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Project M 3.0 |OT| More Smash Bros. is a good thing

J

Jaeger

Member
DrROBschiz said:
LOL

The Brawl/Melee debate is dumb and hating on the mod is just as dumb

EVERYONE should be celebrating the mods as they add some amazing work and content to a game that will not get any form of updates of DLC

This is unprecedented in the Console pace (yeah yeah PC guys been doing it forever) and best of all takes nothing away from the originals.

Most of the debate seems to be misplaced around the idea that one way of play is better than the other when in reality we should all be celebrating all the options that these awesome fan mods have given us

If there is a single strength that I love smash for its that there are so many different ways to play and enjoy it

Quit being a hater on both sides of the coin. Even if you prefer the brawl mechanics you cant help but smile at all the creativity on display here.
Click to expand...

yi3e.jpg
 
S

SkullHydra

Member
Is there a way to get out of Ness' Side B? Every time I trap my brother in it (Which is often), he stays in for so long that it allows me to get in a free Smash attack. I still do about 50% damage even though the pillar of flame stop my Smash attack from knocking him back.
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
SkullHydra said:
Is there a way to get out of Ness' Side B? Every time I trap my brother in it (Which is often), he stays in for so long that it allows me to get in a free Smash attack. I still do about 50% damage even though the pillar of flame stop my Smash attack from knocking him back.
Click to expand...

I HATE that they have Ness's PK Fire activate on Shields

Feels broken and makes it so hard to beat my rival :p

That said I am able to beat him on occasion when i am at the top of my game but dayum does he smoke me good
 
J

Jaeger

Member
SkullHydra said:
Is there a way to get out of Ness' Side B? Every time I trap my brother in it (Which is often), he stays in for so long that it allows me to get in a free Smash attack. I still do about 50% damage even though the pillar of flame stop my Smash attack from knocking him back.
Click to expand...

Yea, I'm not a fan of it. I tend ot mash the shit out of my stick and/or mash shield to try make it out of that hell. My local rival abuses that ish often, although his Ness can't keep up with my Mewtwo space/grab games.
 
B

BeastM0de

Neo Member
Sails said:
If someone is going to defend it, defend it right. I played competitive Brawl for many years, going to around 50 tournaments from locals to nationals. Random tripping happens to you 0-3 times a match, with 1 or 2 being the normal. When you randomly trip, there are tons of invincibility frames associated with each roll, only leaving you vulnerable near the end. This can help, hinder, or do nothing for you. I'll start with the most common:

Nothing: Random tripping in a competitive environment generally does nothing. Why? It's important to know the competitive defensive play of Brawl. When you approach in competitive Brawl, the general reaction is to shield attacks in order to punish or run away. There is almost never an advantage to try and be offensive when someone is running towards you. Thus, if you approach and trip, chances are you won't be phased. You'll trip, instantly press a direction, and get up unscathed because you shouldn't have been near them in the first place. There's no reason to dash if you're close in Brawl, as running through someone has no benefits and is easily punished, walking is a much better option as smash attacks can be used out of it. The only way this turns in to a problem is if you do something expected with your roll (Rolling away from the opponent is grounds for being tech chased) or you don't get straight up. The number of frames to get punished by holding up after randomly tripping is extremely small, I can't even think of a time I was hit during it. You can also use a get-up attack out of tripping, but it's not very useful as it has much fewer invincibility frames and is typically unsafe on shield.

Helps: The next common. How can tripping help you? Again, the invincibility frames. Trying to run away from Snake's weapons? You may trip through them and go unscathed, especially with a well timed get-up. Trying to get away from an opponent that is up close? You may trip through their surprise attack/grab and roll away. Almost never will you be hit out of a trip during competitive play. When it happens, the attacking player never has chance to react to it because it's absolutely unexpected. Random tripping helps out far more times than when it...

Hinders: The rarest. I can't remember a single time in all of my tournaments and practice for years where I've been totally hindered by a trip. There may be times where I took a random laser for 2% or got tech chased and took maybe 15%, but they were few and it never lead to death. Beyond a few cases in tournament play where it has lead to death (Always by the attackers accident), it has almost never caused problems in any of the hundreds of Brawl matches I watched. The window to punish is too small and your options to get out of it are typically fast enough or safe enough to be perfectly fine in the overly-defensive play of competitive Brawl.

So if random tripping helps more than it hinders, and does nothing far more than it helps, this leaves us with what? Random tripping is really not that bad. It's silly and fun to joke about mid-match, it can make you frustrated that you lost whatever setup you were trying to do, but it never really makes or breaks anything. The only reason it doesn't belong in Smash is because it is a randomized function that takes away control from the player for a second, which is fundamentally flawed. Other than that, it's not so bad.

tl;dr Tripping generally does nothing and helps far more than it hinders due to the defensive play of competitive Brawl.
Click to expand...

wait...what?
You seem to think that the only negative is taking damage. I watched a tournament yesterday and twice the announcers said "unfortunate trip". Normally this happened when the attacking player knocked the other off of the stage. When he ran to get into position he tripped and the opposing player got back onto a stage. This very well could have resulted in a stock.

I personally don't care about tripping. Its kinda dumb, but its not that big of a deal. Im not super technical or competitive but I do like those aspects of melee. HOWEVER, your opinion that tripping is some super helpful mechanic is a bit absurd.

I havent got this mod yet, but it looks great. I'll be on it once finals are over. Any gaffers play online?
 
C

copelandmaster

Member
Dion Blaster said:
I really wish Project M just got rid of L-Canceling. It's such a pointless, tedious mechanic.
Click to expand...

Question, have you tried L-Cancelling with the Z button instead of using A+L/R? Having air attack+shield functionality in one button is pretty handy for L canceling, as it turns out. Believe me, I almost said fuck that shit too, until playing Project M showed me that I had probably been unintentionally doing it for years. Just work Z into your grab and air game instead of A, L, and R.

This method probably has a few downsides like making wave dashing harder, or possibly losing the ability to grab straight out of shield.
 
S

Shimesaba

Member
SkullHydra said:
Is there a way to get out of Ness' Side B? Every time I trap my brother in it (Which is often), he stays in for so long that it allows me to get in a free Smash attack. I still do about 50% damage even though the pillar of flame stop my Smash attack from knocking him back.
Click to expand...

Smash DI away from it and down. Multi-hit move -> several chances to SDI.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
copelandmaster said:
Question, have you tried L-Cancelling with the Z button instead of using A+L/R? Having air attack+shield functionality in one button is pretty handy for L canceling, as it turns out. Believe me, I almost said fuck that shit too, until playing Project M showed me that I had probably been unintentionally doing it for years. Just work Z into your grab and air game instead of A, L, and R.

This method probably has a few downsides like making wave dashing harder, or possibly losing the ability to grab straight out of shield.
Click to expand...

dunno about him, but personally its more about the current concept of it rather than ability to, you know, actually do it
 
T

tiggerkiddo

Member
So I have nearly everything setup but anytime I try to open up the gecko file, it doesn't detect the dpad at all so I can't configure anything at all on there...
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
Warhol said:
You forgot the entire point of the mod, which is drastically changing every facet of the gameplay to be more like Melee and as a secondary goal, to make it more like competitive Smash.

I roll my eyes every-time someone mentions tripping in Brawl, pretending like it happened every 5 seconds.. It happened once every 2-3 matches in my case. It was built to punish people trying to abuse movement glitches in the game and judging by the competitive scene's loathing hate for it, it did its job well.

The people I find who complain about it are the same people who play with final destination/metaknight/no items.

I normally wouldn't care that mods like this are so popular....but Sakurai has taken notice to the whining of the fans. He's on record saying that the new Wii U smash will have faster gameplay more like Melee. Wavedashing around isn't my cup of tea but the hardcore community has spoken I guess.
Click to expand...

Wow I'm sorry me playing the game differently causes you so much agony

what a mark
 
M

Mistle

Member
Anybody else getting a little bit of input lag with Project M? It's definitely not present on any of my other games/vanilla Brawl
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
I installed Project M, but when I go to the Stage Builder, Gecko OS isn't booting up. It's just showing normal Brawl. Help?
 
D

DedValve

Banned
I went to a friends house and he had a wii so I started playing Project M.

Good lord Ivysaur is so much fucking fun! I had no idea the pokemon where separated and have new moves!

I love how most of these pokemon have actual pokemon moves now.

On Ivysaur I counted gigadrain (grab), leech seed (how do I get this?), seed bomb (down special, vinewhip, razor leaf (soooo much better now) and solarbeam (fucking incredible).

How does solarbeam work btw? It seems to carry the charge after death, sometimes it'll self charge, what goes on there?

I'm so going to download this mod and pray my computer can run dolphin.
 
TDLink

TDLink

Member
DedValve said:
I went to a friends house and he had a wii so I started playing Project M.

Good lord Ivysaur is so much fucking fun! I had no idea the pokemon where separated and have new moves!

I love how most of these pokemon have actual pokemon moves now.

On Ivysaur I counted gigadrain (grab), leech seed (how do I get this?), seed bomb (down special, vinewhip, razor leaf (soooo much better now) and solarbeam (fucking incredible).

How does solarbeam work btw? It seems to carry the charge after death, sometimes it'll self charge, what goes on there?

I'm so going to download this mod and pray my computer can run dolphin.
Click to expand...

Solarbeam charges whenever you heal. You can heal via Synthesis (Neutral B when you don't have a Solarbeam ready), or hitting an opponent with Up Smash, Up Air, or Down Air.
 
D

DedValve

Banned
Ok so I managed to get dolphin and this game running on my mac but installing project M is a nightmare.

I get to the part where I have to load the game and I get the "no dvd" error.

I have no dvds, no sd cards, I got rid of that virtual drive thing that comes on a mac, I tried dolphin 3.5 and 4.0, my brawl is NTCS. I am completely out of options.

Anyone can help?
 
A

AlphaDragoon

Member
bigDdestruction said:
Anybody check out Roy's final smash? The animation is rather strange and could use some work. I tried it out against my friend who was playing donkey kong. I made contact with DK but his character model glided out of the final smash and off the edge and roy still continued the final smash animations as if DK was in it. It was hella funny. But other than that, loving this new Project M. Mario is friggin amazing
Click to expand...

Yeah, Roy's FS still seems a bit off in the animations, especially the last hit which I think should be brought down with more speed and force. Would have loved to see a supercharged version of this as the final hit:

Animation_Roy_Master_Lord.gif


But I give the guys working on this props for making the thing from scratch. Just add some voice clips to it, a little tweak on the animations and it's good to go.
 
S

Solid Samus

Banned
copelandmaster said:
Question, have you tried L-Cancelling with the Z button instead of using A+L/R? Having air attack+shield functionality in one button is pretty handy for L canceling, as it turns out. Believe me, I almost said fuck that shit too, until playing Project M showed me that I had probably been unintentionally doing it for years. Just work Z into your grab and air game instead of A, L, and R.

This method probably has a few downsides like making wave dashing harder, or possibly losing the ability to grab straight out of shield.
Click to expand...

So glad I'm not the only one who does this. Except I make 'Y' a grab button. Playing Snake back in 2.6 this way was just plain nasty. Air attack -> L-cancel -> Grab plays out damn near instantly and it inputs like this: 'Y' -> 'Y' -> 'Y'
 
S

Solid Samus

Banned
FSLink said:
Well L-Canceling was intentional for sure (reduced all lag in 64 and then they changed it to only half in Melee right?). I wouldn't mind it returning if they made a more obvious cue of it working like Project M does with a white flash....except maybe make it a bit more obvious. And give benefits to not L-Canceling, perhaps more damage/KO potential if you do a laggy version of an aerial?
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I think that one way Namco and Nintendo could help to make the next Smash unique and speed it up a bit would be to remove L-cancelling entirely and have auto ground cancels because it removes a barrier to entry without removing its benefit to gameplay and would openly encourage a more mobile and mixed up moveset.
 
K

Kokonoe

Banned
Is there any way to modify Project M so that:

Default Stock = 3
Default Hurting Team Mates Off
Default Percentages On (health)
 
C

copelandmaster

Member
Hey everybody, got another video to share. About 25~ seconds this time.

Link

I would really like to record longer matches, but:

A. free fraps caps at 30 seconds. $37 for full is LOL worthy
B. Afterburner is a cluster
1. nukes my performance
2. caps at 100fps for 2.3.1
3. 120fps in 3.0.0 beta is capped at 85% quality
C. space limitations in a RAMdisk configuration.

Enjoy!
 
Cuban Legend

Cuban Legend

Member
XtaLarge said:
I agree with this. I think that one way Namco and Nintendo could help to make the next Smash unique and speed it up a bit would be to remove L-cancelling entirely and have auto ground cancels because it removes a barrier to entry without removing its benefit to gameplay and would openly encourage a more mobile and mixed up moveset.
Click to expand...

Making smash "unique" by removing the execution barriers? The ones in Melee that enabled depth of play which are the key to Melee's decade of dedicated fans and longevity due to depth of play? Thats what Brawl got rid of, and I don't agree that to make smash "unique" is a solution if it means developing it with the same concepts in mind that were in Brawl's development.

to quote cmart (edited to match the issue of l-cancel):
It's essentially the difference between manual and auto l-canceling. If you wish to have a certain effect happen, you must actively input the cause. Giving the player a task and rewarding them for accomplishing it are not strange concepts. It feels good to l-cancel and reduce landing lag because of something you did, rather than the game doing it for you. Brawl didn't reward you for doing anything. Melee punished you for not paying attention to your positioning and momentum. You can argue that all players will learn to l-cancel, and nothing will change and so it should be automatic. I don't agree with either stance - I think there's some intrinsic value in there being execution barriers for a game - otherwise what's the point in practice? What's the reward for dedication? And if you do screw up, that's a sign that maybe you're not putting in enough effort, and an encouragement to get better.
 
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