HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
How did they manage to make this look even more ugly than the original design? Are they trying to one up each other or what
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This is an Xbox: CES reveals new Xbox-licensed controller that looks the same as Dualsense
- Thread starter LectureMaster
- Start date
- Hardware
VitoNotVito
Member
Can someone explain to me why "it doesn't feel comfortable"? Is there a single person with a left thumb significantly longer than the right one?
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Esppiral
Member
That is not how it works, people look at the symmetry and gets confused, primary buttons are in the same plane, and secondary buttons in another plane, so yea, that is wrong and has nothing to to with the length of your thumbs.
Unknown?
Member
They already have. Here's an idea why don't they have start and select off set too? RT could be on top and pointing upwards with LT in the ususal bottom placement.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
No, it's a matter of thumb naturally goes when you're holding a controller. On the DS it feels like you're stretching your thumb out at all times, on the Xbox pad the left analog stick, the one used most often, and the buttons, are in the plane where the thumbs naturally rest.
Thankfully not, not on an official level at least.
Unknown?
Member
If the left stick is where the thumb naturally rests then for FPS games it must be uncomfortable to stretch your thumb for the right stick to turn your camera, unless you use the buttons for movement like on a Dreamcast controller.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
In general someone is using the left analog stick a lot more than anything else on the controller. Dualshock/sense layout just makes it feel like you're crimping your hands in extended play.
The XB layout, and the ergonomics of the pad in general, are more comfortable.
ResilientBanana
Member
clearly money wasn't something they needed when they designed this thing.
Unknown?
Member
Nah, hard disagree and in the genre that the gamepad was made for, the right stick is used just as much. We don't use RT/LT for camera like on early 3D platformers.
alabtrosMyster
Member
Dual Sense 4, black.
That's what it should be.
That's what it should be.
VitoNotVito
Member
Goes where? One of the stick on xbox controllers is higher than the other one...
That's why I don't understand this dumb argument that "it's natural." My thumbs are "naturally" the same length.
MiguelItUp
Member
"Licensed" doesn't really mean anything these days. I feel like a number of previous licensed controllers were also pretty ass-y. This one is no different.
They should lean more into what makes their own controllers special, don't lean into competitors, lol.
They should lean more into what makes their own controllers special, don't lean into competitors, lol.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
My thumbs are also 'naturally' the same length, but when I'm holding the pad, my left thumb is in a position that rests over the analog stick, for symmetrical pads I am stretching my left thumb out to reach the analog stick.
I can't account for everyone's preference, this is just how it works better and feels more comfortable to me.
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Illustrated example:
wipeout364
Member
When Sony made the dual analog in 1997 the d pad was the primary method of controlling games which was in the upper left. Very few games supported analog so this was an extra control method. For some reason Sony just kept it there for the pS2 and then when Xbox launched they didn’t want to be thought of changing in response to Xbox. Now we have this legacy placement in a position no other manufacturer uses because it’s not as ergonomic.
You are free to believe that Sony just nailed it on their niche controller they released in 1997 but my read on the situation is what I wrote.
You are free to believe that Sony just nailed it on their niche controller they released in 1997 but my read on the situation is what I wrote.
Bradamante3D
Member
That thing looks like those Android phones they are selling in China, imitating Apple's iPhone with both the hardware design and an iOS Android skin, so that people who can't afford iPhones are still getting a status symbol.
cash_longfellow
Member
Bruh…blatant rip off 
polybius80
Member
that is game dependent, a first/third person shooter game which is usually the most intense competitive games requires you to change your aim constantly as your enemy is constantly moving around you and in both controllers that is done with the right stick which is in the same place, same place sticks is never a problem in steamdeck, wii controllers(the complete controllers that connects to wiimotes) or wiiu(if you had one)
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I don't know how to break the science behind it, it just works better for me
Using Steam as a platform where all kinds of controllers are supported, it seems like more people agree with me. The Xbox pad is more than twice higher than the nearest competitor in the most used controller type.
- 59% of sessions are using Xbox controllers
- 26% are using PlayStation controllers
- 10% are on Steam Decks
March Climber
Member
They’re going to jump through hoops to answer this in a way that makes sense, especially the ones who say ‘left stick being higher feels better for shooters’.
The shooter crowd should be saying that the Wii U pro controller is the most optimal, but they won’t admit this.
The reason I know all of this is because we had an asymmetrical vs symmetrical thread about a year+ ago. Same statements, same reasoning.
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polybius80
Member
then its preference not science
you say it works for you(preference) and now bring steam statistics, is that as some kind of "appealing to authority" to somehow say one is worse because science you cannot explain?
maybe you forgot xbox layout was pushed to be the standard some years ago not for sticks placement but for button naming wich still is a problem in many games when not using a steamdeck or xbox layout labeled buttons, if there were some science that say one is wrong or "problematic" or that people get "confused with symmetry" then we would see that layout dying out not gaining more popularity with third party controllers using it like this new controller
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yes, all of my posts have been pretty clear about things working better for my preference, I can't explain the science behind why some posters need to know how symmetrical sticks don't work better.
I don't know how you can conclude that this one third party vendor controller shows that it's gaining more popularity ..
That's like me saying that because third party vendors also make officially licensed asymmetrical controllers for PS5, clearly it shows asymmetry is gaining popularity even in the PS userbase.
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polybius80
Member
so the "science" is about explaining the "need to know"
"symmetrical sticks don't work better" they work the same, what works better is a matter of preference and its personal as there are left handed people and right handed, the problem is that BS mental gymnastics so say that symmetrical is worse when in fact some of the most demanding game genres require a more intensive use of the right stick and is in the same place in both controllers
not just because this vendor, but is the layout dying out then? apparently not as the steamdeck which is a relative new product now is 10% in the statistic of controllers you brought, so apparently there is not a problem inherently with stick placement as also other vendors use it such as valve if there were something wrong it wont be used at all or less considered by hardware makers even the same company you got the statistics from
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Not really a BS argument if it works better for me.
The left hand is on a more relaxed position in the asymmetrical layout and it's easier to keep the analog stick pointing up, or forward, which is pretty much the most common thing everyone does, so it feels more comfortable to have it in a spot where your thumb is not being stretched outward like the symmetrical design.
If you have both controllers and preferably the same game to test them on, you can test it yourself. On the symmetrical layout, keeping the left analog in a straight 'up' position requires work, and it naturally drifts a bit left and right, compared to an asymmetrical design.
Compared to that, the right stick is used for far mode calculated movements, so it not being in the same rested position isn't the same thing.
The same company also shows the Xbox layout still being by far the most used one, despite DS4 and beyond being prominent players in the market since 2013 .. that and the best selling console at the moment, Switch, uses the asymmetrical design, as will Switch 2 going by the mockups, so I'm not sure where you were going with that argument but it doesn't prove anything one way or the other.
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tl;dr , everyone has their preferences, in my experience asymmetrical design is much better for most genres of games.
Crayon
Member
Try twice a year for 20 years!!!!!
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Damn, son. Who shat in your coffee this morning?
Oppoi
Member
Like I've said before, you've become less entertaining than a meme of yourself.
Skifi28
Member
Considering xbox controller were pretty much the only real way to go on PC for so many years due to compatibility reasons, the surprising part is how much traction PS ones have gained now that you don't need to jump through hoops to get them to work. I wouldn't be surprised if they surpass them in a few years. I think the percentages say little about preference and more about how many people haven't had to replace their old controllers yet. I know I still have an ancient 360 one connected on my rig.
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March Climber
Member
True, but the Wii U Pro controller wasn’t out for those 20. The Wii U pro controller is really what put a wrench into the argument and exposed certain people for not admitting they simply have a preference/got used to a certain controller.
Zacfoldor
Member
There are several reasons I think the XSX is the worst controller. Battery compartment exists. Batteries required. No modern features. I mean, even the non-bundled Switch Pro controller shits all over the thing.
The ONLY thing it had going for it was asymmetrical analog stick placement.
WTF, lol.
The ONLY thing it had going for it was asymmetrical analog stick placement.
WTF, lol.
polybius80
Member
not really, that depends where the hand rests, if you have to extend your thumb too much from the natural position to point up then can get uncomfortable after a while and directions like down require to contract your thumb as it is not in the natural position also depends the game and the rest of the controller design, if the stick is in a low position then all directions are a little movement from the natural position without distinction just like the right stick where you expect to make similar movement no matter the direction, this is specially problematic in small hands as the palm can get moving from the rest position just to move the stick, if the shape of the controller makes your hand being in the same place as the right then it makes less effort to have the left stick donw just like the the right stick, in the controller with sticks in the top part like the steamdeck the shape of the controller make the rest for the palm different and the thumb natural position changes so its ok, in asymmetrical designs controller the palms should rest in different positions to account for the change in the stick to make it as confortable but they rarely do that, not that is a problem to play but it is not a better design than symmetrycal
I prefer being able to make calculated and precise movements with the left stick too as there are many genres that use that and also genres that give extra benefits with it
tell that to valve
the switch was designed to use the controller as detachable independent not only it forces to use them in that position they dont even have a dpad and instead 4 independent buttons, I am not sure why you mention the switch as it doesnt add any argument
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
It doesn’t bother me that they made a controller that looks like the competitions.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Classiest looking controller in their lineup.
Rockondevil
Member
Now I just need Sony to make an asymmetrical controller and maybe I’ll get one for the couple of games I’d play.
Fluffytheterrible
Neo Member
ill stick with the gamesir g7 se lmao