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[jett]

To correct, he says the 360 has the capability for 8Kx8K textures, but they couldn't do it anyway because of RAM limitations. And that it's the BR reader on the PS3 that's worse than DVD for streaming, not blu-ray in general. 1X speed Blu-ray actually has much faster seeking time than 1X DVD.

Like Stuburns said, it's a clusterfuck stream of consciousness keynote. Carmack said that he wished he had prepared the game for dual-layered blu-ray too. :lol

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Off-Screen gameplay from Quakecon

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/34363

co-op
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/34362

 

[jett]

ugh gamevideos, how is that website still alive


why can't ANYONE record 60fps off-screen footage of this shit? Even gamersyde failed us all during E3.

 

[TommyT]

What was different?

I might have got LB/RB mixed up D:

Hmm yeah that could be it actually I was talking about the LB stuff when I replied. So we probably had the same just I don't remember what RB did and that was probably it. Use the item selected on the D-Pad.

Off-Screen gameplay from Quakecon

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/34363

co-op
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/34362

That's 360 footage if it isn't obvious to anyone. Showcases the 'dying' and being revived system by the defibrillator.

 

[ScepticMatt]

I found the opening keynote really interesting.
For example where he told that he got an agreement between AMD, NVIDIA and INTEL to solve the tearing problem on PC.

 

[StuBurns]

I found the opening keynote really interesting.
For example where he told that he got an agreement between AMD, NVIDIA and INTEL to solve the tearing problem on PC.

I don't remember that. In fact he said there will be tearing before dynamic resolution adjustments if I remember correctly.

 

[subversus]

I don't remember that. In fact he said there will be tearing before dynamic resolution adjustments if I remember correctly.

he said that. Not an agreement between but working together.

 

[ScepticMatt]

I don't remember that.

From 32:10 he starts talking about tearing and 60fps
From 33:55 he talks about the 'industry vendor cooperating'

 

[Deadbeat]

To correct, he says the 360 has the capability for 8Kx8K textures, but they couldn't do it anyway because of RAM limitations.

He didnt really need to say that, we could just look at screens and see how blurry the game looks.

 

[StuBurns]

I don't understand what it means, games have had v-sync forever, what did AMD/Nvidia do?

 

[ScepticMatt]

I don't understand what it means

From what I understood:
On PC if you drop slightly below 60fps, you either get this ugly switching between 30 and 60 Hz and added lag, or a tear-lines anywhere on the screen.
On Consoles they can keep the tear-lines almost always on the top of the image, no matter what frame rate.

 

[StuBurns]

From what I understood:
On PC if you drop slightly below 60fps, you either get this ugly switching between 30 and 60 Hz and added lag, or a tear-lines anywhere on the screen.
On Consoles they can keep the tear-lines almost always on the top of the image.

I don't think it's that.

On consoles it's always 60fps, when it gets demanding you get a few frames of tearing before the dynamic buffer kicks in and drops the resolution to make up the fill rate, which is nothing new. Wipeout HD does it, Nier does it, probably more I don't know about.

But the PC thing is what I don't get, because we have resolution settings in-game, and from the interview the other day with the director it seemed like it would be graphics settings that would be turned on and off on the fly based on performance.

 

[ScepticMatt]

Here is my transcript of the part where he talks about tearing:

We can miss the target framerate. What we can do then is we allow it to go ahead and instead of having the classic PC problem where either you choose swap intervals locked and you're getting into this ugly aweful stuttering when you're not quite 60 frames per second, you're babbeling between 30 and 60 and doesn't feel very smooth at all, or you just except the tear-line as kind of the standard in high speed PC play witch ... really is one of the more objectionable graphic artifacts that we deal with now. So what we have know is on the consoles we proved this out first where we are locked as long as you got 60 frames per second and as soon as you miss 60 frames per second then you get some tear-lines and hopefully our dynamic adaption and everything catches in and couple of frames later the tear line runs back up to the top of the screen and stops tearing again.
(...)
We got this stupid ugly tear-line going down the screen or we got this non-isochronous swap behavior, this is actually an important thing to fix. And Nvidia went in and defined something pretty quick. It's a little bit of a hackisch interface where we didn't define anything new, we just said, well, negative swap intervals well mean 'swap to this if you can, otherwise tear' and AMD looked at it and said they could do the same thing. Hurray, a success story for industry vendors cooperating on that.

So I think he means that on consoles, the game runs synced as long as it runs over 60fps, and switch to tearing with dynamic adaption when it's not. On PC, you currently can only have vysnc always on or always tear. The new cooperation should fix that.

 

[sinnergy]

To correct, he says the 360 has the capability for 8Kx8K textures, but they couldn't do it anyway because of RAM limitations. And that it's the BR reader on the PS3 that's worse than DVD for streaming, not blu-ray in general. 1X speed Blu-ray actually has much faster seeking time than 1X DVD.

Like Stuburns said, it's a clusterfuck stream of consciousness keynote. Carmack said that he wished he had prepared the game for dual-layered blu-ray too. :lol

Partly true, it starts @ 16:54, he could overcome it on X360, if they allocate some stuff, he than says this would not work on ps3.. sounds to me like platform parity.

 

[StuBurns]

Partly true, it starts @ 16:54, he could overcome it on X360, if they allocate some stuff, he than says this would not work on ps3.. sounds to me like platform parity.

I don't think so, because he said the textures could be less compressed on PS3 but they ran out of time, not because it wouldn't be the same on 360.

EDIT: Just watched that off-screen video, god damn that player is awful, and the controls look clunky as fuck. I was considering renting it on PS3 then buying it when it hit a sale on Steam, I might just go PC first and hope they don't let me down.

 

[Meeru]

Is the exhibition open tomorrow?

 

[54-46!]

Off-Screen gameplay from Quakecon

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/34363

co-op
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/34362

The game looks a lot faster than in the trailers here, I dig it.

 

[DarkChild]

Some off screen shots from RAGE(360).

From quite long Quakecon RAGE preview.
http://defaultprime.com/2011/08/06/default-prime-previews-in-depth-and-hands-on-with-rage/

 

[Man]

Off-Screen gameplay from Quakecon

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/34363

co-op
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/34362

60fps awesome!

 

[kai3345]

My friend won second place in the League of Legends tourney there.

 

[54-46!]

Heh, the prisoner you're escorting in that video runs like the Scout in TF2.

 

[Grayman]

The game looks a lot faster than in the trailers here, I dig it.

that does look like a good fun movement speed.

 

[PixyJunket]

I managed to get a ride there today and hung around for a few hours with my 3DS.

This was my first time there despite being a Quake junkie in the late nineties and having lived in Houston/Dallas all of my life. I may consider grabbing a BYOC spot for next year just for the experience (since there's no way I could compete with most of the people there at just about anything).

I was bummed they only had XS and L shirts left, the design was sick. I might have been able to squeeze into an S (espeically once I start running again) but XS was out of the question and L would just look silly on me.

My friends of a friend there had setup a sweet tournament though: http://twitpic.com/620wfj

 

[bee]

noctis is a fucking beast in TDM, 11k damage haha

http://www.own3d.tv/quakecon

lets see if they can win another map that isn't called cpm4

 

[bee]

lmfao 95 score 50 net and 13k damage vs ice climbers, fucking amazing

but i guess i shouldn't be too surprised that one quake tdm all star team destroyed another, that match only lacked jibo

well played monstahz

 

[ksan]

this is beautiful!

 

[DKo5]

Bravo to id on Rage. I spent quite a bit of time playing PC single player, 360 single player, and 360 co-op. The game is beautiful, fast, fun, and really plays quite a bit different than anything else right now. True, its very "basic id" at its core, but really - who is doing that these days? Throw in some upgrading mechanics, extremely awesome environments, variety in the gameplay, and an awesome vehicle multiplayer and you've got yourself a winner.

I first played a lot of the PC build, and he's right - you can still swing the mouse around and find times when the highmips stream in. Its nowhere NEAR what streaming textures do on, say, Unreal Engine. Its only maybe 200ms until the entire scene is fully textured. Are there some lower-ish res textures? Yeah. Are there any PC-specific whizbang effects? No. Do I think its the best looking PC game I've played? Totally. I've got it pre-ordered on Steam and absolutely can't wait.

The 360 version I wasn't expecting as much from. I saw it at E3, but didn't have the PC version to compare to. For reference, at E3 the PS3 and 360 versions looked nearly identical to me. After playing the PC version and being quite impressed, I was even more impressed by the 360 version. Aside from slightly more texture streaming issues and not as ultra-crisp AA (seems like the PCs were running an obscenely high AA) it really did look the same as the PC. I noticed some of the TVs were fairly gnarly - color balance and contrast all jacked up. I read earlier someone saying the 360 version didn't look as good, that it was more muted or whatever. I totally blame that on the televisions. Console guys are getting an absolutely astounding version of the game. id can't be praised enough for the quality of the console SKUs. Never once have I seen the game being played at less than 60fps on any of the three platforms. They decided on 60fps and they won't budge.

In my opinion, Rage really sets the bar for future games. It looks as good (and often times magnitudes better) than anything else on the market, plays even better, and all at 60fps without blinking. Its been a while since id really "brought it" to the game industry, but they're stepping back in the ring and they're doing it in a very big way. Such a shame they won't license id Tech 5 outside of Bethesda. Then again, it really gives their games a way to stand head and shoulders above anything else.

Bravo id!

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Bravo to id on Rage. I spent quite a bit of time playing PC single player, 360 single player, and 360 co-op. The game is beautiful, fast, fun, and really plays quite a bit different than anything else right now. True, its very "basic id" at its core, but really - who is doing that these days? Throw in some upgrading mechanics, extremely awesome environments, variety in the gameplay, and an awesome vehicle multiplayer and you've got yourself a winner.

I first played a lot of the PC build, and he's right - you can still swing the mouse around and find times when the highmips stream in. Its nowhere NEAR what streaming textures do on, say, Unreal Engine. Its only maybe 200ms until the entire scene is fully textured. Are there some lower-ish res textures? Yeah. Are there any PC-specific whizbang effects? No. Do I think its the best looking PC game I've played? Totally. I've got it pre-ordered on Steam and absolutely can't wait.

The 360 version I wasn't expecting as much from. I saw it at E3, but didn't have the PC version to compare to. For reference, at E3 the PS3 and 360 versions looked nearly identical to me. After playing the PC version and being quite impressed, I was even more impressed by the 360 version. Aside from slightly more texture streaming issues and not as ultra-crisp AA (seems like the PCs were running an obscenely high AA) it really did look the same as the PC. I noticed some of the TVs were fairly gnarly - color balance and contrast all jacked up. I read earlier someone saying the 360 version didn't look as good, that it was more muted or whatever. I totally blame that on the televisions. Console guys are getting an absolutely astounding version of the game. id can't be praised enough for the quality of the console SKUs. Never once have I seen the game being played at less than 60fps on any of the three platforms. They decided on 60fps and they won't budge.

In my opinion, Rage really sets the bar for future games. It looks as good (and often times magnitudes better) than anything else on the market, plays even better, and all at 60fps without blinking. Its been a while since id really "brought it" to the game industry, but they're stepping back in the ring and they're doing it in a very big way. Such a shame they won't license id Tech 5 outside of Bethesda. Then again, it really gives their games a way to stand head and shoulders above anything else.

Bravo id!

Awesome to hear! Man I can't freaking wait.

 

[bloodydrake]

Bravo id!

I really am getting excited.

 

[DKo5]

I haven't been able to read the whole thread so I'm sure this has been mentioned, but man its so awesome that Carmack is such a baller that he'll stand in front of thousands of hardcore PC gamers (and hundreds of thousands online?) and basically nitpick his latest technological masterpiece - even going so far as to explain the best way to show its biggest weaknesses. The man has wheelbarrows full of class, and the balls to match.

 

[Truespeed]

The absence of a PS3 build of Rage at QuakeCon is pretty disturbing. For a game that's supposedly being released this year it potentially speaks volumes for the condition it's in.

As for the keynote, I really liked the time he spent on static code analysis, but was sort of surprised to hear that it's only something he recently started doing. I guess if you're John Carmack you don't really need to have an app analyze your code. It's a sobering thing even for the best of them, I guess. It reminds me of something that Linus once said about real kernel programmers not having a need for debuggers. It's an interesting theory, but not everyone is Linus. I think what surprised me the most was the revelation of all of the hacks that exist in current video drivers to support old games. It's pretty funny the adjustments these drivers have to make to support the legacy of bad programming mistakes in old games.

It was also refreshing to hear someone being this honest and forthcoming about his game and technology without being muzzled by a PR person. It's great that ZeniMax allows him to continue to speak his mind about anything and everything. It was fascinating listening to the pros and cons of the decisions he made and then reflecting on what he would do if he could do it all over again. It's pretty rare to see that level of self criticism and in excruciating detail.

If I had one criticism it would have to be that John likes to talk about the same things each year and hammer the consoles for their limited resources - with the PS3 getting the blunt of his jabs. Overall, an excellent keynote, but I was disappointed that they cut out the Q & A. Not sure why they would do that. Let's hope they post it later on.

 

[Truespeed]

Carmack shout out to Haskell and Ocaml!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zgYG-_ha28&feature=player_detailpage#t=4193s

Followed closely by the shoot down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zgYG-_ha28&feature=player_detailpage#t=4248s

 

[okenny]

The absence of a PS3 build of Rage at QuakeCon is pretty disturbing. For a game that's supposedly being released this year it potentially speaks volumes for the condition it's in.

As for the keynote, I really liked the time he spent on static code analysis, but was sort of surprised to hear that it's only something he recently started doing. I guess if you're John Carmack you don't really need to have an app analyze your code. It's a sobering thing even for the best of them, I guess. It reminds me of something that Linus once said about real kernel programmers not having a need for debuggers. It's an interesting theory, but not everyone is Linus. I think what surprised me the most was the revelation of all of the hacks that exist in current video drivers to support old games. It's pretty funny the adjustments these drivers have to make to support the legacy of bad programming mistakes in old games.

It was also refreshing to hear someone being this honest and forthcoming about his game and technology without being muzzled by a PR person. It's great that ZeniMax allows him to continue to speak his mind about anything and everything. It was fascinating listening to the pros and cons of the decisions he made and then reflecting on what he would do if he could do it all over again. It's pretty rare to see that level of self criticism and in excruciating detail.

If I had one criticism it would have to be that John likes to talk about the same things each year and hammer the consoles for their limited resources - with the PS3 getting the blunt of his jabs. Overall, an excellent keynote, but I was disappointed that they cut out the Q & A. Not sure why they would do that. Let's hope they post it later on.

I'm not even sure your one criticism can even be leveled at him as his honesty is just that clear. It may be the fact that you haven't seen the PS3 version that leaves you thinking he's singling it out a bit more than the others. I try not to read to much into anything negative he says as they're all said from the perspective of his experience. It sounds like John can make anything amazing on any system if he was working directly on that system without policy limitations from the platform holders.

I was surprised he mentioned "Infinite Detail". Sounds familiar.

 

[luka]

Watching Carmack's keynote right, really interesting stuff as always. I just hit the part where he says that they're struggling to get the PC version running at a high framerate. JUST WTF, I thought that was a given considering how the game runs on consoles. They better release a demo or a benchmark, I don't want to buy this game, download 20fuckingGBs(just how big is this game gonna be anyway) and find out it runs like ass on my PC.

This kind of kneejerk reaction to a fairly out of context statement is exactly why you don't see many publishers let their programmers just speak their mind instead of trained PR monkeys.

 

[Truespeed]

Watching Carmack's keynote right, really interesting stuff as always. I just hit the part where he says that they're struggling to get the PC version running at a high framerate. JUST WTF, I thought that was a given considering how the game runs on consoles. They better release a demo or a benchmark, I don't want to buy this game, download 20fuckingGBs(just how big is this game gonna be anyway) and find out it runs like ass on my PC.

Blame the myriad of PC graphics abstraction layers that get in the way of performance such as DirectX. Seems John also agrees with AMD's GPU manager.

With all the hype surrounding DirectX 11 and how it's changing the face of PC gaming in regards to mind-blowing eye candy, AMD's worldwide developer relations manager of its GPU division, Richard Huddy, claims that developers actually want the API to go away, that it's getting in the way of creating some truly amazing graphics.

"I certainly hear this in my conversations with games developers," he told Bit-Tech in an interview. "And I guess it was actually the primary appeal of Larrabee to developers – not the hardware, which was hot and slow and unimpressive, but the software – being able to have total control over the machine, which is what the very best games developers want. By giving you access to the hardware at the very low level, you give games developers a chance to innovate, and that's going to put pressure on Microsoft – no doubt at all."

 

[throwawayname]

Haven't watched any footage or spoilers of the duel/tdm finals. Are there already commented videos of the finals uploaded somewhere?

 

[benny_a]

As for the keynote, I really liked the time he spent on static code analysis, but was sort of surprised to hear that it's only something he recently started doing.

He also said he had a PC-lint book from ages ago in his closet. So he wasn't unaware, he just probably didn't see the need for it before as he could fit all of a current project into his head as he was mainly one of very few programmers on a team.

I also felt validated when he said that he loves the idea of functional programming.
(Yay, validated!) And if the games industry were to use OCaml I would consider it a viable work environment.

If I had one criticism it would have to be that John likes to talk about the same things each year and hammer the consoles for their limited resources - with the PS3 getting the blunt of his jabs.

Multi-platform developers have indicated via many ways that the PS3 is the odd one out when looking at the "HD gen". So getting his raw opinion was cool.

 

[Fjordson]

In my opinion, Rage really sets the bar for future games. It looks as good (and often times magnitudes better) than anything else on the market, plays even better, and all at 60fps without blinking. Its been a while since id really "brought it" to the game industry, but they're stepping back in the ring and they're doing it in a very big way. Such a shame they won't license id Tech 5 outside of Bethesda. Then again, it really gives their games a way to stand head and shoulders above anything else.

Bravo id!

Thanks for the impressions! Sounds really interesting, I'll be playing on 360 so I'm glad to hear that it looks good.

And Carmack's keynote: wow. I'm not even a big tech guy, but for some reason I could listen to that guy talk all day

 

[Truespeed]

He also said he had a PC-lint book from ages ago in his closet. So he wasn't unaware, he just probably didn't see the need for it before as he could fit all of a current project into his head as he was mainly one of very few programmers on a team.

I think he mentioned it was v7 of Lint and not a book, but regardless. Also, I didn't say he was unaware of the benefits of static analysis tools, as he clearly saw the benefit during his Quake 3 days, but rather was surprised that his "conversion experience" to using them was only recently.

Multi-platform developers have indicated via many ways that the PS3 is the odd one out when looking at the "HD gen". So getting his raw opinion was cool.

Yes we all know that it's not really conventional, but John seems to have a habit of doing this in his previous keynotes as well.

 

[Phonomezer]

Interesting to listen to what Carmack had to say about the consoles.

 

[StuBurns]

This is the first time he hasn't been able to completely monitor all code himself, so it makes sense it'd be now he starts looking for software to help him manage that issue.

 

[Atrophis]

Are there VODs of the QL matches anywhere??

 

[Ultratech]

Went Friday and got to play some stuff.
A bit pissed I didn't get to see the Skyrim presentation. (They weren't letting anyone else in when I came.)

Anywho, got to play some Tribes: Ascend (which was pretty neat), RAGE (which was on the 360...I suck at FPSs on consoles, so I didn't care for it), and some other game where I was part of a bank heist.

Also got to see some of the TF2 and L4D2 contests and had to smh at the TF2 stuff. Most of the teams I bothered to watch were bad.

Also a bit disappointed that they didn't really give a lot of free stuff away this year. Came home last year with like 10 T-Shirts, and I got pretty much nothing this year.

 

[robin2]

Still no Q&A?

 

[sleepykyo]

Yes we all know that it's not really conventional, but John seems to have a habit of doing this in his previous keynotes as well.

I don't know, I prefer it over the meaningless lip service that other people in the industry use.
Either way, I've never seen someone in the industy speak publicly with as much energy and candor.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

I love his idea about using processing power in the next few years to make today's assets look better. Its not necessarily a new idea, but its great to hear that they potentially are considering that direction. It is true, great assets and flawless execution is always way better than bleeding edge tech that doesn't look quite right.

 

[Therion]

And the Q&A is up.

 

[StuBurns]

Cool, thanks for posting.

 

[daedalius]

I wonder what the legal issues were with using NIN sounds in Doom3?

I mean you can get them, and use them, and they sound great, but seems odd that they weren't allowed to use them.

 

[Man]

And the Q&A is up.

Carmack is a great talker as always. I'm highly enjoying every minute here.