and could use some work. I tried it out against my friend who was playing donkey kong. I made contact with DK but his character model glided out of the final smash and off the edge and roy still continued the final smash animations as if DK was in it. It was hella funny. But other than that, loving this new Project M. Mario is friggin amazing
 
W

Warhol

Neo Member
This mod goes against everything I like about casual Smash.

But it's amusing to play around with new characters and costumes even if they changed the gameplay back to the dark ages.
 
B

Barrow Roll

Member
Starfish Hero said:
I think this is a weak criticism. First you can say that you expect something similar to his old B to happen because it's the same animation, but it is immediately obvious it is something else when a giant ice explosion doesn't happen. After the animation is complete, you would have to be pretty daft not to tell some kind of change happened to Lucas. He isn't flickering red or whatever, but the flashing of his hands is more than noticeable and starts in the original animation. I only been playing fighters for 10 years and I immediately could tell it was some kind of power up.
Click to expand...
Yeah, basically agree with this.

Raging Spaniard said:
We are going to continue playing the mod, and my opinions will evolve, but the first, consensus opinion among our group was that Brawl is still better. It doesnt mean its the truth, but a game that plays slower is not necessarily worse or better. I think its healthier for this project to be seen as a fan sequel to Brawl rather than a "fix"
Click to expand...
Brawl isn't a poor Smash game simply because it's slower, it's a combination of almost every other change in the mechanics. Extremely low hitstun and shieldstun, auto ledge snapping, overpowered recoveries, removal of advanced movement techniques, random tripping, all of this and more contributed to making a game that basically punished the player for going on the offensive. Have you watched high level Brawl matches? Players aren't camping and playing defensively just to be boring, they just understand that the mechanics of the game make it the most effective way to win. For a lot of people, especially veteran Melee players, myself included, that shit's boring. Project M is the sequel I wanted Brawl to be ever since I watched the first trailer during E3 06. You're more than welcome to prefer Brawl, but for the rest of us, Project M is a return to form.

Warhol said:
This mod goes against everything I like about casual Smash.

But it's amusing to play around with new characters and costumes even if they changed the gameplay back to the dark ages.
Click to expand...
Did you not enjoy playing Melee casually?
 
D

Dreavus

Member
Warhol said:
This mod goes against everything I like about casual Smash.
Click to expand...

You mean the additional characters, the new costumes for nothing other than the cool factor, and a new game mode specifically designed to be just for fun and not competitive in the slightest?

But it's amusing to play around with new characters and costumes even if they changed the gameplay back to the dark ages.
Click to expand...

You are speaking as if Brawl's tripping-ridden gameplay was revolutionary for the series.

It wasn't.
 
D

dragonlife

Member
The passive aggressive comments in here are pathetic, especially because Raging Spaniard's initial comment was inoffensive and he actually said he and his coworkers didn't understand some of the moves as they played.

"Maybe you're just bad?"

"Well, maybe if you had looked up the changes..."

"Well, maybe if you told us--even though we ALL probably do the same shit for different games in their threads--what was ACTUALLY weird/off BASED ON YOUR SHORT, FIRST-HAND IMPRESSIONS, we wouldn't be gangbanging you with our implied better-than-you attitudes."

The only reason he stood out was because he's not performing sweet, sloppy fellatio on the mod (yet), like this guy:

DanteFox said:
You're the one being defensive. You posted an uninformed opinion and got called out, yet feel the need to stick to your guns.

Brawl sucks by the way.
Click to expand...
Did you swallow, too, bro? Maybe this guy can help you feast on Brawl's rotting, sucky corpse:

Not said:
Let's see your fighting game bro
Click to expand...
Come on. What is that.

DanteFox said:
Brawl sucks by the way.
Click to expand...
Brawl doesn't suck, by the way.

Congrats, we both contributed nothing with that. Feel good? Oh, I guess I'm being passive aggressive now.

EmCeeGramr said:
Wolf is just... weird. Making him a fast character closer to Fox and Falco is an odd choice.
Click to expand...
You clearly don't understand the game God has bestowed upon you, peasant.
 
W

Whiskeymatt

Member
So I'm not missing Snake's Nikita at all so far and actually sort of kinda really love the tranq gun. Tranq to throw to previously set up down smash is both hilarious and effective.
 
W

Warhol

Neo Member
Dreavus said:
You mean the additional characters, the new costumes for nothing other than the cool factor, and a new game mode specifically designed to be just for fun and not competitive in the slightest?
Click to expand...

You forgot the entire point of the mod, which is drastically changing every facet of the gameplay to be more like Melee and as a secondary goal, to make it more like competitive Smash.

I roll my eyes every-time someone mentions tripping in Brawl, pretending like it happened every 5 seconds.. It happened once every 2-3 matches in my case. It was built to punish people trying to abuse movement glitches in the game and judging by the competitive scene's loathing hate for it, it did its job well.

The people I find who complain about it are the same people who play with final destination/metaknight/no items.

I normally wouldn't care that mods like this are so popular....but Sakurai has taken notice to the whining of the fans. He's on record saying that the new Wii U smash will have faster gameplay more like Melee. Wavedashing around isn't my cup of tea but the hardcore community has spoken I guess.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
Warhol said:
You forgot the entire point of the mod, which is drastically changing every facet of the gameplay to be more like Melee and as a secondary goal, to make it more like competitive Smash.

I roll my eyes every-time someone mentions tripping in Brawl, pretending like it happened every 5 seconds.. It happened once every 2-3 matches in my case. It was built to punish people trying to abuse movement glitches in the game and judging by the competitive scene's loathing hate for it, it did its job well.

The people I find who complain about it are the same people who play with final destination/metaknight/no items.
Click to expand...

....LOL

I really do find it hilarious how Melee Fox generally hates FD and yet the meme revolves around no items, Fox only, FD though

and most importantly, does people playing a game competitively negatively impact your experience? tripping has cost people TOURNAMENTS before, you know (and there are no more movement glitches, they took them out obviously)
 
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