JoshuaJSlone
Member
Introducing genetic material to an environment isn't creationism.
That's essentially Kirk in the first. EDIT: His faith being in himself, not religion.Angry Fork said:
PROMETHEUS UNMARKED SPOILER THREAD!
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You know, I kept waiting to get a good look at the room, but never really did. And here's another huge issue I had with the movie. They land, seemingly ina random spot. Stringer Swell says, "Let's go through that gate" a random scientist HAPPENS TO VISUALLY SPOT a giant alien mauseoleum, they turn right and land.
And then, for the rest of the movie, we have two or three sets - and not claustrophobic submarine sets, just two or three quite interesting but ultimately unexplored sets.
What a great movie. Didn't let me down at all, which I was worried about. The livejournal link that was posted seems to be close to spot on and makes the most sense as a whole on the theories about the movie. Not perfect but probably on the right track.
Had Scott said anything about a sequel? Or is the ambiguousness between this and Alien supposed to remain? Not that I'd completely mind that.
Had Scott said anything about a sequel? Or is the ambiguousness between this and Alien supposed to remain? Not that I'd completely mind that.
I'm just saying Lindelof tends to say whatever he thinks will please his audience, even if it makes no sense or contradicts some of his earlier statements. Maybe you're not familiar with the guy.
Of course he wasn't going to reply "sure, the movie is anti-science" to io9.
Angry Fork
Member
He doesn't seem to understand that it's one thing to have hope in something but it's another to do ridiculous things in the name of faith, without evidence. Who in the world would spend a trillion dollars to go to deep space based on cave paintings? It's so dumb there is no explanation.
My main beef (besides a scientist believing something is fact without evidence) is the movie shits on Darwinism for the sake of advancing creationist ideology, all based on a hunch from a christian protagonist. I know the movie is fiction and based in it's own universe, but there's no doubt this kind of stuff makes middle of the road people feel warm/fuzzy about their own half beliefs and makes atheists seem like 'dogmatic assholes' for not having that same faith and so on. This happened in Lost too, Locke is portrayed as the reasonable spiritual guy vs. Jack the asshole skeptic.
Humans being designed by a superior power.
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
Yeah the religious people in this movie REALLY convinced me with their salient points. Like saying "because I CHOOSE to believe" over and over again.
radioheadrule83
Banned
I was unnecessarily aggressive there, I'm sorry... I read the movie exactly as he says there without having read anything he or Scott had said in advance. I was not flipped into some anti-faith disgust mode just because one of the characters demonstrated it - I don't think she got much reward for her actions or her faith... And I think it would have been more unrealistic NOT to have characters with romanticised and faith shaped preconceptions about potential human creators..
I'll grant that the theatrical cut has either hindered the script or the script has some galling overlooked plot holes, but in the respect of the ideas it was conveying, I felt it was perfectly clear and I don't support the notion that anyone on the writing team was a cheerleader for people of faith. Faith couldn't save anyone in this story from enduring the nightmare on that planet.. survival instinct did that.
freenudemacusers
Member
People are reading a pro creationism slant to this movie? Wut? The movie makes faith a cosmic joke.
The girl with the cross survived, just sayin'. God is watching over her. David is his sexless decapitated angel.
radioheadrule83
Banned
What?!
It doesn't shit on Darwinism. One of the characters offers Darwin as a challenge to the idea that humans were created, but the movie doesn't for one minute suggest that the engineers came down from space and made us from spare ribs or something... In fact, one of the popular readings of the films introduction is that the engineer destroyed himself to seed the planet with his DNA. It's perfectly possible that all life we evolved from came from elements of his matter in the ocean. In that case, the engineers and Darwin co exist.
If you took some weird offence to the idea that the planet was seeded with life and saw that as an attack on Darwin, I think that's a problem with you and your beliefs, not the film itself. It made no effort whatsoever to challenge or insult Darwin.
Look at this trailer. Just look at it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQgnnsqysZE&feature=related
Now weep for what could have been.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQgnnsqysZE&feature=related
Now weep for what could have been.
Me and my lady saw it last night and we loved it. Yeah it wasn't perfect but i really enjoy the subject. Here is what I got from it:
I think the engineers look at the xenomorphs as a major threat to them and maybe the whole universe. In an attempt to get rid of them I think they tried to create a bio weapon using some of the xenomorphs dna and there own. What happened at the beginning, I took as, them testing it out to see what happens, but without the risk of harming their own kind. That's why they went to a remote planet. This is something Idras Elba even suggested early in the movie. Something to the effect of "They aren't dumb enough to test it on their own planet."
Maybe they came back to visit us once they realized that they created a new race. Kind of the way scientists monitor lab rats. The engineers could have been peaceful and when they realized that they created a new life form(us) they gave us the directions to seek them out? But maybe there was a rogue group of engineers that didnt like that idea, hence the only living angry engineer. He could have killed the others by sabotaging them. He was obviously on his way to kill us next. He showed signs of endearment toward David, slowly touching Davids face. It's almost like he was touched emotionally for a split second, then became filled with rage and knew he had to destroy us. Lab rats experimenting on lower forms of life?
Also, since I think they're using xenomorph DNA, it will always eventually reach the point of becoming one, regardless of the hosts they infect. The DNA has an ultimate goal of becoming a xenomorph. It may take several host to get there, but it will always get there. The black goo affects each individual differently. Regardless of the host it infects, its goal will always be a xenomorph. The DNA is very strong parasite with an ultimate goal in mind. Thats why the worm/squid things were both versions of the facehuggers.
I also think we will never fully understand things because we simply can't understand an alien race.
I love the story but the dialogue can be annoying. I was also expecting it to be slower paced like how ALIEN was, but in todays cinema i rarely see that anymore.
I think the engineers look at the xenomorphs as a major threat to them and maybe the whole universe. In an attempt to get rid of them I think they tried to create a bio weapon using some of the xenomorphs dna and there own. What happened at the beginning, I took as, them testing it out to see what happens, but without the risk of harming their own kind. That's why they went to a remote planet. This is something Idras Elba even suggested early in the movie. Something to the effect of "They aren't dumb enough to test it on their own planet."
Maybe they came back to visit us once they realized that they created a new race. Kind of the way scientists monitor lab rats. The engineers could have been peaceful and when they realized that they created a new life form(us) they gave us the directions to seek them out? But maybe there was a rogue group of engineers that didnt like that idea, hence the only living angry engineer. He could have killed the others by sabotaging them. He was obviously on his way to kill us next. He showed signs of endearment toward David, slowly touching Davids face. It's almost like he was touched emotionally for a split second, then became filled with rage and knew he had to destroy us. Lab rats experimenting on lower forms of life?
Also, since I think they're using xenomorph DNA, it will always eventually reach the point of becoming one, regardless of the hosts they infect. The DNA has an ultimate goal of becoming a xenomorph. It may take several host to get there, but it will always get there. The black goo affects each individual differently. Regardless of the host it infects, its goal will always be a xenomorph. The DNA is very strong parasite with an ultimate goal in mind. Thats why the worm/squid things were both versions of the facehuggers.
I also think we will never fully understand things because we simply can't understand an alien race.
I love the story but the dialogue can be annoying. I was also expecting it to be slower paced like how ALIEN was, but in todays cinema i rarely see that anymore.
I don't know about "pro-creationism" (I doubt proponents of ID would actually be fine with extraterrestrials being the intelligent creators of life on Earth), but I was annoyed by how easily Shaw shut her interlocutors up about Darwinism (and that was the end of that particular "debate" for the rest of the flick), and how transparent the movie was in its support of her spiritual stance in that scene.
And of course, it turns out Shaw was right, Darwinism be damned. How does that make sense? The movie never goes there at all, as if ignoring the very basics of evolution wasn't an issue. That makes me a bit uneasy considering how many people actually believe evolution is "just a theory".
If all the Engineers did was seed life on Earth, and said life evolved from there through natural selection, it sure is astonishing that one species ended up looking like them and "having the same DNA" (whatever the movie means by that). What were the odds?
Elvin Atombender
Member
I was sure that the ship crashing would happen during the first half because they wouldn't show the ending, would they?
...and then as the end was approaching I just sat there waiting for that ship to appear and crash.
No, but a lot of people did laugh when the bumbling duo died. Or when the geologist came back.
Chiggs
Gold Member
Probably the best thing I've seen on this forum in quite some time.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Charlie had sex with her before marriage, and he died shortly after, and even affected her with his sin!
and that gif is just incredible
lulz
radioheadrule83
Banned
It wasn't supportive in any way. In fact the whole reason for dissent in the ranks was probably to represent audience skepticism. Darwinism is not 'damned' by Shaws findings because she is fundamentally wrong about what they found and the earth being seeded for life is not incompatible with evolutionary principles. You are looking for reasons to be disgusted or offended.
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
That trailer is fucking fantastic. And shows every cool part of the movie. In fact, the shot of mutated mohawk man jumping down on a crew member is actually a longer shot than in the actual film. WTF
It really does show the entire fucking movie. Dammit, Fox.
Angry Fork
Member
There was dialogue here and there talking about who created us, why are we here etc. inane questions that are almost always given religious answers for the sake of appeasing people who can't cope with uncertainty.
Near the beginning of the film when they're making the presentation even then some guy challenges Shaw and asks on what basis does she have to discredit evolution and she goes 'because I choose to believe' or some similar drivel. It just makes me roll my eyes so hard.
There's definitely strands of evolutionary theory in the movie but there's no defense of it. There isn't a character that challenges Shaw and says 'why do you believe this without evidence' at least Jack did that on Lost but in this it's just taken as ipso facto that faith is a good thing (the person with the strongest faith survives the whole ordeal, and she makes 3 people kill themselves in order to stop a ship just based on her word, did Idris Elba even talk to Shaw for more than 5 minutes during the entire trip?).
Even the most logical person on the ship (Charlize Theron, albeit the biggest asshole) ended up dying. I like how she was painted as an evil witch for not wanting the rest of the ship to be contaminated by that guy (I won't go as far as to say she cared about the crew though, it's obvious she only cared about herself). But I have to ask why there wasn't some kind of de-contamination center on the ship? There's NO room at all where you can just keep the guy rather than light him on fire? What happens if someone gets sick in the ship, everyone is doomed? lol
I don't take it THAT seriously because the rest of the movie was alright enough, it's not like every scene talked about faith/evolution it just annoyed me when it did come up. I don't like this faith/science co-existence bs that people bring up to try to appeal to both sides. The creationism (at least in terms of adam and eve) debate is over, the christian/monotheist debate is over, it shouldn't appear as a legit alternative theory and having a scientist protagonist as a full blown christian is unacceptable in 2012 imo (or 2090 something whenever the movie took place).
This is another one of those times where the trailer is seen as jaw dropping amazing, like you're about to see something incredible, like the original Superman Returns teaser.
Then the movie comes out and all the best shots were in the trailer, and everything else falls flat compared to expectations. I was expecting something COMPLETELY different based on the trailers like this, much more horror-suspense oriented like Alien 1.
Net_Wrecker
Member
This makes me not want to watch movie trailers ever again. Not only because DAT HYPE, but because it shows damn near everything. Combined with the commercials that COMPLETELY spoil Shaw being pregnant with an alien, or the commercials THAT SHOW THE TENTACLES OF THE GIANT FACEHUGGER..............
luckily I saw the movie before those ran
:|
I've decided. Django Unchained is the last pre-release video I actively search for.
Yep, and I was one of them.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
radioheadrule83
Banned
She had an alien fetus inside her when she couldn't have babies... Immaculate conception? Jesus face hugger?
Please. I think I hate anti religious people and religious people equally on this board.
Modern narratives often still have parralells and similarities with ancient storytelling tropes and ideas. I could draw similar comparisons with star wars or lord of the rings and religious texts and parables.
Yup. I knew the moment I saw that trailer that I should never have watched it, that it likely spoiled 50% of the film. Little did I know how wrong I was. It spoiled 90% of it.
I think you're reading into stuff that isn't even there. The other crew members didn't charge into an argument with her over where humanity had its beginnings because they realized there was no reason. They respected her opinion, but that doesn't mean they subscribed to it. Furthermore, someone had mentioned that David made an expression as if what Shaw said was profound, but I didn't read it as that at all. To me, David only noticed that Shaw was spouting the same beliefs that her father had passed down to her. Much the same way that David acts out of the interests programmed into him at the will of his own "father", Weyland.
Also, as others have said, Shaw and David's survival at the end wasn't clearly because of faith. It seemed to be a muddled combination of their faith driving their will to survive, as well as the survival of the fittest mentality.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
That was party a joke, radioheadrule83, although I don't think it's any less stupid then all the other interpretations people desperately try to find with this mess of a movie.
Now that I've had some time to sleep on this...
I'm still borderline offended how stupid and lazily-written this film is.
What a sanctimonious attitude.
This movie is worth the sort of deconstruction some posters are providing, because nearly every part of the movie is a mess. Individual scenes, larger "bigger picture" ideas, the pacing and flow of these individual scenes into one another, the overall internal logic of the film, character arcs, and character choices...
Nearly one of these aspects of film have something wrong with them.
And yet you think the film is intelligent because it gives us questions. Questions that we can only speculate away on and answers that would almost all be equally valid because the movie gives us very little to work with.
I'm still borderline offended how stupid and lazily-written this film is.
What a sanctimonious attitude.
This movie is worth the sort of deconstruction some posters are providing, because nearly every part of the movie is a mess. Individual scenes, larger "bigger picture" ideas, the pacing and flow of these individual scenes into one another, the overall internal logic of the film, character arcs, and character choices...
Nearly one of these aspects of film have something wrong with them.
And yet you think the film is intelligent because it gives us questions. Questions that we can only speculate away on and answers that would almost all be equally valid because the movie gives us very little to work with.
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
The best thing to come out of Prometheus is that people finally admitting Lindelof is a hack and that LOST was a terribly written show. Hurray!
Elvin Atombender
Member
About Shaw being pregnant:
Is she really pregnant or does she just have a rapidly growing mutated sperm inside her?
I know it might sound silly but if she really is pregnant, wouldn't that mean that the black goo has changed her anatomy and that she is infected as well?
Is she really pregnant or does she just have a rapidly growing mutated sperm inside her?
I know it might sound silly but if she really is pregnant, wouldn't that mean that the black goo has changed her anatomy and that she is infected as well?
The marketing guys should get a raise. They played up the Alien angle and got people talking, , even though they spoiled the whole movie and mislead us about it. It's played up as scifi horror ala Alien but it is not tense and not scary. Not at all, really.
Angry Fork
Member
I used to be one that defended Lost constantly, and I still love the show in many ways, but I've been warming up to Erigu. I think we share similar lines of thought I just give the benefit of the doubt to Lost because of my intense attraction to the setting/mythology so much and how much fun I had watching it week to week. That's definitely starting to go away though and I'm realizing what kind of writer Lindelof is or at least how he views audiences. He seems like a nice guy but he's 2 for 2 now on writing for the majority (imo at least).
Exactly this, you described it perfectly. Now I'm slightly upset but oh well.
I agree. While I'm sure this movie was somewhat conceptually flawed to begin with, Lindelof couldn't have written a more cliched, nonsensical film if he had tried. He brought his worst traits from Lost with him.
The marketing guys made a better film than Ridley/Lindelof and co. did. Scenes actually looked more tense and properly built-up in the trailer than they did within the actual film.
This.
Just for the record, the movie is chock full of cool ideas, amazing visuals, a cast to die for and some of the best audio design I have ever heard (outside of the miserably overwrought and unsuitable score elements).
But it is broken as shit. If you can't see that, and this is just the objective stuff, not the subjective, then you're delusional. ALL of the problems are right there in the script. ALL of them. Sure, Ridley is responsible for putting those elements on the screen - but they fail as written. If anything, the execution probably improved them.
LowParry
Member
I don't recall anything the movie as to being tense. Unless you're one of them types of folks who easily scare, there are some small jumpy parts but overall, never a tense moment in that movie. More curious than anything.
Which brings up something with the Engineer that just happened to find Shaw. How the hell did he know where to look?
Uncle Rupee
Banned
The pod was 1m30secs away by foot.
I think it's clear that we completely disagree about that, at this point! ^_^;
I don't even know why you're talking about the big guys' "recent" change of heart, here. She was right about mankind having originated from the Engineers, and that's what matters, here.
See above. As it is, they created us in their image. And I'm not sure how you'd get that through natural selection.
But that's never addressed. "Pre-humans"? What's that? They might just as well have never existed, in the world of the movie. The idea certainly doesn't seem to bother our main couple of scientists, anyway.
There was a reason for arguing (there's a fuckton of evidence for evolution), and they had no reason to respect her opinion (she didn't present anything to back it up).
Not that I got the impression they respected her opinion, far from it, in fact ("bullshit", laughter, etc)...
I think it's both. He seems to find her intriguing.
Let me clarify my statement. They respected her right to believe what she wanted to believe, even if they thought her belief was full of shit. They were getting paid to check out the moon, and her religious beliefs shouldn't have had any effect on what they were going to do. There was no point to argue.
He steals her dreams. She is ABSOLUTELY his best link to humanity. Again, David is the best character in the movie, by far, which is ironic because he is a straight up robot with no confusion about his mortality.
I'm referring to the original Alien. It's a very tense movie. You don't think so?
Nameless
Member
Though a little shaky in places Prometheus was still on pace to be a classic film, I thought, all the way up to the moment where that lone Engineer awoke from his mufti-millennium slumber and contact was finally made, via David. This was the decisive moment... for the characters, for the broader Alien-Universe/Mythology and for the narrative of the film. God damn, this was it. Humanity is standing face to face with their Creator; our search for the existential truths which gave rise to religion & compelled us to explore the stars in the first place is finally over and.....we get another mindless hulking monster seen countless times in countless movies. When David told Shaw "He's coming for you" I rolled my eyes so hard I concussed myself.
I still think Prometheus succeeded overall but what could have, and probably should have been a legitimately great film devolved into just a good sci-fi flick in second half of the third act. I'd definitely be interested in hearing what the writers were trying to accomplish. You tell a unique and in many ways unconventional story for 100 minutes and suddenly bust a hard right down the worn road of cliche? Odd.
I still think Prometheus succeeded overall but what could have, and probably should have been a legitimately great film devolved into just a good sci-fi flick in second half of the third act. I'd definitely be interested in hearing what the writers were trying to accomplish. You tell a unique and in many ways unconventional story for 100 minutes and suddenly bust a hard right down the worn road of cliche? Odd.
Angry Fork
Member
Now I want to see a David spin-off where he goes on other ships and causes catastrophes just out of curiosity.
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