Support NeoGAF

[Zaptruder]

If you look at the PS3 from as a console it certainly is over engineered.

But if you can wrap your head around and respect the vision that Kutaragi is trying to accomplish, all the stuff in there makes a good deal of sense.

Much more so than the PS2 before it, the PS3 will be not just a game console, but a home media entertainment unit.

It's going to take advantage of its cell processor to not only do gaming, but additional media functions as well, including reencoding, upscaling, acting as a homeserver, etc (stuff that you wouldn't be able to do on a normally without a computer and strong processor) and generally been a spearhead into the world of relatively standardized convergence computing. Kinda like how PCs do everything... except cost heaps and is complex as fuck for everyone to maintain and develop for (relative to the idea of a PS3 type device anyway).

So hats of to Sony and thumbs down to idiot haters that are 'confused' about these 'bonus' inputs and extra functionalities.

 

[cybamerc]

Dual HDMI and 6 USB ports seems a bit excessive and like mrklaw I can see some of them go in future revisions. Nothing is free and particularly the dual screen output I can't see that many taking advantage of. I reckon it will be poorly supported by developers as well.

Other than that I applaud Sony for including a robust set of connectivity options unlike M$.

 

[TheDuce22]

Much more so than the PS2 before it, the PS3 will be not just a game console, but a home media entertainment unit.

Can someone tell me what it means to be a "home media entertainment unit" and how its possible without a harddrive.

 

[Pug]

cybamerc, although I'm happy with all the options Sony has decided to include on PS3 I know for certain I won't use many of them. As for the 360 it has USB ports and lets be honest interms of conectivity of devices thats all you really need.

 

[Jonnyram]

Much more so than the PS2 before it, the PS3 will be not just a game console, but a home media entertainment unit.

If this is to happen, it needs the HDD in there. How can you have a home media entertainment unit without the ability to record?

 

[mrklaw]

I'm trying to understand it as a media hub, and it still doesn't make sense. Thats why I left out the memory card slots, as they make sense for viewing images/movies from your digital camera.

Will it still work as a switch and wifi bridge when I'm playing games? There may be other devices that need access to my PC/NAS - eg my xbox streaming music (or a streamium/squeezebox if you want to be politically neutral). That has to be transparant for me to value its worth.

Will this mean my PS3 is on all the time to perform switching duties?

 

[cybamerc]

As for the 360 it has USB ports and lets be honest interms of conectivity of devices thats all you really need.

I disagree. The lack of HDMI is a huge minus. Also, while the Xbox 360 does have a HDD I think support for flash RAM cards is a nice feature as well.

Both systems are awesome pieces of hardware but ultimately I think PS3 is the more complete product.



Jonnyram:

> If this is to happen, it needs the HDD in there. How can you have a home media
> entertainment unit without the ability to record?

Record what? Does Xbox 360 come with a tuner?

 

[Hitokage]

Again, every USB port on the PS3 is also a controller port.... and funny enough, they put 4 on the front like some other consoles.

 

[wazoo]

The xbox360 can be connected to a PC by wifi.

How more connected can you be ??

 

[Zaptruder]

If this is to happen, it needs the HDD in there. How can you have a home media entertainment unit without the ability to record?

Er... that's a tricky question to answer and I'm not sure why the did that really (I'd have included a nominally sized HD, 20gigs or thereabout)... but if and they should be releasing the PS3+ which includes HD and BRD burner, that's problem is done and done.

The rest would just be to maintain compatibility between the 2 PS3 versions.

The xbox360 can be connected to a PC by wifi.

How more connected can you be ??

Well, you could include the wifi connection right out of the box.

 

[Zaptruder]

Can someone tell me what it means to be a "home media entertainment unit" and how its possible without a harddrive.

It still has 2 HDMI slots; imagine been able to watch a movie on one screen and surf the net on the other.

Or video conference on one and something else on the other.

Using the wifi/lan connection, it could also connect to a PC server with HDs and stream data off that.

Moreover, you'll be able to buy a standard sized (not majority standard, but standardized standard) hard drive.

Finally, there should be a second version that's dearer and comes with a large HD as well as a BRD burner.

 

[Fafalada]

Pug, I'm aware of what has been said, but let's just say I have reasons to be vary about it at the moment.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'm trying to understand it as a media hub, and it still doesn't make sense. Thats why I left out the memory card slots, as they make sense for viewing images/movies from your digital camera.

Will it still work as a switch and wifi bridge when I'm playing games? There may be other devices that need access to my PC/NAS - eg my xbox streaming music (or a streamium/squeezebox if you want to be politically neutral). That has to be transparant for me to value its worth.

Will this mean my PS3 is on all the time to perform switching duties?

Yes, both Kutaragi and Chatani talked about PlayStation 3 being always on, the central CE piece in your living room.

 

[Chittagong]

Damn Sony. For a complete home entertainment hub, they should have included in PS3

4 x optical input
4 x DVI input
Amplifier with 7.1 outputs
TV tuner

Cheap bastards.

 

[Shogmaster]

Pug, I'm aware of what has been said, but let's just say I have reasons to be vary about it at the moment.

That's a crap answer. Unless you have something concrete you can share with us, don't even bother commenting, ya? Ya.

 

[capslock]

Damn Sony. For a complete home entertainment hub, they should have included in PS3

4 x optical input
4 x DVI input
Amplifier with 7.1 outputs
TV tuner

Cheap bastards.

I can't believe with all these inputs for the PS3 they didn't include one for connecting my propane tank, I mean, how the hell am I supposed to grill burgers, chicken and steak on this thing if it can't connect a propane tank? BOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[monkeymagic]

Who's gonna buy movies to watch on the go?

This is typical forward thinking of Sony

Don't assess PS3's features according to today's wants and needs - this is a console that Sony hopes to support for 10 years.

So in 5 years time things like

- Gigabit switch
- MS/SD/CF readers
- Dual HDMI
- Multiple USB ports (4 on the front as controller ports)
- WiFi (802.11b/g)
- Bluetooth 2.0

will be considered baseline just as DVD playback, 480p output, and ethernet port are considered baseline now when they weren't in 2000. I already have a need for all of the above now

As for the HDD - Sony haven't released any details of PS3 packages and the initial unit could well ship with the HDD as the X360 is doing.

Wait and see

EDIT: More and more CE devices will come equipped with ethernet switches for internet connectivity pass-through without the requirement of a seperate router/hub. Whether they are required to be Gigabit is another story but I think all CELL CE devices will be for obvious reasons.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

All of the extra shit is fine...though I have images in my head of this grotesque and overstuffed techno-ocotopus with 8-10 electronic tendrils coiled all over my other systems and DVD player...aren't we trying to get away from wires? If this system is more than $350 at launch...I can wait. Same goes for 360. Game consoles need to launch at $299 and no more.

 

[DarienA]

- wireless built in. I love this if its just a wireless device. But if it works in conjunction with the ethernet switch, then it has to act like a wireless bridge, and thats a lot more cost than simply having a wireless-enabled device.

They made this other device called the PSP.....

 

[Drek]

The only reason there are two HDMIs is because they needed one already for optimal HDTV support, and nVidia's card supports 2 with no additional effort. The cost of the hardware itself, likely being in house fab'ed is dirt. The people who are going to really use the system as the home entertainment hub that Sony envisions it as will want the two displays for multitasking. Will it be widely accepted? No, but it needs to be included as a testing ground for how much consumers will take to it.

The 6 usb only makes sense, additional USB after the initial cost of a controller is dirt, so why not max out the controller's capabilities? If they're supporting up to 7 controllers through bluetooth they should provide an option for charging as many as possible at once.

Bluetooth was a real good choice in my opinion. 2.4ghz products are widespread enough so that there could be occasional interference. Putting the controllers on seperate wireless tech entirely aleviates that worry, and it would have cost about as much to go with 2.4ghz controllers.

The built in wifi I love, I can't see how anyone would complain about that. Same with the Gigabit ports. If I can network my living room through my PS3 I'll be more than happy to do so. One less wireless router I need to buy and have cluttering up my living room with its many cords.

The various card readers is an odd choice, but I can see why Sony did this. They're a company who puts various card readers in their damn TV sets now, the hardware costs are cheap enough to make it pretty easy to do so. This will let consumers with most types of digital camera, camcorder, etc. to view their data on the PS3. Its one of the features a lot of people, not just gamers, would use now, and often.

 

[Scott]

This is exactly what happened with the PS2 and it will happen again with the PS3. That's why FFXI is on 360, not PS3.

No. FFXI is on 360 because they couldn't get it released on XBox. It has absolutely nothing to do with PS3.

 

[monkeymagic]

That's why FFXI is on 360, not PS3.

FFXI is on PS3

PS3 is backwards compatible with PS2 games

 

[dark10x]

I love the idea of dual HDMI and an A/V port. I no longer enjoy playing split screen games and having the ability to play multiplayer games on two different displays without multiple systems being present sounds wonderful.

 

[Gantz]

Most likely they will be using cheap shoddy parts like they did with previous consoles then rev the shit out of them with multiple models.

 

[DarienA]

Most likely they will be using cheap shoddy parts like they did with previous consoles then rev the shit out of them with multiple models.

I'm disappointed this thread got this far before this post was made...

 

[Ollie Pooch]

I'm disappointed this thread got this far before this post was made...

same - my ps2 finally gave up this week... gonna give it a few months after launch before i even consider a ps3

*disc sucks in, comes out a mangled mess*

 

[DarienA]

same - my ps2 finally gave up this week... gonna give it a few months after launch before i even consider a ps3

*disc sucks in, comes out a mangled mess*

My post was in sarcasm... after the countless threads we've had here where people with various consoles over the years have disclosed problems with them, the fact that folks still think one manufacturer has a lock on shoddy equipment is....funny.

 

[dark10x]

same - my ps2 finally gave up this week... gonna give it a few months after launch before i even consider a ps3

*disc sucks in, comes out a mangled mess*

For one thing, are you sure it's actually dead? If you are only seeing disc read errors, chances are, the unit is fine...but needs a little internal work (which you can do).

 

[midnightguy]

It still has 2 HDMI slots; imagine been able to watch a movie on one screen and surf the net on the other.

Or video conference on one and something else on the other.

Using the wifi/lan connection, it could also connect to a PC server with HDs and stream data off that.

Moreover, you'll be able to buy a standard sized (not majority standard, but standardized standard) hard drive.

Finally, there should be a second version that's dearer and comes with a large HD as well as a BRD burner.

or play a PS1/PS2 game on one screen and video conference on the other.

or have two screens for surfing the web. possibilities are very wide ranging

 

[Ollie Pooch]

My post was in sarcasm... after the countless threads we've had here where people with various consoles over the years have disclosed problems with them, the fact that folks still think one manufacturer has a lock on shoddy equipment is....funny.

woops - well it's not so much me cornering sony off as the only offender.. but i come from the mindset of once bitten twice shy- i've been on a bitter rampage against shoddy products ever since my philips 2x cd burner died and they wouldn't cover it under warranty sometime in the 90s..

maybe i'm just trying to make up reasons to stop myself being sucked in at ps3 launch

For one thing, are you sure it's actually dead? If you are only seeing disc read errors, chances are, the unit is fine...but needs a little internal work (which you can do).

i resurrected it briefly by pulling it apart and cleaning the lens.. i'll probably try it another time but i do believe it's on its way out

 

[dark10x]

Run over to Gamefaqs and check out the lens callibration FAQ. It's a suprisingly easy fix that does, in fact, fix the DRE problems for most units. I believe it is caused when the drive simply vibrates a bit too much. There are two "screws" on the lens that adjust the voltage and when those get knocked out of place, the system starts to have issues reading discs. I've even had success with old US launch PS2s, believe it or not. Suddenly, discs start booting quickly and DREs become a thing of the past. Dust is an issue, but it is not the sole issue.

Oddly enough, the dust problem doesn't seem to have started until they added the HDD bay. The original launch Japanese PS2s with the PCMCIA slot seem to be free of this. I know several people with launch JP units that still function perfectly. I think the HDD bay may have been poor engineering and allowed dust to be easily pulled through the drive when spinning. Of course, that has nothing to do with the voltage issue.

So, like I said, it's a flaw but that doesn't mean your system is shot. You should be able to fix it if you follow the directions carefully. The DVD screw is more sensitive BTW and overadjusting that can actually ruin the lens. So, just take it slow and you should be set for a good long time.

 

[Electron]

Are these the same people who were complaining when the PS2 came out that it only had 2 controller ports? PLEASE PEOPLE!

-Wireless out of the box? A must in 2006!
-2 HDMI ports? I use a lap top in front of the TV for messaging....won't be needed now.

 

[chinch]

lol @ Faf drive spin. The PS3 is ambitious but DOES have alot of stuff that should be removed for cost competitive reasons and to not confuse the customer. Sony also fails to realize the PC will be the hub, not a PS3 and they have things all backwards as a result.

Does the PS3 serve as a ROUTER? if not anyone with broadband and a PC will need a router and that has a free switch.

TX1000/GB lan port - this is useful and really no more $$$. $699 notebooks have them standard now... keep it.

hub/switch - this is useless and should be removed. best left at the PC.

6 usb ports - that is 4 too many for a game console

wireless - should be an add-on like 360. reason being is that 56g is obsolete in a year and now the early adopters have a GB lan card but 56kb wireless mode they're stuck with.

memory card - nice to have all 3 but an add-on adapter (for the people who want to hookup this to a PS3 directly - lol - can subsidize this cost).

HDMI - one is enough.

hard drive - one is needed STANDARD with every PS3

 

[Forsete]

or play a PS1/PS2 game on one screen and video conference on the other.

or have two screens for surfing the web. possibilities are very wide ranging

Yep, two HDMI outputs is one feature which I am very excited about. Playing an online game on the big screen and perhaps using a smaller PC TFT as the 2nd screen where you can keep stats, the people who you are chatting with etc. The main screen can then be almost free of HUD, like in a racing game for example.

Also playing a slow paced MMORPG and using the second screen for the web browser or some other stuff, I used to love doing that when I was playing EVE online.

The possibilities and endless. 2x HDMI is the future.

 

[monkeymagic]

lol @ Faf drive spin. The PS3 is ambitious but DOES have alot of stuff that should be removed for cost competitive reasons and to not confuse the customer. Sony also fails to realize the PC will be the hub, not a PS3 and they have things all backwards as a result.

Does the PS3 serve as a ROUTER? if not anyone with broadband and a PC will need a router and that has a free switch.

TX1000/GB lan port - this is useful and really no more $$$. $699 notebooks have them standard now... keep it.

hub/switch - this is useless and should be removed. best left at the PC.

6 usb ports - that is 4 too many for a game console

wireless - should be an add-on like 360. reason being is that 56g is obsolete in a year and now the early adopters have a GB lan card but 56kb wireless mode they're stuck with.

memory card - nice to have all 3 but an add-on adapter (for the people who want to hookup this to a PS3 directly - lol - can subsidize this cost).

HDMI - one is enough.

hard drive - one is needed STANDARD with every PS3

Sony are going the opposite route of MS - they are trying to remove the PC from the equation of multimedia home entertainment in the living room as are other CE companies

More and more CE devices are shipping with their own hard drives, HDMI/DVI/VGA output, Divx/MP3 etc. playback, ethernet ports, storage card readers and their own OS/interfaces.

In 5 years the requirement of a PC to access and play your own movies, photos and music in the living will be considered somewhat backwards.

The modified XBox is the perfect example of what Sony are trying to achieve except with next gen HD features that come out of the box as standard

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Run over to Gamefaqs and check out the lens callibration FAQ.

will do. thanks, i appreciate it

 

[mrklaw]

Sony are going the opposite route of MS - they are trying to remove the PC from the equation of multimedia home entertainment in the living room as are other CE companies

More and more CE devices are shipping with their own hard drives, HDMI/DVI/VGA output, Divx/MP3 etc. playback, ethernet ports, storage card readers and their own OS/interfaces.

In 5 years the requirement of a PC to access and play your own movies, photos and music in the living will be considered somewhat backwards.

The modified XBox is the perfect example of what Sony are trying to achieve except with next gen HD features that come out of the box as standard

Nice idea, but not reality, and certainly not within the next 5-7 years. You will have more widespread Networked storage, and streaming solutions, but they will mostly be PC controlled.

You still need fairly complex UIs to control ripping etc, and that means monitor and mouse, and flexible OS. CE solutions are nice for some people, but by no means the same people that would be attracted by a PS3 or Xbox 360.

 

[monkeymagic]

Nice idea, but not reality, and certainly not within the next 5-7 years. You will have more widespread Networked storage, and streaming solutions, but they will mostly be PC controlled.

You still need fairly complex UIs to control ripping etc, and that means monitor and mouse, and flexible OS. CE solutions are nice for some people, but by no means the same people that would be attracted by a PS3 or Xbox 360.

The biggest selling CE devices are digital cameras, camcorders, MP3, DVD and CD players.

My point was regarding playback of media across/from these devices.

I don't do any ripping on my modified XBox - just playback of pretty much any media I like, viewing the odd RSS feed and of course playing games. Right now I have to FTP media to my XBox or burn it to CD/DVD first - the ability to connect to multiple types of storage card would be an excellent addition.

Ripping, encoding, burning will always be in the PC realm but only a small % of the living room market even care about that.

 

[RuGalz]

Nice idea, but not reality, and certainly not within the next 5-7 years. You will have more widespread Networked storage, and streaming solutions, but they will mostly be PC controlled.

Things being controlled by PC is one of the big reasons why average joe can't or don't or won't use it. Putting everything in one box, while not perfectly executed in case of PS3, is still a step toward the right direction IMO.

 

[chinch]

Sony are going the opposite route of MS - they are trying to remove the PC from the equation of multimedia home entertainment in the living room as are other CE companies

More and more CE devices are shipping with their own hard drives, HDMI/DVI/VGA output, Divx/MP3 etc. playback, ethernet ports, storage card readers and their own OS/interfaces.

but not Sony's PS3. LOL.

sure, tivo/dvrs have "hard drives" but they're unusable as a network storage. same goes for the PS3 it appears.

i understand what sony wants, it's just that it's not thought out in any way for the consumer and this concept will badly fail (even if PS3 sales are great as expected). All these ports do NOTHING to allow a user to make the PS3 into a "pc" and upload/share photos, fill their ipod with music, download videos on the 'net, create movies, etc.

In 5 years the requirement of a PC to access and play your own movies, photos and music in the living will be considered somewhat backwards.

The modified XBox is the perfect example of what Sony are trying to achieve except with next gen HD features that come out of the box as standard

and they omit the HD? ok... brilliant strategy there.

PCs aren't going anywhere.

 

[RuGalz]

I could also easily bitch about 20G HD not enough for what I need for a media center hub but I'm being forced to purchase a machine with it just to have it thrown out for a larger HD. It goes either way.

Anyhow HD isn't necessary for playback stuff like monkeymagic said. It'd be nice to be a standard but I'm not going to sweat over it.

 

[monkeymagic]

but not Sony's PS3. LOL.

sure, tivo/dvrs have "hard drives" but they're unusable as a network storage. same goes for the PS3 it appears.

i understand what sony wants, it's just that it's not thought out in any way for the consumer and this concept will badly fail (even if PS3 sales are great as expected). All these ports do NOTHING to allow a user to make the PS3 into a "pc" and upload/share photos, fill their ipod with music, download videos on the 'net, create movies, etc.



and they omit the HD? ok... brilliant strategy there.

PCs aren't going anywhere.

You're still not understanding so let me spell it out to you

- Playback of your photos from your digital camera - no HDD needed
- Playback of VCDs, SVCDs, Divx/Xvid, DVDs, Blu-Ray HD movies or your own movies from your digital camcorder - no HDD needed
- Playback of CDs, SACDs or MP3s from your DAP - no HDD needed

Playback, Playback, Playback

This is what most people's idea of home entertainment in the living room is - not ripping, burning, downloading or organising media.

The only requirement for a HDD in the living room is for PVR features and there is rumoured to be a PS3 version with PVR which comes bundled with an HDD.

 

[trmas]

Actually, getting rid of the PC has always been Sony's vision, and that is the only reason that MS got involved in video games. This is not a big secret...

As for the rest, all of those features are cheap. GigEthernet is now standard and cheap, WiFi access should be in all devices (shame on you MS), 6 USB ports is the same price as 2, and Bluetooth is a stroke of genius.

As for the person who said 56G will be obsolete soon, obviously you know squat about professional or home networks...

 

[Zaptruder]

To the end of getting rid of PCs... they'd land a massive blow to the industry if they added linux to the PS3+ version... super computer @ 500$

That's quite the bargain, even if it is running linux.

 

[PS2 KID]

To the end of getting rid of PCs... they'd land a massive blow to the industry if they added linux to the PS3+ version... super computer @ 500$

That's quite the bargain, even if it is running linux.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was an OS available for the PS3.

As for the HDD, it should be included. An OEM 20gb 4200rpm 2.5" notebook hard drive will cost about the same as a memory card or less by the time the PS3 is released. For a few bucks more Sony could probably get a 40gb OEM one. I think for those who want more storage for movies and such, they'll go for 80-100gb models that run at 5400rpm or for performance a 7200rpm version (those aren't cheap though).

 

[Shogmaster]

To the end of getting rid of PCs... they'd land a massive blow to the industry if they added linux to the PS3+ version... super computer @ 500$

That's quite the bargain, even if it is running linux.

Running Linux on a PS3 will get you......? It's like running Linux on a single, OOOE castrated G5 @ 3.2Ghz with no way to use the SPEs without apps written specifically for them, and only 512MB of RAM.

I'm sure that will set the workstation world on fire, just as the EE/GS equipped workstations did back in 2001. Oh wait...

 

[DarienA]

wireless - should be an add-on like 360. reason being is that 56g is obsolete in a year and now the early adopters have a GB lan card but 56kb wireless mode they're stuck with.

Most consumers are STILL buying B products... G is JUST NOW starting to trickle in to consumers homes(regular consumers.. not the bleeding edge folk who are already buying PRE-N or already have digital media devices in their living room and already have G because they need the increased bandwith G provides). G will not be obsolete within the year... you are HIGH.

 

[Sean]

You can't really get rid of the PC when you talk about media, pictures, music etc. Just about everyone gets and stores their music on their computers - that's where it's easy to rip, edit, burn, load to your MP3 player, organize your music library, etc. Same with photos: the best place to store them is on the PC - easy to edit, print, organize, and email.

PC is not going anywhere. The console is just a nice way to play back your stuff in some situations.

 

[chinch]

You're still not understanding so let me spell it out to you

- Playback of your photos from your digital camera - no HDD needed
- Playback of VCDs, SVCDs, Divx/Xvid, DVDs, Blu-Ray HD movies or your own movies from your digital camcorder - no HDD needed
- Playback of CDs, SACDs or MP3s from your DAP - no HDD needed

Playback, Playback, Playback

This is what most people's idea of home entertainment in the living room is - not ripping, burning, downloading or organising media.

The only requirement for a HDD in the living room is for PVR features and there is rumoured to be a PS3 version with PVR which comes bundled with an HDD.

no, you're not getting it cause you're thinking to defend sony, not thinking how real people would utilize such things. you dismiss "organizing media" as irrelevant :lol

playback of digital photos from camera... MEMORY CARDS ARE NOT UNLIMITED. you need PC space to save, print, email them to friends. after you take 200 photos then what do you do without a PC and harddrive? These need to be organized (on a PC)

MP3s will be stored on a PC and need to be organized, etc. (on a PC).

You don't need all that nonsense for PLAYBACK.

 

[chinch]

Most consumers are STILL buying B products... G is JUST NOW starting to trickle in to consumers homes(regular consumers.. not the bleeding edge folk who are already buying PRE-N or already have digital media devices in their living room and already have G because they need the increased bandwith G provides). G will not be obsolete within the year... you are HIGH.

You obviously have no clue. pre-N is already shipping. nevermind you are thinking TODAY when PS3 ships many months from now in the USA.