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[TheInfamousKira]

So like...if they can send eight thousand Terminators and Resistance soldiers back in time to fuck with Sarah Connor &co. why can't they just like...

...send the entire Resistance back in time? I get that someone has to operate the machine, but like rock, paper scissors that shit or something. Draw straws. Reprogram an Arnold and have him do it. Then you can have like 1,000 or whatever soldiers in one place and they can storm Skynet and everyone wins. And if the concern is like...authorities thinking they're a cult, just bring a couple of reprogrammed Arnold's along with you.

After the dumpster fire abortion that was Dark Fate, I demand James Cameron get a Neogaf account, read my treatment, and employ me to undo the wrong. You can even name it something appropriately woke and lame like "Terminator: Fate's Refugees," or some shit. Printing money over here.

 

[Cockles & Whelks]

One thing I like about Terminator 3, is that at the end Connor acknowledges the creation of Skynet is an inevitability.

Stop Skynet, all you'll do is push it back by 10-20 years. AI plugged into everything is always going to happen in the Terminator universe.

The temporal displacement machine is quite small in the movies....sending back swaths of people would result in instability to the timelines that could result in Skynet cancelling itself out by mistake, so it sends as targeted trained assassin. Of course it's chicken 'n egg scenario as the resistance trying to stop it ends up with Skynet being created.

I just want to see an intelligent scifi movie that deals with the days leading up to Skynet. Like Colossus - The Forbin Project (great movie btw - it's practically Terminator Zero).

 

[The ninja farmer]

Currently the terminator movies are stuck in the same loop as the characters. It just all seems inevitable

even termaintor salvation, had the same rescue concept (but less terminator hunting down its prey and they sacked off a really interesting sounding ending)

I guess that audiences and most fans have seen it too many times now

but how do you freshen up the franchise, but remain true to its roots (and possibly what fans want/demand) ?

maybe a movie from a terminators point of view ? Or have lots of terminators fight ?

 

[Cockles & Whelks]

Currently the terminator movies are stuck in the same loop as the characters. It just all seems inevitable

even termaintor salvation, had the same rescue concept (but less terminator hunting down its prey and they sacked off a really interesting sounding ending)

I guess that audiences and most fans have seen it too many times now

but how do you freshen up the franchise, but remain true to its roots (and possibly what fans want/demand) ?

maybe a movie from a terminators point of view ? Or have lots of terminators fight ?

I think there's a good scope for a psychological thriller when a guy or woman suffers from nightmares and mental illness. Only at the end do you find out they are actually a Terminator sent back to fight a war then never occurred due to the timeline being changed and their memory unit eventually begins to break down as it fills with information it was never designed to process.

 

[Mr Hyde]

Dark Fate was the worst shit I've seen in years. So incredibly disappointing, especially after Cameron & Miller saying they're gonna take the story in a new direction. And then it ends up the same recycled shit as before, only ten times worse. Can't believe Cameron put his name on it. Why destroy your legacy like that?

This franchise is beyond salvation at this point. Let it rest in peace and enjoy the first two, which I consider is are the only ones that counts as canon.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

This franchise is beyond salvation at this point.

Haaa. I see what you did th-

But "new direction," in this age of sermon-media usually amounts to gender swapping an old story and proceeding to copy it beat for beat.

 

[Sub_Level]

After the dumpster fire abortion that was Dark Fate

As opposed to the dumper fire abortions that were Rise of the Machines, Salvation, and Genisys?

As for your question, the answer is that there are arbitrary limitations on the time travel in each and every movie. Even in the first movie they conveniently handwave away Kyle not just bringing a laser rifle with him by suggesting only organic material can pass despite the fact that the terminator has hundreds of pounds of inorganic material. "I didn't build the fucking thing" indeed, see the time travel is just a way to get the action chase scenes started its not meant to be the crux of the plot.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Every time they send something back, they create another time line. Time travel in Terminator doesn’t work like it does in Back to the Future.

So sending everything back from your future has you giving up your time line in exchange for another. That is why Skynet doesn’t use it until it has already lost.

But you effecting the past doesn’t alter your future.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Dark Fate was the worst shit I've seen in years. So incredibly disappointing, especially after Cameron & Miller saying they're gonna take the story in a new direction. And then it ends up the same recycled shit as before, only ten times worse. Can't believe Cameron put his name on it. Why destroy your legacy like that?

This franchise is beyond salvation at this point. Let it rest in peace and enjoy the first two, which I consider is are the only ones that counts as canon.

Woke Fate is even worse as a sequel than Dumb & Dumber To. Yeah it's hard to believe that not only Cameron was on board, but also Arnie and that he didn't complain about making his original character become a complete pussy.

 

[cryptoadam]

In the original movie they win the war and skynet tries to kill John as a last ditch effort. The humans never want to stop skynet thats not why they go back in time.

Now if judgement day is inevitable then we must follow this logic and skynet being defeated is inevitable as well. Killing John will just lead to someone else just like destroying cyberdine or the T800 arm pushed back judgement day.

But like most movies when you get sequels it gets dumb. The original it was like a 1 time thing last ditch effort and with each sequel time travel was normalized to the point where there is a time machine in the past and dozens of terminators are being sent back in time.

 

[Boss Mog]

There were only two Terminator films. The franchise ended with T2 period.

Oh and there was only one Matrix movie.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

In the original movie they win the war and skynet tries to kill John as a last ditch effort. The humans never want to stop skynet thats not why they go back in time.

Now if judgement day is inevitable then we must follow this logic and skynet being defeated is inevitable as well. Killing John will just lead to someone else just like destroying cyberdine or the T800 arm pushed back judgement day.

But like most movies when you get sequels it gets dumb. The original it was like a 1 time thing last ditch effort and with each sequel time travel was normalized to the point where there is a time machine in the past and dozens of terminators are being sent back in time.

No. It doesn't work like that. But the story has you believe that. Keep in mind it is told from the humans perspective, not Skynet's.

Skynet is aware of time travel (it built it after all) and is aware it can't effect it self. Otherwise it would just send things back to advance it self and all kinds of other shit. Skynet with time travel is attempting to solve a problem pure and simple. Has understanding of time travel, alternate realities yada yada.

Skynet is attempting to help Skynet of other time lines.

There were only two Terminator films. The franchise ended with T2 period.

There is no evidence to suggest that T1 and T2 actually take place in the same time line. Although if any of the movies do exist in the same time line, those would be the only 2 that do.

 

[Nemesisuuu]

It's dead, Jim.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Terminator: The Sarah Conner Chronicles delves into this idea heavily, with both sides sending troops back for multiple objectives, including the resistance hiding a time machine in a bank when it was built, should any mission go wrong and they needed to jump to a different time for a do over or to lose their pursuers.

It's also bloody brilliant, and the only good Terminator fiction after the first 2 movies. Ends on a cliffhanger due to cancellation though, sadly.

 

[Mr Hyde]

Yeah it's hard to believe that not only Cameron was on board, but also Arnie and that he didn't complain about making his original character become a complete pussy.

I wonder if that fight between Miller and Cameron that was reported in media after the film's release, was because Cameron didn't like what Miller's been up to when he saw a pre-screening of the movie? Or it was to save face because it turned out shit and bombed?

Cameron has a legendary reputation for having a flaming temper, so why didn't he stomp Millers ass when he saw the direction he was going with during production. He was the producer, he should've fired Miller and hired another director, he could've brought in Robert Rodriguez (Alita was a successful collaboration), or better yet do it himself. Anything but Dark Fate.

 

[EverydayBeast]

The later Terminator movies get a lot of flack for that type of alternate future, one terminator was really good and I think the movies come from an action point of view first but somehow communicates to tech, future, conspiracy crowds also.

 

[Blond]

I think there's a good scope for a psychological thriller when a guy or woman suffers from nightmares and mental illness. Only at the end do you find out they are actually a Terminator sent back to fight a war then never occurred due to the timeline being changed and their memory unit eventually begins to break down as it fills with information it was never designed to process.

This concept alone has been better than the last 30 years of the choose your own adventure style endings the series has been on lol.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

So in the first film the idea is that it was all they had time for. it was also the idea that because the resistance had won it was a last ditch effort by skynet. There was an implication that you wouldn't be able to use it again. In the second film they retcon it and claim that skynet sent two terminators back one to a different time than the other. it felt slightly intellectually dishonest but it was one of the best made films that's ever existed so we all forgave it. Everything that's happened since has been wrong.

 

[T8SC]

Reese: It had no choice. Their defense grid was smashed. We'd won. Taking out Connor then would make no difference. Skynet had to wipe out his entire existence!

Silberman: Is that when you captured the lab complex and found the, uh, what was it called... the time displacement equipment?

Reese: That's right. The Terminator had already gone through. Connor sent me to intercept him and they blew the whole place.

Silberman: Well, how are you supposed to get back?

Reese: I can't. Nobody goes home. Nobody else comes through. It's just him - and me.


At least until they built a new time machine for T2.

 

[Cockles & Whelks]

So in the first film the idea is that it was all they had time for. it was also the idea that because the resistance had won it was a last ditch effort by skynet. There was an implication that you wouldn't be able to use it again. In the second film they retcon it and claim that skynet sent two terminators back one to a different time than the other. it felt slightly intellectually dishonest but it was one of the best made films that's ever existed so we all forgave it. Everything that's happened since has been wrong.

With the zinger being the psychologists attempt to help the patient makes it self aware that it has to create Skynet or it will never exist.

But hey ho, I fully expect J.J Abrahams to reboot it in 5 years time with the same old bollocks storyline.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

With the zinger being the psychologists attempt to help the patient makes it self aware that it has to create Skynet or it will never exist.

But hey ho, I fully expect J.J Abrahams to reboot it in 5 years time with the same old bollocks storyline.

I don't mind new Terminator films being made. I just mind how they've been done and what stories they've gone with. I particularly wish we could get a new Terminator film with an atmosphere like the first or second had. The second was a landmark and visual effects but none of the sequels have been even close to the best looking films of their respective years. There's also the action problem while the chase seen in part three is a really fun scene they don't seem to understand what made the action scenes great in one and two and it was a level of suspense, urgency and kineticism. The most impressive thing about dark fate was that some of the action scenes actually recaptured that to a certain extent but they were still full of very phony CGI. but I would definitely say it's the most underappreciated part of that film is how often in the action scene you felt like the characters were only one step away from dying all the time.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

As opposed to the dumper fire abortions that were Rise of the Machines, Salvation, and Genisys?

As for your question, the answer is that there are arbitrary limitations on the time travel in each and every movie. Even in the first movie they conveniently handwave away Kyle not just bringing a laser rifle with him by suggesting only organic material can pass despite the fact that the terminator has hundreds of pounds of inorganic material. "I didn't build the fucking thing" indeed, see the time travel is just a way to get the action chase scenes started its not meant to be the crux of the plot.

Oh, no one is claiming anything past Judgment Day is a stupdenously made film, I was just going with "the most recent bomb," Granted, I did like Salvation. Sue me.

But those handwaves are why I think it could be done. With all the nonsense that's been retconned into "plausibility," by now, why not? Have a crazy futuristic war take place with a modern day backdrop. Have interactions with desperate resistance leaders who understand the cost and worth of lives and arrogant number crunching 2020 dudes. Do something interesting, not the first two movies with a new coat of paint.

I'm of the mind that nothing NEEDED to be expanded past the second film, but if they're going to, at least make it original. Even if it sucks, it'll still be something different.

 

[Deleted member 801069]

 

[MetalAlien]

There were only two Terminator films. The franchise ended with T2 period.

Oh and there was only one Matrix movie.

 

[nush]

Is that the movie where they have to get naked to be allowed inside the computer room?

 

[#Phonepunk#]

i've enjoyed all the Terminator movies tbh. it's silly how butthurt people get over these movies.

i think it's quite unreasonable to demand they all fit into this wonderful coherent narrative when the very first movie has retcons as part of the main plot. if you look at them as b-movies, which is what they are, it's fine. they are excuses to see killer robots and revisit the classic themes. time travel. fear of machines. the heroism of fighting for the human spirit in the face of an ever-more increasingly robotic future.

which, at it's heart, is the classic monster movie trope: a woman escaping a relentless killer. tbh the "lore" story/plot is secondary for me, all i need is that killer robot chasing a good guy and i'm in.

so really i've enjoyed every one of these movies, and am glad they keep making them. they each have their own style, which kind of gives it all a multiverse feel. this is why things like "I'll be back" and all the standard Terminator tropes don't mind me, they are the glue holding the series together across all these alternate realities. at the center of that is Arnold. someday when Arnold dies everyone will be glad that he pops up in all of these.

people need to in general chill the fuck out w the nerdism about lore and storylines and all that. just learn to appreciate a killer time travelling robot movie without it having to match up to what is the best action film of the past 30 years.

 

[Happosai]

One thing I like about Terminator 3, is that at the end Connor acknowledges the creation of Skynet is an inevitability.

Stop Skynet, all you'll do is push it back by 10-20 years. AI plugged into everything is always going to happen in the Terminator universe.

The temporal displacement machine is quite small in the movies....sending back swaths of people would result in instability to the timelines that could result in Skynet cancelling itself out by mistake, so it sends as targeted trained assassin. Of course it's chicken 'n egg scenario as the resistance trying to stop it ends up with Skynet being created.

I just want to see an intelligent scifi movie that deals with the days leading up to Skynet. Like Colossus - The Forbin Project (great movie btw - it's practically Terminator Zero).

That's your answer and try not to buy much into a franchise once it's clear the movie has been burnt by rewrites. Most of the was taken into account even with the first Terminator but they cut the scenes as they felt it would distract from the more basic basis of the original story. Likewise, I can watch Terminator 3 for added context to the original stories but the overall effect is gone. They no longer felt scary and you never felt that it was something futuristic. When the first movie came out it made future sci-fi a master craft. The sequels are great action flicks with nothing more than some added context. I've seen the mess they made after 3 and I choose to pretend that it's just not Terminator. They're not even worthy to be considered tributes.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

With the zinger being the psychologists attempt to help the patient makes it self aware that it has to create Skynet or it will never exist.

But hey ho, I fully expect J.J Abrahams to reboot it in 5 years time with the same old bollocks storyline.

Spot on. Copy and paste for movies like Charlie's Angels (the latest one with miss Twilight, I found the ones with Diaz etc fun at least).

I can watch the modern Terminator films but I even found myself fast forwarding parts of Dark Fate. You really don't fast forward any parts of T1 or T2, they're too good.

 

[Riven326]

So like...if they can send eight thousand Terminators and Resistance soldiers back in time to fuck with Sarah Connor &co. why can't they just like...

...send the entire Resistance back in time?

Because Skynet was losing the war. It sent the T800, it's most advanced model, back in time to kill Sarah and change history. John had just gotten to the time displacement equipment along with Kyle after the terminator had already gone through. The equipment was rigged to be destroyed. John only had a short time to act. He decided to send Kyle back to protect Sarah.

They didn't send back the entire resistance because they weren't capable of doing so, number one. Number two, they needed soldiers there to continue to fight in the future.

 

[Ememee]

I have a soft spot for T3 and Salvation but they’re terribly mediocre compared to the first two.

I’m genuinely surprised they haven’t tried a hard reboot with the whole thing.

 

[jason10mm]

I think the terminator concept works better as horror than action. So I'm down for a 10 million dollar reboot with none of that cgi shit, no action set pieces, and no Arnie. Just an unkillsble psycho, a scrappy hero on a suicide rescue mission, and a woman being stalked with no idea why.

Get on it Blumhouse!

 

[TheInfamousKira]

i've enjoyed all the Terminator movies tbh. it's silly how butthurt people get over these movies.

i think it's quite unreasonable to demand they all fit into this wonderful coherent narrative when the very first movie has retcons as part of the main plot. if you look at them as b-movies, which is what they are, it's fine. they are excuses to see killer robots and revisit the classic themes. time travel. fear of machines. the heroism of fighting for the human spirit in the face of an ever-more increasingly robotic future.

which, at it's heart, is the classic monster movie trope: a woman escaping a relentless killer. tbh the "lore" story/plot is secondary for me, all i need is that killer robot chasing a good guy and i'm in.

so really i've enjoyed every one of these movies, and am glad they keep making them. they each have their own style, which kind of gives it all a multiverse feel. this is why things like "I'll be back" and all the standard Terminator tropes don't mind me, they are the glue holding the series together across all these alternate realities. at the center of that is Arnold. someday when Arnold dies everyone will be glad that he pops up in all of these.

people need to in general chill the fuck out w the nerdism about lore and storylines and all that. just learn to appreciate a killer time travelling robot movie without it having to match up to what is the best action film of the past 30 years.

With Terminator, I can kinda agree. The first two films fit nicely into a duology and everything past that has just essentially been popcorn flicks with well known actors riding off of an established IP, and you know, that's totally cool.

Certain things, I'd argue that canon and lore are important. The way I view it, the more seriously the actual movie/game/book/etc tries to present/take its own narrative, the more libel it is to warranted scrutiny over inconsistencies.

This is an unpopular opinion, but I kind of view Star Wars the same as I do Terminator films. So long as they get the baseline stuff correct, I'm willing to overlook inconsistencies in the name of a fun movie. Granted, The Last Jedi didn't really get baseline stuff correct in regards to portrayal of returning characters, etc, but RoS and TFA were pretty okay in my books.

 

[Javthusiast]

The franchise was made for the first two films. Should have ended there, cause clearly nobody has any idea on what can be done with the premise going further.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Time travel is stupid. Every movie literally said no matter what they did, the future was still going to happen. (first 3) Then...other shit happened. If you can shut off your brain to the plot you'll find a great a movie. (the first 2)

 

[sol_bad]

Woke Fate is even worse as a sequel than Dumb & Dumber To. Yeah it's hard to believe that not only Cameron was on board, but also Arnie and that he didn't complain about making his original character become a complete pussy.

Complete pussy?
He saves the day in Dark Fate.....

 

[UnNamed]

For me, Salvation is the worst Terminator in the franchise, it's like a bad episode of Sarah Connor's Chronicles which had better contents than Salvation. The idea about Salvation was good on paper but not that good when they developed it. If you count the minutes Salvation developed the plot, you have 5-6 minutes of story and 70 minutes of runs and fights.
The only thing good on Salvation was the original ending, but they removed it after the leak.

I don't know why people love Salvation and hate Genisys, which isn't a terrible movie after all.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Complete pussy?
He saves the day in Dark Fate.....

I meant before he was recruited to "come out of retirement".

 

[Liljagare]

They should just go full on wartime story with it, show the end of the world, battles, go future and show the futile fights. Skip Connor and the sidetrack stuff, gief Terminators galore!

 

[Cunth]

they need to do more of these

 

[VulcanRaven]

Every time they send something back, they create another time line. Time travel in Terminator doesn’t work like it does in Back to the Future.

So sending everything back from your future has you giving up your time line in exchange for another. That is why Skynet doesn’t use it until it has already lost.

But you effecting the past doesn’t alter your future.

Have they actually said that in the movies? I don't think we have seen how it affects the future.

 

[gradient]

There were only two Terminator films. The franchise ended with T2 period.

Oh and there was only one Matrix movie.

This man speaks the truth.

But if they want to revive the franchise they need to go back to the horror roots of the first. The Terminator was a fantastic horror monster - cold, unstoppable and eerily focussed on it's objective. That idea of a nigh unstoppable machine pursuing you relentlessly just works and is so easy to expand upon. Bring the scope in to just the life of an individual and their struggle to survive being hunted by a Terminator, keep it dark and let that struggle play out on a smaller, local scale like in the first movie.

 

[MilkyJoe]

So like...if they can send eight thousand Terminators and Resistance soldiers back in time to fuck with Sarah Connor &co. why can't they just like...

...send the entire Resistance back in time? I get that someone has to operate the machine, but like rock, paper scissors that shit or something. Draw straws. Reprogram an Arnold and have him do it. Then you can have like 1,000 or whatever soldiers in one place and they can storm Skynet and everyone wins. And if the concern is like...authorities thinking they're a cult, just bring a couple of reprogrammed Arnold's along with you.

After the dumpster fire abortion that was Dark Fate, I demand James Cameron get a Neogaf account, read my treatment, and employ me to undo the wrong. You can even name it something appropriately woke and lame like "Terminator: Fate's Refugees," or some shit. Printing money over here.

Time travel movies will always be difficult to not leave your audience just saying "why not just send someone back to this point or before so and so arrives"

Best one I saw had shit constantly change, due to the butterfly effect. forget what it was called now.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Have they actually said that in the movies? I don't think we have seen how it affects the future.

Yes and no. No directly, yes implied.

You have to keep in mind that time travel is explained via the humans perspective. They did not build it, and their understanding of it is mostly limited to turning the machine on. Kyle is the source for explaining all future information including time travel in T1 and he admits he doesn't understand. Arnold is the source for information in T2 and he only lets information slip when it is necessary or when he is commanded to (in which case John must ask the right questions).

It is most likely that T1 and T2 are in the same time line and the others are from their own timelines each. But the rules of this topic should all still be identical.

Judgement day date does not change in T1 and T2. One would assume that judgement day would change between T1 and T2 since T1 ended with the makers of Skynet (Cyberdyne) getting a power up in the form of the remains of the first Terminator.

So why didn't it? Because the Skynet that sent Arnold back was created in a timeline were that Arnold was already sent back. It was beneficial for Skynet so Skynet continued to do so. So it did get the power up, but in a previous different timeline.

The audience is led to believe that the creation of Skynet and the Father of John Connor is a paradox... but it isn't. Some where out there is an original timeline where A) Kyle isn't John Connors Father and B) Skynet was created without the Terminator 1 powerup.

If the laws of time travel didn't exist in this way at the very least the world ends. Once Kyle Reese stops the birth of John Connor, John Connor ceases to exist and therefore Kyle Reese ceases to exist since John saved Kyle in the future and John sent Kyle back. Neither which can happen once John sends Kyle back

Unless Time travel doesn't work in that way : ) in which it can't right.

This is however directly confirmed in other movies even in the most recent Dark Fate. Arnold killing John on the beach but Skynet already completely defeated. How does Arnold exist to kill Connor if Time Travel operated in the Back to the Future way.

Make sense?

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Time travel is stupid. Every movie literally said no matter what they did, the future was still going to happen. (first 3) Then...other shit happened. If you can shut off your brain to the plot you'll find a great a movie. (the first 2)

No, they change the future in the second until the third retconned it.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

No, they change the future in the second until the third retconned it.

The future never changed if things still happened. John sends his dad to FUCK his mom = he is born.
In the second movie "changing" things meant nothing if skynet still happened.
After that it was just...no john it was ur baby we care about then it was like hey John FUCK you as you were always a robot.

:/

 

[Explosive Zombie]

The future never changed if things still happened. John sends his dad to FUCK his mom = he is born.
In the second movie "changing" things meant nothing if skynet still happened.
After that it was just...no john it was ur baby we care about then it was like hey John FUCK you as you were always a robot.

:/

Skynet only still happens because of a sequel, though.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Skynet only still happens because of a sequel, though.

Bruh the point is you can't change the future until Cameron says fuck retcon.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Bruh the point is you can't change the future until Cameron says fuck retcon.

Cameron had nothing to do with part 3.

 

[Stitch]

Complete pussy?
He saves the day in Dark Fate.....

I'm still not sure if Tim Miller was just trolling everyone. So much Girl Power talk before the movie came out and then they can't get shit done and have to be saved by Arnold

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Cameron had nothing to do with part 3.

True, however they were his characters and he had no trouble letting people do whatever they wanted with them.