There aren't actually that many cheaters on PC from what I've seen. While the subreddit can sometimes be legit, some claims are from skilled players (some of which I play with from time to time).
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There aren't actually that many cheaters on PC from what I've seen. While the subreddit can sometimes be legit, some claims are from skilled players (some of which I play with from time to time).
mikefrails
Banned
I think giving people the ability to join you whenever would cause more issues. What if you don't want them?
Probably so, I think the thought that there could be cheaters on the other side when I die instantly from long range head shots would drive me mad.
Barrel Cannon
Member
As far as party systems go. Halo 2, Halo Reach, and the COD series post MW have some of the best ones. I still consider Reach my favorite one. I wish MP gaming with friends was as simple as reach. My only real qualm with Siege is the way it's customs mode is setup
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, one of the most frustrating experiences in this game is when you've found a team of four awesome, mic-using randoms. Then, one of them has to leave right when your buddy comes online and wants to play.
TimeEffect
Member
Wait, this update improved hit detection on console??
Anton Sugar
Member
I don't think it was supposed to--those were patched in last week.
draughn101
Member
It increased the tick rate 2x, which I believe involves player movement and bullet position. . It seems pretty clear to me that they are dropping as they should now. I haven't had to overshoot anyone, and the kill cam is pretty accurately reflecting the shoots I got on an enemy if I'm dropped. It feels a lot better
Anton Sugar
Member
Unless they stealth updated something today, the netcode fixes went out last week for consoles. See bolded/underlined:
Here is the stuff that came out today:
It's always possible some of their other connectivity/online fixes also improved your latency, but they didn't mention any specific tickrate improvements this week--they were deployed last week. Game has felt great for me since last week, too.
draughn101
Member
Anton Sugar
Member
Look at the same notes you (and I) posted. I'll add more emphasis:
They split it up. Last week we got 1.2 and half of 1.3; this week, we get the rest of 1.3. We all discussed this last week.
It's confusing, to be sure--but half of 1.3 came last week (as they state) and the rest came this week.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
I knew it. Been saying it since the last patch.
Edit: lol. Or not, whatever.
draughn101
Member
I honestly noticed zero change until today. I stopped playing this weekend because of how terrible the hit detection is at times, waiting for the update. I'll have to play a few more games to see if it was placebo effect on my part. If last week is an indication of what hit detection is going to be like, I'm gonna move on.
This patch did nothing for connection problems either. I've had more errors in the last few hours than I have in a while. Maybe the Xbox One is having its own issues.
Anton Sugar
Member
Don't know, bros. I have had the best matches/connectivity this past week since 1.2, personally. X1.
draughn101
Member
As far as connection goes, I had less errors with 1.2. I did notice that I was getting a ton of simulateneous kills, which I hadn't seen before, but I attributed that to server fixes. It was still apparent that the two sides were seeing vastly different things during a firefight. Seeing blood spray from the head on your screen and watching the Killcam of them three steps to the left and not being hit was pretty common.
Maybe it was placebo because I was waiting for the tick rate bump, but I notice today that people were actually dropping quickly with bursts to the chest/head and no more mag dumping to get people to drop.
Shifty Capone1
Member
This 100%. I have actually killed people with 10 rounds to the chest. Before it seemed like nothing would happen most of the time. Now it seems like you can actually quick turn and hip fire and get a kill. Before that was impossible.
Gauloisess24
Banned
I am noticing when watching console footage sometimes, the players never lean or leanpeak around corners in situations where It's almost a necessity. Is that not possible on console or very hard to pull off?
On PC It's bound to the Q and E keys and am doing it very often on instinct when going around a corner.
If it is very hard i'll just stick with the mouse and keyboard version of the game.
On PC It's bound to the Q and E keys and am doing it very often on instinct when going around a corner.
If it is very hard i'll just stick with the mouse and keyboard version of the game.
Anton Sugar
Member
It's not hard at all, just not obvious. When ADSing, you have to press the L or R stick in to lean. You can't lean when hipfiring, like you can in the PC.
Even still--ABL. Always Be Leaning. It's critical in this game.
draughn101
Member
You can. I don't know why people don't use it. I do constantly.
My PS4 downloaded and installed the 1.03 patch, anyone know the changes? EDIT: NM Found them
I've had the game since it came out but haven't played much. My cousin has been going HAM on it and finally we sat down and played together last night. Fucking awesome. Played til 3 AM lol. By far the best multiplayer shooter in a long, long time.
I've had the game since it came out but haven't played much. My cousin has been going HAM on it and finally we sat down and played together last night. Fucking awesome. Played til 3 AM lol. By far the best multiplayer shooter in a long, long time.
I would do it more often if I didn't have to ADS.
TimeEffect
Member
I am pretty sure tick rate was last week. Right?
Anton Sugar
Member
Correct.
draughn101
Member
Well whatever they did, this is the first difference I've notice to hit detection since launch. Feels much better
Chronospherics
Member
I ended up posting that GIF of the Jager wipe on plane on reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RainbowSix...n_the_demise_of_your_entire_team_fits_into_a/
The topic is pretty controversial, but fundamentally it seems like a lot of people don't like being shot outside. I know Gaz and a couple of others voiced there thoughts on this before, but I'd like to get more of your opinions, what do you think?
I do usually end up doing this strategy from time to time on most maps where it's viable (about half), and I don't see it as a bad thing at all. The way I see it, the attackers have plenty of options to negate this type of attack, and the fact that it's easier to do on some maps is good. I don't want every map to play the same and I wan't certain maps to have possibilities that aren't available on all of them. It gives them character and makes the game interesting.
You can do it on Canal, House, Plane, and Shallet in a capacity that can lead to some serious harm to the attackers if they're not prepared.
Personally I think it's just a fundamental issue with attackers and how they often think the game should be played. The game starts when the countdown starts and people forget that, thinking that the only meaningful decisions occur once you've sighted or engaged the enemy. The attackers like to feel in control, with awareness of enemy positions and the objective location, and they get frustrated when that sense of control is taken from them.
To get an idea of how effective a strategy it is, I only use Jager to do it, and Jagers kill to death ratio is at 2.5. That's significantly below my average, and quite a bit lower than many of my better characters where I adopt a more conservative playstyle. Fundamentally, I feel that reflects the risk associated with this kind of strategy. It's very easy to mediate with coordination and an awareness that when the countdown hits zero, the match has started and both teams are a threat to one another. I'm afraid this isn't a leisurely stroll up to an executive airplane experience, but that's never been what I've wanted from this game.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RainbowSix...n_the_demise_of_your_entire_team_fits_into_a/
The topic is pretty controversial, but fundamentally it seems like a lot of people don't like being shot outside. I know Gaz and a couple of others voiced there thoughts on this before, but I'd like to get more of your opinions, what do you think?
I do usually end up doing this strategy from time to time on most maps where it's viable (about half), and I don't see it as a bad thing at all. The way I see it, the attackers have plenty of options to negate this type of attack, and the fact that it's easier to do on some maps is good. I don't want every map to play the same and I wan't certain maps to have possibilities that aren't available on all of them. It gives them character and makes the game interesting.
You can do it on Canal, House, Plane, and Shallet in a capacity that can lead to some serious harm to the attackers if they're not prepared.
Personally I think it's just a fundamental issue with attackers and how they often think the game should be played. The game starts when the countdown starts and people forget that, thinking that the only meaningful decisions occur once you've sighted or engaged the enemy. The attackers like to feel in control, with awareness of enemy positions and the objective location, and they get frustrated when that sense of control is taken from them.
To get an idea of how effective a strategy it is, I only use Jager to do it, and Jagers kill to death ratio is at 2.5. That's significantly below my average, and quite a bit lower than many of my better characters where I adopt a more conservative playstyle. Fundamentally, I feel that reflects the risk associated with this kind of strategy. It's very easy to mediate with coordination and an awareness that when the countdown hits zero, the match has started and both teams are a threat to one another. I'm afraid this isn't a leisurely stroll up to an executive airplane experience, but that's never been what I've wanted from this game.
Krappadizzle
Member
I bought a copy of R6 for the PS4 even though I have it on PC. Gonna dust off the Xim4 and give it a shot and see how well it works with this game. Though I'm not sure when, I've been so addicted to the PC version and my PS4 is literally dusty from not being used(or dusted). I do wish unlocks were account bound and not console bound though.
My opinion is that I think it's fine for Defenders to attack from the outside. It just sucks when you don't know that it's a possibility and feels cheap when it first happens. As people start to get a better understanding of the maps they'll find effective ways to counter the strategy. I know I have. I'm much more cautious approaching in Kanal because of how advantageously the Defenders can counter attack right from the start. I think it'd be better if on the Airplane map, the counter for leaving as a defender is effectively 0. 2 seconds on the small platforms out there can give Defenders a big buffer to see the attacking team. The 2 second timer is fine on some of the other less centrally focused maps, but for how the Airplane map it's a bit too much. Still, it's one of those instances where I think it just feels cheap when you are starting out as with how the maps can play out, there are a seemingly infinite number of ways a match can and at the start it can feel overwhelming to take it all in.
I would say this game has a medium/steep learning curve. As you kind of have to relearn a lot of the fundamentals of how to play the game. Cover is no longer the same cover it's been in most shooters. Levels will get torn apart, you will be shot from angles that you didn't know were possible. You aren't gonna always be a hero, sometimes it's better to not risk getting that last kill.
My opinion is that I think it's fine for Defenders to attack from the outside. It just sucks when you don't know that it's a possibility and feels cheap when it first happens. As people start to get a better understanding of the maps they'll find effective ways to counter the strategy. I know I have. I'm much more cautious approaching in Kanal because of how advantageously the Defenders can counter attack right from the start. I think it'd be better if on the Airplane map, the counter for leaving as a defender is effectively 0. 2 seconds on the small platforms out there can give Defenders a big buffer to see the attacking team. The 2 second timer is fine on some of the other less centrally focused maps, but for how the Airplane map it's a bit too much. Still, it's one of those instances where I think it just feels cheap when you are starting out as with how the maps can play out, there are a seemingly infinite number of ways a match can and at the start it can feel overwhelming to take it all in.
I would say this game has a medium/steep learning curve. As you kind of have to relearn a lot of the fundamentals of how to play the game. Cover is no longer the same cover it's been in most shooters. Levels will get torn apart, you will be shot from angles that you didn't know were possible. You aren't gonna always be a hero, sometimes it's better to not risk getting that last kill.
Anton Sugar
Member
I'm not a fan of going outside to shoot attackers. Shooting them from windows is fair game.
I think it's for the same reason I disliked the ability to destroy MCOMs in BC2 from a distance, as opposed to actually having to plant them: it encourages a play style that goes against the game's fundamental Attack vs Defend design.
I think it's for the same reason I disliked the ability to destroy MCOMs in BC2 from a distance, as opposed to actually having to plant them: it encourages a play style that goes against the game's fundamental Attack vs Defend design.
Chronospherics
Member
Doesn't an Xim4 feel like cheating on console? I mean, I'm not without awareness that a mouse and keyboard is a more accurate input device for such a game.
I just say that because in the past I've experienced some controversy, where my friends would not play with another friend using an Xim4, as they perceived it as unfair.
I personally disagree with that though. In fact I think being able to go outside is absolutely essential to retain the games gameplay balance. It would be far too easy to sit on walls, roofs, or other areas, without any threat of enemy attack. As an example, if someone plants the Bomb the objective area, then they can rappel on a window outside. They do not need to look at the bomb and they can poke whenever they hear someone diffusing.
Without some capacity to go outside and deal with that, the scenario is not only unbalanced but nearly unwinnable.
I also disagree with it being fundamental to the experience the game is intending to convey. Siege and games alike are supposed to convey the 'swat' experience, and having a team mate guarding your six is essential to that. Without the ability to vault out of the window and jump into the garage below (house) there would be no flanking opportunities for the attacking team to be concerned with. As much as the attacking team would seemingly like the engagements simplified to the small field of view directly ahead of them, that just doesn't seem congruent with the games atmosphere or the experiences it draws inspiration from.
If you're getting shot outside spawn like that it's on you. There's what, 4 minutes rounds? no need for you to rush in carelessly. Anyone that cries about that probably just wants all 5 enemies to sit in the objective room and give them a free pass getting to the objective.
Reminds me of RTS that would complain about rushing because they want a massive army vs army battle.
Agreed. Defenders should be wary at all times.
Krappadizzle
Member
Kinda.
It's just not an automatic win as you are still bound to the limits of what's possible at the max sensitivity of the X1/PS4 controller for whatever game you are playing. You can never do more than is possible on it. But, yeah, it's a huge advantage. I just want to see if what I've learned on PC will make any difference to playing with the console bros.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
I think the current timer for warning attackers that a defender is outside is perfect, but being shot at spawn mere seconds after you snap out of the drones isn't something I feel is a particularly good thing. Some maps are worse about this than others, plane being especially brutal due to the long death funnel stairways. I consider myself a pretty active defender, taking on roaming duties and using shortcuts outside to get behind teams to do as much damage as possible. But I never shoot out through windows or rush teams early like that. People will like it because it gives them a very early advantage, but I'd much prefer it if defenders had to wait until at least one attacker reaches a door. After that, fuck 'em up.
chalkitdown1
Member
Umm, you ask them to leave? Or kick them?
It's not like this is a brand new, experimental feature, I can't even believe you asked the question. Every other game I play online has the option to join on your friends (those currently being Destiny, The Last of Us and Driveclub). I can't recall exactly, but I think even Mario Kart 8 let's you join your friend's races.
Siege's session system is archaic.
alpinestars1980
Member
Defenders roaming about outside is generally cheap.
That is all.
That is all.
Norwegian_Imposter
Member
Loving this game but some real highs and lows.
My only low (I find myself not getting annoyed ever with it aside from this)
http://youtu.be/zMXbtx5YRhE
And hilarious moments like this
http://youtu.be/iA9Gm7jSrj0
My only low (I find myself not getting annoyed ever with it aside from this)
http://youtu.be/zMXbtx5YRhE
And hilarious moments like this
http://youtu.be/iA9Gm7jSrj0
Norwegian_Imposter
Member
Totally agree and I unlocked blitz from our time together haha
Anton Sugar
Member
What? This makes no sense. Attackers would lose every single match if they just sat outside and tried to pick people off.
Really feel like something got lost in translation here. I said I wouldn't mind if defenders couldn't go outside--what you're describing is an attacker scenario. It's completely fine for the attackers to go outside, obviously.
This is just flat out untrue. There are plenty of flanking opportunities from within the structures, not to mention how dynamic the destruction can make the game inside.
EDIT: And let's be real--restricting the ability for defenders to roam outside the house/structure would have very little impact on the game's balance. Seriously, how many rounds/matches has going outside decided for you? Out of the ~240 matches I've played, roaming as a defender has decided maybe...five? Six?
It's a nuisance that's unnecessary--it's not integral to the gameplay or balance.
draughn101
Member
The hit detection on Xbox one is sooo much better. Whatever they did today changed it
Chronospherics
Member
I didn't say that. I said there was no risk to them yet there's high reward. For instance Glaz sitting on the treehouse on House has no significant risk, yet the spot offers very high reward (control over the main second floor corridor, restricting enemy movement and nabbing easy kills with his low contrast scope.
Without the ability for a player to step outside and threaten or kill him, there's no realistic way to suppress a good Glaz player here. Stepping into the corridor that he is already pre-aimed on is suicide against anyone that isn't terrible, therefore having the option to use the basement doorway to step out and get sight on the front of the treehouse and window actually balanced out that encounter.
Just doesn't seem like a very interesting mechanic if people can just sit and probe the inside of the house with no risk to themselves. Obviously it's easier for attackers to win those encounters, they have assault and marksman rifles, so the only thing that meditates the efficacy of such external probing strategies is the potential to be flanked and killed.
At the same time, any successful flank requires careful planning and coordination with allies, on the topic of the enemies location. Running outside the building by itself, typically yields nothing. You have to have a route in mind, you have that route secured and you have to be incredibly fast to pull any of it off.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was talking about how the defender would literally need to go outside in order to deal with this scenario, else the round is lost. If the attacker is rappeling a window after a bomb plant in a 1 vs 1 scenario, they have absolutely no incentive to expose themselves until they hear you hitting the bomb, at which point you're at a lose lose scenario, you either hit the bomb and die, or leave the bomb and wait for him at a window that he never pokes.
The only answer here against a good player is to risk a quick outdoor flank. Sure, at this stage you've already gotten yourself into a bad scenario, but you definitely should have options.
Well, it's not untrue, because I didn't say that there were no flanking opportunities from inside the building, and I provided one instance where there are none, without an outdoor flank. The garage breach has the one entry point, so flanking it isn't possible without going outdoors.
As for the frequency, I guess it's a playstyle thing, but depending on the map, I will be stepping outside the building on a very regular basis. On Clubhouse I will use the outside to move across the two second floor buildings and pincer the enemy team, on house I will use the outside to flank the garage, on Canal I will take shots as they leave spawn and then relocate to flank their adjusted location, using the opposing buildings upper floor as an out-door flank / kill opportunity. On Kafe I will hop outside the windows to kill enemies approaching the door. on Shallet I will flank the garage. I might hop outside the window ledges to kill enemies at the backyard door too. On plane I'll pop outside to figure out where they are attacking from, perhaps take a few potshots. I don't always do it, it depends on the team, the round we're in, and what I've done on the rounds before.
Every time I play or see ranked games against gold and platinum teams, I see this component as a very prevalent strategy. Certainly in the average, casual lobby it probably doesn't make a difference. But nothing does. Like I said on my reddit post on the same topic, the guys in the GIF I posted were bad. They would have been killed whether they died on the stairway or inside the plane.
But I mean, just because you don't see it often in casual lobbies doesn't mean it isn't effective and influential. I would say outdoor roaming is heavily integrated into my teams playstyle and influential to the win in about 1/3 or 1/2 of the defensive rounds I have played. The reason you see influencing the match less, is probably because you do not do it often yourself. Typical players do not.
I also think it's really easy to look at these manuevers on the outside and suggest they are cheap, but in the end, I think that really underappreciates the tactical coordination required to successfully pull them off. If you are going to do an outdoor flank you get one shot at it. You can't poke out then do it again because if you're marked you're covers blown, they know where you'll be, so you need to know where your opponent is, what he's doing, what he is (weapons etc) and his general preparedness for the strategy. If I hop up the stairwell on Canal to kill Glaz, I need to know where he is, and he needs to be unaware of me. That requires him to be relatively immobile and predictable, possibly to have forgotten to take the cameras out (often the case) and oblivious to my position. It's much harder, and far more contingent on my opponents being negligent, than you make it out to be.
Another point is, that while it may not be present in every round that perspective reflect degree of naïveté on this games dynamics. Siege offers a myriad of avenues of approach and strategy for each individual map, and the strategies, routes, windows, doors, breaches, ceilings that aren't used, are in many ways just as significant and influential on the gameplay as the ones that are. To iterate, let's say I kill one player by hopping outside the lower doorway on house on the first round. From now on, Glaz isn't going to feel safe in the tree house. Neither him, or anyone rappelling the window is going to need to carefully adapt their gameplay to accommodate the possibility that they might be approached from another avenue of attack.
Against good teams it doesn't require them to be killed in that way, to become wary of the potency of such a strategy, accommodate that into their gameplay strategies at a very fundamental level. This makes for more cautious, tactical outdoor gameplay where attackers have to place consideration on potential flanks, and encouraging teamplay and a generally more mindful approach, where allies have to cover one another as they enter the building. Even when these strategies are not explicitly employed within a match, it's very easy to see how they affect the gameplay dynamics at a very fundamental level.
How is it cheap though? It's harder for him to pull off, than it is for you to deal with it. It's absolutely contingent on the defending team making a mistake or oversight. If there were nothing you could do to accommodate it, I would understand that perspective.
It feels akin to saying something like anti-airs are cheap on Street Fighter. Please, just stop jumping. It's easier for people to blame external factors (the game or other players), than it is for them to reconsider their own behavior (adapt).
Yeah it's a world apart from yesterday
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Same here. It's what's preventing me from buying the pc version
terrorist hunt throws in the defend mode like regular multiplayer
I pretty much got to classified level 40 before i started playing regular multiplayer lol
Silver Arrows
Banned
Anybody gonna be on for PS4 tonight?
Sucks...they need to implement the data center picker ASAP on consoles