qa_engineer
Member
The thread that keeps on threading.
Have we learned anything new?
Have we learned anything new?
PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
I'm not sure if this will happen but the new over the air signals are suppose to feature PPV & IPTV like features in a few years so maybe Sony can make Vue a part of the OTA network.
Like I said right now it's an open battlefield the local stations , cable & satellite all are in a transitional period right now & if Sony is serious about Vue they can make some big moves while others are not fully prepared.
Marty Chinn
Member
I don't think that's going to work with Sony. OTA is highly regulated due to limited bandwidth and Sony doesn't have the infrastructure or capability to even get into there. That's pie in the sky dreaming; it's not going to happen.
You are not going to get a lot of content from 4K streaming at all. There are only few services offering 4K content and are very expensive, like Sony's Ultra movie service.
Since Netflix takes a while to get latest movies, I dont see them having a lot of 4K movies for quite a while.
So UHD discs will likely be the best way for owners to experience new content.
Right now, BD discs for big releases (not family/comedies) are around 50%-55% marketshare.
As to the 4K TVs, they have been mainstream for a while now.
Sony is offering digital downloads that are pretty close to UHD BD bitrates. And yes it's expensive as it's purchase only.
Other services such as VUDU (and Amazon is beginning to) offer UHD content including rentals for first run titles. Obviously lower bitrate, but still well above their 1080p streams. These libraries should increase pretty quickly as Ultra HD BD's come out.
boredandlazy
Member
That MisterXmedia has infiltrated the Sony ranks.
Omnistalgic
Member
nope...
Oh, a site said some higher ups at Sony don't know what the device is. So..ummm..yeah
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
If Sega could get a cable channel in 1994 for it's demos & so on I'm sure Sony can get some local broadcast channels for transmitting Vue when they update to ATSC 3.0
Marty Chinn
Member
Partnering with a cable company for a single channel and working with OTA to broadcast a whole service are completely two different beasts. They're not even in the same ballpark.
So glad I live in the UK.
pixelation
Member
ROFL!!!
I eagerly await looking back at the dual gpu and "uprender" insanity.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
It provides more reason for someone to buy into 4K which Sony want to also sell TVs, movies and services in.
Adding games into the mix will help attract a larger audience and get people to upgrade sooner than later whilst also helping support there other divisions.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Marty Chinn
Member
That's not what you were arguing. You said this was 4Ks year. I'm not saying there aren't reasons for Sony to do this and things to be gained for them, but Sony's interests and gains doesn't mean that this is the year for the entire 4K market. It also doesn't mean that Sony needs to release it this year. Sony can release it next year and still try to benefit from it. Sony certainly can try to get their slice of the pie; the pie just isn't going to be very big.
I was looking for a polite way to say something along these lines, but I have to give you credit for not flinching. There has been no new information and lots of wild speculation presented as if it is concrete evidence.
I think the safe assumption at this point is no new thread means no new information.
33% for all releases, 50%-60% for Top 10 releases. Physical of course including those Wal-Mart sales..
As you can see by the chart, 4K TV purchases are jumping big. Most if not all profits of TV manufacturers are now in 4K. Early last year Sony said around 10% of their sales but 20% of their revenues is 4k... it probably tripled by now.
People are obviously buying 4k TVs and they will buy UHD's as well.
You have some weird notion that Blu-ray does not sell anything. While people are streaming a lot, it does not mean they are still not buying BD's. And 4K is also big plus for physical format since it requires a lot more bandwith than HD and simply is a lot more available.
Anyway, here is top selling DVD's vs BD's. As you can see, top selling BD is 2x revenue of top selling DVD. And it is pretty considerably revenue - Jurassic Park made $85m in BD revenues last year and $31m in DVD.
BD sales 2015
http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/bluray-sales/2015
DVD sales 2015
http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/dvd-sales/2015
You are not going to get a lot of content from 4K streaming at all. There are only few services offering 4K content and are very expensive, like Sony's Ultra movie service.
Since Netflix takes a while to get latest movies, I dont see them having a lot of 4K movies for quite a while.
So UHD discs will likely be the best way for owners to experience new content.
Right now, BD discs for big releases (not family/comedies) are around 50%-55% marketshare.
As to the 4K TVs, they have been mainstream for a while now.
There is actually a fair bit of 4k content and many broadcast companies are starting to show channels in 4k? Amazon Prime currently offers more 4k streaming content than any other provider so far. Netflix catalog grows monthly and over 100 UHD releases will be available before June with more coming in waves monthly... The content at this point is actually feasible and is growing much faster than 1080p and its also cheaper than bluray was at the same point in its lifecycle and is coming down. Top end 4k sets are already several grand less than equivalent 1080p sets in the same time period as well(when I say top end I mean the 40$k+ sets) And many are available now sub 1000$ some are even available in the 500$ range.
But personally I think streaming is a bad solution with more and more ISP giving data caps to consumers and 4k movies being so far int he 12-15gb range to stream being even up to the 30gb range. At 30gb for me with a 300GB data cap that would be 10 movies...
But at the starting prices of 4k I can easily see the 1080p marketshare adopting eventually. At the very least I see it overtaking 1080p in about half the time frame of 1080p taking over standard definition.
Edit: Idk why but I was initially reading this a contradictory post but reading the post above this I see we agree. NM then lol guess its just reiteration.
Marty Chinn
Member
You're failing to see the forest for the trees. TV sales are down year over year. Physical disc sales are down year over year. Blu Ray sales never even came close to DVD sales in their prime. Streaming viewing is increasing faster year over year. You see a growth in 4K sets being sold but that's only because they're phasing in 4K and phasing out 2K. Of course you're going to see more 4K sets sold because they become the primary option available. It's not simply for the sake of 4K; they're doing it to buy a new TV. It's also widely accepted that UHD is going to have a smaller user base than BR and will be more of a niche format. You want to use data, but the data points to what I'm saying.
No where did I ever say or imply BR doesn't sell. I said it sells less. UHD is expected to sell even less. People don't care about the quality. They care way more about the convenience. If they had truly cared, BR would have sold better. I say this as someone who is all in on physical discs. I'm going to be all in on UHD and I'm likely to buy several UHDs even before I have a 4K set to fully take advantage of them. I wish everyone would push more towards physical discs over digital streaming and digital sales, but I just know that the reality is not there.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
And you can't have a year of 4K without the content. Which as I had linked before has just started, first with Sonys movie service and recently with the first 4K Blu-rays hitting the market and next up the games.
Marty Chinn
Member
There isn't going to be a lot of content this year though. It's going to trickle in slowly during this year. The current pricing isn't going to help either.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
By 'Year of 4K' I mean it is just the kickoff, not that it'll take over Blu-ray in terms of sales.
Marty Chinn
Member
I never implied it was going to take over in terms of sales. I'm just saying it's not going to be any accelerated growth. It's just going to be another year of gradual growth. I wouldn't even call this the kick off year. 4K sets have been around for awhile. Streaming 4K content has been awhile and is currently the direction people are moving towards to get their content. Physical disc sales are in decline and it has nothing to do with 4K. UHD coming out doesn't somehow kick start something. With disc prices being $30 a pop, it's going to primarily be enthusiasts rather than mass market and that's even with a PS4K system out there making it easier to swallow the high cost of the player. You said it had to be this year since this is 4Ks year. There's nothing about this year that makes it special and nothing about this year that makes it that Sony has to release a 4K player this year otherwise they're screwed. The slow adoption rate gives Sony time to release it this year or next year. Heck, this year is almost a third over and the release list looks sparse over the next couple of months.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
LOL no. This is absolutely false when looking at sales numbers.
Marty Chinn lays it out pretty well in a post above.
MasterOfNone
Member
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potatohead
Member
1080p had extremely slow uptake.
In no small part due to the extremely high costs before 2008-ish.
Full HD was available for many, many years before it hit anywhere close to 50% penetration in the US.
Marty Chinn
Member
Ya, HDR definitely is probably more noticeable than 4K, but I still think unless you show someone side by side, it might not be understood by the average person.
720p/1080i/1080p went through a lot more issues about setting standards though and took a lot longer to get settled. The way that a lot of early adopters got screwed due to the lack of HDCP alone was a major issue. So there was a lot more growing pains there than what's going on with 4K. It wasn't simply price alone. Even still, the standards weren't set for 4K until the end of last year and those are only starting to trickle out by the end of the year. Still, you weren't really hosed like you were with HDCP. So I think the adoption rate will be quicker, but that's less to do about 4K and more about the smoother transition to 4K sets replacing 2K sets. Regardless, it's still looking like the total number of sets is in decline still. So the quicker adoption rate doesn't really mean much in terms of 4K.
These cable & satellite companies go through a lot more to feed you their service so if Sony could get their service to you over the air waves with you only needing a ATSC 3.0 receiver (TV ,STB or Phone) it will be worth the trouble of getting local transmitters when the other stations get their upgrades.
New GPU, new CPU, new RAM configuration, UHD Bluray drive and 100BD GB disks?
That sounds like a huge investment they would only do for a PS5 potentially.
So what happens to the 50GB standard bluray disks used now? They get replaced? But then the PS4 can't read 100GB UHD discs...so would they technically have two sections for games both bluray and UHD blu ray
That sounds like a huge investment they would only do for a PS5 potentially.
So what happens to the 50GB standard bluray disks used now? They get replaced? But then the PS4 can't read 100GB UHD discs...so would they technically have two sections for games both bluray and UHD blu ray
MasterOfNone
Member
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Marty Chinn
Member
I didn't say the cable and satellite companies don't have a lot of infrastructure; they do. They have a ton which is why it's so hard for someone new to come in. Sony doesn't have the infrastructure or even close to the capability to go that route. OTA bandwidth is highly regulated. Sony is going to have to get the rights to enough spectrum in order to broadcast over a hundred channels even when factoring in that ATSC 3.0 is more bandwidth efficient and does give the ability to have multiple channels within a certain spectrum. OTA is not going to happen for something that big because Sony isn't even close to being in a position to do it. They don't have the spectrum requirements, they don't have the transmission capability, and honestly, financially it's not going to make any sense for them to go this way. PlayStation Vue is going OTA is just something that is not going to happen; it's not feasible let alone worth it financially.
ecosse_011172
Banned
Not in the Europe that I love in....
CosmicQueso
Member
CloudyTuba
Member
Yeah baby.
Why would they need the spectrum to broadcast 100 channels when PlayStation Vue is internet based & I'm only talking about being able to send the data over the air like they send over the internet? ATSC 3.0 will allow subscription services like PlayStation Vue
Marty Chinn
Member
Why would they need the spectrum to broadcast 100 channels when PlayStation Vue is internet based & I'm only talking about being able to send the data over the air like they send over the internet? ATSC 3.0 will allow subscription services like PlayStation Vue
http://atsc.org/newsletter/atsc-3-0-where-we-stand/
You're misunderstanding what that means. It simply means you'll be able to interact with the content that is being broadcast. It doesn't mean you're going to be able to request one of over a hundred channels using that spectrum and everyone will be able to pick their own unique channel too.
That's because France, Great Britain and Austria opted to sell their viewers new DVB-T2 receivers and then do it again a year or two later.
The real DVB-T2 will be HEVC based unlike your networks jumping the gun recycling h.264 and I fully expect your countries to upgrade to the better codec as well. And then I figure many people will have bought receivers that went from brand new to obsolete in a very short time. Correct me if I am missing something there.
I'm talking about being able to have subscription services. why wouldn't PlayStation Vue be able to be one of them services?
potatohead
Member
Agree.
I personally expect 4K adoption to be faster for those reasons. Not "fast", but faster.
My guess is also that the maturity of HD displays is much higher than when we were moving from CRT primarily to flatscreens. There's so much invested into advancing these flatscreen technologies now, and so much to build on that wasn't there before.
Marty Chinn
Member
Because a subscription service would mean a single channel or a few channels like HBO. It wouldn't mean a 100+ channel service. You would need the spectrum assigned to you that has enough capacity to carry 100+ channels in order to offer PS Vue OTA. Plus even with spec allowing such a possibility you still have to deal with the FCC and the distribution of spectrum for carrying OTA signals. Just because the tech allows it doesn't mean it will come to light in reality.
Yep, totally agree. A lot of the groundwork for 4K was established with 2K. Hell I still think the fact that we had three HD resolutions in itself was a big screw up. It's amazing it actually settled down and didn't blow up. I can only imagine how many people were annoyed when they found out their 720p/1080i set was a bit obsolete when 1080p came out. Hell I was one of those people.
Actually 4k uptake is outpacing 1080p. The HD transition was a mess.
Ultra HD BluRay support would literally be the least expensive of the rumored improvements. Actually it would effectively be free.
Sony stands to gain revenue from its success. No reason to not support it along with Vue and their UHD digital download service. Why put all your eggs in one basket? Especially when you've already made the investment?
jeff_rigby
Banned
ATSC 3 is a game changer allowing 4 times as many local Antenna TV channels. The assumption is that most TV channels will still be delivered as lower resolution 720P to 1080P rather than 4K. Sony already has a Network called Get TV in the US. I think Playstation Vue will eventually be a service for those few channels in addition to Antenna TV service.
In 2-4 years but starting with Vidipath Cable TV, I GUESS late this year, you have a Gateway box from cable and eventually for Antenna TV. The Gateway box is also a DVR that contains the tuners and serves IPTV to the home network as a DLNA server. Nasne sold only in Japan is a precursor to this and when it was released in 2012 one reviewer stated it showed the Sony future plans for Media in the home.
In 2-4 years Cable TV is transitioning to all IPTV from Cable modems and at that point we eliminate the Cable TV DVR in the home. DVR would be in the cloud or customer owned. TV delivery models are then:
1) ALL Cable TV served via a cable modem
2) Hybrid Antenna TV with Gateway DVR box and selected Cable TV or services like Playstation Vue
3) ALL Antenna TV
Option 2 should be very popular and all options have Internet served from a Cable Modem. Key here is that you need a Smart TV or STB (read XB1, PS4, PC or UHD Blu-ray player) with older 1080P TVs.
Or as I believe just a firmware update to Launch Consoles which would be free. Sony and Microsoft want to be in homes as Game Consoles and Media Hubs for ATSC 3 and Vidipath. The Playready ND streaming DRM mentioned by Microsoft in Game Consoles is to serve DVR and UHD Blu-ray digital bridge to other Vidipath clients in the home.Raistlin said:
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
LOL
His current website logo.
The Incredible Muffin
Member
Not sure I understand the negativity.
Im surprised consoles have not been doing this for ages... I mean phones get away with it and they cost a lot more. (for even less meaningful upgrades)
What..its a problem them people that pay more get better performance? If you're a PC gamer you are used to this from the start.
I'm happy to see that console manufacturers are not hamstringing developers anymore with outdated console specs.
That being said, I cant see myself buying one anytime soon.
Im surprised consoles have not been doing this for ages... I mean phones get away with it and they cost a lot more. (for even less meaningful upgrades)
What..its a problem them people that pay more get better performance? If you're a PC gamer you are used to this from the start.
I'm happy to see that console manufacturers are not hamstringing developers anymore with outdated console specs.
That being said, I cant see myself buying one anytime soon.
Herb Alpert
Banned
His current website logo.
Lol
MasterOfNone
Member
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Cthulhu_Steev
Member
You don't need to upgrade an entire PC at one time, and phones are subsidised. Not sure how many more time this needs repeating, but hey.
You can't compare those two devices. The player uses a dedicated SoC that can do that and nothing much else. This SoC is currently rare and expensive, but it will become a trivial cost factor soon.
The PS4(K) has a completely different approach and would make use of its more general purpose hardware for that, which is why it needs much more electric power to do so. I don't know how much more expensive the advanced disc reading unit is, but I doubt it is much.
The PS4K wouldn't canibalize the player market just like the PS2 didn't with DVDs and the PS3 didn't with Blu-rays.