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PSSR Is Better Than AMD FSR, on Par with DLSS/XeSS, Says Dev

Lunatic_Gamer

Gold Member
Enlisted-PS5Pro-HD-scaled.jpg


Gaijin Entertainment has not one but two games enhanced for Sony's newly released PS5 Pro console at launch: the first-person tactical multiplayer WWII shooter Enlisted, originally released in 2020, and the vehicle combat multiplayer game War Thunder, which has been continuously updated since 2013.

To learn how both games have been improved to leverage the most powerful console hardware currently on the market, we interviewed Gergo Horvath, a Graphics Programmer on Gaijin's proprietary Dagor Engine for over four years.



What's the single feature you were most impressed with?

While the ~45% faster rendering is impressive alone, the real game changer, in my opinion, is the addition of the Machine Learning Architecture that made PSSR possible. By being able to render in lower resolutions and yet get the same visual fidelity we can free up a tremendous amount of resources. This tech will be especially useful when paired with ray tracing.

Compared to the jump between PS4 Pro and PS4, would you say the PS5 Pro-PS5 difference is similar or reduced (e.g., the advancement is more or less significant)?

I’d say the difference between the PS5 Pro and the PS5 is less substantial compared to the difference between the last-gen console and its Pro counterpart. In the PS5 Pro, we have little to no change in CPU performance, and while the GPU got a nice boost, the difference is much less significant: the PS4 Pro had more than doubled the nominal power of its predecessor's GPU (in terms of TFLOPS). With that being said, back then, the goal was to achieve 4K gaming. This time, it looks like the main focus was on providing substantially better ray tracing. Goal achieved in both cases.

How much of an improvement is there between the PS5 and PS5 Pro versions of the game? Can you share specific details on the target resolution and frame rate and whether there will be multiple modes to choose from?

For the PS5 Pro’s release of Enlisted, we have switched from a fixed resolution to using dynamic resolution together with upscaling techniques for both the Base and the Pro version of the console to make sure we have a stable frame rate at all times while the internal rendering resolution is automatically adjusted. This made 4K@120FPS gaming possible for PS5 Pro players. On the PS5 Pro, this will mean higher rendering resolution, which will lead to more detail rich and sharper visuals. With the faster memory, we could use higher resolution textures and better looking global illumination, which together enhance details even further.

Upscaling from the internal rendering resolution to the display’s resolution is taken care of by our own TAAU implementation for Base PS5, but we are using PSSR for the Pro version. PSSR, of course, does a better job. For the PS5 Pro’s release of War Thunder we’ll offer the opportunity to play the game at 4K@120FPS resolution from day one. More visual updates will follow with the next major update release in a week, and even more are under development.

Are you using PSSR? What do you think about it compared to other upscalers like NVIDIA DLSS, AMD FSR, and Intel XeSS?

We’re currently using it in Enlisted. During development and playtesting, we’ve found PSSR to be on par with NVIDIA DLSS and Intel XeSS, the other two ML based super resolution methods. While in my opinion PSSR produces less blur, ghosting, and unwanted flicker compared to AMD FSR. These technologies are constantly improving, so I find it impressive that the first version of PSSR is already head-to-head with other more mature solutions.

How does the PS5 Pro version stack with the maxed-out PC game? Will the PS5 Pro version feature the highest graphics settings available on PC?

Let’s say we are about 75% to being maxed-out for Enlisted. We’ll give our estimate for War Thunder later when we’ll have all our visual updates implemented.

The big controversy about Sony's new console is pricing. Based on the hardware, do you believe it to be fair or excessive?

It’s always up to the gamers to decide whether the console pricing is up to their expectations or not. Calculating a “fair price” by assessing hardware alone does not make much sense, as gamers usually make their decision based on new experiences offered by a device, and not based on the hardware alone.

 

Mr Moose

Member
🤷‍♂️


That's what it's felt like to me too based on everything I've seen too.
the difference is much less significant: the PS4 Pro had more than doubled the nominal power of its predecessor's GPU (in terms of TFLOPS). With that being said, back then, the goal was to achieve 4K gaming. This time, it looks like the main focus was on providing substantially better ray tracing. Goal achieved in both cases.
Talking about TFLOPS.
 
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twilo99

Gold Member
This is all software and will continue to evolve… FSR is not the same if was 2 years ago and it will not be the same 6 months from now

Edit. Yes, I know you need specific hardware but the software will evolve regardless.
 
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yogaflame

Member
🤷‍♂️


That's what it's felt like to me too based on everything I've seen too.
I think what they mean is the Tflop and cpu. But PSSR ML is what's important and that is the real game changer if I interpret there comment about ps5 pro. PSSR ML is just new just 1.0 compared too a more advance state of DLSS. Wait within one year for PSSR ML to evolve more and learn more tricks to upgrade and adjust games.
 
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Zathalus

Member
This is all software and will continue to evolve… FSR is not the same if was 2 years ago and it will not be the same 6 months from now

Edit. Yes, I know you need specific hardware but the software will evolve regardless.
FSR will get an immediate boost in quality once they switch to a ML model. Hopefully sooner then later.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
PSSR is not on par with DLSS but it's pretty good.

Can't wait to see what DLSS 4 will bring.

You don’t need to know more than a dev. DLSS is better. There really is no argument.
Saying it's on par isn't very controversial to me.

However, PSSR so far has mostly been seen at higher resolutions where even FSR is good enough. I really want to see more of it at lower resolutions (sub-1080p) where the real challenge is even for DLSS.

This is important because as the generation winds down and games get more ambitious, devs might have to dial back the internal res even on the Pro and PSSR needs to hold at 720p-1080p.

Alan Wake 2 will be an interesting comparison.
 
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Klosshufvud

Member
I think FSR, even 3.0 is mostly garbage. Way too many artifacts and in motion creates distorted images. I usually just lower the resolution and just reap the performance gains if DLSS/TSR is not available. FSR has a performance cost too. Not worth it.
 

Bojji

Member
What are you basing this on?

DF comparison of Ratchet showed this. PSSR had some advantages when it comes to anti aliasing but DLSS was MUCH more stable and with less artifacts.

Overall, PSSR is close. But of course developers are already breaking algorithm with 800p games lol.
 

AzekZero

Member
I

I mean it's not really a surprise? We've been saying that AI upscaling is amazing for years. I've even said twice this week I can't wait to see console owners see the magic of it.
I'm really hoping Switch 2 goes all-in on DLSS framegen support. Not only would we get chances to play classic games at high refresh, but we'd probably see broader support for framegen from game developers.
 

MarkMe2525

Gold Member
"Better than FSR" is a low bar to clear. Regardless, it's great to see this technology finally make it's way to consoles. I expected MS to utilize the ML hardware in their Series gpu's, that they touted frequently around launch, to do something similar, but they either can't or are not interested.
 

ap_puff

Member
DF comparison of Ratchet showed this. PSSR had some advantages when it comes to anti aliasing but DLSS was MUCH more stable and with less artifacts.

Overall, PSSR is close. But of course developers are already breaking algorithm with 800p games lol.
No, i have seen the comparisons and agree, but it sounded like he was just taking it as an article of faith lol
 

buenoblue

Member
Fsr2 ain't that bad, Devs are just abusing it by using 720p or even lower to upscale to 4k. Wait till some Dev uses pssr with base resolution of 720p, I bet it will look like ass. DLss looks bad at that resolution to on my big 65inch TV.
 

xenosys

Member
DLSS seems to be a little better right now. However, PSSR will continue to improve as updates are released.

It's good to see Sony with a good ML upscaler right off the bat though and not having to resort to using FSR in it's current state.
 

vkbest

Member
"Better than FSR" is a low bar to clear. Regardless, it's great to see this technology finally make it's way to consoles. I expected MS to utilize the ML hardware in their Series gpu's, that they touted frequently around launch, to do something similar, but they either can't or are not interested.
Series X is around 50 tops. In comparison IA accelerator from PS5 Pro is 300 tops. Nvidia series 2000 (DLSS2) over 200 tops. Series X IA accelerator is not fast enough to accelerate those models
 
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MarkMe2525

Gold Member
Series X is around 50 tops. In comparison IA accelerator from PS5 Pro is 300 tops. Nvidia series 2000 (DLSS2) over 200 tops. Series X IA accelerator is not fast enough to accelerate those models
They obviously couldn't do the same thing, with their limited ML hardware. I was referring to other techniques, like the ML texture upscaling they showed off during the build up the Series consoles launch.

 

TrebleShot

Member
Fsr2 ain't that bad, Devs are just abusing it by using 720p or even lower to upscale to 4k. Wait till some Dev uses pssr with base resolution of 720p, I bet it will look like ass. DLss looks bad at that resolution to on my big 65inch TV.
Alan Wake 2 isn't far off. In perf mode it's like 846p resolves in a very sharp and nice upscaled 4k like image. Essentially performance mode from dlss.
 

phant0m

Member
great start for PSSR
I agree. Stellar Blade looks mighty crisp on 77" OLED.

Haven't seen FSR3 really but FSR 2.1 and below was dogshit compared to DLSS or even XeSS

next gen pssr is going to be fucking amazing

really hoping next gen is the one where we platform holders say 60 fps minimum to get approval. or at least, "all games must have a mode that runs at a stable 60 fps".

really tired of the 30 fps or "we target 60 but mostly run mid 50s and dip into the 40s" modes
 
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diffusionx

Gold Member
next gen pssr is going to be fucking amazing
current gen pssr is amazing.
really hoping next gen is the one where we platform holders say 60 fps minimum to get approval. or at least, "all games must have a mode that runs at a stable 60 fps".

really tired of the 30 fps or "we target 60 but mostly run mid 50s and dip into the 40s" modes
I really hope next gen is the end to these fucking graphics modes. Just leave it up to the devs to decide how their game is shown. This is seriously the worst trend and needs to stop.
 
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I'm really happy with the improvements I've seen so far and for me it was definitely worth the money. 60fps Baldur's Gate 3 in split screen (outside of the city) is such a massive improvement especially when playing on an OLED display.

PSSR is the real deal too. It's such a drastic improvement over FSR in all cases I've seen. I'll never use that shit again. Even on Steam Deck I'd rather turn it off and have the frame hit.

Although I have the PC version of Dragons Dogma 2, I'm thinking of picking it up on PS5 for the improvements and just to see all of those awesome looking beasts on the big screen.
 
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