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[Harmen]

To me it all seems pretty clear to be honest.

Higher resolution games and it is up to the developer if they go for improved 1080p versions (though there will be 1080p modes). Many PS4 games run at 900p or have a blurry look due to all kinds of AA solutions and the Pro offers a solution to that. Just compare the iq of Uncharted 4 to a lot of other 1080p games, most on PS4 are less clear (Arkham Knight would be an example of that). Unfortunately, older games mostly don't get an update and run in a compatibility mode but nothing about that has been unclear to me to be honest, outside from people speculating it may have done otherwise.

Its main marketing point is for the coming of cheap(er) 4K TV's, which are getting more and more affordable and in some countries (like mine, the Netherlands) 4k streaming is already feasible, so I know many who jumped ship to a 4k television. The PS4pro complements that, on top of doing everything else the PS4 has to offer.

 

[Ascenion]

They can't alienate 40 million PS4 owners so they can't make it seem like they are getting a worse experience even though they will absolutely be getting a worse experience compared to Pro owners going forward.

Are you sure about that? There's still no guarantee this doesn't go the way of the new 3DS.

 

[Newlove]

I personally don't think the changes will be significant enough with a 1080p TV to spend that much on an upgrade. The pro's focus is clearly on higher resolutions rather than major graphical changes. I'll just wait for the next generation and see what Scorpio is all about (although probably the same case).

 

[Seloth]

If you don't understand how 2x more powerful will translate into better looking games, then PS4 Pro probably isn't for you.

It's not even the same thing. Last time I checked NVIDIA aren't arbitrarily decreasing performance across games to the lowest common denominator. I don't have to worry about my game not running well because Timmy Twobucks down the road can't afford to upgrade his console.

Also they have not been clear on if there is a difference when playing games on a 1080p set. When I upgrade my card I know I'm going to get better fps when playing at the same res, on PS4Pro I don't.

Don't try playing off like you need to be some kind of genius to understand the difference. Don't compare it to something it's not.

 

[Asd202]

I wholeheartedly agree OP.

 

[UrbanRats]

that's the issue with iterative consoles in general. They are built to be optional, and so can't be sold in a way which dilutes the point of the base unit.

They can't alienate 40 million PS4 owners so they can't make it seem like they are getting a worse experience even though they will absolutely be getting a worse experience compared to Pro owners going forward.

Yeah, but marketing's essentially dishonesty, and so now they can't even be honest about this.

Because in all honesty this is a niche product that some will feel is needed, and some will feel is superfluous, but since everytime a new plastic thing comes out, it's advertised like the second coming of Christ, being honest about what the Pro really is, would be like eating an apple after the sugar and salt storm of a fast food meal, it's going to taste like paper.

The Pro essentially boosts IQ significantly and gives you a more stable framerate (for the most part, some games will do a bit more).
This is insignificant for the majority of people (casual market) and will be a must have a for a selected circle of tech enthusiasts.
As long as Sony has expectations in check, about who this console is aimed at, i think they're good.
It's also the reason why i think they should've pumped the price 50€ more, and put in an UHD player, it's going to be a niche product anyway.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I personally don't think the changes will be significant enough with a 1080p TV to spend that much on an upgrade. The pro's focus is clearly on higher resolutions rather than major graphical changes. I'll just wait for the next generation and see what Scorpio is all about (although probably the same case).

People buy hundreds of dollars worth of GPU's to downsample from higher resolutions and get that clarity of image. Higher resolutions by default will impact the 1080p native TV in excellent ways. You'll see.

The Pro essentially boosts IQ significantly and gives you a more stable framerate (for the most part, some games will do a bit more).

But you can also provide better graphics as well for games that have higher PC settings, so its not all IQ and FPS. But i get what your saying.

 

[Jumeira]

Agreed, poor and confusing at at the moment. Not worth purchasing if you own a ps4 from what we know. even the patched games don't look that much better from what we've been shown, the fact they need some faux 4k leaves me with little confidence with its power and makes me question why they'd release such an underpowered machine. It's a high end product, I'd expect the obvious increase in price from pro to be expected if not welcomed if the difference was drastic from ps4.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Its just the frustration that comes of people simply either not understanding basic concepts that goes with more powerful hardware, or just repeating ad nauseum the same stuff over and over.

Sony has said that you don't need a 4K TV to see any of this content including the 4K enabled content which should downsample automatically to lower res screens.

People seem to be expecting Sony to be responsible for explaining what individual devs will do with the hardware as well, when its up to those devs to decide how they want to exploit that power, if they do and make that known

This is the interesting thing, I don't remember people up in arms at Sony for introducing the PS4 and not explaining every single performance upgrade. I have no idea what is going on here other than wilful ignorance, idiocy and trolling.

 

[kyser73]

The console's design is definitely a factor when deciding whether to buy it. If it weren't the ugly design of the original Xbox One (and then the subsequent amazing design of the S) wouldn't have been a big deal. The Pro does not look like an aesthetically pleasing console at all.

As for 1080p, how can you get additional FPS improvements to 4K mode if it downsamples from said 4K mode? That's not how it works, on PC if I downsample from resolutions higher than 1080p my framerate will go down. Better IQ is not a good reason for me to buy a console, the games that sorely need it and FPS improvements (Bloodborne) aren't getting a patch and the games that are getting a patch (UC4, Infamous) already had amazing IQ in the first place.

1080p specific modes will be way too rare to justify a purchase, if it's not mandatory that's extra optional work for devs and that just won't happen. Note how those modes are tied to either games Sony is obviously footing the bill for (Paragon, Andromeda) or older/smaller games that aren't in active development (Tomb Raider, Witness). In the vast majority of cases it's just going to be a higher IQ for 1080p gamers, the fact that the hardware can do better does not mean developers will want to bug-test and work on a specific version.

PMSL.

It's a small white box with what looks like a retro speaker grill. 'Amazing' for sure.

 

[Sad Affleck]

It's an incredibly hard device to market well without sounding like your shitting on the current PS4. Doesn't help that a lot of the best features won't be visible on regular displays.

I think that is the problem that Sony is facing. It's a tough balancing act between presenting the advantages of new hardware and retaining the value of the old console. You don't want the budget conscious part of the market to think "well the PS4 is obsolete, I'll wait until the Pro drops in price".

 

[Inuhanyou]

The Pro essentially boosts IQ significantly and gives you a more stable framerate (for the most part, some games will do a bit more).

But you can also provide better graphics as well for games that have higher PC settings, so its not all IQ and FPS. But i get what your saying.

This is the interesting thing, I don't remember people up in arms at Sony for introducing the PS4 and not explaining every single performance upgrade. I have no idea what is going on here other than wilful ignorance, idiocy and trolling.

Well to be fair, this is brand new territory, dabbling in iterative consoles is going to be a landmine by default.

Personally, i'd rather not dip into it myself and wait for the next gen, but i know there is a segment of user out there who finds better performance, and higher fidelity of games important, so i argue for them mostly.

But i can also understand that there are people who don't care or are nor impressed. You can put out a 4K 60fps ultra settings high end PC version of a game side by side with the PS4 version, as DF did recently with BF1 and you'll still get plenty of people who say that it looks the same or there's not a big enough difference.

 

[Lionheart]

I think that is the problem that Sony is facing. It's a tough balancing act between presenting the advantages of new hardware and retaining the value of the old console. You don't want the budget conscious part of the market to think "well the PS4 is obsolete, I'll wait until the Pro drops in price".

That's indeed the biggest problem I think. In addition to not wanting to distract from PS VR sales as well.

I also wonder which of the two will be more profitable for Sony, the smaller PS4 or the PS4 Pro. I'm leaning towards the former.

Either way, I'm sure Sony will be very happy if PS4 + PS4 Pro sales combined will be higher on average each month than PS4 alone, whichever of the two sells more.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

I have a 4k TV, so it's good to me.

 

[Inuhanyou]

That's indeed the biggest problem I think. In addition to not wanting to distract from PS VR sales as well.

I also wonder which of the two will be more profitable for Sony, the smaller PS4 or the PS4 Pro. I'm leaning towards the former.

Either way, I'm sure Sony will be very happy if PS4 + PS4 Pro sales combined will be higher on average each month than PS4 alone, whichever of the two sells more.

First, what Sony needs to do before anything is cut the price of the slim. Its about 50 bucks too expensive. Way too close to the Pro, and it discourages impulse buys.

 

[UrbanRats]

But you can also provide better graphics as well for games that have higher PC settings, so its not all IQ and FPS. But i get what your saying.

That's true, it's why i wrote that line in parenthesys, however i wouldn't go in expecting all, or even the majority of titles to bother with that.
Whereas a better IQ and more stable performance is a realistic expectation out of all or almost all titles released from November on.
After all, even titles from Sony (Horizon) seem to mostly focus on better IQ and framerate.

 

[nomis]

How can anyone get upset that a corporation is releasing too little quality propaganda to convince them to buy something that will likely benefit them little if they already own a PS4? It's absurd

 

[Matthew23]

What Titanfall 2 devs have to say about Pro version:

“It’s a PS4 that’s faster. We’re able to increase the resolution, we have high-res shadows, and maybe higher particle counts. The frame rate is more stable; we have dynamic resolution scaling on all consoles, but it scales down less often on PS4 Pro to maintain 60 frames-per-second.”

“Because we also made the PC version, we have some nobs we can tweak, so we just spent some time making sure it still runs well and looks good on PS4 Pro. You know, making sure it doesn’t look any worse at all. That’s the requirement: it can’t run any worse or look worse than on PS4. So it runs better, looks better and has no bugs on PS4 Pro.

http://stevivor.com/2016/10/titanfall-2-isnt-native-4k-ps4-pro-stable-frame-rate-resolution/

 

[Always-honest]

It doesn't help that the thread on Gaf about what titles get a pro mode is incomplete and gives no specifics about what the enhancements are per game.

What Titanfall 2 devs have to say about Pro version:



http://stevivor.com/2016/10/titanfall-2-isnt-native-4k-ps4-pro-stable-frame-rate-resolution/

Yeah and they did this last minute. Devs can do much more.

 

[kyser73]

The problem is that Sony wants it both ways.

With one hand they're telling you "You need this, go buy it, it's great!" but with the other they want to reinforce that "Your PS4 is fine, you don't need this, it's not a big deal".

Or:

PS4 is a great all-round value proposition with a great library of games + PSVR

BUT if you want to spend a bit more and have the absolute latest thing, here's the Pro. Does all of the above, but prettier and will look great on your HD or UHD TV.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

PS4 pro, it only does??

 

[Rodelero]

I will permanently change my avatar to anything of anyones choosing if they go with Jaguar for the CPU.

Why do you think Microsoft are being so silent on this issue, incidentally?

They've specified the power of their GPU, they've told us how much memory bandwidth Scorpio will have, but they've been quiet on the CPU. Microsoft's entire Scorpio PR strategy is about promising something more powerful than what Sony is offering. If they have Zen, for example, as so many people seem to think, it genuinely makes Scorpio what Microsoft's PR suggests - a juggernaut that will thrash the PS4 Pro. So why wouldn't they say?

I think it's pretty likely that they actually are using Jaguar, and aren't saying because, for now, most people are assuming they have something better. It's the most typical PR strategy in the world: hide your weaknesses, allow people to fill in the blanks with something better, and shout about your strengths.

 

[brunomartynhak]

You'll see improvements if you look at the two systems running the same game side to side. But it's not some huge game changer on the same level as simply playing the ps4 pro version on a 4k set.

I can't believe people are trying to get others to spend $400 on a new system when they don't even have a 4k set to take any real advantage of the system

Oh yes it is! I "moved" from PS4 to a PC with a 480, still at 1080p with the same TV and it is night and day of difference. And this at 60 fps, imagine targeting 30 fps. There will be a clear difference.

 

[CyberPunked]

I don't think you can label them graphical sacrifices when you get a large graphical boost in return (going to 4K or near-4K resolution).

The level of visuals that could be achieved at 1080p are orders of magnitude greater than just improving the IQ. It's like 3x the power required to play games at 4K.

 

[theindieboy]

Personally I am a PS4 (launch day) and PSVR owner, i think the Pro PR has been terrible and not sold me at all! I have no intention of buying it any time soon.... but

• If my PS4 breaks will replace it with a Pro (if after release and can get hold of one for next day delivery)
• If my TV breaks i will buy a 4K Set and shortly after a PS4 Pro,
• In the more distant future like next christmas might upgrade to 4K move the other TV into another room and get a PS4 pro.

Thats where I am the only other thing would be that it greatly improves PSVR in big games like Res Evil, Fairpoint, Robinson etc but will be then it would likely be after Kinda Funny Live 3 as in the UK and thats my next big spend. Again there is a work project that might take me (and pay) to KFL3 and San Fran for 2 weeks at which point I would likely do the full 4K upgrade with PRO as would have a spare few K.

To be honest once they are in peoples hands expect there to be a lot of posative reactions as the press are certainly impressed with demos etc. This might sway me but need to see what it really does before my mind is made up.

 

[Daffy Duck]

PS4 Pro: But what does it do?

 

[nekkid]

PS4what?

Spoiler

It was always going to be a hard sell for them. I still maintain the Pro title is a bad choice, though.

 

[fantomena]

Yeah. That is why I decided to wait and purchase Scorpio...Too much of the unknown. Can't be spending $400.

Um...what do we know of Scoprio?

 

[Shadowhelper]

I'm just so ready to play games right now, and am impatient waiting for the PRO, but am this close, and my 1080 p tv is big enough, and I play close enough, that I think the supersampling will make a difference.

 

[Smidget]

With PSVR and the enhancements that might come out for games and the fact they need them... I might bite. Still hoping any sort of trade in comes up. Or maybe just gift my old PS4 to family...

 

[kyser73]

Um...what do we know of Scoprio?

It's gonna be HUGE! BIGLY HUGE!

And POWERFUL!!!

Full of the BEST PIXELS!!!

It'll be full of MAU.

 

[GinoFelino]

The level of visuals that could be achieved at 1080p are orders of magnitude greater than just improving the IQ. It's like 3x the power required to play games at 4K.

That's definitely true. But that's if games are built from the ground up to take advantage of that. In this case of a mid-gen refresh, the possible improvements at 1080p will be more limited than that. You still need to have basically the same game on an OG PS4.

Therefore, the improvement of a resolution bump will probably be more meaningful.

 

[family_guy]

With PSVR and the enhancements that might come out for games and the fact they need them... I might bite. Still hoping any sort of trade in comes up. Or maybe just gift my old PS4 to family...

There's always a trade in system. Go to Gamestop, Best Buy, etc. Not sure what you're expecting.

 

[Smidget]

There's always a trade in system. Go to Gamestop, Best Buy, etc. Not sure what you're expecting.

I'm just hoping for a little bonus or something for trading it in. Extra $50 towards PS PRO that kind of thing.

 

[Always-honest]

That's definitely true. But that's if games are built from the ground up to take advantage of that. In this case of a mid-gen refresh, the possible improvements at 1080p will be more limited than that. You still need to have basically the same game on an OG PS4.

Therefore, the improvement of a resolution bump will probably be more meaningful.

it will be the same games. But there can be LOTS of improvements in 1080P on the Pro.

 

[Nauren]

I find it extremely funny that I see posts about how people are skipping the Pro due to "lack of explanation" (even though its been explained ad nauseam) for the Scorpio, which hasn't been explained whatsoever...

 

[GinoFelino]

it will be the same games. But there can be LOTS of improvements in 1080P on the Pro.

Definitely. But not 'orders of magnitude greater than just improving the IQ'. I'm not downplaying the possible improvements at 1080p here.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Why do you think Microsoft are being so silent on this issue, incidentally?

They've specified the power of their GPU, they've told us how much memory bandwidth Scorpio will have, but they've been quiet on the CPU. Microsoft's entire Scorpio PR strategy is about promising something more powerful than what Sony is offering. If they have Zen, for example, as so many people seem to think, it genuinely makes Scorpio what Microsoft's PR suggests - a juggernaut that will thrash the PS4 Pro. So why wouldn't they say?

I think it's pretty likely that they actually are using Jaguar, and aren't saying because, for now, most people are assuming they have something better. It's the most typical PR strategy in the world: hide your weaknesses, allow people to fill in the blanks with something better, and shout about your strengths.

I think the fact that Phil has been playing up "true 4K" and "highest quality pixels" as the main selling point so far is pretty telling. He hasn't said a thing about the CPU, and that's because unfortunately, Zen in a console form factor with lower power draw won't be ready by that time and is not even out on the market commercially in any form as of right this second.

 

[Harlock]

Scorpio will have similar problems if the extra power is focused on boosting 4k res rather than more effects or framerate.

 

[Always-honest]

Definitely. But not 'orders of magnitude greater than just improving the IQ'. I'm not downplaying the possible improvements at 1080p here.

You mean.... What exactly? It's never going to be another game... But cleaner, better textures, better shadows, better effects, more vegetation, more particles, better AA, better drawdistance, etc. What more CAN you expect?

 

[family_guy]

I find it extremely funny that I see posts about how people are skipping the Pro due to "lack of explanation" (even though its been explained ad nauseam) for the Scorpio, which hasn't been explained whatsoever...

Yeah. I wonder if its just stealth corporate shilling. Seems like some people are being purposely obtuse.

 

[BradleyLove]

The Pro is capable of PS4-level graphics at near 4K resolution. Scorpio, based on what we know, will be capable of XB1-level graphics at native 4K.

Neither machine will be doing "ultra" at 4K native. Both machines will be tied to their OG versions too. So I don't see why Scorpio is getting a free pass in some of these threads; it'll be in the same boat as the Pro.

In both cases, the onus is on the developers to make use of the extra power, so asking Sony/MS to clarify the benefits is redundant; they can't tell us what EA are going to do with the extra grunt.

 

[ThirdEye]

It's like you are between choosing iPhone 7 or 6s, for most people it's a no brainer to purchase 7 over 6s though 6s is perfectly fine as a mobile phone. Anyway 100$ diff is nothing for new owners who don't own PS4.

 

[kikonawa]

Um...what do we know of Scoprio?

Leave it. Just fanboy talk.

 

[Theman2k]

it will be the same games. But there can be LOTS of improvements in 1080P on the Pro.

I just wish Sony would show it to us in a more meaningful way.
Its two weeks away, and apart from a single Paragon comparison screenshot we didn't get to see anything else.
The 4K and HDR prospect is well understood by now, but for the majority of HDTV owners we yet to see these meaningful changes, only heard of the potential, but haven't actually seen it.

Two weeks before launch I would've expected the internet to be full of PS4 PRO videos and screenshots showcasing it's abilities in a visual way.

 

[Always-honest]

I just wish Sony would show it to us in a more meaningful way.
Its two weeks away, and apart from a single Paragon comparison screenshot we didn't get to see anything else.
The 4K and HDR prospect is well understood by now, but for the majority of HDTV owners we yet to see these meaningful changes, only heard of the potential, but haven't actually seen it.

Two weeks before launch I would've expected the internet to be full of PS4 PRO videos and screenshots showcasing it's abilities in a visual way.

They have done a small bit but most will come from devs.
I'm sure Sony will be showing more closer to release.

 

[Ozorov]

I just wish Sony would show it to us in a more meaningful way.
Its two weeks away, and apart from a single Paragon comparison screenshot we didn't get to see anything else.
The 4K and HDR prospect is well understood by now, but for the majority of HDTV owners we yet to see these meaningful changes, only heard of the potential, but haven't actually seen it.

Two weeks before launch I would've expected the internet to be full of PS4 PRO videos and screenshots showcasing it's abilities in a visual way.

They're hosting a Pro-event in London next week for the press. Maybe we'll get more information next week and forwards then.

 

[jon bones]

It basically pushed me away from the Sony ecosystem and made a PC.

Could have had a VR + Pro if Sony played their cards better.

 

[gogogow]

Aren't PS4 Pro games a gamble for consumers? You might or might not get enhanced graphics.

The only thing devs needs to do are make the game compatible with OG PS4 and Pro.
But it can run games at 1080p resolution on Pro? Or is using the checkboard method mandatory?
Are devs forced to enhance the graphics?
Can devs just up the AF and say, there's the enhanced graphics for the Pro?

I have read the PS4 Pro ultimate FAQ back in September, but nothing was said other than the Pro can support higher resolutions and HDR in terms of graphics. I haven't really followed Pro news all that close, since I don't have much interest in it. I already have a OG PS4 and a gaming PC.

 

[kyser73]

I just wish Sony would show it to us in a more meaningful way.
Its two weeks away, and apart from a single Paragon comparison screenshot we didn't get to see anything else.
The 4K and HDR prospect is well understood by now, but for the majority of HDTV owners we yet to see these meaningful changes, only heard of the potential, but haven't actually seen it.

Two weeks before launch I would've expected the internet to be full of PS4 PRO videos and screenshots showcasing it's abilities in a visual way.

The internet news cycle won't hold a story that long. Look at PSVR - two intense bursts of impressions, reviews & PR + advertising in the 12 days prior to launch, each burst got 1-2 days saturation coverage, then the lead stories changed, sites moved into the next major story.

Sustaining 2 weeks of that level of coverage would be insanely expensive and wouldn't be as impactful as the message would be spread too thin over that time - articles would be halfway down the page, instead of having 4 or 5 in the new news places, each extolling a different aspect of the sales story.