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[jarrod]

Be prepared. I see no reason why PSP should cost in the $2xx range unless they are incompetent.

You didn't see that big ass screen?

it doesn't matter if the PSP is more expensive than the DS cause being the cheapest hasn't helped the GC against the PS2 or Xbox

Conversely it has helped GameBoy against everything....

 

[Link316]

One cannot ignore the market conditions in each situation. What if PS2 had launched at $200 against a $300 GCN?

sure Nintendo's #1 the market leader with the Gameboy, but then again the DS isn't part of the Gameboy product line, its their separate 3rd tier platform, Nintendo has no guarantee of their success from the Gameboy spilling over onto the DS anymore than Sony did with the success of the Playstation spilling over onto the PSX

 

[GDGF]

sure Nintendo's #1 the market leader with the Gameboy, but then again the DS isn't part of the Gameboy product line, its their separate 3rd tier platform, Nintendo has no guarantee of their success from the Gameboy spilling over onto the DS anymore than Sony did with the success of the Playstation spilling over onto the PSX

The public isn't going to see it that way. They'll see a machine that plays their GBA library and next generation NDS games (plus those features of it are a definite hook) and, well, lets just say GB consumers seem to love the product, what with their tendancy to buy each and every new version in great number. Plus Nintendo got the price right with the NDS, making it affordable to do so.

Sony didn't do this with the PSX, and it appears like they didn't do it with the PSP either. Hell, this time around it seems like sony is their own worst enemy.

 

[GaimeGuy]

If you were selling something to me for $5, but it cost you $7 to make it, wouldn't it be less expensive for you not to sell it to me in the first place?

No, cause then you have something that you made for seven dollars, and didn't get any revenue off of. $0 revenue - $7 costs = $-7.
If it DID sell to you, only $2 would have been lost off of the item.

God, people are stupid. -_-

 

[snapty00]

I think comparing the PSP to the PSX is extremely useless. Regardless of the $300 pricetag (which is high), and regardless of how the PSX performed, the PSP is almost certainly going to be a major force in the handheld market.

 

[human5892]

No, cause then you have something that you made for seven dollars, and didn't get any revenue off of. $0 revenue - $7 costs = $-7.
If it DID sell to you, only $2 would have been lost off of the item.

...of course, the unsaid implication is that if he was not going to sell it to me in the first place, he wouldn't have made it.

God, people are stupid. -_-

Quite right.

 

[Mashing]

I know it won't happen and that's 100% impossible. But imagine Sony released the system worldwide @ 100$.
End of Nintendo ?

Maybe in a world where there isn't dumping laws

 

[GaimeGuy]

...of course, the unsaid implication is that if he was not going to sell it to me in the first place, he wouldn't have made it.

There's a difference between not selling something and not making something.

 

[JJConrad]

No, cause then you have something that you made for seven dollars, and didn't get any revenue off of. $0 revenue - $7 costs = $-7.
If it DID sell to you, only $2 would have been lost off of the item.

God, people are stupid. -_-

The problem with that is Sony isn't going to make more than they can sell. Its cheaper to not make the $7 product, than it is to make it and sell it for $5.

No one should expect the PSP for less than $200. Handhelds have never had the tie ratio to make up a large loss in hardware. Single player machines won't have a high tie ratio.

 

[BreakyBoy]

No one should expect the PSP for less than $200. Handhelds have never had the tie ratio to make up a large loss in hardware. Single player machines won't have a high tie ratio.

Thank god someone mentioned this. I was about to donkey punch the lot of you for not making that point after that big thread lamenting the software-to-hardware tie-in ratio for the GBA line.

 

[kaching]

The public isn't going to see it that way. They'll see a machine that plays their GBA library and next generation NDS games (plus those features of it are a definite hook) and, well, lets just say GB consumers seem to love the product, what with their tendancy to buy each and every new version in great number. Plus Nintendo got the price right with the NDS, making it affordable to do so.

The public could see it many ways. They're not just of one mind and, the last I checked, the public didn't all own GBAs.

With the NDS launching months before the PSP, members of the public will only have the GBA to compare directly against and could just as easily see a product who's price is double that of the GBA but who's battery life maxes out at 10hrs, rather than achieving that as a minimum like the GBA does. That of course is just me adhering to the message you've been trying to pound home about the importance of battery life and price. If GBA is the gold standard at this point, then NDS falls significantly short. Can't have your cake and eat it too, LW.

 

[GaimeGuy]

The public could see it many ways. They're not just of one mind and, the last I checked, the public didn't all own GBAs.

With the NDS launching months before the PSP, members of the public will only have the GBA to compare directly against and could just as easily see a product who's price is double that of the GBA but who's battery life maxes out at 10hrs, rather than achieving that as a minimum like the GBA does. That of course is just me adhering to the message you've been trying to pound home about the importance of battery life and price. If GBA is the gold standard at this point, then NDS falls significantly short. Can't have your cake and eat it too, LW.

The GBA SP, for me, is more around 7-8 hours with the sound up and the light, so 6-10 hours really isn't much of a big change for me.

 

[TKM]

The problem with that is Sony isn't going to make more than they can sell. Its cheaper to not make the $7 product, than it is to make it and sell it for $5.

That only works if all costs are variable. Rent, administrative staff, fabs, R&D expense, are independent of sales volume in the short term. Suppose out of that $7, 4 dollars goes to direct labor and materials and 3 dollars are fixed costs (based on a budgeted projection of units sold). Selling a unit would be a $2 loss, not selling would result in $3 loss. It would then be to their advantage to sell as many as they can to spread out that fixed cost. Of course, over the long term the unit can't sell below cost and would have to be redesigned or discontinued. But over the short term, it can make sense to keep pushing units out at a loss.

 

[GDGF]

The GBA SP, for me, is more around 7-8 hours with the sound up and the light, so 6-10 hours really isn't much of a big change for me.

Bingo. The GBA is 8-10, the NDS is 6-10. That two hour difference is likely a wifi estimate, and we all know the 8-10 of a GBA actually goes a few hours more than that. Nintendo has the power consumption/ battery life issue handled.

 

[kaching]

The GBA SP, for me, is more around 7-8 hours with the sound up and the light, so 6-10 hours really isn't much of a big change for me.

Official Nintendo literature cites 10 hrs minimum for GBA SP with light on. 18 without. So 10-18 hrs.

If you're getting less than official Nintendo literature for the GBA SP then you can't rule out the possibility that you'll get less than what Nintendo has officially claimed for the DS as well.

 

[GDGF]

The public could see it many ways. They're not just of one mind and, the last I checked, the public didn't all own GBAs.

Judging by the instaled base, they all just might

 

[human5892]

There's a difference between not selling something and not making something.

Yes, but the analogy was for the PSP -- why would Sony make PSP, but then not sell it?

 

[jarrod]

I usually get about 12 hours from GBA with the light on (never play with it off). Nintendo has a history of conservative/real world system specs, I'd assume that'd spill over to battery expectations... but really there tons of variable factors. Processor intensive games (usually 3D) will be a significantly bigger drainer even on GBA and recharging habits can affect the Li-ion too from what I understand.

 

[human5892]

... and recharging habits can affect the Li-ion too from what I understand.

Aren't you supposed to drain the battery all the way down before charging it again, or something like that?

With my luck, that's exactly what you aren't supposed to do, meaning I'll have been screwing my GBA SP battery all this time.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Yes, but the analogy was for the PSP -- why would Sony make PSP, but then not sell it?

well they can't control if the consumer actually purchases their item directly, now can they?

When you say that they don't sell the item, I assume you mean that they FAIL in selling it, not that they don't put it on the market.

 

[JJConrad]

That only works if all costs are variable. Rent, administrative staff, fabs, R&D expense, are independent of sales volume in the short term. Suppose out of that $7, 4 dollars goes to direct labor and materials and 3 dollars are fixed costs (based on a budgeted projection of units sold). Selling a unit would be a $2 loss, not selling would result in $3 loss. It would then be to their advantage to sell as many as they can to spread out that fixed cost. Of course, over the long term the unit can't sell below cost and would have to be redesigned or discontinued. But over the short term, it can make sense to keep pushing units out at a loss.

That's all true, but it doesn't fit this scenario. When people mention hardware manufacturing costs they rarely include R&D (as its viewed as an investment) and adminstration cost (written off in other expenses). The $7 product costs $7 to make and more for that other stuff.

With the original idea of Sony selling PSP at a $100, Sony is would be losing money from just the labor and materials per unit by itself. Adminstrative costs would be added on top of that.


This debate is moot, because Sony is not going to release the system so cheap.

 

[The Bookerman]

 

[Kiriku]

Maybe Sony are cool enough to wait with the price announcement until NDS is out. Then they would know for sure that Nintendo will keep their price, since it would be unfair to lower the NDS price just a month or so after actually releasing it.

 

[teiresias]

I don't understand why people think Sony is all reacting to the DS price anyway. The DS was always going to launch before the PSP, so no matter what price the PSP launches at Nintendo was always going to be able to react and counter that price with a price-drop of some sort. It's not like the situation is any different now than it would have been before. The price issue is still the same variable it's always been in terms of DS vs. PSP.

 

[Deg]

well the price isnt official yet so anything can happen yet.

 

[DCharlie]

"I don't understand why people think Sony is all reacting to the DS price anyway. The DS was always going to launch before the PSP, so no matter what price the PSP launches at Nintendo was always going to be able to react and counter that price with a price-drop of some sort. It's not like the situation is any different now than it would have been before. The price issue is still the same variable it's always been in terms of DS vs. PSP."

but perhaps sony misjudged the price of the DS?

maybe they expected it to be 20,000 yen, so 33,000 yen (lets face it, this WAS to be announced, and the executive committees 20 minute emergency meeting before the announcement seem s to add even more weigh to this) does look quite that bad....

but 33000 vs 15000... that looks pretty bad.

I don't buy Kutaragi's "oh we want to see what people think of it first" excuse for a single second.

 

[kaching]

Judging by the instaled base, they all just might

Might? Considering that you started with an unequivocal, "The public isn't going to see it that way," that's not a rebuttal

 

[GDGF]

Might? Considering that you started with an unequivocal, "The public isn't going to see it that way," that's not a rebuttal

I ment that they all just might already own a GBASP, judging by the size of the userbase.

I was being cocky. (the funny is debatable )

 

[kaching]

Yes, but not quite as cocky as before

 

[Insertia]

I don't understand why people think Sony is all reacting to the DS price anyway. The DS was always going to launch before the PSP, so no matter what price the PSP launches at Nintendo was always going to be able to react and counter that price with a price-drop of some sort. It's not like the situation is any different now than it would have been before. The price issue is still the same variable it's always been in terms of DS vs. PSP.

Nintendo won't be able to drop DS's price at the drop of a dime. They aren't only competeting with PSP, but GBA also.

Drop DS's price too low and say goodbye to your 'first pilar' and profit cow, GBA.

 

[Go Go Ackman!]

A message to those who somehow think that DS is going to own PSP, regardless of price or battery life:

You are living in the land of make-believe, in a gumdrop house on lollipop lane.

This thing is going to kick nintendo in the ass. You think a hefty price tag is gonna keep this thing from selling? Today at school I saw like 3 people carrying similarly-priced ipods (which are limited to playing music).

People who think PSP is doomed to fail based on price are probably the same ones that said blu-ray would be far too expensive to be included in PS3. I think you underestimate the disposable income of PSP's target market, Sony's marketing muscle, and dozens of other factors that earlier handhelds lacked when put against the gameboy.

 

[GigaDrive]

I admit, PSP is by far the greatest threat Nintendo's strangle-hold on the portable market has ever faced.

if PSP fails to hurt Nintendo, probaby no other handheld effort ever will.

 

[sprsk]

A message to those who somehow think that DS is going to own PSP, regardless of price or battery life:

You are living in the land of make-believe, in a gumdrop house on lollipop lane.

This thing is going to kick nintendo in the ass. You think a hefty price tag is gonna keep this thing from selling? Today at school I saw like 3 people carrying similarly-priced ipods (which are limited to playing music).

People who think PSP is doomed to fail based on price are probably the same ones that said blu-ray would be far too expensive to be included in PS3. I think you underestimate the disposable income of PSP's target market, Sony's marketing muscle, and dozens of other factors that earlier handhelds lacked when put against the gameboy.

people people people.

stop comparing this to the ipod.

can you watch movies when you walk to class? can you play games while you jog? can you play games in your car?

no! you cant! when you are out are you going to be playing games? NO! you wont be! people arent gonna spend 300 dollars on something they hardly use! I have a hard time convincing people to spend 79 dollars on a damn gbasp!

 

[Shoryuken]

A message to those who somehow think that DS is going to own PSP, regardless of price or battery life:

You are living in the land of make-believe, in a gumdrop house on lollipop lane.

This thing is going to kick nintendo in the ass. You think a hefty price tag is gonna keep this thing from selling? Today at school I saw like 3 people carrying similarly-priced ipods (which are limited to playing music).

People who think PSP is doomed to fail based on price are probably the same ones that said blu-ray would be far too expensive to be included in PS3. I think you underestimate the disposable income of PSP's target market, Sony's marketing muscle, and dozens of other factors that earlier handhelds lacked when put against the gameboy.

Wow you'd have a really good point except for the fact that the GBA has sold 50 million in the same time it took the IPod to sell 3 million.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Wow you'd have a really good point if the fact that the GBA has sold 50 million in the same time it took the IPod to sell 3 million.

55 million, not 50. :|

 

[DSN2K]

Kids with rich parents >>>>>> teens with money

Nintendo's market is alot bigger while Sony are stuck in a very tight corner.

 

[kaching]

Neither of those are the market that Sony is marketing to initially.

 

[xsarien]

Kids with rich parents >>>>>> teens with money

Nintendo's market is alot bigger while Sony are stuck in a very tight corner.

Nintendo's said that they're aiming the DS at the Teens With Money market too. They might be finally learning after all.

 

[john tv]

DS > PSP

 

[TTP]

PSP > DS

Go on

 

[P90]

I know it won't happen and that's 100% impossible. But imagine Sony released the system worldwide @ 100$.
End of Nintendo ?

End of Sony. Sony is not in the financial shape to take those sort of losses. Also, Pikachu and pals>>>>>>>>>fancy screen and a MG card game.

 

[human5892]

When you say that they don't sell the item, I assume you mean that they FAIL in selling it, not that they don't put it on the market.

Your assumption was your undoing!

This debate is moot, because Sony is not going to release the system so cheap

That, too. I probably shouldn't have made an analogy for an unrealistic hypothetical situation in the first place.

 

[Brofist]

NO! you wont be! people arent gonna spend 300 dollars on something they hardly use! I have a hard time convincing people to spend 79 dollars on a damn gbasp!

Your approach is probably all wrong. You don't convince people who don't own a GBA SP yet to buy it...you convince the hardcore Nin fans to buy their 5th different color special edition one.

 

[Lord Error]

End of Sony.

To rephrase the 'crazy $100 situation' to something more tangible - would, say, one billion dollars lost on PSP, really be the end for Sony. Especially if that means a nice control over the handheld market later on. Much like Microsoft, they don't seem to have problems giving huge amounts of money on projects that might bring them profit only 10-20 years down the line.

Now, for one, I think selling PSP for $100 would incur them losses of at least $300 per unit, which would amount to a lot more than one billion lost - very quickly. It would be a completely crazy idea, IMO, and one that would also cost them the DOJ lawsuit from their competition.

Be prepared. I see no reason why PSP should cost in the $2xx range unless they are incompetent.

Please tell me you are joking... When was the last time you visited any electronics store? Are all electronics companies in the world incompetent?

 

[Agent Dormer]

yeah right. I'll eat my socks if the PSP is under $200.

Me too. No way the PSP will be under $200 unless Sony wants to give the product away.

 

[Chittagong]

For under 200USD and projected sales of 4 million, Sony will take a hit of at least 300 million USD in the first quarter it's out only only. Think Sony is in the Microsoft mode?

 

[nubbe]

Compare a company struggling to keep out of the red to MS?

 

[snapty00]

Is Sony even really going to break even at $300? I really doubt it. First, it's got a huge, gorgeous screen. It really is one of the most clear, vibrant screens to grace a handheld device.

Second, it's extremely powerful.

Third, it's packed all that power into a tiny space.

Fourth, a lot of the technology is proprietary to Sony and not off-the-shelf like Nintendo's components are.

Fifth, it has a more complicated medium-reading mechanism since it uses discs.

To actually make a profit, I think they'd probably have to charge something like $400.

 

[Insertia]

For under 200USD and projected sales of 4 million, Sony will take a hit of at least 300 million USD in the first quarter it's out only only. Think Sony is in the Microsoft mode?

What is the manufacturing cost of PSP?

 

[Sho Nuff]

I still don't think PSP will ship this year. And if they do, it'll be mega rushed and there will be like, only two units for sale.

I wonder if this will be an "oops" like the PocketStation or a high-end hit with rich consumers?

BTW, FUCK memory stick, and DOUBLE FUCK memory stick pro.