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[mrklaw]

Looking at it, there is quite a bit that seems OTT - I know they'll absorb costs, but there is a limit, and I want it to be as cheap as possible. There is stuff on there that just seems pointless.

- TWO HDMI ports. Why two? Nobody will actually use two, and they'll probably drop it off by the PSthree. There is hardware inside to drive two displays - pointless. Come to that, why have even one HDMI port? Why not just have the AV socket, and let you buy an HDMI breakout box? The percentage of people that will actually use it is quite small - I like HD but I need component, so no use to me, and many others.

- gigabit switch. Not sure about the reasoning behind this. Presumably you are more likely to have this under your TV if you can connect other ethernet devices to it. But if you have lots of devices, then you'll have a solution already.

- wireless built in. I love this if its just a wireless device. But if it works in conjunction with the ethernet switch, then it has to act like a wireless bridge, and thats a lot more cost than simply having a wireless-enabled device.

I'm sure there's other stuff thats way OTT, but just that stuff above could easily be $50 on the retail price.

 

[Moegames]

The two display is a free thing..because Nvidia/Sony is basically using a standard PC video chip..which all pc video chips from Nvidia support two video outputs.

As far as the rest of what you say..i agree

It seems ps3 is aiming at more then just a gaming machine and i think this is sony's BIG MISTAKE.

 

[PS2 KID]

I read that you can hook up PS3's with the gigabit ethernet connections. Also the next eye-toy will use it. But why 3? Probably to use as a small hub.

Wireless 802.11 b/g. No wires! No USB Dongles! woohoo. Now it's probably going to be so it can stream or be streamed to from other devices like the PSP. Now you can watch movies on the crapper without the use of a big capacity memory stick.

Now the 6 USB ports.. I really have no idea.

 

[fugimax]

Isn't gigabit ethernet key to Sony harnessing Cells in other appliances for processing power?

 

[Argyle]

Looking at it, there is quite a bit that seems OTT - I know they'll absorb costs, but there is a limit, and I want it to be as cheap as possible. There is stuff on there that just seems pointless.

- TWO HDMI ports. Why two? Nobody will actually use two, and they'll probably drop it off by the PSthree. There is hardware inside to drive two displays - pointless. Come to that, why have even one HDMI port? Why not just have the AV socket, and let you buy an HDMI breakout box? The percentage of people that will actually use it is quite small - I like HD but I need component, so no use to me, and many others.

- gigabit switch. Not sure about the reasoning behind this. Presumably you are more likely to have this under your TV if you can connect other ethernet devices to it. But if you have lots of devices, then you'll have a solution already.

- wireless built in. I love this if its just a wireless device. But if it works in conjunction with the ethernet switch, then it has to act like a wireless bridge, and thats a lot more cost than simply having a wireless-enabled device.

I'm sure there's other stuff thats way OTT, but just that stuff above could easily be $50 on the retail price.

I generally agree about the dual HDMI ports, unless you need to run two cables to one monitor in order to drive 1080p resolution (anyone know?)...

Gigabit switch is probably because Kutaragi might expect Japan to hit gigabit speeds for net access - aren't lots of places wired for fiber-to-the-curb? We may not see this in the next five years in the US, however.

As for the wireless, I welcome it being built in. As I understand it the difference between a bridge and a normal wireless enabled device is really software/firmware, not hardware, so the cost difference is negligible (probably just the cost of adding the bridging mode to the OS)

 

[CabbageRed]

Agreed. I seems so odd since the people who would need these features are likely the same people who would have no trouble paying for them. It is like Sony is adding to the loss they take on each console while missing out on a quick peripheral sale.

 

[mrklaw]

but bridges are a lot more expensive than simple wifi USB dongles, or wifi cards for your PC. Must be a reason - just volumes?

 

[Raistlin]

- gigabit switch. Not sure about the reasoning behind this. Presumably you are more likely to have this under your TV if you can connect other ethernet devices to it. But if you have lots of devices, then you'll have a solution already.

Not sure the point of the switch yet either, though I wonder if it can actually act as a dedicated hub? It's possible that Sony sees this as being part of the first 'network' many people might have in there homes? The PS3 OS might be set up to be pretty much plug-n-play with Win, Linux, and/or Mac machines ... just connect your PC to your PS3, and viola, network.

I'm glad they went with gigabit. Data transfer and streaming will be awesome with this.

- wireless built in. I love this if its just a wireless device. But if it works in conjunction with the ethernet switch, then it has to act like a wireless bridge, and thats a lot more cost than simply having a wireless-enabled device.

I think the main reason for this is to connect with the PSP. It doesn't hurt that you can use it on your network either.

 

[thorns]

I agree. You can add to the list CF/memstick reader and bluetooth. It seems that they're not following the same design principles that they did with the ps2. They're abandoning simplicity for the sake of having something like a media center PC. I think streaming the stuff from the PC is a much nicer solution. I wonder if the 10s of ports in the back will be confusing for the average consumer or not.

 

[Suikoguy]

Well, all this depends on the true cost to include each one.. to which I really have no idea

 

[capslock]

I agree, if you will remember that the PS2 also had some strange hardware decisions (only 2 controllers, USB ports, who the hell ever used the USB ports?). It seems that this kitchen sink approach is part of Sony's perception war to make the XBox 360 look less feature rich in comparison. I highly doubt even 1% of Sony's userbase will be using gigabit ethernet (at least in the US) or dual HDMI ports in the console's lifespan.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Ha, it really is the 'hub' of a home network.

 

[PS2 KID]

From the Kutaragi interview (translated by one)

Kutaragi: In the next spring, CELL will start to enter homes as the form of PS3. Thought in it there are 7 SPEs, it may be seen only as one hardware from users. But since PS3 has Gigabit Ethernet from day one, you can connect CELLs right away at 1Gbps when you have more CELLs in your home. It can be a home server, or more PS3s, in various styles CELLs in home can connect with one another via network. With 100Mbps bandwidth, they can be connected even through internet.

He also talks about Cell Storage. External HDD/NAS perhaps?

 

[Shogmaster]

I'm sorta confused by the design philosophy of the PS3... For instance, PS3 "supports" removable hard drive, but does not come with one, correct? Doesn't that fact (and that no standarized HD) kind of make all those other stuff moot since you can't have standard features implimented for those things for all PS3 owners?

 

[SolidSnakex]

USB ports, who the hell ever used the USB ports?).

You're just joking, right?

 

[FightyF]

AAAaahh why do people call it USB dongles?!

It's becoming increasingly common...but I can't stand it!

I really think a lot of these features will come with little cost. It's just a gut feeling.

 

[PS2 KID]

I'm sorta confused by the design philosophy of the PS3... For instance, PS3 "supports" removable hard drive, but does not come with one, correct? Doesn't that fact (and that no standarized HD) kind of make all those other stuff moot since you can't have standard features implimented for those things for all PS3 owners?

I don't know if it has one or not. I couldn't find any other information on it besides:

Storage:
- HDD: Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1

on the spec sheet.

I guess we'll find out closer to launch or TGS.

 

[Jonnyram]

I'm sorta confused by the design philosophy of the PS3... For instance, PS3 "supports" removable hard drive, but does not come with one, correct? Doesn't that fact (and that no standarized HD) kind of make all those other stuff moot since you can't have standard features implimented for those things for all PS3 owners?

It can stream data over gigabit ethernet from your PC HDD, silly

 

[capslock]

You're just joking, right?

I have owned a PS2 since 2002, never needed the ports for anything, don't know anyone with the PS2 that uses 'em either. 2 extra controller ports instead of the USB ports would have been much better imho.

 

[Jonnyram]

I have owned a PS2 since 2002, never needed the ports for anything, don't know anyone with the PS2 that uses 'em either. 2 extra controller ports instead of the USB ports would have been much better imho.

I used one for the trance vibrator in Rez, and you can use them for the EyeToy, modems, and control peripherals I think.

 

[Shogmaster]

It can stream data over gigabit ethernet from your PC HDD, silly

My point is, if you have to buy your own HDD, then you won't have core features for the HDD that the game devs will utilize due to fractured user base.

 

[xabre]

Six USB ports is just total overkill for a game console and I really don't know what the hell they're supposed to be for. It's not like you're going to have even two peripherals permanently connected to a game console never mind six.

 

[Jonnyram]

My point is, if you have to buy your own HDD, then you won't have core features for the HDD that the game devs will utilize due to fractured user base.

I know, I was just kidding. This is exactly what happened with the PS2 and it will happen again with the PS3. That's why FFXI is on 360, not PS3. I have yet to see any evidence of intelligence regarding online from Sony too. They are going to get owned in that department.

 

[Shogmaster]

I know, I was just kidding.

DOH! I blame slow GAF not loading the smilie at the end of your post fast enough!

 

[Yusaku]

- TWO HDMI ports. Why two? Nobody will actually use two, and they'll probably drop it off by the PSthree. There is hardware inside to drive two displays - pointless. Come to that, why have even one HDMI port? Why not just have the AV socket, and let you buy an HDMI breakout box? The percentage of people that will actually use it is quite small - I like HD but I need component, so no use to me, and many others.

A straight HDMI port makes MUCH more sense when you consider DVI. If it used a multi-AV port they'd have to release both an HDMI cable, and a DVI cable with analog audio connections. Plus it's probably more expensive to make a multi-AV port that can support both digital and analog video. Having dual-HDMI is cheaper for Sony and consumers, and allows them to utilize the dual-HD output that already exists in the nVidia hardware.

 

[Yusaku]

You guys realize that having six USB ports versus two or four makes zero impact on cost or price of the console, right? And we have NO idea whether or not it will include a HD.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I do not think it is over-engineered: they want it as YOUR Media Hub and they deliver it in such a way it can actually work like one in addition to play great games.

I do not think it should be a big problem if you want to connect the PlayStation 3 through the Gigabit Ethernet port and have the PlayStation 3 work as Wireless Access Point or if you want the PlayStation 3 to be basically a WiFi Repeater/Bridge: we have a fully working Switching Hub (Layer 3 routing and DHCP can be handled in software) and a fully working WiFi 802.11 b/g interface so connession bridging and routing should be very doable in software.

Dual HDMI support also makes sense for people using the dual monitor support: something like a Playstation 3 Linux kit in bigger scale is not impossible to imagine (with good caching hierarchy, 256 MB of XDR and 256 MB of VRAM Linux performance might be more than just acceptable ) and in that sense dual monitor support makes even more sense.

Gigabit Ethernet also allows the connection of multiple PlayStation 3 consoles: the OS is designed to automatically become aware of the connected PlayStation 3 and to try to take advantage of the increased processing power (cheap render-farm based on stock PlayStation 3 consoles with attacched HDD ?).

Sure they could have taken out the Hub, the dual monitor display, the SD and CF slots, etc..., but I do not think it would have helped them much: it would have made their goal of becoming the lead living room Media Hub CE device much harder to even getting close to realize this vision. For once they also open up to other standards to allow consumers not to corner themselves if they choose PlayStation 3 as their Media Hub in the living room, we should be happy about their plans for PlayStation 3.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

How else are they going to justify the $400 or $500 dollar price?

 

[thorns]

I do not think it is over-engineered: they want it as YOUR Media Hub and they deliver it in such a way it can actually work like one in addition to play great games.

I do not think it should be a big problem if you want to connect the PlayStation 3 through the Gigabit Ethernet port and have the PlayStation 3 work as Wireless Access Point or if you want the PlayStation 3 to be basically a WiFi Repeater/Bridge: we have a fully working Switching Hub (Layer 3 routing and DHCP can be handled in software) and a fully working WiFi 802.11 b/g interface so connession bridging and routing should be very doable in software.

Dual HDMI support also makes sense for people using the dual monitor support: something like a Playstation 3 Linux kit in bigger scale is not impossible to imagine (with good caching hierarchy, 256 MB of XDR and 256 MB of VRAM Linux performance might be more than just acceptable ) and in that sense dual monitor support makes even more sense.

Gigabit Ethernet also allows the connection of multiple PlayStation 3 consoles: the OS is designed to automatically become aware of the connected PlayStation 3 and to try to take advantage of the increased processing power (cheap render-farm based on stock PlayStation 3 consoles with attacched HDD ?).

Sure they could have taken out the Hub, the dual monitor display, the SD and CF slots, etc..., but I do not think it would have helped them much: it would have made their goal of becoming the lead living room Media Hub CE device much harder to even getting close to realize this vision. For once they also open up to other standards to allow consumers not to corner themselves if they choose PlayStation 3 as their Media Hub in the living room, we should be happy about their plans for PlayStation 3.

but 99%+ of the people don't need dual monitor support or gigabit ethernet or ps3 as a router. These are nice to have, if these things add to the cost at all, most people will end up paying for things that they don't need at all.

 

[TheDuce22]

What percentage of playstation 3 owners do you think will use ANY of that crap. Be honest. My guess 5% at most. Not nearly enough to justify the higher price no matter how you look at it.

 

[Panajev2001a]

If it is not there: BOOOOOOH, I WANT TO USE MY SDDDDD!!!!!! BOOOOOOH NINTENDO IS OFFERING BUILT IN WIFI!!!!!!!! BOOOOOOH SONY PUSHING ALWAYYYYYYSSYSYSSSSSS ITS OWN CLOSED STANDARDS.

If it is there: BOOOOOOOOOH I AM PAYING FOR STUFF I WON'T USE !!!!!! BOOOOOOH WHO THE HECK NEEEEEEDS ANY OF THOSE FEATURES ?!?!? BOOOOOHOHOHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!

 

[Hitokage]

Six USB ports is just total overkill for a game console and I really don't know what the hell they're supposed to be for. It's not like you're going to have even two peripherals permanently connected to a game console never mind six.

All wired ps3 devices will be USB this time around, even controllers when not in wireless mode. So... it translates to having 4 controller ports on front.

As for three gigabit ethernet ports, it's obvious: clustering.

 

[Panajev2001a]

What percentage of playstation 3 owners do you think will use ANY of that crap. Be honest. My guess 5% at most. Not nearly enough to justify the higher price no matter how you look at it.

What higher price ? I was not aware they announced it already.

Second, if you do not feel the machine is worth the price, hold off the purchase: it will mean I will have a higher probability of finding one at launch .

Also, something tells me that when you are given something... you do find use for it .

 

[Jonnyram]

If it is not there: BOOOOOOH...

If it is there: BOOOOOOOOOH...

Are you surprised if they include a gigabit ethernet switch but no hard disk drive?

 

[SolidSnakex]

I have owned a PS2 since 2002, never needed the ports for anything, don't know anyone with the PS2 that uses 'em either. 2 extra controller ports instead of the USB ports would have been much better imho.

They're used for Eyetoy, GT wheels ect. I'm not saying everyone uses them, but they're far from being useless additions to the console.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Are you surprised if they include a gigabit ethernet switch but no hard disk drive?

I will take what they give .

I would not be surprised seeing that they might not need a built-in HDD thanks to the wide selection of memory devices you can use to save data and hold personal content on (large and by then even cheaper Memory Stick Pro Duo, SD and CF cards plus streaming through Ethernet or WiFi [only 5% of the Playstation 3 potential buyers have a PC in their home ?] or USB thanks to USB PenDrives or iPod-like devices).

 

[Vince]

Honda: In the aspect of AV entertainment, what function does CELL computing that centers at PS3 offer us?

Kutaragi: Imagine we can realize the world where can easily use supercomputing power in home. CELL can realize it. PS3 and other CELL-embedded machines have the base for CELL computing through network. What's possible with a supercomputer?

For example, we internally call it as "ripening", if you lay a content in a storage server on a network, CELL ripens it when it's not used and improves its quality. For example it can ripen an SD resolution movie to up-convert to an HD movie with more details. Those contents are stored in "CELL Storage" that is a network stroage with Gigabit Ethernet and RAID. We have many plans but will certainly offer CELL Storage.

(Honda's comment: the same kind of upconverting a movie was demonstrated by Intel but they explained it requires a future many-core CPU. CELL will be able to do it and other wonderful things on a home network)

]b]Kutaragi[/b]: In future CELL home server will be in home and it'll automatically maintain contents in CELL Storage. With the security function in CELL, you can rip a copyrighted material such as DVD and put it on a storage then can ripen it to be more beautiful.

Honda: When the era of digital contents comes in the mainstream, a home network will be filled with digital data. For example you can't sort digital camera pictures by yourself because they are too many. TV programs and music are like that too. How to maintain directories for those contents and how to search them may be solved by image analysis. Moreover, the part that visualizes results for analysis and search can be navigated plainly with 3D graphics in PS3 as a frontend.

Kutaragi: Don't worry, as it's what I want most, we'll start the development soon after we release PS3. Technologies for information analysis of movie, still picture, and sound have a tremendous number of methods including research projects not well known. With supercomputer power we can apply them in home.

As Panajev said, since the OS is network-aware the potential is huge.

Here's an example off the top of my head using Wi-Fi and Gigabit-Ethernet. It would appear to be make it feasible to connect a CELL-Storage device (say a CE product powered by CELL with a 250GB HDD expandable to 1TB) that acts as a DVR on steroids...

So, you connect the CELL-Storage to the PS3 and when you play a BDR or (whats cooler is if it's a..) DVD it offers you the chance -- as you watch -- to encode it (say, with MPEG4-AVC) and save the movie to HDD-Storage. Eventually the allways-on CELL-Storage will go back and "ripen" the content, add semnatics, etc. It would also allow for downloading of Digital Content, initially atleast Sony's huge media library off Sony-Connect.

Then you could use your PSP to access your now centralized and searchable|transversable library of content from your home network directly with 802.11x or anywhere via IP and a hotspot. Figure the CELL-storage can use CELL to resize the video in RT.

Or, perhaps use your PSP as a wireless remote control in navigating the saved and ripened digital content stored on the CELL-Storage, using the PSP has a dumb terminal and CELL to present the content which can be searched and arranged in a GUI along the lines of the 12HD streams, 1000 Thumbnail demo that ran on Cell at E3.


It could be cool, in as far as potential goes.

 

[The Faceless Master]

i dont get it... if it launches at $299 anyway, this stuff is just extra shit we got for free...

this thread seems like MS damage control for having only 2 front USB and no Wifi/HDMI/Optical Out built in...

 

[midnightguy]

what I am interesting in, is the possibility of chaining PS3s together for more "super" supercomputing capabilities. well, if it can be used for graphics and games, going beyond what a single PS3 can do. is this feasible in PS3's lifetime ?

edit: oh i see Pana kind of mentioned what I was hoping for

Gigabit Ethernet also allows the connection of multiple PlayStation 3 consoles: the OS is designed to automatically become aware of the connected PlayStation 3 and to try to take advantage of the increased processing power (cheap render-farm based on stock PlayStation 3 consoles with attacched HDD ?).

what about for...on the consumer/gaming side?

 

[Vince]

what I am interesting in, is the possibility of chaining PS3s together for more "super" supercomputing capabilities. well, if it can be used for graphics and games, going beyond what a single PS3 can do. is this feasible in PS3's lifetime ?

How do you design a game around an unknown amount of computation?

 

[Amir0x]

I don't care what shit they cram into the PS3, as long as it launches at 349.99 or less in the US. If it's more, fuck that and I'll wait for price drop.

 

[Shogmaster]

what I am interesting in, is the possibility of chaining PS3s together for more "super" supercomputing capabilities. well, if it can be used for graphics and games, going beyond what a single PS3 can do. is this feasible in PS3's lifetime ?

edit: oh i see Pana kind of mentioned what I was hoping for



what about for...on the consumer/gaming side?

Obviously gaming is just a trojan horse for glabal domination via Skynet-esque take over. Damn that Kutaragi!

 

[capslock]

How do you design a game around an unknown amount of computation?

It's called PC gaming.

 

[TheDuce22]

What higher price ? I was not aware they announced it already.

If they are keeping the price at 300 for launch the more the better, its just hard to believe it wont be more expensive due to all these featuers I will never use.

 

[midnightguy]

btw, if I remember correctly, the original Japanese Playstation that came out in 1994 had seperate multi AV out and S-video jacks. the U.S. model of 1995 did away with the S-video jack.

and we've seen the i-link port removed in recent fullsized PS2s


we will no doubt see some of the ports on PS3 removed in future revisions to cut costs.

 

[Polari]

Making it a switch is a bit silly. Really, all 5 people that need a gigabit ethernet switch can buy one themselves.

Dual HDMI - whether or not it was a byproduct of using an nVidia chipset, it's still useless.

6 USB ports is excessive. As with the switch, if people want 6 USB ports they can buy a hub.

Nice to see CF, SD AND Memory Stick options though. It demonstrates that we're seeing a long overdue new way of thinking at Sony. One that actually tries to serve the customers rather than lock them in to Sony technology.

Also, the lack of any built in storage is a HUGE error on Sony's part. It's 2005 dammit, you know you're in trouble when even Nintendo is following suit.

 

[Fafalada]

I'm sorta confused by the design philosophy of the PS3... For instance, PS3 "supports" removable hard drive, but does not come with one, correct?

Not really confirmed either way yet.
I also heard that HD being "standard" on Xenon may not be set in stone as is generally assumed either.

The two display is a free thing..because Nvidia/Sony is basically using a standard PC video chip..

Actually IMO that's just FUD. GS chip in PS2 has two display outputs also and that didn't translate into machine coming with two connectors. In other words, it's either not "free", or there is an actual design reason for it being there other then "oh it MUST be using a standard PC chip".

 

[Shogmaster]

I also heard that HD being "standard" on Xenon may not be set in stone as is generally assumed either.

Oh come on now. It's part of the official published specs that has ran by now in countless magazines and web sites. Can't go back on that anymore. 20GB HD included is a done deal.

The only things that might change for X360's specs this late in the game will be if the yields on the chips are low and they have to downclock the CPU or GPU (like NV2A going from 250Mhz to 233Mhz back in 2nd half of 2001).

 

[Pug]

Faf in this months Edge the interview with JA says the HD is as fundenmental to the 360 as it was on Xbox1. Hence a 20 GB drive comes as standard. I'd say thats pretty decisive. As for PS3, it seems highly likely that it an option.

 

[MrSingh]

If it is not there: BOOOOOOH, I WANT TO USE MY SDDDDD!!!!!! BOOOOOOH NINTENDO IS OFFERING BUILT IN WIFI!!!!!!!! BOOOOOOH SONY PUSHING ALWAYYYYYYSSYSYSSSSSS ITS OWN CLOSED STANDARDS.

If it is there: BOOOOOOOOOH I AM PAYING FOR STUFF I WON'T USE !!!!!! BOOOOOOH WHO THE HECK NEEEEEEDS ANY OF THOSE FEATURES ?!?!? BOOOOOHOHOHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!

itsa true. I keep buying all this gay porn that I never watch.