Anticitizen One
Banned
I hope we get a new controller design this time around. Dual Shock has run its course and i hate the changes they made to it for the ps3 (super sensitive L2/R2 triggers wtf)
PSM: PS4 specs more powerful than Xbox 720
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So at the end of day, what is the point of having a new console if is not going to be head and shoulders above what the previous generation did?
Is it because there is a cycle that needs to be repeated?
I wonder if the devs could get away with creating games with sacrifices compared to PC counter parts, why don't they just stick to this generation of consoles? Major shader algorithms, AA, tessellation etc are already possible on the current gen. If the tech turns out be pretty darn old when the console finally is out are we just trading, "less sacrifice" compared to "more sacrifices" vs PC versions?
I guess we will all be running in circles speculating until the day we lay our eyes on the specs and the software...heck
Is it because there is a cycle that needs to be repeated?
I wonder if the devs could get away with creating games with sacrifices compared to PC counter parts, why don't they just stick to this generation of consoles? Major shader algorithms, AA, tessellation etc are already possible on the current gen. If the tech turns out be pretty darn old when the console finally is out are we just trading, "less sacrifice" compared to "more sacrifices" vs PC versions?
I guess we will all be running in circles speculating until the day we lay our eyes on the specs and the software...heck
XDR removed what would have been a timing/bandwidth bottleneck for the CPU. The DDR3 wasn't too slow for the Xbox's CPU, and that system ended up with a slight memory advantage because of unified and slightly more available RAM.
I have a feeling you're going to be disappointed.
The back buffer was also stored on the edram instead of main memory, plus the additional buffers needed when performing certain functions on the cell didn't help either.
Edit
Because it's the truth?
I'm not shitting on the controller, its just not easy to get an accurate reading to how many individual users have the device.
piSquaredOver6
Banned
lol so is there like some law that states that a console cant have more than like 4 ram chips?
bgassassin
Member
No, but anything more than 8 begins to become illogical.
Boss Man
Member
Improved analog sticks and slightly triggering the L2/R2 buttons would be perfect.
Basically, make those two parts of the controller slightly more like the Xbox controller and slightly less like DualShock 3.
Also, making the PS4 more powerful/expensive than the Xbox 720 is probably a bad move on Sony's part. I don't understand why these guys refuse to accept that game consoles have a price range before they really start to penetrate, and that should be the most important target.
piSquaredOver6
Banned
when will 4 gigabit chips become more common?
charlequin
Banned
If Sony launches at $500 I will never, ever stop laughing.
I have a job to go to, y'know, it would be easier if we could all just come together as a community to explain things like the PS3 being an unprecedently huge failure on a financial level (or how the 360 RROD fiasco was worse than any other hardware failure problem by orders of magnitude, or just how shitty Nintendo's online services are, etc. etc.)
cevansdust
Neo Member
They keep saying that because you can never determine the install base. With a Kinect then you know that you can sell one copy of a game to every Kinect. When Sony counts a sold wand or navigator or whatever then you have no idea. Yes it all adds up and thats great news for Sony, but there is no telling how many actual ready to go Moves are set up and waiting for a game. Plus, controllers are different to some degree with an actual system because people break and replace them or buy extras for mutiplayer. There are PS3s out there with 4 wands and navigators as well as PS3s with just a single wand. How can you ever get a clear idea about how many installed moves there are?
It's the same problem you run into with the PS2 and Xbox 360s sold. There is no telling how many of those systems were bought to replace a broken system. I had to buy 3 ps2's last gen and 4 xboxs so far.
funkystudent
Member
so has there been ANY decent ps4 rumors?
the story in the OP just seems like print media doing what they do and spreading BS but I haven't read anything from any reliable source about the ps4.
Its actually a bit worrying considering we have Xbox3 and Wii U rumors every few days.
we have even been hearing whispers about the next xbox for over a year but havent heard a peep regarding the next playstation.
guess they just havent shown it to 3rd parties yet which is when rumors normally start.
the story in the OP just seems like print media doing what they do and spreading BS but I haven't read anything from any reliable source about the ps4.
Its actually a bit worrying considering we have Xbox3 and Wii U rumors every few days.
we have even been hearing whispers about the next xbox for over a year but havent heard a peep regarding the next playstation.
guess they just havent shown it to 3rd parties yet which is when rumors normally start.
cartman414
Member
Pyrrhic victory at best. It cost them not only their lead, but also their profits from the past two gens. New tech is always expensive, but $1000 was and still is off the deep end. There was practically only one reason for it: Blu-ray. Not only were they losing massive profits on units sold, but almost everyone balked at the exorbitant entry price of $500/$600, and rightly so. Not to mention development was as much if not more of a nightmare for 3rd parties. Square-Enix took IIRC over 5 years to develop Final Fantasy XIII, not to mention Crystal Tools, with no towns to show for it.
Neo 007
Member
SolidSnakex
Member
Yeah, but they count individual pieces (as KageMaru already brought up), so it's hard to really nail down how many people really have them. But it's clear that they don't seem to be buying any of the Move exclusive software for it while you do see Kinect exclusive software selling. I think that's pretty telling in the end. That should be what stands out most to Sony.
I think that'll happen even if it isn't the beast that many of us want it to be. First party games will still be where people look to see what the system can do. But i've seen some big devs (like Epic, Crytek and DICE) mention that they do want to see someone go all out with a system (in terms of its power). So it's not just gamers that want it.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Late 2013, early 2014 seems to be the timetable. It's entirely possible that MS is forgoing a huge GPU increase to hedge bets on RAM tech being more integral that's if the timetable for Fusion is late 2013. If Sony actually releases so much later than the other two they could have significantly more RAM than either.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
Developers, like cryteck and epic, are proving that they're placing emphasis on cross platform development with their tools. This can be seen with support of the iphone, ipad, vita, etc.
If developers plan on using these toos, then they're going to be developing with the lowest common denominator in mind, in that case the wii u, with only slight changes for the nextbox and ps4. (if the ps4 and nextbox are close then it's likely that they'll create games that scale downward instead, like they do this generation)
If the wii u, and the xbox are both relatively equal in power(which rumors say they are), developers will not see a need to push the ps4 beyond the wiiu and nextbox.
Couple that with the notion of diminishing returns on visuals, that higher aa, poly counts, and higher resolution become purely numerical values with no actual benefit on visual fedility (ie a 200k poly ball has no concernable difference then a 100k poly ball) after a certian point, there will be less of a difference between the visuals on the ps4 and wii u, then this generation, regardless of the power difference between the consoles.
Other then the 1 game of every 100 that's being exclusively developed, and takes real advantage of the hardware, the difference will never become a motivating factor for unbiased consumers.
To break it down, developers wont utilize the power, like they dont utilize it on PC's today, and tools will support parity more then individual strengths of a platform. The difference will be even less noticable then the difference we see today regardless of if the power difference is higher(due to diminishing returns). Finally, the price to use such hardware is only going to be placed on the consumer causing higher prices and less competative pricing strategy. So more losses, or lower profit margins, without the visuals to help convice consumers that it's a worthy investment of the competition.
The smartest thing for them to do is create a system that's as cheap as possible and as close to the other systems, not to make a system that's more powerful, because just like in the xbox ps2 gcn days, devs will flock to the most profitable system, and gamers will too.
Unless it sells significantly better and is easier/cheaper to develop with.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
yeah, but again, you're looking at a ps2 vs gamecube and xbox scenario. It's not likely to happen again.
it has to significantly outsell both the next xbox and the wiiu, both of which will have more time on the market, and have better development tools by the time the ps4 is released.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
Developers will always cater to they least common denominator, so which ever system is the weakest expect games to look like what that console can produce UNLESS its significantly underpowered. Only 1st party and exclusives will push the graphics envelope...just my opinion of course. We saw this with the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube but the Wii eliminated this possibility from happening this gen.
SolidSnakex
Member
Yes, but the Xbox and GC ports often ran and looked better than the PS2 versions. If there is a sizable gap between the PS4 and other platforms then the same could happen. They wouldn't take advantage of the system in the same ways as first party games, but you could still look forward to stuff like higher/consistent framerates. That would be a big selling point for many hardcore gamers since multiplatform games are usually the biggest sellers.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
But that difference wont be as noticable because we as humans have a cpacity to notice only so much.
Again, if there was a 100 poly model on a ps2 version and a 150 poly model on the gamecube and xbox version, that difference is a lot more noticble then a 100K model vs a 150k model we use today, and even lesser so with a 300k and 450k model etc. So unless the ps4 is like a good 4-5 times stronger(to get a doubling of a single effect, like framrate or image resolution, we need exponetially stronger hardware), performance tweaks and some small additional features are about the only major differences. It'll be similar to looking at multiplats from this gen.
regardless it wont be worth the exspence in the long run if you're trying to compete with 2 established systems, with growing friends and users who'll tell their friends to get the same console so they can play together.
SolidSnakex
Member
You're going to notice if a game is running at 30fps with drops and another is running locked at 30fps. Just play NFS Hot Pursuit and then play any other NFS game from this generation. The framerate difference is clear. That's what i'm talking about. It's something that Sony didn't have this genreation. They can talk all they want about the PS3 being the most powerful system this generation, but people aren't seeing that when they play GTA4 and CoD. Those games have better framerates on the 360 and GTA4 runs at a higher resolution.
It will make a difference is PS4 has a clear advantage when it comes to multiplatform titles. I'm not say that they'd win that generation because of it, but it would swing some people over to them simply because they'd want want the best version of a game. DigitalFoundry/LoT wouldn't even be much of a factor anymore.
This is how I've come to feel.
As much as I've wanted next gen to start for over a year now, I'll wait two more if it means we actually get a significant leap.
I mean I could care less if the new kinect can pinpoint my finger moving. It's not selling me on upgrading day one. And what can you really do on the service end to make me shell out 250-400 dollars? IPad controller? Ok, not ground breaking.
If its not a significant jump in performance, I really don't see the point. 8 years and all we get is a minor upgrade in components?
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
probably say what MS tell them to say as they are a official mag, PSM3 thou is a independent magazine.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
I don't really think that's nearly as large of a swing factor as install base and community, price, or content. While yes a game locked at 30fps vs one that hovers is important, if they build for the LCD it'll be more like a game at 30fps and one at 40fps. Noticible, surely, impactful, questionable.
again, this is just really my take on sony producing a console that's in an awkward "more powerful" but "not powerful enough" situation that i can see occuring.
Cmd. Pishad'aç
Banned
You sir, know how shit works. I'm still pumped Sony will pull of a 600$ machine out of their asses and surprise our graphics whore side. Just to go bankrupt in style. Do it Sony!
Death Dealer
Member
I think you're overestimating that a little bit. Remember Carmack said with the Doom 4 and Rage engines, to go from 30 to 60 fps, takes 3x the power. What he specially said was by dropping to 30fps with D4, they'll be able to handle 3x as much graphics as Rage. I think 3x could be a realistic spread between Wii-U (The LCD) and PS4.
Considering price PS4 will likely cost more than Wii-U and Nintendo has been historically risk adverse to losing money on hardware, I think Sony still might be willing to start next gen with a small loss $100 or so, to ensure clear tech superiority. $100 loss the first year would't be nearly as severe as last generation, I believe it was over $300 per unit at launch. $100 means if it sells two or three games, they're back in the black. Plus PS4 won't have as high of a beginning retail price as PS3. There won't be any $600 SKUs. So it won't have that going against it. I don't even seen them going to $500. But they don't really need to lose money to have tech superiority, if it launches well over a year later, and they MSRP for more.
So hypothetically, 3rd party PS4 games could run at twice the frame rate. Or possibly twice the resolution (1080p vs 720p) on a game that was already 60 fps or doesn't benefit from more than 30fps.
So while I don't think PS4 third party games will look incredibly better, the bar is getting raised quite high even with the Wii-U, there will usually always be room for fps improvement. Next gen they will try and cram as much as they can into a game at the expense of fps, just like always.
I won't be surprised if GTA 6 is just barely 30fps on the lower end next gen systems. But it will look better than the iCE enhanced GTA4 mod.
Or hell even if PS4's not good enough to double fps or res, (3x according to Carmack) but just better the LCD by 100% (2x), that could be the difference between a somewhat janky 20-30fps game and a rock solid 30fps game.
Essentially what I'm trying to say is third party games would be better on a system, without necessarily a lot of extra developer work (key being a straightforward design), if any consoles are significantly more powerful than the LCD.
JerzeyDevil
Banned
Preferably something larger. I feel like I'm going to snap the DS3 inhalf sometimes.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Lol... that would be a first.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Cmd. Pishad'aç;34607373 said:
Good for us gamers I guess. Cheap power console
Calisto Glory
Banned
Its time for fanboy bitch wars on a journalistic level
SolidSnakex
Member
Yeah, but the Vita is still a beast as far as a handheld gaming device goes. It shows that they do know how to keep the price down while still pleasing those that want a powerful system. The initial costs of the Blu-ray player was what really did them in as far as costs go with the PS3. That isn't going to be an issue with the PS4.
if sony launches ps4 in the same year as MS launches his, they will be very similar, power wise. The only way to see one console or another being much more powerful would be one of them going the budget Wii way, or releasing more than one year later as the only thing that would justify that would be better specs.
Yes. Vita showed that Sony can design a powerful system that's also cost effective. Which is why I'm not really concerned about whether the PS4 will "cheap out" on power or that them going the power route will kill them financially. My only issue is that some think Sony's willing to eat huge losses on the PS4. Everything I've seen/heard over that past few years tells me they aren't willing because they can't afford to (and don't have to, as you eluded to).
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Back in 2006, $1000 for a Bluray player was normal. The PS3 was the cheapest Bluray player, though obviously not the best price for a home console.
The only way you can see PS4 going over $500 is if they use new, costly, and unproven physical media.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Why? I don't see the problem if PS4 is less powerful than the new XBox. It is about the games anyway.
Probably will mean 1080P and higher fps with current gen graphics. So underpowered consoles really do suck.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Breast physics, realistic panty physics, earwax accumulation... Think of the possibilities.
This.
Draconian anti consumer drm and nfc surveillance of inserted discs that lock to the first console it gets within 1 foot of. You know the things consumers want. And a gtkwebkit2.0 browser, its multi threaded don't ya know!
Well, I'd like for them to use at least 16 or so for soft body (particularly cloth and hair) physics. That should be enough to do a reasonably good job for a modest number of characters.
Indeed I also think 399$ will be the launch price.
Every thread you split image processing into adds frame lag.
Also, I don't really think v-sync is something you can thread.
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