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[Topher]

It's a drop in the ocean compared to PC hell, I didn't even have to go to Reddit, it's right here, an enthusiast forum with people struggling with their PlugnPlay Gaming PCs

Be a dear and type "pc driver problem" into Reddit, compare with your cute little search, orders of magnitude more hits.

Yeah....no shit. I know full well that PCs are going to have many more instances of issues than console. Nothing I posted said otherwise. Googling "pc driver problem" is going to return what? Yeah....a bunch of folks having driver problems. Same with those PS5 errors I posted. It's a self-serving exercise and exactly my point. A product can have 4.5/5 ratings but if you only ever read the negative reviews then you'll think it is a piece of shit.

 

[Zathalus]

It's a drop in the ocean compared to PC hell, I didn't even have to go to Reddit, it's right here, an enthusiast forum with people struggling with their PlugnPlay Gaming PCs

Be a dear and type "pc driver problem" into Reddit, compare with your cute little search, orders of magnitude more hits.

Of course, but that doesn't mean it is some widespread issue that all PC gamers deal with. If you have a 99.9% chance of not having an issue with your console, then you have a 95% chance of not having an issue with your PC. Sure, you are 50x more likely to have a PC issue vs your console, but looking at it another way, you still have a 95% chance to not have an issue with your PC.

 

[Denton]

To be fair, the issues I mentioned happened over a span of 10 years of using it on a TV with a 4K scaled resolution. I used to have the patience to deal with them, but I don't have the time anymore (only 1–2 hours a day at most). It sucks, since games are much cheaper on PC than on consoles in my country, but I guess I value convenience more these days.

Fair enough. For me PC is more convenient, since I can do everything on it - gaming and non-gaming, like browsing gaf - and get higher quality of experience at the same time (plus as you mentioned, cheaper games, generally).

 

[Ellis]

Don't forget that a large benefit of current consoles is that they can send data to components faster than the majority of PC builds. You won't have the issue of pathetically low bus speeds of modern Nvidia GPUs, or far slower VRAM. It's an area where current consoles don't skimp on, even if the raw grunt of the hardware is weaker. I'd be surprised if DDR5 memory on a new AM5 or Intel board is as fast as what is in a base PS5. A system that's five years old.

That's not a knock at PC's. It's my main platform of choice, but there has been some serious skimping in recent years and it should be spoken about.

Consoles still do some things better and more efficient than what we can accomplish with our PC builds.

 

[mckmas8808]

Considering that hundreds of thousands of GPUs are sold each month by retailers in the USA, a lot of people build their own PCs. Not the majority, but not some insignificant minority either.

Of course, because those people want to game on PCs. And that's perfectly fine. And I'm sure some of those same people also purchased a PS5 or Nintendo Switch 1 or 2 also. But lets stop acting as if this comparison between the PS5 Pro and a PC is real. Both can and are existing.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Yeah....no shit. I know full well that PCs are going to have many more instances of issues than console. Nothing I posted said otherwise. Googling "pc driver problem" is going to return what? Yeah....a bunch of folks having driver problems. Same with those PS5 errors I posted. It's a self-serving exercise and exactly my point. A product can have 4.5/5 ratings but if you only ever read the negative reviews then you'll think it is a piece of shit.

The point is that PCs, despite the endless fantasy lies, around nowhere near as plug and play as consoles.
No idea why fanboys can't just concede that not everything about their platform of choice is perfect.

 

[mckmas8808]

The point is that PCs, despite the endless fantasy lies, around nowhere near as plug and play as consoles.
No idea why fanboys can't just concede that not everything about their platform of choice is perfect.

BOOM!!!! It's exactly why this thread at this point is pointless. PCs and the PS5 Pro both exist and are great at what they do. No reason for someone to act as if the average person is going to game on a PC with a similar experience to the PS5 Pro for $800. Just stop the cap.

 

[Hudo]

The point is that PCs, despite the endless fantasy lies, around nowhere near as plug and play as consoles.
No idea why fanboys can't just concede that not everything about their platform of choice is perfect.

To be fair, consoles nowadays are also not as plug & play in comparison to ye olde consoles of yore. I could put in a game module into my Mega Drive or Snes and just turn it on, and I would immediately get into the game. Now I have some shitty "OS" that I have to navigate and account bullshit I have to deal with. Still less of a hurdle than PC, yes. But I wouldn't call modern consoles "plug & play" anymore.

 

[rodrigolfp]

BOOM!!!! It's exactly why this thread at this point is pointless. PCs and the PS5 Pro both exist and are great at what they do. No reason for someone to act as if the average person is going to game on a PC with a similar experience to the PS5 Pro for $800. Just stop the cap.

The thread is not about one or another.

 

[Topher]

The point is that PCs, despite the endless fantasy lies, around nowhere near as plug and play as consoles.
No idea why fanboys can't just concede that not everything about their platform of choice is perfect.

And my point (where you jumped in with your silly copium gif) had nothing to do with PC or console as far as being "plug and play".

I've yet to see a post claiming any platform is "perfect".

 

[nnytk]

Buying refurb is going to increase your risk of having problems whether it is PC or console. In either case, returning the defective device or part is an option.

QoL features come at the expense of options. If you don't like the recording capabilities of your console then there is nothing you can do about it. Not so with PC. Want more than a couple of graphical modes? Sorry. Want to use a controller other than DualSense? Possible but you have to buy a third party adapter. Even something as simple as playing a game with keyboard and mouse is not typically supported on console. So would I give up all the options I have on PC for some QoL features? Nope.

As far as custom builds, if you build a PC correctly then luck has nothing to do with it. That's a matter of knowledge and experience. But again.....building is another PC option. You don't have to build anything.

I didn't buy refurbished. I got handed refurbished. Asus fucked up, which is exactly why I'm sharing it here. And I have friends who had similar issues with "new" GPU cards in the past years.

QoL coming at the expense of options isn't relevant here. We were talking about PC being plug and play and I'm sharing why I find that to be false, or at least, lacking in nuance.

Edit: nobody ever said that console gaming is perfect or doesn't have cons.

 

[Gaiff]

The point is that PCs, despite the endless fantasy lies, around nowhere near as plug and play as consoles.
No idea why fanboys can't just concede that not everything about their platform of choice is perfect.

"You fanboys" coming from the number 1 fanboy in this thread.

 

[ecosse_011172]

"You fanboys" coming from the number 1 fanboy in this thread.

What am I a fanboy of?
Which of the 3 consoles is it, or is it my Gaming PC?
Isn't she lovely?

 

[Topher]

I didn't buy refurbished. I got handed refurbished. Asus fucked up, which is exactly why I'm sharing it here. And I have friends who had similar issues with "new" GPU cards in the past years.

QoL coming at the expense of options isn't relevant here. We were talking about PC being plug and play and I'm sharing why I find that to be false, or at least, lacking in nuance.

The tradeoffs for QoL are directly relevant. But if you only want to discuss the pros and not the cons then not much point continuing...

 

[TintoConCasera]

Those threads are always filled with people that don't game on PC talking as if they were experts on the matter.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Reading through the gazillions of poor framerate, resolutions, IQ, graphics, BC, controllers support, mods, emulations, paid online, $70~80 dollar games, 3RL, YLOD, etc etc is eye opening.

Not to mention, 95% of consoles are on wifi. Tekken getting crossplay was an eye opening experience. It tells you if your opponent is on console and if they are using wifi. Laggy ass wifi warriors everywhere. Idk why this never gets brought up.

B-b-but muh cheaters!

I would much rather deal with the small handful of cheaters I have seen in my years and years of playing online PC games than a guarantee that the people I'm playing against are on wifi and the game is using smoke and mirrors to give the illusion of a smooth experience.

 

[DoomD]

Things are much more interesting now with the release of the 9060XT 16GB cards. Now you can finally build a PC with better performance than a PS5 Pro for about the same price. This is unprecedented since in the past you could get no where close to a consoles performance for the money unless you waited many years later. Now with that said, I don't think it makes sense to tell people to just buy a PC instead of a PS5 Pro, some people just like the plug and play nature of consoles and a PC is just not the same. Although I strongly disagree with people that make it to be this giant hassel to play PC games, even hooked up to a TV. That's my exact setup and I can't remember the last time I've had issues with it and with something like Steam Big Picture mode, I never even have to touch a mouse or keyboard unless I want to do a driver update.

 

[SpokkX]

you need to focus on the shittiest part when comparing: the cpu

Ps5 pro is about Ryzen 7 3700X

So… low end modern pc part

 

[winjer]

you need to focus on the shittiest part when comparing: the cpu

Ps5 pro is about Ryzen 7 3700X

So… low end modern pc part

Its worse than that. Remember that the CPU on the PS5 is clocked lower. And it only has 4MB+4MB of L3 cache.

 

[Bojji]

you need to focus on the shittiest part when comparing: the cpu

Ps5 pro is about Ryzen 7 3700X

So… low end modern pc part

Its worse than that. Remember that the CPU on the PS5 is clocked lower. And it only has 4MB+4MB of L3 cache.

It's a mobile Z2 basically.

BUT, developers can avoid latency problems because unlike PC they can target one specific CPU (and avoid jumping from one CCX to the next if not necessary) and PS Api in general is probably X% faster than DX12/Vulcan.

 

[Clear]

Thanks for doubling down on the hyperbole. Every game launch? Come on now.

Based on reactions around here, issues are way more common than not when it comes to big releases.. I mean it could be just that a lot of releases use UE5, and UE5 particularly has issues with shader and traversal stutter, but you know what I mean.

As I wrote, although a lot of improvements have been made -its still far from perfect. And I get that if a person has spent big on their rig, they expect an experience reflective of that. Its why I think PC gamers are way more sensitive about performance than console gamers.

 

[rodrigolfp]

has issues with shader stutter

Had. What year is it??

 

[willothedog]

What am I a fanboy of?
Which of the 3 consoles is it, or is it my Gaming PC?
Isn't she lovely?

Jesus do they still sell a HTPC chasis, that thing belongs in a museum.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Jesus do they still sell a HTPC chasis, that thing belongs in a museum.

No, it's a classic, perfect for living room pc gaming though

 

[Topher]

No, it's a classic, perfect for living room pc gaming though

It's a nice setup. Blends in with the rest and doesn't stand out like most PCs would

 

[ecosse_011172]

It's a nice setup. Blends in with the rest and doesn't stand out like most PCs would

Thanks, it took ages to choose as I wanted one as big as possible to fit a full-size GPU and good cooling whilst still being discrete.

 

[OLED_Gamer]

Things are much more interesting now with the release of the 9060XT 16GB cards. Now you can finally build a PC with better performance than a PS5 Pro for about the same price. This is unprecedented since in the past you could get no where close to a consoles performance for the money unless you waited many years later. Now with that said, I don't think it makes sense to tell people to just buy a PC instead of a PS5 Pro, some people just like the plug and play nature of consoles and a PC is just not the same. Although I strongly disagree with people that make it to be this giant hassel to play PC games, even hooked up to a TV. That's my exact setup and I can't remember the last time I've had issues with it and with something like Steam Big Picture mode, I never even have to touch a mouse or keyboard unless I want to do a driver update.

Its not a massive difference:

$490 CAD for the cheapest 9060xt. $959 CAD for the PS5 Pro. $469 for the rest of the PC is really pushing it.

Cheapest bundle deal with a 7600x is a 7600x+ Gigabyte B650M Gaming + Teamgroup Vulcan 32GB kit for $499 CAD. Still need a case, fans, PSU and a cooler.

 

[Minsc]

Its not a massive difference:

$490 CAD for the cheapest 9060xt. $959 CAD for the PS5 Pro. $469 for the rest of the PC is really pushing it.

Cheapest bundle deal with a 7600x is a 7600x+ Gigabyte B650M Gaming + Teamgroup Vulcan 32GB kit for $499 CAD. Still need a case, fans, PSU and a cooler.

True, but now do DQXI S on the same PS5 and PC, with the Project Rebuild mods on PC and the ini tweaks, and they look like a split generation apart.

Hell even running the game off my laptop is far better than anything I've seen the PS5 put out. So you do get access to greatly improve things on PC, even if the performance is similar.

 

[Clear]

Had. What year is it??

Literally today JayZ2cents, a YT PC channel with over 4 mil subs, put up a video entitled "Stuttering in games fixed... this might fix yours too".

 

[OLED_Gamer]

True, but now do DQXI S on the same PS5 and PC, with the Project Rebuild mods on PC and the ini tweaks, and they look like a split generation apart.

Hell even running the game off my laptop is far better than anything I've seen the PS5 put out. So you do get access to greatly improve things on PC, even if the performance is similar.

What is DQXI S?

 

[Gaiff]

Its not a massive difference:



$490 CAD for the cheapest 9060xt. $959 CAD for the PS5 Pro. $469 for the rest of the PC is really pushing it.

Cheapest bundle deal with a 7600x is a 7600x+ Gigabyte B650M Gaming + Teamgroup Vulcan 32GB kit for $499 CAD. Still need a case, fans, PSU and a cooler.

Lucky us, we didn't get hit with the $50 price increase. Otherwise, we'd be looking at over $1000 CAD for the Pro.

What is DQXI S?

Dragon Quest XI S, the "enhanced" Switch edition that was then ported to the other consoles and overwrote the original version with more features but worse visuals.

 

[kevboard]

Funny how that guy adds disc drive to PS5 while none one uses disc drive on PC.

retail games are a core part of the Playstation ecosystem, while it is nearly completely irrelevant on PC

 

[SuperC]

Its not a massive difference:

RT off and still can't beat the 9060 XT lol

The PS5 Pro is a failure in raster, failure in RT, and a failure in AI upscaling

 

[OLED_Gamer]

Lucky us, we didn't get hit with the $50 price increase. Otherwise, we'd be looking at over $1000 CAD for the Pro.


Dragon Quest XI S, the "enhanced" Switch edition that was then ported to the other consoles and overwrote the original version with more features but worse visuals.

Seems day 1 buys are the way to go now. Sad times where patience is actually penalized.

 

[OLED_Gamer]

RT off and still can't beat the 9060 XT lol

The PS5 Pro is a failure in raster, failure in RT, and a failure in AI upscaling

See below my previous comment:

Its not a massive difference:

$490 CAD for the cheapest 9060xt. $959 CAD for the PS5 Pro. $469 for the rest of the PC is really pushing it.

Cheapest bundle deal with a 7600x is a 7600x+ Gigabyte B650M Gaming + Teamgroup Vulcan 32GB kit for $499 CAD. Still need a case, fans, PSU and a cooler.

 

[Senua]

Literally today JayZ2cents, a YT PC channel with over 4 mil subs, put up a video entitled "Stuttering in games fixed... this might fix yours too".

And that's where you and your ilk get your information from, it's always second hand and you ignore those here with first hand experience.

 

[kevboard]

Literally today JayZ2cents, a YT PC channel with over 4 mil subs, put up a video entitled "Stuttering in games fixed... this might fix yours too".

yes, and that video is about a broken Bluetooth driver of some motherboards. it has nothing to do with shader stutters.

his motherboard constantly connects and disconnects peripheral, which in return results in stutters during games. and apparently this is a problem a number of motherboards with onboard wifi/bluetooth have.

 

[Minsc]

Seems day 1 buys are the way to go now. Sad times where patience is actually penalized.

Even if it looks worse on console, you can mod it on PC and restore the graphics to the style of the non-S release.

The S release has SOO much QOL added content and just some great choices that enhance the mood - like always seeing your full party around when exploring the map, etc.

Pretty much every single addition/change is great, and the visual hit can be restored on PC. I originally played DQXIS on PS5 - and replaying on PC just feels like it's a full remaster to me, the draw distance, the better AA, the better filtering, shadows and lighting, better character models, feels like the entire game is a running cutscene on PC compared to how I remembered it.

 

[rnlval]

you need to focus on the shittiest part when comparing: the cpu

Ps5 pro is about Ryzen 7 3700X

So… low end modern pc part

AMD 4700S product has PS5's APU with disabled iGPU. PS5's CPU has been benchmarked and it's less than Ryzen 7 3700X.

RT off and still can't beat the 9060 XT lol

The PS5 Pro is a failure in raster, failure in RT, and a failure in AI upscaling

RX 9060 XT's RDNA 4 CU has double texture sampling rates (TMU I/O) when compared to RDNA 3.0 CU.

RDNA 3.0's dual issue feature improvement needs to be matched by RDNA 4.0's double texture sampling rates improvement. AMD's RT is reliant on the TMU I/O path, and RDNA 4.0 CU achieves double the performance of RDNA 3.0 CU.

From the FSR4 source code leak, AMD is working INT8 version, which is useful for RDNA 3.0 and 3.5 GPUs.

 

[Thebonehead]

He wasn't there during the days of AGP vs PCI when GPUs required different slots, or that you had to manually set up an optical drive as a slave and boot drive as a master for your system to start properly. Not to mention the manual downloads of drivers instead of Windows automatically detecting 99% of devices and installing them for you.

PC these days is incredibly easy. Not as plug-and-play as console, but complexity is almost a non-factor.

Ah, the good old days of 640k, autoexec.bat, config sys and memmaker to decide what to load where in memory.

You want to network your pc so you can play multiplayer quake? just use the floppy disk to config your card with the correct IRQ and also install the driver.

I don't miss any of that at all.

 

[Clear]

yes, and that video is about a broken Bluetooth driver of some motherboards. it has nothing to do with shader stutters.

his motherboard constantly connects and disconnects peripheral, which in return results in stutters during games. and apparently this is a problem a number of motherboards with onboard wifi/bluetooth have.

its still a PC problem. One of many!

Give up, you aren't convincing anyone.

 

[Zathalus]

Based on reactions around here, issues are way more common than not when it comes to big releases.. I mean it could be just that a lot of releases use UE5, and UE5 particularly has issues with shader and traversal stutter, but you know what I mean.

As I wrote, although a lot of improvements have been made -its still far from perfect. And I get that if a person has spent big on their rig, they expect an experience reflective of that. Its why I think PC gamers are way more sensitive about performance than console gamers.

Even thousands of complaints does not a common issue make. PC gaming has hundreds of millions of monthly users. Even if 10k users complain about various different issues it doesn't exactly make those problems widespread.

That's my point, PC gaming has potentially more issues than console gaming, but it is not exactly something that affects all, or even the vast majority of users.

And yes, you'd expect a better experience if you spend more on your PC, but for PC gamers they do get that better experience. Higher fps and graphical fidelity is just a small advantage, but the main draw is the flexibility you get with PC gaming. But of course that flexibility comes with the downside that things have a higher chance of going wrong.

 

[OLED_Gamer]

Even thousands of complaints does not a common issue make. PC gaming has hundreds of millions of monthly users. Even if 10k users complain about various different issues it doesn't exactly make those problems widespread.

That's my point, PC gaming has potentially more issues than console gaming, but it is not exactly something that affects all, or even the vast majority of users.

And yes, you'd expect a better experience if you spend more on your PC, but for PC gamers they do get that better experience. Higher fps and graphical fidelity is just a small advantage, but the main draw is the flexibility you get with PC gaming. But of course that flexibility comes with the downside that things have a higher chance of going wrong.

PC is objectively better so long as everything works (as you said).

Problem is that very few people know how to troubleshoot or want to. Issues can come in many forms and bear lots of frustrations. I know my way around PCs but i'm still at the mercy of either Windows or AMD for fixes, such as my BLOPS 6 Directx crashes making the game a useless $70 license, or CP2077 PT crashing.

Then there are the Nvidia driver general issues. While better, still a far worse experience than generations prior.

 

[Bojji]

its still a PC problem. One of many!

Give up, you aren't convincing anyone.

It's not exactly "PC problem", seems like wireless component on some motherboards are faulty or drivers for them are fucked. This is probably like tiny of % of people affected and this can be fixed by users. I have similar problem with HD audio on my 2019 mobo, I saw stuttering in Watchdogs Legion that was not related to anything - audio was dropping at the same time, took me few minuted to identify the problem. After disabling HD audio in bios I have zero problems.

Seems like quality control is now lower than in the past, I never had problems like that with my previous motherboards. Modern Realtek components are garbage.

PC is objectively better so long as everything works (as you said).

Problem is that very few people know how to troubleshoot or want to. Issues can come in many forms and bear lots of frustrations. I know my way around PCs but i'm still at the mercy of either Windows or AMD for fixes, such as my BLOPS 6 Directx crashes making the game a useless $70 license, or CP2077 PT crashing.

Then there are the Nvidia driver general issues. While better, still a far worse experience than generations prior.

Very few people will know how to handle more complex OS stuff in the future. Seems like Gen Z is as illiterate when it comes to "how tech works" as boomers. Dumb friendly OSs in phones really fucked them up...

Looks like Gen X and Millennials will be fixing computers till they die.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Literally today JayZ2cents, a YT PC channel with over 4 mil subs, put up a video entitled "Stuttering in games fixed... this might fix yours too".

No shader stutters, including all the latest UE5 games like Wuchang, MGSD, Hell is Us, Cronos. Only traversal stutters are still a problem including on consoles.

 

[OLED_Gamer]

It's not exactly "PC problem", seems like wireless component on some motherboards are faulty or drivers for them are fucked. This is probably like tiny of % of people affected and this can be fixed by users. I have similar problem with HD audio on my 2019 mobo, I saw stuttering in Watchdogs Legion that was not related to anything - audio was dropping at the same time, took me few minuted to identify the problem. After disabling HD audio in bios I have zero problems.

Seems like quality control is now lower than in the past, I never had problems like that in the past. Seems like modern Realtek components are garbage.



Very few people will know how to handle more complex OS stuff in the future. Seems like Gen Z is as illiterate when it comes to "how tech works" as boomers. Dumb friendly OSs in phones really fucked them up...

Looks like Gen X and Millennials will be fixing computers till they die.

They could try an AI prompt though.

You are correct though. Both my kids prefer iPads over trying to learn PC. "Whats a mouse daddy?" I show them and they shrug and go back to the iPad environment.

 

[Bojji]

They could try an AI prompt though.

You are correct though. Both my kids prefer iPads over trying to learn PC. "Whats a mouse daddy?" I show them and they shrug and go back to the iPad environment.

I have a feeling that all this Ai stuff will drop population IQ to like: 75.

You don't need to know fucking anything at this point, just ask Ai (and don't worry that some of the answers are complete bullshit and hallucinations).

 

[vkbest]

Its not a massive difference:

$490 CAD for the cheapest 9060xt. $959 CAD for the PS5 Pro. $469 for the rest of the PC is really pushing it.

Cheapest bundle deal with a 7600x is a 7600x+ Gigabyte B650M Gaming + Teamgroup Vulcan 32GB kit for $499 CAD. Still need a case, fans, PSU and a cooler.

I'm not surprised DF and PCMR always are using the worst optimized games on PS5 Pro for comparing relative performance (Silent Hill 2, Alan wake 2 and Wukong)

 

[Gaiff]

I'm not surprised DF and PCMR always are using the worst optimized games on PS5 Pro for comparing relative performance (Silent Hill 2, Alan wake 2 and Wukong)

None of those games are especially poorly optimized on the Pro. Alan Wake 2, on the contrary, does far better on the Pro than on the base PS5.

 

[vkbest]

None of those games are especially poorly optimized on the Pro. Alan Wake 2, on the contrary, does far better on the Pro than on the base PS5.

Alan Wake 2 Pro version runs worse than XSX version, or you think PS5 Pro is worse than XSX?. Wukong developers never developed for consoles before and consoles are a niche market in China. Silent Hill 2 and MGS5 remake have the worst pro patches.