Wow I hope this true. This is huge win for ps5 pro if its true. I still have so many Ps2 and Ps3 backlogs.
The problem is there are only a very limited amount of titles backwards on ps5 and none for the ps3. Don't seem exactly a reliable rumour.
PS5 Pro update reportedly will upgrade PS3, PS2 and PS1 games using PSSR upscaling
The problem is there are only a very limited amount of titles backwards on ps5 and none for the ps3. Don't seem exactly a reliable rumour.
saintjules
Member
I bet you that the PS6 will be around the same pricing as the 5 Pro. Will you still get it then?
BlackTron
Member
The real shocking news would be PS3 games running on PS5 in the first place using some sort of magic that we can hardly conceive of. A Cell emulator for a console...my head hurts...
Once we have that, we can be happy to hear they are higher res from AI, which is a big nothingburger in comparison to the first hurdle.
Once we have that, we can be happy to hear they are higher res from AI, which is a big nothingburger in comparison to the first hurdle.
Badlucktroll
Member
watch them put the ps3 emulator only on the pro then lock it behind some special tier of ps plus only for the pro
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Somewhat related, but those PS3 server blades they're using for cloud streaming PS3 titles are aging, and I wouldn't be surprised if their failure rate has significantly increased over the past couple of years. I'm also uncertain if they have enough replacement blades to keep them operational. They really need to consider developing PS3 BC for the PS6, otherwise, we might have to say goodbye to even streamed PS3 games.
Last edited:
Sooner
Member
Anyone want to point out the problem in this logic?
same thank god its bs
yes ps6 is going to be 800 to 1000$
DragonNCM
Member
PS6 will be 900$-1000$, you will be lucky if is still 800$
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Yeah since the PS3 era Sony has had an obsession with maintaining the original look, I mean if you can improve it why not do that.
That's a shame
Honestly I know little about Emulation.
My experience is from the 2000's so you guys obviously know more then me with what's possible, the most modern thing I know is replacing textures
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Knightime_X
Member
Where is the guarantee it'll cost $800?
At that point just buy a high end gpu. No premium subscription required.
Bojji
Member
The best way to play PS3 games while having PS5:
1. Buy used PS3
2. Enjoy it
Don't wait for PS3 BC because it won't happen. I'm replaying MGS4 right now on PS3 (I bought my fourth or fifth PS3 few months ago) and plan to buy peace walker hd on PSN store that still is functioning. It's like 2008 all over again!
1. Buy used PS3
2. Enjoy it
Don't wait for PS3 BC because it won't happen. I'm replaying MGS4 right now on PS3 (I bought my fourth or fifth PS3 few months ago) and plan to buy peace walker hd on PSN store that still is functioning. It's like 2008 all over again!
Off topic: MGS4 is the best. I enjoyed that game on Ps3 in the past. It is an underrated in the MGS series.
Last edited:
cHaOs667
Member
Wow I hope this true. This is huge win for ps5 pro if its true. I still have so many Ps2 and Ps3 backlogs.
Only 19.99$ per game. VAT applicable.
If something is pro-gamer, Sony will try to squeeze some money out of it.,. Like always
StereoVsn
Gold Member
For a lot of games PC emulation will be even better vs native but a PS3, maybe even connected to a good upscale is always a good choice.
I have two PS3s (the original Slim versions) myself, one hooked up and one for backup.
Off topic: Ps3 console for me is completely underrated. Cell processor is still very impressive technology for me. I hope Ps6 will add some kind of a cell processor technology, along with the AMD that they will be using, like a hybrid.
Not only no but...
What if a uprendered PS3 game pop up on the PlayStation store in the next few months?
Ok so as a thought exercise - I gave some thought what it would take to hack 'driver level' Temporal Upsampler into BC.
First you need to insert sub-pixel jitter into every rendered frame - this is pre-requisite for any TAA algorithm and none of the games do it natively. It is - however, what current PS2 emulator does in the first place on PS4/PS5 (output 4 jittered frames and reconstruct them into one high-res image). So this is obviously doable.
Then you need to capture frame history (Ideally depth + RGB) - this is doable in an emulated environment although capturing specific buffers can be... fiddly (so risking compatibility). There's no standard APIs to hook for knowing what's a Frame vs Depth buffer etc - but using available HW-context, I'd still mark it as - doable.
Finally - the hard part, run a heuristic that extracts motion data from frames - amusingly this has been in some TVs since late 00s. It's also ostensibly how AMDs auto-frame gen works, and Oculus's VR frame-gen (I think that's still a thing on PC). Plus side - this can probably be improved with ML - but it'd be a new model to train for it.
Then you run TAA/PSSR as usual on that data.
The downsides from heuristically derived motion vectors is that you get various fail-cases and to not add latency you have to accept situations where generation fails/isn't ready. So it would 'work' but it wouldn't give consistent AA/resolution results (you can imagine it like DRS style drops - but not related to performance, just kind of random).
In summary - it's 'quite' complex to implement (not so different from pixel/perspective hacks in PGXP), it will not guarantee stable results (as someone else pointed out - polygon wobble would introduce ... interesting problems for AI to deal with even without hacked Velocity buffers), and it would be limited to PS5Pro only according to the rumour.
Occam's razor isn't on the side of this plausibly happening.
it's sort of analogous to hacking the pixel/perspective math in PGXP.
Was there actually any PS3/360 game that did this? I'm not aware of any. Lots of games had motion vectors (for the motion blur) - but TAA wasn't really a thing until 2014 in terms of getting 'nice' looking results(earlier attempts were quite - bad looking), and that was on much more powerful hw at the time.
kevboard
Member
Halo Reach famously had a really early and shitty form of TAA
DeVeAn
Member
Nintendo did that on 3DS with SNES games. You are probably right lol.
kevboard
Member
they didn't lock it behind a subscription tho.
also on the New 3DS it made sense given it had a more than 3x faster CPU than the normal one.
on PS5 Pro it wouldn't make sense since it barely got any CPU upgrade
Last edited:
I'll get hate for this one - but there's like what ... a handful? of titles on PCSX2 where that is true. Almost everything else is artifact ridden to hell and requires hacks to fix and then it still usually doesn't actually look right (as in accurate to original) - just - not offensive.
It's not exclusive to PS2 either - SSX3, much as I love the game - has no 'perfect' version to choose from on modern hw. PS2 has completely broken light and fog effects, and shit input latency, GC version has some weird artifacts as well and I don't know if the music ever got fixed - plus it's not the same music PS2 had so it's downgraded out of the box and XBox even on MS emulator has texture borders all over the place in skybox etc - it's 'so close but no cigar'.
Sure if you squint your eyes - they all look kind of fine - but it's just not that 'flawless 4k experience' people love to rave about - at all.
Anyway - Sony's approach to PS2 emulator fixes all that, since
a) it's not scaling the image - the closest way I could describe it is 'accumulation upscaler' render multiple subsamples and rearrange it back into an image. This guarantees same output as originally intended without creating new artifacts in the pipeline.
b) it's perfect integer upscale (2x on each axis) so it doesn't have the filtering issues naive high-res hacks often do.
It's just 2x on each axis (plus a postprocess filter - to add some edge AA) - see above.
Pixel counts look 'weird' because PS2 era games often ran at weird resolutions (well, PS2 and GC did at least) - we had programmable CRT that allowed quite a bit leeway in output odd sized pixels into that 640x480 signal (think of it like an analog upscaler - yea 360 was not the first console to do this at all).
But I digress - point being even if they did 4x or 6x on each axis - the numbers would not look any less weird, just higher.
As for why they don't go above 4x - I don't know. MRT limit on PS4 GPU is supposed to be 8 (and besides, it should be fine to do multiple passess on higher end hw too), but it's plausibly something related to that - and they just don't bother differentiating between SKUs for emulation.
It looks like PS2 games in 4x resolution do - plus the added spatial AA smear.
I agree better AA would help (as would more resolution - but AA would make a bigger difference tbh). Frankly if they just let PS5 run larger number of samples they could both enhance the AA and resolution - but I guess the cost of maintaining different emulator targets isn't worth it for them.
Last edited:
SuperC
Neo Member
Old games don't use TAA so 4K will look sharper then then even the best DLSS model and without motion vector data it's impossible anyway to upscale old games
Last edited:
Badlucktroll
Member
then its going to just be crap like lost via domus and genji days of the blade
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
I really don't like being a grammar nazi, but the Tegra K1 and X1 are two different SoC's, no cut downs. X1 uses Maxwell-based GPU, K1, has 192 cores of the Kepler generation.
But i do like that you use the Shield Tablet for this, because the Shield Tablet was essentially a proto-Switch when it released in 2014. Having better GPU perf than PS360, it had a beautiful port of Trine 2 (which also went to Wii U, mind you) aswell as native ports of Borderlands 2 and The Pre-Sequel. You could use the HDMI to play those on TV, and use a separate controller for that Switch-like experience. Not bad for 4x Cortex A15, 2 GB DDR3 and 192 CUDA cores.
I wish DF did a throwback on those, because even at 10 years old, Shield Tablet/Shield K1 was remarkable hardware. Having PS360 perf in that form factor in 2014 was cool as heck. Sadly all these exclusive games are woefully unspoken of. Which is a shame. It was pretty on par with a PS360, in 2014.
... In fact it was more powerful than a Wii U on GPU perf. It sucks that Nvidia did do a push for the machine but it never became quite the console that it could be (Same for the Shield TV).
simpatico
Member
Oh man, how did Sony know that the one thing retro gamers want is texture filtering on PSX games. Throw in some bloom lighting if you really want to make them happy. Hopefully the PS2 games become unrecognizable too. Retro gamers prefer temporal shimmer much more than a 1:1 transfer of games from the past. Keep the good stuff coming! I hope they compress the shit out of those PCM PSX audio files. The broad dynamic range doesn't sound right on my ear buds.
Spatial scaling, the same thing PS4 enhanced option is doing
it needs a AutoSR feature like on those snapdragon laptop, the PS4 enhanced option is too limited and cost quite a bit in performance. They should make it compatible with all PS4 games and some PS5 games that never got pro patch and also improve the quality big time. Also something like AutoHDR is also welcome.
Bojji
Member
I can play both ways but original hardware have some benefits (zero additional bugs, trophies with PSN, full DS3 support etc.). I also can't explain why but 30fps on PS3 it totally playable for me, while on modern consoles and PC it looks like slide show. And this is on OLED...
mclaren777
Member
I'm really curious how inFamous 2 would look upscaled.
kevboard
Member
it also had some exclusive graphics modes in normal Android games like Asphalt 8, which looked significantly better than on any other device.
the tablet was used in official demos on TV shows and trade shows for mobile games for years after it came out.
just like the X1, the T1 was far ahead of the competition. which is why I always found it idiotic when people called the Switch an outdated system when it launched... like... there literally was no better hardware on the market that they could have realistically used.
even in the downclocked state Nintendo used the X1 in, it outperformed the best chips of the competition when they ran at their max rated GPU clock.
Last edited: