Joel Was Right
Member
Irrespective of M'bala's motive and intent behind the gesture, its likely to be used by both anti-zionists and anti-Semites thus making it difficult to distinguish the context of individual examples.
Quenelle, new nazi salute or just anti-establishment?
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BaronLundi
Member
Yes. I want him to face charges for the horrendous stuff he said not for the stuff we all assume he will say however right we might be in this assumption. The guy has been making a business out of his hatred for Jews since about 10 years. You ARE deluded about not seeing the latter though.
I'm as afraid of the consequences of this judicial clusterfuck as of the influence this human turd has on impresionnable people.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Someone here said its predominantly muslims groups in France doing it but more than half dont even look muslims and nazis hate muslims and Arabs too. So I am confused
Well considering the jokers at the government are not able to make a budget without breaking the constitution I can't say I'd be surprised if they manage to gravely break the constituion while we're not looking....
At least Sarkozy & co weren't that stupid.
Because it's false really.
It's really mainly the far right and some muslims here and there.
So yes it's really a white guy thing.
Well if he started it and he is an antisemite, any intelligent anti-zionist will back away from this to avoid falling into the obvious trap of doing antisemite stuff to criticize Israeli policies in Palestine.
Well they hate both jews and muslims so it's a win-win situation for them.
Seems more like a Larry the Cable Guy
ComputerMKII
Banned
"A quenelle is a mixture of creamed fish, chicken, or meat, sometimes combined with breadcrumbs, with a light egg binding. It is usually poached.
Quenelle may also refer to a food item made into an oval or egg shape, such as ice cream, sorbet, or mashed potato quenelles. This usage derives from the original shape of the egg-and-meat quenelle."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenelle
Let's put some nicer images to cleanse this thread from the hateful comedian (and the morons that follow him even over here).
"It seems to me that past a certain age (translator's note : I reckon that's 12), one has to be prodigiously dumb or naive to believe that this gesture is anti-establishment and not a gesture of antisemitic hate."
Najat Vallaud-Belkacem (Spokerperson for the French Government)
<3 <3 <3
That being said, the decision of the supreme court is illegal, totally counter-effective and an unacceptable blow to freedom of speech. France will be condemned by the European Court of Human Rights. Our money, getting into his pockets, when he could have been condemned or even put to jail for the fines rightuflly put upon him that he didn't pay.
Dis-moi que c'est un sarcasme.
Yes yes absolutely, the quenelle is so, erm, unconstitutionnaly,erm and legally official, erm from the supreme court of...
.. sorry what was I saying again?
ah yes, Dieudonne is a dumbfuck but it was stupid to ban his show. If anything, it gives him and his hateful ideas even more exposure. (we wouldn't even have a thread on GAF, would we)
BaronLundi
Member
Poor Theodor Herzl must be so annoyed by all this anti-zionism.
If one wants to criticize Israel, fine, just say so. Nobody has ever been prevented to do so (Jews do fail miserably at pulling those strings it seems).
Or that one is anti-israel even. Anti-zionism doesn't mean shit: it's a cowardly gimmick marketed by genuine antisemites. Using that dodgy term serves no purpose and prevents you from being taken seriously.
Way too complicated it seems (or there are no such things). I mean, in this very thread you can read such a gem :
in reply to :
I mean, it's a religion, it's an ethnicity, it's a government, it's a country, it's a language I mean who in their right mind would understands this quantum physics level of complicated shit?
If one wants to criticize Israel, fine, just say so. Nobody has ever been prevented to do so (Jews do fail miserably at pulling those strings it seems).
Or that one is anti-israel even. Anti-zionism doesn't mean shit: it's a cowardly gimmick marketed by genuine antisemites. Using that dodgy term serves no purpose and prevents you from being taken seriously.
Way too complicated it seems (or there are no such things). I mean, in this very thread you can read such a gem :
in reply to :
SuperÑ;96591953 said:
I mean, it's a religion, it's an ethnicity, it's a government, it's a country, it's a language I mean who in their right mind would understands this quantum physics level of complicated shit?
ComputerMKII
Banned
I don't know the people you're referring to (I'll google them) but yes, the quenelle, the song Shoananas and the other memes mentioned in this thread did originate from his skits. However, his rabid hate of Jews and interest in conspiracy theories are 100% genuine. He's serious about that.
By the way, if you're asking me whether I would call Dieudonné an anti-semite, my answer is: yes, absolutely. I would go so far as to call him a total bastard. He's gone so far in 'anti-zionism' that it doesn't fool anyone anymore. I don't see how mere anti-zionism could justify what he said about Patrick Cohen, for instance. That's a dead giveaway.
Are his followers idiots at best and evil at worst? Also yes. Do I think he should be fined, imprisoned or banned for the crap that comes out of his mouth? No. If that makes me one of his supporters then so be it.
What has he said?
Skellig Gra
Member
Well at the very least it was based on what people at the time "thought" was the roman salute.
sadceph2001
Member
Yes! Their 'government' are truly monsters. We really oughta do something about that despotic Jewish overlord, leader of all Jews, Benjamin Netanyahu, whose outright word commands the Jews.
I suppose we should also do something about the global leader Christendom - uh, who was that again?
sarcasm, don't ban please
Holy shit at Baron Lundi's posts. Such endoctrinment by the mass media. Praising NVB in 2014's France... just go there, you will be welcomed :
http://jssnews.com/
http://jssnews.com/
BaronLundi
Member
I myself am awaiting orders from Bibi by ZionWire to take over peoples land as we speak. I was thinking of starting with my neighbour's flat, slowly ethnically cleansing the building from there. I'm a bit worried about the Lebanese restaurant down my flat which makes the best chicken shawarma ever though. Do I really have to cleanse them? I'll have to consult the Torah.
Oh mon dieu tu étais sérieux. That's seriously sad. Thanks for the link! I guess I don't have to return the favour by pointing you to Soral's websites, I'm sure you know your way around them. Shame to see such an enlightened man used as an avatar by someone with such regressive views. Oh, by the way, "lobby juif" is so 00's, I'm sure you can find a more modern term to hide behind.
You are dumb, I'm pro-Palestinian and all you're doing is making everyone who is one look like an antisemite.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Please, NVB's politics belong to a totally different debate. This is getting off-topic.
Edit: Now the government wants Youtube and Dailymotion to delete Dieudonné's videos. Who's the more fascist?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Spreading this bullshit to the lowest common denominator then.
Wow, thanks
Well if there's hate speech as deemed by the law there's ground in having dailymotion and youtube remove the vids or face charges of spreading hate speech themselves.
Also it's not a race.
dripdripsplash
Member
Are you surprised that the actions of the Israeli government creates anti-semitism with stupid people who doesn't know that there is a difference between a jew and a zionist ?
EDIT: Nice playing the anti-semite card too. Shame on you.
EDIT: The Israeli state is an terrorist state, hell bent on ethnic cleansing, and the overtaking of an innocent indigenous peoples land. It is a state which racism also does not limit itself to palestinians but also to asylum seekers who are detained indefently in so called 'open' prisons in desert areas of Israel. The Foreign Minister of the country has just today called for the annullment of all citizenships for all arab israelis while the government also today has announced the building of 1800 new settlements on land that belongs to the palestinians.
BaronLundi
Member
Being also definitely the former and not the latter, fortunately he is not. And I can definitely vouch that my people's brand of morons is not any better.
Yeah, sorry about that (I still luuuuuuve her).
dripdripsplash
Member
I just wanted to add the word for the dramatic effect!
And in doing so you weakened your argument because that kind of hyperbole with this subject is usually a good filter for people who don't know wth they're talking about.
Seriously I tune out people whose sentence doesn't make sense to me.
Maninthemirror
Banned
The whole thing is a mess
Israel was created as a religious Jewish state. So technically criticizing Israel and not Jews will still earn you the anti Semite tag from any Israeli or Jew. Its a no win situation when it comes to debating it.
Israel was created as a religious Jewish state. So technically criticizing Israel and not Jews will still earn you the anti Semite tag from any Israeli or Jew. Its a no win situation when it comes to debating it.
You do know you can criticize the Church (or anything) without having to call for its extermination.
People who do that are shit heads and extremists (not different from other extreme nationalists) and deflecting those accusations isn't really hard, proving them right is the worst thing to do in any case.
People who are conditioned to be always pro-Israeli need to be explained why what Israel is doing is bad. If you start raving about the Holocaust you're never going to win them over.
dripdripsplash
Member
Have a nice day!
EDIT: Add me to your ignore list if you're not comfortable reading negative stuff about Israel.
EDIT: And in exactly the State of Israels case, every single word I wrote is exactly not hyperbole.
It is the reality on the ground, for the Palestinians, for the Arab Israelis and for the African asylum seekers.
Cow Mengde
Banned
What about this one, guys?
I'm not saying that's the case here, I do know that the situation here is serious and everything but when you're telling me that the problem is serious enough that lives are at stake I expect tight argumentation.
And seriously most of the time when talking about Israel the most radical people usually spout BS to support their arguments, so I tune out.
You seem reasonable I'm not putting you on my ignore list, that kinda defeat the point of an ignore list.
I'm rather pro Israel (that is if I had to choose, really I mostly don't care) because of reasons I won't divulge here (and that's really OT here) and that is one of the biggest reason why.
Everything bad about Israel must be about the Shoah, it's a lazy argument and usually point to other less noble motives.
BaronLundi
Member
I'm confused, are you speaking about yourself ? Because that's exactly what you did. And sadly I am not surprised, as antisemitism long predates the creation of the State of Israel.
You are also still confused as you don't seem to grasp (or feign to not grasp) the meaning of the word Zionist. Let me give it to you: zionism is the belief that a Jewish State should be established on the land of Israel (not to be confused with the unlawful actual borders of the actual State of Israel).
So I'm Jewish, I am also an atheist, I am also a zionist in that I want Israel to exist as Jewish state and finally I consider myself pro-palestinian because I want Palestinians to have a real sovereign State with real rights and freedoms, a real unoccupied land and the end of all and any military or otherwise violent actions which have been shamefully perpetrated by Israel against them since Israel's inception or so. Also obviously, the end of all new colonies, the eviction of actual colons, then end of humiliations and segragations (including those of Israeli Arabs), the compensation for land stolen, the share of the water etc.
That being said I am also not Israeli and no more responsible for Israel's actions than you are.
You know what? I'm getting sick of people use the stupid fucking argument "anti-Zionism" as shield when they are saying shit like this. They are too much of a coward to not coming forward and saying that they hate the Jews. If you want to critices the state of Israel, sure go and do that, but don't say antisemitic shit and use "i'm just anti-Zionism hurr durr" as a shield for it. I'm getting sick of the whole arab israel conflict, and I want both side to stop doing stupid fucking shit. ARRRGHGHGHGH!H
BaronLundi
Member
Funny how those totally anti-zionists people who are also adamant that they absolutely aren't not for a single second anti-semitic would never do a single step to ensure they lift this horrendous confusion that seem to plague them forever and ever.
The same goes with the quenelle: if it's so easily interpreted as an insult against Jews and shoah victims (making it in front of Synagogues and concentration camps doesn't help) maybe, just maybe you could make-up some kind of different gesture that couldn't be misconstrued as such ? No ?
I'm thinking Louis CK's sketch about Faggot, Cunt and Nigger is not unrelated to the debate at hand.
dripdripsplash
Member
I acknowledge the State of Israel, but the legitimacy of the State and it's establishment in 1948 is non-existant.
Zionism is also to want an *Jewish* homeland.
In the wordings of several jewish zionist intellectuals and the fathers of Zionism, (this can be seen clearly, or I should rather say not seen at all, in 'Der Judenstaat'), absolutely no discussion or debate was given to the subject of the indigenous people of the states that the Zionists had in there minds to steal.
Argentina, Uganda or Palestine. Absolutely no debate was given with regards to these human beings. No such debate was at any time present in the workings of these fathers of Zionism.
That is one of my problems with Zionism.
Jag
Member
I don't think this means what you think it means.
As far as the salute thing, this is why outlawing free expression is a bad idea. It just validates the people who want to use it to promote hatred. Let Nazi symbols and speech be allowed and allow the majority of good people to condemn it. When you prohibit something it becomes a tempting forbidden fruit.
dripdripsplash
Member
The New-Historians say otherwise.
Ethnic cleansing was purposely done by the Israeli Army and Ben Gurion throughout and after the 1948 war. This was done through terrorist attacks executed mainly by members of the Irgun and Haganah against the civil population and systemic expulsion of palestinians that resulted in over 700 thousand fleeing or expelled from their homes.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
It represents sticking your arm up someone,s ass up to the shoulder. It's basically a "fuck you". What it has come to signify though might be different. It could now represent a blocked Nazi-salute (as if "the establishment" is blocking one's arm from being raised to make the salute).
But in the minds of the Nazis, it was. Same reason people in medieval times thought people in antiquity lived in castles and were wearing the same clothes they did, even though people who were educated knew otherwise. The iron eagle sitting on the wreath is pretty obvious as another Roman symbol the Nazis took.
But in the minds of the Nazis, it was. Same reason people in medieval times thought people in antiquity lived in castles and were wearing the same clothes they did, even though people who were educated knew otherwise. The iron eagle sitting on the wreath is pretty obvious as another Roman symbol the Nazis took.
Me_Marcadet
Member
I love Dieudonné as an artist, I watched most of his recent shows and there's some of the best written and acted sketches, seriously the man is a genius.
His best sketches are of courses the one who have nothing to do with jews , those are just pure fanservice and are getting boring...
This one is 100% devoid of politics and everybody should watch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlqBDfDb15o
There's a lot of misunderstanding and ignorance with this artist and a lot of his provocations and japes are misinterpreted as acts of hate.
The Patrick Cohen incident is a pure exemple of this. One man with some media power insults and attacks him, of course he is going to retaliate in one of his spectacle and say he wished the guy dead while using irony.
When talking about Dieudonne, it should always been said that the man suffered a lot from racism and attacks too. When he complained about those, it was said to him that he should shut up and that it was just jokes and the way things are. His humor is build upon that. He jokes and pokes at things considered wrong and "hateful" by the same people who wanted him to just shut the fuck up.
He is clearly paranoid but after all he suffered through his life, it's understandable. It should also be noted that he his completely harmless. He always attacks in his shows with humor and never condone violence.
I'm fan of corrosive and black humor so seeing my country doing everything in its power to shut down one of the last comedian who excels at it is really sad.
His best sketches are of courses the one who have nothing to do with jews , those are just pure fanservice and are getting boring...
This one is 100% devoid of politics and everybody should watch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlqBDfDb15o
There's a lot of misunderstanding and ignorance with this artist and a lot of his provocations and japes are misinterpreted as acts of hate.
The Patrick Cohen incident is a pure exemple of this. One man with some media power insults and attacks him, of course he is going to retaliate in one of his spectacle and say he wished the guy dead while using irony.
When talking about Dieudonne, it should always been said that the man suffered a lot from racism and attacks too. When he complained about those, it was said to him that he should shut up and that it was just jokes and the way things are. His humor is build upon that. He jokes and pokes at things considered wrong and "hateful" by the same people who wanted him to just shut the fuck up.
He is clearly paranoid but after all he suffered through his life, it's understandable. It should also be noted that he his completely harmless. He always attacks in his shows with humor and never condone violence.
I'm fan of corrosive and black humor so seeing my country doing everything in its power to shut down one of the last comedian who excels at it is really sad.
Do you realise this site put a context focus on all the people who do the quenelle? this gesture have been done by the fan of Dieudonne for more than 7 years now and more than 1000 pictures exist of people doing it, less than 1% of this pictures have connection of anything jewish.
It is the president of C.R.I.F (Representative Council of French Jewish Institutions) Roger Cukierman the first to say the quenelle was antisemitic in nature last November, I guess by doing like all of you who just discover it by looking at site like this one who focus on racist doing the quenelle.
Cukierman is the first too call it Nazi salute in reverse certainly influence by a handfull of offensive pictures made by racist. He even go so far to say HE think the real meaning of the quenelle is the sodomisation of shoa victim! REALLY?
Is because of HIS definition of the quenelle that a 7 years gesture become what people think is antisemitic now. What next? if Dieudonne smile and his fan start taking smiling picture of themselves in front of jewish memorial, smiling will be call antisemitic too?
Edit: Also, if you believe the quenelle is antisemitic, can you explain this picture of Dieudonne with one of the T-shirt he design and sell?
Lmao this makes sense. On the wiki page there was a picture of a guy doing it and the sleeve of his shirt had measurements up it. So I guess depending on how high he held his hand up against the measuring arm doing the downward salute that's how far up someone's ass they are going and subsequently how big the "fuck you" is.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Yes, that's the idea.
Even Varg Vikernes, who was also targeted by Manuel Valls, made the gesture: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG5nqSXcSCc
If I recall correctly some Arabs in the WWII era admired Hitler and despised the Jews and tried to align themselves with nazi germany.
ot: it's pretty neat that autocorrect doesn't capitalize hitler or nazi.
Well shit man that's fucking awesome. I can see how it would catch on. If it's true that 1% of the images showing people disrespecting Jewish memorials doing the "salute" were just cherry picked then I'd have to consider maybe it's just a gesture of disrespect that some people use to disrespect jews and not exclusively some sort of antisemitic salute.
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