Bojji
Gold Member
Those games are just tiny fraction of libraries of PS1 and PS2.
I counted ~17 games here for PS4/PS5:
List of downloadable PlayStation games (PAL region) - Wikipedia
Most PS2 games are "unreleased" on PS4/PS5:
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PS5 ROM keys leaked
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Those games are just tiny fraction of libraries of PS1 and PS2.
I counted ~17 games here for PS4/PS5:
Most PS2 games are "unreleased" on PS4/PS5:
yogaflame
Member
Ill be honest. I bought allot of pirated games last ps1 and ps2 era. Last ps3 era I did not jailbreak my ps3 because i was afrad to damage my ps3 and not able to play online. But for ps4 and ps5 era, i really preferred the original copy which helps supports game developers.
You can watch these two videos for when there is a video memory deficit that pushes data into system memory. Using a PCIe 5.0 mobo isnt going to have any
In this video its clearly demonstrated, newer PCIe but lower memory bandwidth wont improve anything.
A 16GB 5060ti using PCIe 3.0 outperforms an 8GB 5060 on PCIe 5.0 by over 60% since no data has to be fetched from system memory, every necessary asset in resident in vram. If the Steam Machine hits vram deficit and places that data in system memory it wont be able to match a system with a better gpu more memory and memory bandwidth despite pcie 5.0.
This video just demonstrates fundamentally why a vram memory deficit is bad. even on the same pcie board, fetching data into system memory during a vram memory deficit yields no noticeable benefit in performance.
So the Steam Machine just physically has a narrower bus width, lower capacity and not even PCIe 5.0 can compensate for that, base PS5 alone will always outperform it despite PCIe 4.0 since no gaming assets are ever resident in low bandwidth memory. If it had more VRAM then there would be significant gains in terms of texture quality at least. Like say 10-12GB of gddr6, but there's about 4.5GB more high bandwidth memory in the base PS5.
You're comparing a first order constraint(GPU bandwidth, VRAM size) to a second order theoretical challenge from early PS4 days. Memory contention between the CPU and GPU if unaddressed by the PS5 would still outperform the Steam Machine's first order contraints of lower VRAM and bandwidth. But Sony has actually addressed any potential theoretical issues by designing the memory controller to smartly schedule access such that the CPU and GPU never thrash each other. The PS5 unified memory has no memory contention issues. As well the software APIs have CPU/GPU scheduling so devs simply have to drop data into unified memory without any worry about such a second order constraint. Memory contention only came about during early PS4 days and even then it was about designing around a fixed budget than unified memory is fundamentally flawed.
As you can see in the slide you attached, its estimated you'd need above 64MB of L3 cache to start seeing compelling bandwidth gains with 120MB being the sweet spot. 32MB doesnt hit that threshold. So its quite a stretch to say the Steam Machine will have as much memory bandwidth as the PS5.Yes, 32Mb of L3 cache helps a lot with reducing memory accesses. Around 30% at 4K, Around 45% at 1440p and around 55% at 1080p.
This is AMD's own data. And was also corroborated by nvidia, when they started using a big L2 cache as well.
So in practical terms the APU in the Steam Machine will have as much bandwidth as the PS5. And it will have the advantage of lower latency for anything that hits the L3 on the GPU.
I agree the Zen 4 cores are better and the CPU in the Steam Machine will be better but I think in games like GTA 6, PS5 CPU will provide the edge with the 2.5 extra cores considering the game engine is built for highly parallel multithreaded workloads. So yes in the vast majority of games Steam machine CPU is better. I dont want to go into too many cpu related things for example only 2 of the 6 cores in the steam machine can boost up to 4.8Ghz, but yes steam machine has better cpu.
Try harder. Delisting a game is it no longer being available for purchase most likely due to an expired license. Everyone that has a copy of it still has a copy and can continue to play it.
Instead, a game you purchased, that you might physically have the disk for and can install, and had single player elements. Which you can no longer play in any way because a company turned off servers. That's complete and utter bullshit.
And who said anything about piracy being morally correct? Piracy is the crime of copy infringement. It's not stealing or "theft". Theft is the act of taking something from someone which deprives them of that. An example would be a company taking away a person's ability to play a single player game. That's a pretty good example of stealing something.
All this legal mumbo jumbo can be confusing. But if you are going to mount up on a moral high horse and proclaim yourself superior to others via your virtuous actions. You really need to have your argument's ducks in a row. Else you just come off as a smooth brained Nintendiot.
Tons being a small fraction of what was offered for purchase on the PS3 and is locked to systems that are no longer supported.
Sony does get props in that you can claim the PS4/PS5 copy for free if you owned the older version for a majority of these new releases, but not all.
And less than two dozen about of thousands of games for the PS1 alone isn't a "ton".
While the PS4 and PS5 don't support Audio CDs, their drives are still able to read the disks. Sony could have an software emulator that played any disk, and let you download digital copies of any of the games you previously bought. There's no need for updates for trophies, the original games just didn't have them.
Over the past decade we've seen many older games be ported or remastered to modern platforms. These include collections that were mostly just a frontend for an emulator and a handful of ROMs. And what happened? I don't have numbers but they kept coming so people must have bought them, I sure bought a bunch that I was interested in.
It's almost like not complaining that people are pirating old games, and instead making them commercially available will have people give you money for them instead.
Though I do see several "game developers" complaining in this thread. I have to wonder if they have brightly dyed hair and are just upset that people want to play good old games rather than the modern slop that they created. No one cares that your parents don't "get you". They still paid for your college and are still playing for your apartment so you can push out crap with "modern ideals" that no normal person actually wants to buy.
kpopSuperstar
Gold Member
Which games took away the single-player? apart from The Crew and licensed games.
Fabieter
Member
Such a hypocrit quote from him considering most big games have steam drm on his platform.
SportsFan581
Member
These units will go up in value now. Ebay scaplbers are probably looking around for the right units as we speak.
That Steam DRM that's extremely easy to crack? It's little more than a disk check. Nothing like the garage that is Denuvo that affects game performance and causes stuttering.
Valve does have some tech that's deeper but it's used for Vac which is anticheat. That needs to be able to find things than could be running at higher permissions.
Once a game is installed and ran once, it can be played offline without intermittent license checks or other BS.
It's not DRM free like GOG. But it's a far better compromise than the other solutions out there. Some publishers won't release with DRM and aren't on GOG.
The Crew is the major one that's recent. There are older games that have online DRM where the servers are now gone. You need to crack the game to play then even if installing off a legit disk.
Most games will lose multiplayer, or some type of leaderboard or other functionality when servers go away. But the game still works.
Though there are cases like the console game Rock Band Blitz. Without the server you can't earn power ups and multipliers which cripples the game. Sure you can still play it, but the experience is broken.
Again the licensed games were delisted so they aren't sold anymore. But anyone with a copy can still play them. It stinks if it was only available digitally as new people can't buy it and there's no used market they can turn to. But the game can still be legally played. So it's not even remotely the same thing as having something you bought taken away from you.
This is also an entirely different argument from online multiplayer only games going offline. At least with that you know there's something external going in. You don't expect a single player game to stop working one day after the publisher stops supporting it
Fabieter
Member
The point was gaben isnt any better as other cooperate suits so quoting him seems weird.
Crayon
Member
Bazzite on a ps5 would be pretty cool. Wouldn't be the greatest for the heaviest aaa games with that setup, but it would still run them. Would be cool as htpc or at a desk. I think it's nice hardware for the price. Especially the pro with 2tb and the gpu headroom to make up for the assumed loss of efficient utilization and be able to keep up with current gen games.
Well we'll see how far this goes. They'll probably need to just eat shit on it. Wouldn't be the first console that got prolifically hacked and was still a success.
Well we'll see how far this goes. They'll probably need to just eat shit on it. Wouldn't be the first console that got prolifically hacked and was still a success.
Tobimacoss
Member
What about physical games that don't have full game on disc and require an internet download? Isn't that most physical AAA games these days?
Could Sony do some sort of trade in program for older discs to get the patched Digital licenses? That's one way to fix the older software, but yea, it's a PR and customer support nightmare to be able to pull it off.
They will just want to move to PS6 gen faster.
Bojji
Gold Member
I remember when PS3 was hacked and everyone was saying that "Sony is doomed" or that it can't be fixed... It was literally fixed by the next firmware.
IF something happens because these keys are now known it will be small group of people that will use CFW compared to normal paying customers that want access to PSN.
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Jinzo Prime
Member
Yeah, this is for people who want to use their PS5 as a media center and for people who want to dump and patch their disc games. This doesn't hurt Sony and the people who like this sort of thing have a new toy to play with. Win/win.
3liteDragon
Member
PS5 ROM Keys Leaked: Sony’s Unpatchable Security Nightmare (2026) | The CyberSec Guru
PS5 ROM keys leaked on New Year's Eve. Sony faces an unpatchable hardware nightmare. Get full details on the hack, BrutalSam, and jailbreak
thecybersecguru.com
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What a headline.PS5 ROM Keys Leaked: Sony’s Unpatchable Security Nightmare (2026) | The CyberSec Guru
PS5 ROM keys leaked on New Year's Eve. Sony faces an unpatchable hardware nightmare. Get full details on the hack, BrutalSam, and jailbreak
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Interesting.....sounds good.
coffinbirth
Member
If by "fixed" you mean removed key features that resulted in a class action lawsuit, sure. It was also never actually "fixed" despite this, lol. It actually got much worse for their security. That actually was a pretty big black eye for Sony... The problem was the same back then as it is now, people are morons and blame piracy for the demise of hardware, i.e. PSP, Dreamcast, etc. No console will ever be doomed because of piracy. One need to look no further than Nintendo Switch, the best selling fucking thing ever, to see how little of an impact RAMPANT piracy has had. And this includes pc emulation happening alongside the console releases, which, afaik is pretty unprecedented.
Nearly every console ever made has methods for piracy, yet they have done just fine. The effect this will have on PS5 will be almost identical to what it has been on PS4, which is to say, very, very little.
It does have the very real implications of security breaches, account hacking/theft and cheaters ruining multiplayer games, however.
Fabieter
Member
Thats dishonest to excuse Piracy like that. Most people hacked their psp. The platform and games were absolutely sublime.
I know alot of people love piracy and doing mental gymnastics to excuse that garbage but come on.
coffinbirth
Member
The PSP attach rate was in line with everything else at the time. The PSP was very successful for Sony, yet anytime it's brought up now people say piracy doomed it. Obviously software sales will be better with piracy out of the equation.
The DS piracy scene absolutely dwarfed the PSP scene, yet you don't hear much about that reality.
And no, most people didn't hack their PSP. That number is likely in the hundreds of thousands, not millions.
Fess
Member
And GTA6…
But Sony is going to hunt down anyone who mess with the timed exclusivity strategy. Expect emulators to go poof as soon as anyone post anything about running PS5 games not available on PC yet.
Fabieter
Member
I was talking anecdotal. Do you have any hard prove for that?
I didnt know a single person who hasnt hacked their psp and alot of used psp i saw online were also hacked.
I just find it hard to believe that there were less than 5% people hacking their psp when is was piss easy to do so.
Why do people always downplay piracy all the fucking time like its a fucking non issue.
coffinbirth
Member
Because it is.
Sand Dan Glokta
Gold Member
Emulation is protected under copyright law from my understanding, as long as the developer(s) don't make money from it.
Fess
Member
Hasn't Nintendo erased some emulators?
Edit: I'm thinking that PS5 games on PC is a step too far. Once PS6 is out things should be calmer.
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Fabieter
Member
Sand Dan Glokta
Gold Member
They've certainly tired....hehe. The forks of the original Yuzu/Ryujinx are still out there, being actively worked on and supporting all the NS games.
Fess
Member
Original developers? I thought it all ended quite abruptly when Nintendo sent out the suits and ninjas.
Bojji
Gold Member
With 3.56 they fixed the problem:
PS3 firmware 3.56 hacked in less than a day, Sony's lawyers look confused (update)
Sony's taken some strong steps against PS3 cracking in the past week -- not only has it taken to the courts and won a temporary restraining order against Geohot and fail0verflow for cracking the console, but it also released firmware 3.56, which locked things down again. Unfortunately, that...
Update part of the article is really interesting. That status quo (you have to be below 3.56FW to be able to "hack" the console) remained for majority of normal PS3 life. I found out that console was completely cracked just one year ago when I bought my (fourth) PS3.
But yeah, Piracy was never rampant problem on Sony consoles since PS2.
Fabieter
Member
Yeah devs are fine as long as they dont do donation bullshit and dont offer stuff like bios themselves.
Sand Dan Glokta
Gold Member
The dev of Yuzu was sued, and Ryujinx was erased after a C&D from Nintendo afaik, but since they were open source they have been iterated upon and are widely available under different names but functionally the same.
Fess
Member
Yeah okay had no idea. Still imagine if Sony did the same. I think that's what we're looking at.
coffinbirth
Member
With 3.56 they fixed the problem:
PS3 firmware 3.56 hacked in less than a day, Sony's lawyers look confused (update)
Sony's taken some strong steps against PS3 cracking in the past week -- not only has it taken to the courts and won a temporary restraining order against Geohot and fail0verflow for cracking the console, but it also released firmware 3.56, which locked things down again. Unfortunately, that...www.engadget.com
Update part of the article is really interesting. That status quo (you have to be below 3.56FW to be able to "hack" the console) remained for majority of normal PS3 life. I found out that console was completely cracked just one year ago when I bought my (fourth) PS3.
But yeah, Piracy was never rampant problem on Sony consoles since PS2.
EDit post got got.
You could rollback fw once you got into fsm, but yeah games were mostly offline bc they had to be patched
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