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Puzzle & Dragons |OT4| Co-op Edition: Stoning With Friends

Bladelaw

Member
I'm not sure why Escha is getting D. Kali levels of votes. I expected it, because the community loves her, but I don't really understand it. D. Kali is a key sub on multiple top tier Arena 2 teams. Escha's main team, YomiDra, has long since fallen out of favor and arguably isn't all that good in Arena 2. Clearable, but there are better leads of her color. Panda has long since become the best dark lead and she really doesn't get a boost from Escha. You can't even point to a plethora of teams Escha boosts. She's pretty situational since OE has fallen a bit by the wayside once again. Akechi is far more key and versatile to every dark team at this point.

The only thing she really has is her 6* GFE status, but there are others that offer similar niche strength in that rarity. Scheat and Kanna fulfill similarly niche roles on teams as strong or stronger than Escha's and are also 6* GFE's. Escha is good, but I really don't get the 'king sub' status she's getting ascribed. The fact she's so high up and Gadius is a bubble pick is kinda shocking.

She's not an S rank sub on every team and certainly not the highest tiers but she works on pretty much every dark team. Even if she's off type in A. Pandora you can slot her in and she'll put in work by either flooding the board with dark or ensuring 100% enhance skyfall (flat ~30% damage increase). AA Luci, Yomidra, A. Yomi, and A Haku are all still solid leads and Eschamali works on all of them.

I'm also not sure the entire voting populous is gearing for Arena/2 or are aware of the 4 Gentlemen. As you said she's good (I'd say great). She's easier to use than D. Kali as well (even if not as strong). I don't agree with her spot at number 1 and certainly not by the current margin, but I can see why she's there.

Akechi is great too but lacks the stats and awakenings till he gets an uevo. He's 100% about his active (which is absurdly good).

Everyone in the top 25 is really good in their slot. If Ra makes top 25 I'm going to scream though. I have 5 I don't need any more. I'd trade for an Isis in a heart beat.

Looking at the top 25 reminds me that red won't have a super strong lead until Xiang Mei. Shiva is really good and carried me to where I can clear most things now but the Rush and high level challenge dungeons really show that he has a hard damage cap. Only Gadius really qualifies as the other red leader in the bunch and he's out classed by quite a bit.

Blue has Ryunii, Light has ADQXQ (eventually) and Thor/Saria (both missing from the top 25 interestingly enough), Dark has plenty of options (Panda, AALuci, A. Yomi), Green is in a similar rough patch to Red with Astaroth and Sylvie/Freyja holding it together. What's red's best non MP leads? Shiva, Horus, anyone else?
 

b33r

Member
Though I doubt this is why most people are voting for Escha, apparently Hera Dragon makes Yomi Dragon top tier again. That team is supposed to be able to clear arena 1 and 2 very consistently.

It fixes his hit point problems for sure, but her damage, though consistent, is still not that high without actives. I will definitely be testing it pairing mine with Hera Dragon when she gets to NA.
 

Bladelaw

Member
Anyone seen Squall since his update? I just checked and he's a pretty great lead.

1.5x ATK for fire + 1.5x ATK at 4 combos that scales up at 0.5x per combo.

With paired leads and a 4 combo you're looking at a 5x multiplier, at 6 combos a 14x multiplier, this makes him strictly more damaging than A. Shiva right? I don't have any Squall friends to test with to be sure but this seems like it has potential. More combos more damage but hitting his max is not going to happen.

An optimal Urd/Cao Cao board could be pretty great.
 

Quantum

Member
Anyone seen Squall since his update? I just checked and he's a pretty great lead.

1.5x ATK for fire + 1.5x ATK at 4 combos that scales up at 0.5x per combo.

With paired leads and a 4 combo you're looking at a 5x multiplier, at 6 combos a 14x multiplier, this makes him strictly more damaging than A. Shiva right? I don't have any Squall friends to test with to be sure but this seems like it has potential. More combos more damage but hitting his max is not going to happen.

An optimal Urd/Cao Cao board could be pretty great.


rewritten/edited because I both misread and rambled:

initially I didn't realize there was difference between the US version and the JPN version

1) A.Shiva dual leads 1.5(3x) for six combos (20.25x for dual leads)
2) JPN ver. Squall six combos 1.5(2.5) for six combos (14.06x for dual leads)

Squall will scale much higher with more combos but doesn't benefit from A.Shiva RCV boost.
 

yami4ct

Member
She's not an S rank sub on every team and certainly not the highest tiers but she works on pretty much every dark team. Even if she's off type in A. Pandora you can slot her in and she'll put in work by either flooding the board with dark or ensuring 100% enhance skyfall (flat ~30% damage increase). AA Luci, Yomidra, A. Yomi, and A Haku are all still solid leads and Eschamali works on all of them.

I'm also not sure the entire voting populous is gearing for Arena/2 or are aware of the 4 Gentlemen. As you said she's good (I'd say great). She's easier to use than D. Kali as well (even if not as strong). I don't agree with her spot at number 1 and certainly not by the current margin, but I can see why she's there.

Akechi is great too but lacks the stats and awakenings till he gets an uevo. He's 100% about his active (which is absurdly good).

Everyone in the top 25 is really good in their slot. If Ra makes top 25 I'm going to scream though. I have 5 I don't need any more. I'd trade for an Isis in a heart beat.

Looking at the top 25 reminds me that red won't have a super strong lead until Xiang Mei. Shiva is really good and carried me to where I can clear most things now but the Rush and high level challenge dungeons really show that he has a hard damage cap. Only Gadius really qualifies as the other red leader in the bunch and he's out classed by quite a bit.

Blue has Ryunii, Light has ADQXQ (eventually) and Thor/Saria (both missing from the top 25 interestingly enough), Dark has plenty of options (Panda, AALuci, A. Yomi), Green is in a similar rough patch to Red with Astaroth and Sylvie/Freyja holding it together. What's red's best non MP leads? Shiva, Horus, anyone else?

As long as Gadius makes it in, I'm good with the 25 there disregarding order. I'd maybe drop some of the older leads like Shiva, Bastet and and Yomi in favor of Zuoh, Kanna and maybe Saria, but it's not a bad list. I think people underestimate how good booster cards like Kanna are going to be post inheritance.

Though I doubt this is why most people are voting for Escha, apparently Hera Dragon makes Yomi Dragon top tier again. That team is supposed to be able to clear arena 1 and 2 very consistently.

It fixes his hit point problems for sure, but her damage, though consistent, is still not that high without actives. I will definitely be testing it pairing mine with Hera Dragon when she gets to NA.

HeraDra loses Yomi's RCV multiplier, though. That's a really big hit, especially in Multiplayer. If you can't heal your hits, big HP kinda doesn't matter. There's a reason RaDra/ZeusDra hasn't become a preferred pairing. I don't really see it boosting Yomi's ranking all that much. Maybe she knocks into mid A again, but that seems doubtful.
 

LuffyZoro

Member
As long as Gadius makes it in, I'm good with the 25 there disregarding order. I'd maybe drop some of the older leads like Shiva, Bastet and and Yomi in favor of Zuoh, Kanna and maybe Saria, but it's not a bad list. I think people underestimate how good booster cards like Kanna are going to be post inheritance.



HeraDra loses Yomi's RCV multiplier, though. That's a really big hit, especially in Multiplayer. If you can't heal your hits, big HP kinda doesn't matter. There's a reason RaDra/ZeusDra hasn't become a preferred pairing. I don't really see it boosting Yomi's ranking all that much. Maybe she knocks into mid A again, but that seems doubtful.

IDK, I almost always find myself overhealing with YomiDra, which means the extra multiplier is wasted.
 

yami4ct

Member
IDK, I almost always find myself overhealing with YomiDra, which means the extra multiplier is wasted.

At her current HP, yes. The problem comes when you boost the HP and lessen the multiplier. It becomes harder to manage.

More HP certainly helps YomiDra, but she has problems that can't be fixed by switching out a RCV multiplier for an HP. If all she needed was HP, she'd be way more of a monster in multiplayer.
 
So frustrating. I cleared Sandalphon with a Verndandi/Spica/Perseus/Delgado/Echindna/Verdandi team, once, and now I cannot for the life of me do it again. Totally my fault as I stall poorly or accidentally hit too many combos to push Sandalphon past 50 and he binds my gods.

Going to replace Spica for A. Orochi for the double delay.

I want to use my A. Ama with an A. Venus friend but my healer subs are lacking and I seem to play that team very poorly.

I'm looking at an A.Ama/Valk/L.Kali/Kushinadahime/Echidna/ A.Ama or A.Venus team but I still cannot get it done.
 

hermit7

Member
Rolled in FF collab with my stones from this event.

Was able to get Cecil.

Seems decent enough I suppose, board changers are always useful, but I already have apocalypse who does the same thing.

I guess using it as a devil board changer could be useful (Especially for the hearts).
 

yami4ct

Member
what team are you using - I've tried to enjoy using pandora but I just can't get into it.

My team is A.Panda/Akechi/Uevo Panda/Zuoh/Hanzo/A.Panda.

My Findings:
-She's one of the most orb hungry teams I've seen. If you can't run a team of complete orb changers, she probably will feel bad to you.
-5 turn CD orb changer feels almost necessary. If you don't have Hanzo or D. Valk, it might be worth losing stats to go Vampire Lord.
-Akechi and Zuoh are some of the biggest boosts imaginable. That combo is insanity and they both work on their own as well.

Basically, if you have the right squad, she's one of the strongest and most fun teams I've played. I'm arguably more consistent with her than RaDra even though the later is theoretically much more powerful.
 

Jagernaut

Member
what team are you using - I've tried to enjoy using pandora but I just can't get into it.

I use Akechi and Persephone (not devil, will switch to Awoken form) and rotate the last 2 slots with these cards depending on the dungeon:

Super ultimate Pandora
Hanzo
Awoken Archdemon Lucifer
D/L Lilith
Awoken Haku - not devil, but hypermaxed and best board clearer
D/W Vamp - great for chaining with heartmakers since I don't have Dark Valk

Team has over 34,000 hp and 6,000 rcv.
 

hermit7

Member
what team are you using - I've tried to enjoy using pandora but I just can't get into it.

I run luci/ bikini dora/ valk/ zuoh.

Hypered I have 43k health and decent rcv. When skill inherits come I think I am going to throw someone onto luci. His skill is good, but is pretty situational. I am thinking Hanzo would be a good choice.
 
My team is A.Panda/Akechi/Uevo Panda/Zuoh/Hanzo/A.Panda.

My Findings:
-She's one of the most orb hungry teams I've seen. If you can't run a team of complete orb changers, she probably will feel bad to you.
-5 turn CD orb changer feels almost necessary. If you don't have Hanzo or D. Valk, it might be worth losing stats to go Vampire Lord.
-Akechi and Zuoh are some of the biggest boosts imaginable. That combo is insanity and they both work on their own as well.

Basically, if you have the right squad, she's one of the strongest and most fun teams I've played. I'm arguably more consistent with her than RaDra even though the later is theoretically much more powerful.

My team is A. Panda/Zuoh/Akechi/Akechi/Hanzo/A. Panda. Might switch A. Persephone in once she's available. Super fun team. Enough haste to be able to use Akechi early and have him up again at the end of a 10 floor dungeon. Hanzo does help a lot. I haven't hypered the team yet, or planned an arena team around it, but it's my go-to team for new descends and farming. It crushes.
 

Quantum

Member
My team is A.Panda/Akechi/Uevo Panda/Zuoh/Hanzo/A.Panda.

I use Akechi and Persephone

I run luci/ bikini dora/ valk/ zuoh.

My team is A. Panda/Zuoh/Akechi/Akechi/Hanzo/A. Panda.

I do not have Akechi or D.Valk

seems to be a very common theme with most A.Panda teams.

I have multiple hanzo, multiple zuoh, multiple haku and a metric ton of pandoras

for some reason my team crafting with both A.luci and A.pandy has been miserable. I have depended for so long on shivad/ryune/blonia/a.ra that I've ignored dark.

I've often wondered about A.Panda as 23 people on my FL are running it hypered - seems like its a favored team here too.


edit: I just realized I have a moonlit prowler, vampire lord - which is kind of a bobo D.valk
 
I do not have Akechi or D.Valk

seems to be a very common theme with most A.Panda teams.

I have multiple hanzo, multiple zuoh, multiple haku and a metric ton of pandoras

for some reason my team crafting with both A.luci and A.pandy has been miserable. I have depended for so long on shivad/ryune/blonia/a.ra that I've ignored dark.

I've often wondered about A.Panda as 23 people on my FL are running it hypered - seems like its a favored team here too.

Yeah, Zouh-Akechi is a hell of a kill shot. I think you could probably put together something that works, but you are missing some of the easiest options. You could use Loki or Persephone, maybe even Lillith. There's a lot of different options, just some are easier. Maybe you'll roll Akechi in the PCGF. He rules.
 

Jagernaut

Member
I do not have Akechi or D.Valk

seems to be a very common theme with most A.Panda teams.

I have multiple hanzo, multiple zuoh, multiple haku and a metric ton of pandoras

for some reason my team crafting with both A.luci and A.pandy has been miserable. I have depended for so long on shivad/ryune/blonia/a.ra that I've ignored dark.

I've often wondered about A.Panda as 23 people on my FL are running it hypered - seems like its a favored team here too.


edit: I just realized I have a moonlit prowler, vampire lord - which is kind of a bobo D.valk

Moonlit Prowler has good awakenings, I wish I had one. Ultimate Zuoh, super ultimate Pandora, Hanzo, and Moonlit Prowler would be a good team. Akechi is great but not mandatory.
 

Quantum

Member
Yeah, Zouh-Akechi is a hell of a kill shot. I think you could probably put together something that works, but you are missing some of the easiest options. You could use Loki or Persephone, maybe even Lillith. There's a lot of different options, just some are easier. Maybe you'll roll Akechi in the PCGF. He rules.

yeah - the combination of devil, orb change and dark enhance is impressive. I'm messing around with different teams now

so far - I've come up with a.panda/cruel panda/u.zouh/moonlit vampire/????/a.panda

??? - the best i've come up with for enhance is goeta as she is devil and will eventually create 5 dark orbs - not a great fit.
 

Lyrian

Member
Bah, everyone is making me jealous of being the only kid on the block without an Akechi and a Pandora.

Midpoint PCGF Standings (1 AM EST)

Welp.... the Carnival of Stupid has begun. Round and around it goes, which unlucky cards will not receive votes in the last 3 minutes of voting on Sunday no one knows!

Looking Pretty Safe
----------------
18) Susano 164
19) Ryune 151

The Carnival
----------------
20) FA Lucifer 138
21) I&I 138
22) Ra 138
23) Skuld 137
24) Raphael 136
25) Gadius 136
******************
26) Indra 136
27) Ilm 135
28) Bonia 133

Needing a Prayer
------------
29) Kanna 115
30) Loki 113
 

Goldrush

Member
Can anyone gives me a cheat sheet on Terra? Pulled both Terra and Yuna and been farming skill up every Drop% x 2. However, skill up have been disappointing and I'm thinking about going full INT to try to max Yuna before Skillups end, ignoring Terra. Before committing, just wondering if there is some godly team that might justify max skilling her, too.
 

b33r

Member
As long as Gadius makes it in, I'm good with the 25 there disregarding order. I'd maybe drop some of the older leads like Shiva, Bastet and and Yomi in favor of Zuoh, Kanna and maybe Saria, but it's not a bad list. I think people underestimate how good booster cards like Kanna are going to be post inheritance.



HeraDra loses Yomi's RCV multiplier, though. That's a really big hit, especially in Multiplayer. If you can't heal your hits, big HP kinda doesn't matter. There's a reason RaDra/ZeusDra hasn't become a preferred pairing. I don't really see it boosting Yomi's ranking all that much. Maybe she knocks into mid A again, but that seems doubtful.


But it has become a preferred pairing with skill inheritance. I watch JP twitch pad in the background sometimes, and that pairing is used a lot. Mainly for arena 3, but if you can beat that you can beat anything. There are inheritance you can use to heal, but none to add hp.

The one I'm watching now, team has 74,630 hp, rcv is acceptable, and they heal ok. But every card on both teams have inherited actives. I don't know what they all are, but they are dealing with this ridiculous dungeon for the most part.

I'm just saying there is a reason Xiang Mei is so strong, that is the new meta. But you certainly need perfect subs for her. With the padr dragons and skill inheritance, you can adapt.

I hate how complicated the new meta will become, but for now, it is what it is.

Edit: And they finally beat arena 3, so much bullshit in that dungeon. I honestly felt bad when they finally beat Hera Dragon and she didn't drop. That floor is totally fucked, should be a guaranteed drop. I don't think I'll ever even try that dungeon.
 
Can anyone gives me a cheat sheet on Terra? Pulled both Terra and Yuna and been farming skill up every Drop% x 2. However, skill up have been disappointing and I'm thinking about going full INT to try to max Yuna before Skillups end, ignoring Terra. Before committing, just wondering if there is some godly team that might justify max skilling her, too.
I pulled Terra too but I'm not going to bother with farming her weapon for skill ups since I have the excess Flampys. She seems good for Tsubaki and not much else.
 

Lyrian

Member
Midday, Day 3 PCGF Standings (2 PM EST)

As expected, not much has changed over the first half of the day. Ra got a push and is at the top of the pack currently. As usual for a PCGF, blue cards not named Scheat or Orochi are struggling to stay relevant. Gadius, for the first time, is on the outside looking in.

Breaking Away From the Pack
----------------
19) Ra 162

The Carnival
----------------
20) Indra 154
21) Ryune 153
22) Skuld 152
23) I&I 152
24) Bonia 151
25) Raphael 151
******************
26) FA Lucifer 148
27) Ilm 147
28) Gadius 145

Still Not Quite Dead Yet
------------
29) Kanna 135
30) Loki 129
 

yami4ct

Member
Why is Gadius so sought after? I have two of him but the lack of SBR make me not want to make a team for him.

Good leader, but also a very key sub on Xiang Mei teams. Gadius and at least 1 Uriel is the very core of the team. The fact that Uriel is clearly getting a XM boost and Gadius is struggling is a bit weird. I understand Uriel being way more desired since you only need 1 Gadius and he's a 5* GFE, but he shouldn't be struggling to make a place.
 
Good leader, but also a very key sub on Xiang Mei teams. Gadius and at least 1 Uriel is the very core of the team. The fact that Uriel is clearly getting a XM boost and Gadius is struggling is a bit weird. I understand Uriel being way more desired since you only need 1 Gadius and he's a 5* GFE, but he shouldn't be struggling to make a place.

Ah. No uriel here but that makes sense.
 

Lyrian

Member
I still don't understand why Ilm is getting so many votes.

The most popular "meta" for the PCGF so far, seems to be a fairly organized push to convince the masses that they need to vote for 6 star GFEs. Right now there are eight six star GFEs in the top 25, nine if you count Kanna on the outside looking in. As far as I can anecdotally tell, the campaign appears to be working.

Couple that with the reduction in qualifying cards from 30 to 25. This was probably in reaction to the last PCGF, where there 31 cards competing for 30 slots. By reducing the number of qualifying cards to 25, there is a significant amount of artificial pressure being generated. Couple that with the 6* GFE campaign, and the result is a feedback loop that so far is self sustaining.

So far today, the prevailing trend has been pushing for Light cards. Ra got a big boost in the morning hours and so far in the early evening, Indra and Ilm appear to be the big winners. I'm about ready to write off Loki, but a bit more apprehensive about doing the same for Kanna as I'm suspicious that if she gets close enough to the pack that she will get a big push as a 6* GFE.

All that said, doesn't more 6* GFEs in a PCGF make the gold rates worse? It is not like the 6* GFEs will be featured at normal pantheon rates just because they are voted in.
 

yami4ct

Member
All that said, doesn't more 6* GFEs in a PCGF make the gold rates worse? It is not like the 6* GFEs will be featured at normal pantheon rates just because they are voted in.

Maybe, theoretically, but with 4x pull rates we're likely getting, the gold rates should still be pretty stellar.
 

jay23

Member
4 water gfe in the top 25 you guys are thirsty



I'm surprised how high some of these cards are like yomi, Shiva, and bastet. A lot of new stuff is much easier with high HP teams. But they can still complete most of the stuff in game so I can see why newer players would want them in there.
 

ZeroAKA

Member
Ilm systems for Ranking dungeons I think
The most popular "meta" for the PCGF so far, seems to be a fairly organized push to convince the masses that they need to vote for 6 star GFEs. Right now there are eight six star GFEs in the top 25, nine if you count Kanna on the outside looking in. As far as I can anecdotally tell, the campaign appears to be working.

Couple that with the reduction in qualifying cards from 30 to 25. This was probably in reaction to the last PCGF, where there 31 cards competing for 30 slots. By reducing the number of qualifying cards to 25, there is a significant amount of artificial pressure being generated. Couple that with the 6* GFE campaign, and the result is a feedback loop that so far is self sustaining.
I thought Ilm isn't that popular for ranking dungeons anymore. Isn't it mostly just Shiva Dragons now for non-preset teams?

I still don't understand what Ilm is good for. He isn't a useful sub, and he doesn't seem to be a popular leader. Ilm is literally the only non-dupe card that I'd be disappointed to get out of the top 25. I'll take Kanna or even dupe Pandora/DQXQ over him.

I'm surprised how high some of these cards are like yomi, Shiva, and bastet. A lot of new stuff is much easier with high HP teams. But they can still complete most of the stuff in game so I can see why newer players would want them in there.
I just want Astaroth. ;_;
 

Lyrian

Member
Awesome, thanks! Was just about to go to bed. Do we know what the rewards are?

Shohei challenge again, but this time he is pulling crazy hard dungeons and failing them. He just lost Zaerog Infinity, and now Wadatsumi. At least they are giving him some kind of mercy descend for his last challenge.

EDIT: Stream rewards: 3 stones by mail, 2 py gift dungeons (fixed; flampy + badpy + stone for each), 1 flampie (+50 ATK). [The two lost dungeon rewards were probably +50 HP and RCV flampies]

Unknown stream-only reward to be announced at a later date for signing up at the special link like while the stream was in progress. Future stream "flash" reward links likely.
 

yami4ct

Member
Finally got around to figuring out some skill inheritance for my JP A.Panda squad. Not doing it is basically giving up free skill delay resist at the very least, so it was dumb to leave it undone. My current setup:

A. Panda-Satsuki. Gets rid of trash orbs without using up a Zuoh. Water->Light is a combo I don't have yet I guess.
Zuoh-Kut Ku. Best Delay I have right now that can transfer. Would like to change it to Hydra or A. Orochi eventually.
UUevo Panda-Loki. As mobs get more and more HP, you can't say no to an enhance even if it's usually not needed.
Hanzo-Lum. Situationally more useful than Ra with her delay I feel. Helps clear nasty PreDra/Tama floors.
Akechi-Yuna. Best shield I can muster without dismantling all my teams with A.Susano. Worst active time, but lower CD partly offsets it I guess.


Stream reward, submit player name/ID to http://puzzleanddragons.us/10-mm-giveaways/

Only valid for like 1-2 hours, better hurry

Seem to have missed it by like 40 minutes, but the form is still open. Here's hoping!
 

b33r

Member
Yeah I just figured out skill inheritance myself, added alrescha to You Yu. Thought about a orochi, but he is an important flex sub for me already. I also finally got to run the tan dungeon tonight for the first time, and it is really easy.

Oh and on stream they reopened that link for stream rewards when they ran late, so you're probably fine.
 

Lyrian

Member
Seem to have missed it by like 40 minutes, but the form is still open. Here's hoping!

Looking at your time stamp, you squeaked in. The stream ran so long, that they reopened the form for an additional hour. If you got the "information accepted" response from the webpage, you should get the reward whatever it is.
 
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