Because you cannot use NPD as evidence of Xbox getting a big boost in Europe.
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PS4 Pro Won't Support 4k BluRay
- Thread starter blastprocessor
- Start date
Because you cannot use NPD as evidence of Xbox getting a big boost in Europe.
The upscaler in that TV is asbolutely on par with the pro, it's most likely the same exact tech.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
I don't believe this. These are the people who put a BluRay on PS3 launch.
It was also $700 at launch 💀💀💀
you are saying this for consumer who follow somewhat gaming news(casuals),okay.
so tell me Apart from DF analysis which only core gamers follow, how will they know
"games need to be patched"
"Some patched games play worse"
"Not quite native 4K games"
" faster load times, higher framerate"
i think you are fumbling in your analysis if you think casual consumer know about these points out of the gate.
It was 600. And that's kind of irrelevant though because adding a 4k blu ray drive wouldn't cost anywhere near as much.
There were numbers going around way back in this thread that adding uhd drive to the xbox one s cost about 15 dollars for parts+licensing.
Movalpolos
Banned
Not happening. No UHD player is not a deal breaker. How would that somehow change for Scorpio? Nice "concern" though.
gamerforever
Banned
Not bothered about ultra hd blu rays, but how can we watch 4k movies other than netflix etc? Can they be played off usb?
Even if it can, there is no way to put a 4k movie onto a usb drive, unless you illegally download netflix rips, but that would be pretty pointless.
Also, you can play 4k movies off of usb thru the tvs usb port anyway. So it doesn't really matter. Again though, all that's available is 4k hdr store demos and a handful of youtube videos.
BradleyLove
Member
Not sure why you think my post was US centric just because of a single reference to NPD? Sony's best ever BF was WORLDWIDE.
So, yeah, what narrative? Oh, you mean FACTS?
Pssh... you can prove anything with facts!
Don't forget the US market is bigger than all other markets combined!
<<<<<<<This is an actual serious assertion one of the MS fanboys was making a couple of days ago. Some of these cats are losing their goddamn minds.
4k has that HDCP 2.2 copy protection so i really doubt you could play 4k content from a USB. Even if you did, the size of them is pretty big. I like the idea of a player so i don't compromise quality when watching a movie. but i also like streaming 4k through Netflix and Amazon. Still waiting for HBO to get their act together and start doing 4k.
More about HDCP 2.2
EDIT: i also saw some people listing the pros of the pro and the xb1s. I would add to the xb1s the BC. Its straight up legit. No hassle, no paying extra through PS Now. If you owned the digital copy and its in the list you can play it, and the library of games it supports is pretty high. Its awesome. I really wish my ps3 digital library was available to me on the PS4.
family_guy
Member
You can play 4k content via USB. HDCP 2.2 doesn't block it based on the delivery mechanism. They encode protections into the video content just like HDR is encoded. Your device having HDCP 2.2 is essentially the DRM unlock key.
boredandlazy
Member
The Artisan
Member
So virtually no fuckin difference as having the regular Ps4 in terms of movies.
Well mazehaze if anything this makes me smh even more at the fact that the pro doesn't have 4K blu Ray
Yeah as far as tv and movies go, pro offers no advantages there.
It's strictly for games with a patch to run upscaled from 1440ish and occasionally natively at 4k and some slight framerate improvements on some 1080p games.
And just like with downsampling for games makes them look better, you'd even see an improved IQ from 4k movies on your current 1080p set. That's why I was looking forward to the PS4K (as it was being called before); for it to work as the first step and a catalyst to finally get me looking at improving the whole audio/video pipeline for the ever improving and streamlined 4k experience.
But what ended up happening is Sony managed to get me to start looking at the Xbone S. I think we can all agree that this cannot be -in any way- what they intended when they decided not no include a UHDBR drive. It is in this sense that it was a really stupid/shortsighted decision on their part.
Someone else mentioned it but I fully expect them to come out with a HW revision which includes the part down the road. They'll point to economies of scale and other stuff to sugar-coat it and minimize fan backlash (@ yet another HW revision), but it'll come.
But what ended up happening is Sony managed to get me to start looking at the Xbone S. I think we can all agree that this cannot be -in any way- what they intended when they decided not no include a UHDBR drive. It is in this sense that it was a really stupid/shortsighted decision on their part.
Someone else mentioned it but I fully expect them to come out with a HW revision which includes the part down the road. They'll point to economies of scale and other stuff to sugar-coat it and minimize fan backlash (@ yet another HW revision), but it'll come.
just for laughs, id love to see some part#'s to verify that statement
weird, because very few games actually run at that res...but don't let any facts get in the way of your agenda
I mean, Uncharted 4 does.
and what else?
Theonik
Member
Even more importantly, Microsoft doesn't even advertise the 360S as being more powerful and infact denies there is a significant improvement.
Most people are not going to look DF to find out they might get 3 more FPS on COD or something.
dragonyeuw
Member
I was all set to sell my vanilla Ps4 today for $175....then I realized that at current pricing, I'd need to spend another $225 to get the Pro model. There's been some Xbox One S deals going on in that range, and that's about what I expect the switch to cost give or take $25-50. Can't justify practically the cost of another system for 'upgraded' performance when I'm actually pretty content with the OG PS4. Maybe my eyes aren't very discerning, and maybe I'm trying to justify to myself why I backed out, but I don't think it's 'that' important based on what I said above. So, back to the drawing board I guess....
shouamabane
Member
It was $500 and it was a deal.
Ninja Scooter
Member
$15 x potentially tens of millions of units sold is not an insignificant cost, especially if they don't feel it's going to create enough additional appeal from consumers to offset this cost.
Unless we'll take this conversation by comparing quantity, it's fair to say that at the very least, Uncharted 4 is a pretty huge game. It's moot, though. I don't really believe the majority of Pro buyers will be able to tell the difference.
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
And yet Microsoft can put a UHD Blu-Ray player in the Xbox One S at $250. Where are you going with this?
Literally not even one part of this paragraph is true. In no way against is HDCP 2.2 a 'DRM unlock key' or any analogous thing.
(Okay, there are methods of protecting 4K content on a special USB stick but they would not involve HDCP 2.2 at all. And nobody has shipped a supporting device.)
wouldn't the typical Pro buyer be exactly the person that would notice the difference?
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
It's not $15 per unit. Subtract the cost of the drive they already have in there. And I'm not even sure what kind of royalty fees Sony would actually have to pay for their own standard, so probably even cheaper. They're being flat out cheap.
Rodney McKay
Member
I probably would have paid the extra for the PS4 Pro if it had 4K bluray support. I was right on the edge of getting the Pro over the Slim (I even had the Pro sitting in my cart on Amazon on Black Friday), but without 4K bluray support I just didn't feel like it was future proof enough to justify the higher price tag.
I ended up getting the Uncharted 4 PS4 Slim bundle for $212 and I've been very happy with it. Stuff like Ratchet & Clank looks amazing and I don't even notice the jaggies that comparison shots and videos showed the non-Pro systems having in the game. I'm sure I'd have liked the framerate bump some games are getting, but when I'm actually playing a game on my Slim I'm never actually thinking about that unless it gets really bad.
I ended up getting the Uncharted 4 PS4 Slim bundle for $212 and I've been very happy with it. Stuff like Ratchet & Clank looks amazing and I don't even notice the jaggies that comparison shots and videos showed the non-Pro systems having in the game. I'm sure I'd have liked the framerate bump some games are getting, but when I'm actually playing a game on my Slim I'm never actually thinking about that unless it gets really bad.
Celcius
°Temp. member
Even if the UHD drive would have cost them an extra $15, I think they should have raised the price by $15 instead of focusing on a $400 price point so much. There's already a system for budget conscious buyers - the slim. If you're spending $400, I would hope an extra $15 doesn't break the bank.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The PS4 Pro is still a mass market device, and you'd be surprised how important things like $399 price points are in terms of general consumer perception.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
The main difference for movies is that you can use streaming services that offer 4K. For Bluray, there's no difference. Well, I didn't check yet, maybe the drive is not as noisy when playing BRDs as the PS4 drive is.
For me, the main draw of Pro are absolutely games. A lot of the updated games look really substantially better (don't listen to the "1440-ish" nonsense).
family_guy
Member
I've connected a USB stick with 4k HDR content on it and it played completely fine on my KS8000 so I'm not wrong there.
I'm going to try to close this thread. The decision to not include UHD Blu Ray on PS4 Pro was solely for compatibility- with existing and future PS4 games/software. It wasn't to cut cost, that they didn't believe in the platform, etc. It was one less component to worry about when making sure all games worked across all systems. I know the argument can be made about just matching drive speeds, the games save to the hard drive, or that it shouldn't have an affect at all. But it is one less big component to worry about if a game/software did not play correctly. Does it suck, sure. It was, however, not a dumb choice on their end or an oversight. It's the same drive that is in the PS4. It also adds another key feature to promote future PS5 purchases.
Also the UHD format is not entirely set, in the way that Blu Ray saw a lot of changes in its early years, so much so they re-released newer versions of older Blu Ray titles. Think of the updates 300 saw with video and audio. Also to look out for future 4K TV purchases, it is still better to wait for all current standards to get out and settle. We can expect technologies like FreeSync to move into TV's which would make for a major improvement, HDMI 2.1 which will see big changes for HDR, also TV's with higher nits to display a broader range of colors. If requested I can explain why purchasing current OLED tv's is a bad move.
Can we move on.
Also the UHD format is not entirely set, in the way that Blu Ray saw a lot of changes in its early years, so much so they re-released newer versions of older Blu Ray titles. Think of the updates 300 saw with video and audio. Also to look out for future 4K TV purchases, it is still better to wait for all current standards to get out and settle. We can expect technologies like FreeSync to move into TV's which would make for a major improvement, HDMI 2.1 which will see big changes for HDR, also TV's with higher nits to display a broader range of colors. If requested I can explain why purchasing current OLED tv's is a bad move.
Can we move on.
Totally agree. It's a premium console, with a premium price tag, for the premium market. I'll never understand how the $250 Xbone S has a UHD player but the $400 Pro doesn't.
I would've bought one for $420.
Notice I said 1440pISH. I'm obviously referring to all the sub 4k games that are upscaled. Not a knock, they look great, but my point still stands.
And agenda? I have no agenda, I love Sony and love my ps4.
Also if anyone thinks the upscaling of a ps4 pro of 1080p blu rays is in any way better than the upscaling of high end 4k tvs, I'm sorry but you are misinformed.
Not protected content.
Naw, it was one of those arrogant Sony misfires again. Look at their spun off division for example, aka home entertainment. They didn't release a 4K/UHD blu-ray player this year despite being one of, if not the best seller of Blu-Ray players because they decided, or overestimated that people only want to stream movies anymore. Truth is in my experience, retail shop employees and articles online have done a more than adequate job at explaining the quality differences between streaming and disc based media. They also did a good job explaining how much data is used and what speeds are needed to stream in quality 4K. People have issues streaming 1080p at times now even. And I'd wager more people than expected when basically being forced into buying a 4K set now due to TV manufacturers, marketing, the media, and even stores like Wal-Mart and Sam's Club having 4K sets will look into how to get the most out of their new TV.
Before someone tries to debunk me, keep in mind Sony said before "No 4K players from us, we're all in with 'Ultra' and that's how it's going to be because that's what people want." What is coming out early this coming year now from Sony? 4K blu-ray players.
They made a choice on their "forward thinking" with the benefit of saving a buck on their hardware and chose wrong where as MS made the better choice. Sony done screwed up.
Yeah. It's true 4k movies from a hdd or usb drive would work fine. Problem is nobody offers that. So the only option is 4k blu ray.
Edit: Fandango now offers that, but you have to buy their expensive proprietary hdd to download movies to, for obvious reasons.
A UHD drive would not do anything with the games' compatibility.
Something about Jimmy Kimmel and iPhone revisions comes to mind.
Wasn't it someone on GAF that had their console set to output 720 not realising it since last generation?
especially this gen where everything is just installed to the HDD anyway
Those segments are terrible and prove nothing
family_guy
Member
The person I originally quoted questioned whether you could get 4K content through USB. That's why I responded.
family_guy
Member
There's also Sony's media player. FMP-X10. You download content from their store to the player's 1TB hard drive.
in general I agree, people are idiots, we're talking specifically about PS4 Pro buyers though
I think you can appreciate the trend with expensive equipment and uninformed buyers. But I think I should clarify. I'm going saying 1080 -> 4K is hard to see for these people, but 1440p to 4K (or 1800p).
anothertech
Member
Actually, what they are seeing when they shop for a console is:
Xbox One S
$429 (first hit on Amazon)
Same power as Xbone
Plays 4K bluray media
PS4 Pro
$399 (first hit on Amazon)
4x the power as XboneS
Plays 4K streaming media
Literally, that is what they are seeing when they look for a console right now.
Out of all my friends, I know of 2 people that still use DVD/BR disk media. My parents, and my grandparents. Even as anecdotal as it is, I don't see this message hurting the PS4 momentum in any way shape or form.
It doesn't though because it depends on the stream and bluray. A lot of (big majority) of non-4k/1080p Blu-rays are encoded with the old h264/AVC and unlike a stream you are stuck with that encoding forever on disc. 4k Streams are now h265/HEVC, VP9 etc that offers better efficiency i.e. better quality at a given bitrate and unlike a Blu-ray the encoding on a stream can get even better as time passes.
As for the player I believe you are right it was an upscaled regular one.
Funny you mention this. As I was at BB the other day, I saw people buying like 10 Xbox's I guess they are a hot item at this point.