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[Gaiff]

Its not just chip cost, which is likely on a smaller node and therefore pricier

But its also memory,

Memory chips are a couple of bucks. 8GB GDDR6 chips dropped to a whopping $27 apiece last year. Sony went from 14Gbps to 18. That's fucking nothing. Probably less than $10. They plummeted last year.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/gddr6-vram-prices-plummet

additional SSD storage,

1TB to 2TB. Again, paltry. Sale prices of drives are just a couple of cents per gigabyte and that's sale prices, not even profits, let alone the discount Sony gets for volume manufacturing. As low as 5 cent per GB.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ssd-prices-falling-march-2023

Going from 825GB to 2TB wouldn't cost Sony more than another $70.

the research cost of RT and PSSR,

What research for RT lmao? PSSR, sure.

the software costs for patching existing games.

You mean the games developers will patch themselves? Or the 10 first-party games Sony will patch?

This is spread across a much smaller market so less economies of scale

All goes out the window when they removed the disc drive and are asking for $700. What you effectively get going from a DE PS5 Slim to a PS5 Pro is a larger GPU and a 2TB drive. This is NOT worth the $300 premium.

$100 margins on a $700 product are not “mad bank” btw

Sony was apparently breaking even with the PS5 months after its launch. Dunno the margin there, but they could be a lot more than this.

The pricing is awful. No way around this one.

 

[GrayChild]

Did anyone post this already?

 

[Jibran#one]

Is Microsoft arrogant also for releasing the Xbox series x 2tb for 599? You get a whole Lot power more for that extra 100 dollar with a ps5 pro of you ask me. A steam deck oled 1tb is a whopping 680 euro. And that thing is underpowered.

U can buy a 500 dollar one with a disc drive right ??
Is the pro stil worth it for almost 300 dollars more with a drive and a stand ?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

What research for RT lmao? PSSR, sure.

You think the RT cost wasn’t included with the bill from AMD? Uhhh

 

[Wastelander92]

Companies don't want to take loss on hardware anymore. Historically, they all did.

 

[hemo memo]

Considering what's insider the box, I tend to disagree. I'd have no problem spending 800-900-1000€ for a console provided it's a monster. Unfortunately, it's not the case here : same SSD, same CPU, slightly better GPU, what the heck costs 800€ here !?

Lack of competition.

 

[SlimySnake]

This quote should put all the conversation to bed. It ain't about arrogance, it's about the greed of current corporate leadership.

It's arrogance in that they think they can win the console war by charging people insane prices, making first party games multiplatform and still succeed.

 

[Fafalada]

This console should have been $599.99 MAX given the fact that it comes with a 2TB SSD.

But there already IS a $599 console with 2TB SSD and PS5 specs.
I agree it sucks - but why would the Pro cost the same?

 

[Vick]

It's 800 EUR here in Germany, which is 880 USD. Not sure how much the average joe earns in the US, but in my federal state those 800 EUR is 40% of the average monthly net salary (after tax and social insurance contributions). Not sure how Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, etc. think about this "regional" pricing.

It sucks! Bad.

And not just when it comes to gaming, on high end collectibles for instance we literally have to pay almost twice as much as what a US customer spends. And it actually looks like it's getting even worse each passing day somehow.

Sony fanboys working overtime! Even @Ass of Can Whooping has noped out of this one lol

You're probably top 5 most hardcore fanboys on this entire site.. have some self respect for once.

Math is hard, I know.

Just going by what Cerny said:

But I assume Cerny's wrong?

 

[Ebrietas]

And no one expects it to be.

I think a lot of people are expecting it to be in the same price range that Nintendo has been operating in for the whole existence. When they see a Switch 2 for $400+ it's going to come as a shock.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You mean the games developers will patch themselves? Or the 10 first-party games Sony will patch?

Is that not a cost?

Sony was apparently breaking even with the PS5 months after its launch. Dunno the margin there, but they could be a lot more than this.

Its 2024, Sony had to hike the ps5 price and cannot cut it

Its not 2020 anymore darling

 

[kiphalfton]

This is the age of inflation and limited parts. My video card cost more than the entire PS5 Pro with the drive.

What's your point. That shit is grossly overpriced too.

 

[Hohenheim]

The negative response here (and elsewhere on the net) seems to confirm that this is a product that kinda falls awkwardly between two groups:
The typical console gamers and the enthusiasts who want high-end products.

As a product this seems to be too expensive for the first group and not high end enough (and simply not needed) for the second group (the higher end pc gamers)
That could leave this thing in a weird spot.
That being said, there's probably lots of people who's not very vocal about it, but will get this and not make a fuss. It will probably sell quite good.

 

[64bitmodels]

Nintendo should have released that console 3 years ago already.

2021? How many times have you seen a console gen last 4 years? Especially for a 100m+ seller? Let them cook

They are releasing b-tier games, promoting an abundance of shite "cozy" games/farm games and mostly remasters and their eshop is an absolute mess. Let's not also mention how extremely litigious they are and how they treat anything in the most archaic way possible. We can't even stream their old soundtracks on Spotify

YES
THIS IS WHY WE LIKE NINTENDO
Microsoft and Sony don't release shit. They spend 5 years to work on a game and then we wait another 7. More games is always good. They are mostly remasters because it's the end of the gen and the spicy stuff is being saved for the new system reveal. But even then those remakes are more games than we have gotten from those other 2.

People have been begging for shorter games with worse graphics made by devs paid to work less for years and Nintendo, the only company delivering that, is also the one who is selling 140 million after years of consoles not even breaking the 120 million mark. "B-tier games" is a boon not a slight against them

 

[HogIsland]

Bingo for me on all except the games.
I'm satisfied with what they have done and leveraged with 3rd party this year. Thats also contingent on alot of announcements coming soon; cause if First party took a year- then i absolutely expect a strong 2025.
The Pro has been announced and all the cards are on the table before the holidays. Its time to see what all the heavy hitting devs got up their sleeves.

I was talking about the capability of the hardware, not the games. It shouldn't be true that launch-window games like Demon's Souls and Rift in Time are still showcase games for the system in year 4. Games that look like Alan Wake 2 and Wukong should be the norm, and Naughty Dog should already have something that feels like magic. Today was an admission that they're fine with PS5 becoming "choppy" at 30fps, and if you want better, you need to upgrade.

Spoiler

On games, PS5 is very light compared to prior gens, even if you like what they're doing. Betting all of 2023 on Spiderman 2. Not even having something for holiday 2024 is crazy. That Astro Bot is actually a really important exclusive instead of a pleasant surprise tells you where we're at.

 

[VictorVectors]

I just had a Thread closed.. it hosted this comparison:

Along with these questions:

Can "high end console gaming" ever be a thing?

Or should every machine within the Console realm be imperatively as affordable as possible to the masses?
Should the option of playing current generation games at 60fps with high resolution and pristine IQ, along with higher settings, remain an unattainable dream for every kind of individual willing to purchase a console, if it traslates into $699?

Apparently, the answer is yes.

The image on the right was deemed a catastrophic joke of misguided pricing and disconnected executive leadership on this board just yesterday.

PS5 Pro is DOUBLE the price of the PS4 Pro launch in EU.

These products will sit on shelves and those who wait rationally will be rewarded.

 

[Katajx]

I have to hand it to them that it was clever marketing. Thankfully for them this is aimed at some sort of enthusiast.

I think Sony is being cheeky and trying to use Apple economics here. Their BOM isn’t going to look like one of us purchasing these parts on our own, and the 2TB of storage looks like it’s there to try to soften the blow of the higher cost.

I’m not sure what sort of projections they have for this, but I can’t see it selling as much as the PS4 pro. I don’t expect to see much about the numbers for it this year, but I have a feeling it will do about like the PSVR2.

 

[StueyDuck]

2021? How many times have you seen a console gen last 4 years? Especially for a 100m+ seller? Let them cook

YES
THIS IS WHY WE LIKE NINTENDO
Microsoft and Sony don't release shit. They spend 5 years to work on a game and then we wait another 7. More games is always good. They are mostly remasters because it's the end of the gen and the spicy stuff is being saved for the new system reveal. But even then those remakes are more games than we have gotten from those other 2.

People have been begging for shorter games with worse graphics made by devs paid to work less for years and Nintendo, the only company delivering that, is also the one who is selling 140 million after years of consoles not even breaking the 120 million mark. "B-tier games" is a boon not a slight against them

Yeah definitely no console wars here.

Fine Nintendo are amazing, whatever makes you happy

 

[kiphalfton]

Wrong. It simply comes down to companies want to breakcrush the working man.

 

[Banjo64]

Damn. Same GPU and RAM is insane.

 

[John Wick]

This is my current plan. Do you think it means I shouldn't call it out as a shit value proposition for some reason?

So how do you expect them to build the Pro? How much is a PS5 or Series X retail price? It has double the storage which in itself is roughly £100 more. Bigger GPU, faster CPU and ram.

 

[adamsapple]

One topic is saying the price is fair.
One topic is saying the price is ridiculous.

 

[SlimySnake]

yeah, its not inflation or chip shortage. it's greed. Sony leadership has been infested with bean counters and Microsoft esque execs who just care about turning profit than actually running a console business like it should be run.

there was an article about their CFO and CEO a few months ago pointing out how they have zero interest in the products sony makes.

 

[Hudo]

800€ for a fucking console + 120€ for the disc drive is not "fairly priced". And when you consider that without the disc drive, you are essentially driven to Playstation's digital ecosystem, for which you are also supposed to pay regularly, I'd say it's priced quite maliciously.

 

[MostlyPeaceful]

But there already IS a $599 console with 2TB SSD and PS5 specs.
I agree it sucks - but why would the Pro cost the same?

Why have consoles not dropped in price in the last 4 years?

That’s what’s different about this generation and this tech sector in particular compared to literally anything else.

Consoles have always historically dropped in price. This generation they haven’t. Meanwhile everything else has in the last 4 years.

 

[Sephimoth]

Arrogant (and lazy) Sony has been back for a few years.
And Microsoft allowed them to get there by being clueless.

We need aggressive competition amongst them, for constant GOTY releases. I guess it'll take someone else like Apple to step into the console market now for that to happen.

 

[Kacho]

One topic is saying the price is fair.
One topic is saying the price is ridiculous.

When in doubt, look to the consensus across the information superhighway

 

[Kirkio]

I don't think the price is too bad personally, I like having the option to upgrade consoles every 3 or 4 years and that's plenty of time with the machine to justify the cost to me.

I'm going to need to see some new games announced before I upgrade though.

 

[Bernoulli]

2tb SSD alone is worth 50-100 more

 

[Senua]

You're probably top 5 most hardcore fanboys on this entire site.. have some self respect for once.

 

[Shifty1897]

Arrogant Sony has been around for years, at least since 2020.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I don’t want to hear about a chip shortage. That was primarily a 2020-2023 issue and has mostly been resolved by now

It’s not about shortages but about cost

Chip costs are astronomical right now in an AI fueled boom

 

[Xtib81]

It's 800 EUR here in Germany, which is 880 USD. Not sure how much the average joe earns in the US, but in my federal state those 800 EUR is 40% of the average monthly net salary (after tax and social insurance contributions). Not sure how Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, etc. think about this "regional" pricing.

The launch PS5 (disc) had the same USD price as EUR, which was 500USD/EUR. I don't know why they thought it's okay to charge 100EUR/180USD more here now.

At the end of the day it's an enthusiast's hardware and Nvidia proved that people are willing to spend huge amounts of money on hardwar (if provided with no other option than to not spend).

We ALWAYS get fucked in Europe and it's been like that for as long as I can remember. For the record, dont' Americans make way more money than Europeans on average ? Yet we constantly pay more for the same products, that's crazy.

 

[starfire1978]

Sony lost life long customer first stereo than TV and now PlayStation. Apple crowd doesn't want consoles.

 

[rodrigolfp]

But I assume Cerny's wrong?

He is drunk or talking about RT performance only.

 

[Fermbiz]

Gamers trying to justify the price right now

 

[tmlDan]

you need to factor in inflation globally and how it affected markets, not just the US. The consoles aren't solely made in the US and the parts dont inflate equally.

 

[Gaiff]

You think the RT cost wasn’t included with the bill from AMD? Uhhh

What freakin' rt cost my guy? This isn't how it works. AMD developed graphics solutions and Sony picked out parts to customize for them. They didn't charge Sony for "RT research." The GPU already had hardware-accelerated ray tracing that AMD developed in the past and pushed further. That's something AMD did for themselves and that Sony will use. It's part of the manufacturing cost for the APU. You can't separate them. You think they needed to research how to have car reflections in GT7?

Is that not a cost?

It's damn near irrelevant.

Its 2024, Sony had to hike the ps5 price and cannot cut it

No, they didn't. They readjusted the pricing in several regions because they were paying less than they should have been. It stayed the same in the US.

Its not 2020 anymore darling

Good thing those components I linked you dropped in price since then, right? The PS5 doesn't cost more to manufacture now than in 2020. It cost less. The PS5 Pro isn't a revolution over the PS5. It's almost identical with a bigger GPU and a bigger drive, neither which justify the $300 price premium.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

Thread title was changed? or merged into another thread?

 

[Doczu]

I sincerely hope the Pro will bomb with that price cause if it won't then prepare your asses for the same price range for their next console.
But people will probably defend that too.

 

[Bond007]

I was talking about the capability of the hardware, not the games. It shouldn't be true that launch-window games like Demon's Souls and Rift in Time are still showcase games for the system in year 4. Games that look like Alan Wake 2 and Wukong should be the norm, and Naughty Dog should already have something that feels like magic. Today was an admission that they're fine with PS5 becoming "choppy" at 30fps, and if you want better, you need to upgrade.

I cant disagree with ya. I agree with everything you said- how they couldn't forsee 2024 holiday being so empty on their end is crazy. Cant help but feel they had multiple delays on games we dont even know about.
I do however feel it was easy for them to showcase older games today. We will see the newer stuff get their time to shine soon.

Cant help but feel they gave us this info today- get it out of the way, the sticker shock and uproar.
New games would have been drowned out today.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

What freakin' rt cost my guy? This isn't how it works. AMD developed graphics solutions and Sony picked out parts to customize for them. They didn't charge Sony for "RT research." The GPU already had hardware-accelerated ray tracing that AMD developed in the past and pushed further. That's something AMD did for themselves and that Sony will use. It's part of the manufacturing cost for the APU. You can't separate them. You think they needed to research how to have car reflections in GT7?

That’s not how it works, the RT tech is apparently Sony’s worked in tandem with AMD to include on the GPU

And yes, that is a cost

It's damn near irrelevant.

Not really no

Good thing those components I linked you dropped in price since then, right? The PS5 doesn't cost more to manufacture now than in 2020.

Post the receipts please, main drivers of cost, the APU

 

[Pasta la Vista]

Oh ok this is like a merge of 3 threads now it seems, well this is messy.

 

[kiphalfton]

I sincerely hope the Pro will bomb with that price cause if it won't then prepare your asses for the same price range for their next console.
But people will probably defend that too.

Not just the next console, but price hikes across the board (i.e. Nintendo and Xbox will follow suit).

Nvidia did this, and AMD followed suit.

Apple did this, and Samsung, Google, etc. followed suit.

 

[AJUMP23]

D DoubleClutch your pearls when I tell you I think it overpriced in Europe and the US and Japan, but they have to do that to continue to justify $500 for the regular PS5.

 

[Zathalus]

If you buy the console and disc drive it comes to over $1000 in Europe. Funny stuff.

 

[64bitmodels]

If you buy the console and disc drive it comes to over $1000 in Europe. Funny stuff.

400 dollars. Ok.
500 dollars. A bit uptight

700 dollars, quite a bit for a console

1000 dollars. There really wouldn't be much of an excuse not to get a PC at that point.

 

[proandrad]

400 dollars. Ok.
500 dollars. A bit uptight

700 dollars, quite a bit for a console

1000 dollars. There really wouldn't be much of an excuse not to get a PC at that point.

Expect the type of people that still don’t have a pc probably aren’t looking to build one so they would be comparing this to pre-build pcs that are priced at a much higher premium.

 

[jshackles]

I have to assume that a factor in determining the cost of the console was "how much is $699 going to actually be worth over the next few years?" so that they don't have to have a future price increase with inflation. If the trend from 2020-2024 continues its trajectory, $700 for a high-end game console might seem cheap by the time the PS6 releases in 2028

 

[Gaiff]

That’s not how it works, the RT tech is apparently Sony’s worked in tandem with AMD to include on the GPU

No, no, and no. The PS5, just like the PS5 Pro has hardware-accelerated ray tracing capabilities. That's on the GPU itself. It isn't some separate RT machine like you seem to think it is. It's part of the GPU, therefore, already included in the bigger GPU cost that I mentioned. It's not separate. So no, it isn't another cost any more than saying more CUs is another cost on top of the larger GPU. That doesn't make sense.

And yes, that is a cost

No.

Not really no

A handful of first-party games to patch cost pennies. You can even patch DLSS yourself in games that don't support it officially with a simple file. You're seriously fishing for things to justify that $300 increase lmao.

Post the receipts please, main drivers of cost, the APU

Already did for the memory and storage. RDNA2 is 4 years old and RDNA2 GPUs and Zen 3 CPUs are cheaper now than they were in 2020. Are we supposed to believe that it's cheaper for everyone else except for Sony? What?