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Red Letter Media |OT| of Movies, Murderers, and Pizza Rolls

illjustleavethishere.png

I'm a bit late to talking about this. But I had to admit, they were pretty spot on with the Mike and Jay cadence and comic timing. Even if they were English and Scottish.

The director of the porn parody is the guy on the left.

This must be the single best thing i´ve ever seen in my life.
 
Holy shit, Rich :lol

I don't think I've ever been more perplexed by GAF praise for a game than Uncharted. Regardless of its failed gameplay, even its selling point, the story, is so undeniably trite. It does nothing special with the medium and overall feels like a 30% on RT.

I like Uncharted and I don't get the ridiculous praise for the story. For example there was a thread here praising the ending as some amazing innovation, when in reality it's just
the typical epilogue with the main cast's kids
that so many long-running books and shows indulge in. There are so many games now that have stories that can only be done in games or are enhanced by being games that we don't need to layer endless, hyperbolic praise on games that strive to be as close to movies as possible.
 

Pegasus Actual

Gold Member
Why? They have their (old-fashioned) taste, which is fine. If they don't have fun, that's what they should talk about. I much prefer that over reviewers that try really hard to pretend that they are "critics".
This kind of makes me wonder though. Like... for the 'platform' sections with the whoa whoa whoa I'm about to fall wait no not really bits. Or the not needing to build any momentum to make a jump. Or all the stuff he's doing one handed. I can't honestly picture someone really enjoying that. Like, these two's faces as they go through it is all I can see. Is there a playthrough somewhere I can where people are finding it fun and exciting?
 

Sblargh

Banned
This kind of makes me wonder though. Like... for the 'platform' sections with the whoa whoa whoa I'm about to fall wait no not really bits. Or the not needing to build any momentum to make a jump. Or all the stuff he's doing one handed. I can't honestly picture someone really enjoying that. Like, these two's faces as they go through it is all I can see. Is there a playthrough somewhere I can where people are finding it fun and exciting?

I am sure you can find paid youtubers, yes.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Only if you think those are bad aspects
I mean, they think these guys are failed film makers, so... yeah. lol


I like Uncharted and I don't get the ridiculous praise for the story. For example there was a thread here praising the ending as some amazing innovation, when in reality it's just
the typical epilogue with the main cast's kids
that so many long-running books and shows indulge in. There are so many games now that have stories that can only be done in games or are enhanced by being games that we don't need to layer endless, hyperbolic praise on games that strive to be as close to movies as possible.
The funny thing is that Castle, which was cancelled at basically the last minute, filmed a quick 2 minute scene and put it up on Facebook that is exactly this ending. It was hilarious.

It's the "happy ending" version of gunshot fade to black.
 
This kind of makes me wonder though. Like... for the 'platform' sections with the whoa whoa whoa I'm about to fall wait no not really bits. Or the not needing to build any momentum to make a jump. Or all the stuff he's doing one handed. I can't honestly picture someone really enjoying that. Like, these two's faces as they go through it is all I can see. Is there a playthrough somewhere I can where people are finding it fun and exciting?
Why can't you imagine people really enjoying that? If I want a legit platformer where you need momentum and precise running/jumping, I'm not playing Uncharted. I play Uncharted for the spectacle, set pieces, agile combat, and characters.
 
I don't really like playing the actual Uncharted games, but as stories they were fun Indiana Jones ripoffs, especially considering there aren't good new movies in the genre. Playing them after seeing Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was actually sort of cathartic, even if the gameplay is hot garbage.

Anyways, I hope they find a better niche for their game review show. "Old nerds grumble about how it's not like the good ol days" is a really saturated demographic, and no amount of hyperbole is going to make their show more interesting. The "movie reviewers review cinematic games as movies" thing they did for The Order was actually pretty good, and I hope they do more of that.
 
They have a real specific criteria for what makes a "good" game. Or how a story in games must be told. Seems pretty close minded to me tho.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Too bad. Watching them try to play a Call of Duty game was amazing because you could tell they wanted to hang themselves as they were playing it.

I guess The Order worked because you could finish the game in one sitting though.

They have a real specific criteria for what makes a "good" game. Or how a story in games must be told. Seems pretty close minded to me tho.
The thing is that Rich is the guy who reads everything in a game and never skips cutscenes. But the Uncharted games are both heavily scripted (auto platforming with no real choice) and cutscene heavy.
 
Too bad. Watching them try to play a Call of Duty game was amazing because you could tell they wanted to hang themselves as they were playing it.

I guess The Order worked because you could finish the game in one sitting though.


The thing is that Rich is the guy who reads everything in a game and never skips cutscenes. But the Uncharted games are both heavily scripted (auto platforming with no real choice) and cutscene heavy.

Yeah but he didn't like TLOU also so...
 

SummitAve

Banned
They have a real specific criteria for what makes a "good" game. Or how a story in games must be told. Seems pretty close minded to me tho.

I feel Uncharted is of an older design in how it breaks up story telling and gameplay, and I would consider it "close minded" in how it does so. Not that isn't a perfectly valid way to make a game, but these guys are clearly more interested in a different style of game, and I don't think that makes them close minded.
 

Pegasus Actual

Gold Member
Why can't you imagine people really enjoying that? If I want a legit platformer where you need momentum and precise running/jumping, I'm not playing Uncharted. I play Uncharted for the spectacle, set pieces, agile combat, and characters.
I just want to see if I can spot the fun in their faces. Like, do people react to the 15th "NO NO NO" pipe breaking?
 
I just want to see if I can spot the fun in their faces. Like, do people react to the 15th "NO NO NO" pipe breaking?
A game isn't a checklist. People (or at least me) aren't like "Oh, that was ledge-that-breaks-while Nate-hangs-precariously #136" when it happens. You're just along for the ride, and engrossed in the moment.
 

jman2050

Member
A game isn't a checklist. People (or at least me) aren't like "Oh, that was ledge-that-breaks-while Nate-hangs-precariously #136" when it happens. You're just along for the ride, and engrossed in the moment.

It's funny you phrase it that way, cause for me "Oh, that was ledge-that-breaks-while Nate-hangs-precariously #136" was exactly my experience playing these games.

Different strokes etc etc.
 
I feel Uncharted is of an older design in how it breaks up story telling and gameplay, and I would consider it "close minded" in how it does so. Not that isn't a perfectly valid way to make a game, but these guys are clearly more interested in a different style of game, and I don't think that makes them close minded.

Uncharted and 90% of other AAA games.
Rich is more open to it but Jack is definitely not.
These guys also said The Witness should only cost $5 and should be on phones because it's a puzzle game.
 
Uncharted and 90% of other AAA games.
Rich is more open to it but Jack is definitely not.
These guys also said The Witness should only cost $5 and should be on phones because it's a puzzle game.

At this point they should just stream games. Everytime they open their mouth over an opinion it tends to be shit.
 
The witness would have been better were it a $5 dollar pure puzzle game without all that island wandering around
I'd be able to finish the game because there wouldn't be awful color panel looking through puzzles which made the game uncompletable for me... :[
 

BigAT

Member
The witness would have been better were it a $5 dollar pure puzzle game without all that island wandering around
I'd be able to finish the game because there wouldn't be awful color panel looking through puzzles which made the game uncompletable for me... :[

You can beat the game without doing those.
 
You can beat the game without doing those.

Beat =/= complete

If I can't 100% complete the puzzles in a puzzle game then it's not worth it to me. The plot and island exploration elements just got in the way of the puzzles and the game had puzzles that I couldn't do thankfully psn was swell enough to refund me for it.
 

BigAT

Member
Beat =/= complete

If I can't 100% complete the puzzles in a puzzle game then it's not worth it to me. The plot and island exploration elements just got in the way of the puzzles and the game had puzzles that I couldn't do thankfully psn was swell enough to refund me for it.

Look up the solutions to those puzzles and move on? It was such a small percentage of the game.

If you didn't like The Witness then whatever, but it seems absurd to say "get rid of the island, only have the puzzles", when the island was absolutely integral to such a large portion of the puzzles.
 
Why? They have their (old-fashioned) taste, which is fine. If they don't have fun, that's what they should talk about. I much prefer that over reviewers that try really hard to pretend that they are "critics".

As mod More_Badass has already hinted at, first off, they are entirely predictable. There's no excitement or interest from what they say about games because it is always the same. Moreover, they have an agenda. They've already spoken on how they get much more hits when they are negative about popular games, and so they do that more and more, and it's no surprise that something like Uncharted or The Witness or any other high published or talked-about game gets negative comments from them. Three, they are incredible shallow in their criticism. Saying something like The Witness should be a five dollar iPhone game is entirely misguided and misses the entire point of the game (and ironic since that is a mostly mechanical game that they seem to enjoy.... and, tangentially, they don't play enough of games to finish them, but whatever), and their dismissals of Uncharted 4 and Last of Us for only the first small percentages of those games is rushing to pass judgement; it'd be like complaining about 2001: A Space Odyssey because there's nothing but monkeys.

The closed mindedness of them is frustrating and gross as someone who enjoys the medium. I love film, as does my grandma. If I went into every horror movie, since they seem to do well financially, and complained that they are "quiet quiet LOUD quiet" or predisposed myself to remark how terrible they are because it would get me hits on my also-ran youtube channel, I'd miss out on stuff like It Follows, or The Conjuring, or The Exorcist, or The Thing, or whatever. And, to compare them to my grandma, it'd be as if saying film peaked and offered very little from 1940s onward.

So, yeah, it's not that I disagree with their points on Pre-Rec regarding games because I value criticism that challenges me and my thoughts (though I haven't watched a review of theirs in well over a year and only catch streams with Jay on them... Speaking of, I wish Shy would point out when Jay was on a stream when he posts in this thread), I'd be fine. But it is the fact that they are closed minded, shallow, ignorant, and doing some of it for "the clicks" that I'm confident when I call it "predictable trash," and that it bothers me that people, because of the RLM connection, seem to reinforce their silly ideas on what games should and shouldn't be in such narrow and trivial ways. I think one of the best things they criticized was The Order because they got to use their film backgrounds on a mostly cinematic game that failed in every conceivable way to be cinematic (even if Jack screws up his film terminology in that review, and they don't go that far into the basics of filmmaking to explain why that game fails).

Maybe video games are a crap medium since it brings out the pettiness and superficiality in people... like comic book movies. Maybe it is that people online who are young and/or don't read actual criticism don't understand it. I don't know.

And, that's probably my last words on Pre-Rec other than asking if Jay is on a stream. Sorry.


Edit: sorry for some spelling and auto grammar errors. I typed it on a iPad.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
As mod More_Badass has already hinted at, first off, they are entirely predictable. There's no excitement or interest from what they say about games because it is always the same. Moreover, they have an agenda. They've already spoken on how they get much more hits when they are negative about popular games, and so they do that more and more, and it's no surprise that something like Uncharted or The Witness or any other high published or talked-about game gets negative comments from them. Three, they are incredible shallow in their criticism. Saying something like The Witness should be a five dollar iPhone game is entirely misguided and misses the entire point of the game (and ironic since that is a mostly mechanical game that they seem to enjoy.... and, tangentially, they don't play enough of games to finish them, but whatever), and their dismissals of Uncharted 4 and Last of Us for only the first small percentages of those games is rushing to pass judgement; it'd be like complaining about 2001: A Space Odyssey because there's nothing but monkeys.
They loved the fuck out of Bloodborne and the new Doom. I mean, did anyone think these guys would love Bloodborne? Just because they don't like the games every critic is supposed to love unconditionally doesn't make them contrarians.

Look at the fact that Jack liked Firewatch, which you would think he would hate based on past history. There's no real box you can fit them in other than the fact that, in general, they prefer interactive storytelling to be interactive.
 

Shy

Member
(though I haven't watched a review of theirs in well over a year and only catch streams with Jay on them... Speaking of, I wish Shy would point out when Jay was on a stream when he posts in this thread), I'd be fine.
Sorry.
They change what the do a lot, so i never say when i link because i don't want to mislead people.

But i do try to edit my post to say when Jay is there though.

I'll try to put it in my link when i make the original post.
 
Look at the fact that Jack liked Firewatch, which you would think he would hate based on past history. There's no real box you can fit them in other than the fact that, in general, they prefer interactive storytelling to be interactive.

I don't really see how Firewatch is more interactive than Uncharted 4.

illjustleavethishere.png

I'm a bit late to talking about this. But I had to admit, they were pretty spot on with the Mike and Jay cadence and comic timing. Even if they were English and Scottish.

The director of the porn parody is the guy on the left.


Gotta ask, is it gay porn?
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I don't really see how Firewatch is more interactive than Uncharted 4.
I haven't played Firewatch, but I assume there's actual exploration in that game for one. And more specifically, the story is told through interacting with the game instead of watching movies.
 
I haven't played Firewatch, but I assume there's actual exploration in that game for one. And more specifically, the story is told through interacting with the game instead of watching movies.
The game has very little interaction, much less than something like uncharted. The difference is you have somewhat of an impact in the relationship of the characters, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter.

I left Firewatch feeling I should have bought it on a sale, but I want to stress I was also not a fan of gone home.
 

peakish

Member
They loved the fuck out of Bloodborne and the new Doom. I mean, did anyone think these guys would love Bloodborne? Just because they don't like the games every critic is supposed to love unconditionally doesn't make them contrarians.

Look at the fact that Jack liked Firewatch, which you would think he would hate based on past history. There's no real box you can fit them in other than the fact that, in general, they prefer interactive storytelling to be interactive.
They don't like story games, until they do. They don't like AAA games, until they do. They're close minded, until they're not.

Maybe they're just gamers.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
The game has very little interaction, much less than something like uncharted. The difference is you have somewhat of an impact in the relationship of the characters, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter.

I left Firewatch feeling I should have bought it on a sale, but I want to stress I was also not a fan of gone home.
I mean, I'm waiting for Firewatch to be in a Humble Bundle for precisely that reason.

But after playing presumably the same four hours of Uncharted 4 that they did, I was bored out of my mind and never want to go back to the game ever again. So I totally understand why Rich would whine about "let me play the gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame".
 
They don't like story games, until they do. They don't like AAA games, until they do. They're close minded, until they're not.

Maybe they're just gamers.
They just have a very very particular taste. The issue stems that where Mike and Jay can dislike popular, or critically acclaimed movies, they at least tend to make a case as to why they don't like it.

With pre rec they actually have much more time to make a coherent argument than half in the bag. They play a game, then meet up later to discuss it. Instead they come in guns blazing like if they had just played it without critical thought and very very watered down critiques. So what's left is either a mean spirited "it was shit" or a "I liked it".

Like I've said before their most interesting review was shovel Knight because it was the both of them arguing the merits of nostalgia vs quality.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
They just have a very very particular taste. The issue stems that where Mike and Jay can dislike popular, or critically acclaimed movies, they at least tend to make a case as to why they don't like it.
Maybe it's their streams, but they've articulated many times why they don't like the Uncharted series and not surprisingly, Uncharted 4 was not going to be an exception.

I almost wonder if they decided not to do a live stream because they expected the game to be as boring as the Chinese AOL video or some other Wheel video, so they'd probably have nothing to say for four hours.
 
Maybe it's their streams, but they've articulated many times why they don't like the Uncharted series and not surprisingly, Uncharted 4 was not going to be an exception.

I almost wonder if they decided not to do a live stream because they expected the game to be as boring as the Chinese AOL video or some other Wheel video, so they'd probably have nothing to say for four hours.
Uncharted is not a game to stream unless you're specifically doing a silent walk through.

I enjoy the story and the characters, the gameplay is bonus. I enjoy the platforming, I tolerate the shooting.

If I had my way I'd rather it be a movie series but then again we wouldn't have those stunning Visuals.
 
I haven't played Firewatch, but I assume there's actual exploration in that game for one. And more specifically, the story is told through interacting with the game instead of watching movies.

To imply that Uncharted 4's story is told solely through "watching movies" is kind of ridiculous. We don't get dropped into a digital state fair shooting gallery between cutscenes, where the gameplay doesn't pertain to the story, do we?

The gameplay unarguably moves the story forward. The fact that they choose to tell it linearly isn't a negative, or at least shouldn't be. And besides, the open parts in Uncharted 4 are far more open than those in Firewatch, whose story is essentially told in corridors, unless you want to waste time by exploring parts you'll pass further into it anyway.

Now you've got me arguing against Firewatch. I loved the game, I swear!
 
I like their reviews because their views line up a lot with my own, in that they also dislike game design where you essentially move from one setpiece to the next with cutscenes/exposition playing in between and there's never any real consequences either to the story or to the gameplay as a result of your actions.

I have absolutely no interest in AAA third person shooter/story games because after the enemies have filed in from their entry point into the arena, you can pretty much just wander around from on piece of cover to another never shooting at any of them and they'll never kill you because you regenerate your health. It removes any sort of stakes or feeling of player agency from the game and as I write this I'm mentally comparing it to playing a prettier version of Duck Hunt where the ducks never fly off the screen and you have unlimited ammo so you cannot lose, but you can also never progress in the game until you shoot all the ducks.

They liked Doom because there's actual ammo/health management in Doom and you can't just go sit behind a wall until your health comes back. Your play affects your ability to progress through the game. This is what the poster above was talking about when he mentioned interactive storytelling being interactive.
 

peakish

Member
They just have a very very particular taste. The issue stems that where Mike and Jay can dislike popular, or critically acclaimed movies, they at least tend to make a case as to why they don't like it.

With pre rec they actually have much more time to make a coherent argument than half in the bag. They play a game, then meet up later to discuss it. Instead they come in guns blazing like if they had just played it without critical thought and very very watered down critiques. So what's left is either a mean spirited "it was shit" or a "I liked it".

Like I've said before their most interesting review was shovel Knight because it was the both of them arguing the merits of nostalgia vs quality.
That's fair and I'll cosign that some of their critique is very surface level (did you remember that Rich couldn't play the Windows version of Quantum Break?!). That's kind of different from comments about "shit taste".

Went to watch the UC video and it's weirdly inoffensive to have spawned this comment thread. Except the comedic attempts.
 
That's fair and I'll cosign that some of their critique is very surface level (did you remember that Rich couldn't play the Windows version of Quantum Break?!). That's kind of different from comments about "shit taste".

Went to watch the UC video and it's weirdly inoffensive to have spawned this comment thread. Except the comedic attempts.
I haven't even watched it but I'm not backing down from my argument that usually they come in with a lot of unwarranted hate, rich especially has crazy high standards and doesn't convey why, so on the rare occasions he likes something I'm either thinking "well there's little to dislike about the game". And that tends to be all I get from the review when they like something.

Half in the bag works because I don't always agree with them, but I see their point. Liking reviews because the person tends to agree with you is fairly low on the totem pole of entertainment or thought process, you're essentially just reassuring your opinion. Mike and Jay, and rich and Jack when they're there to be fair, are much more coherent with film critique even when they just watched it.

I feel almost sad that they aren't transferring this to video game reviews for the most part. At this point I'd rather they change the format of the reviews and just make it more scripted or bring Bullet points for arguments.

I'm just ranting though, i just feel pre rec could be more if they put the effort but as of right now it just seems like the reviews are a side project vs another full series for the site to match the big ones.
 

peakish

Member
I haven't even watched it but I'm not backing down from my argument that usually they come in with a lot of unwarranted hate, rich especially has crazy high standards and doesn't convey why, so on the rare occasions he likes something I'm either thinking "well there's little to dislike about the game". And that tends to be all I get from the review when they like something.
I don't see why you should be backing down when I never challenged this.
 
Haha no I wasn't saying you were, I was just stating it again for no raisin. Ill just make an ass of myself if I keep going this sleep deprived, if people are still talking about this tomorrow I'll join in again.
 
Sounds like HitB is on a bit of a break for the summer since they have nothing they wish to watch, so expect more re:View episodes.

Consequently, do you think the re:View stuff will affect the frequency of commentary tracks?
 

Myggen

Member
Sounds like HitB is on a bit of a break for the summer since they have nothing they wish to watch, so expect more re:View episodes.

Consequently, do you think the re:View stuff will affect the frequency of commentary tracks?

It really depends on their production schedule. You could say that more of anything might affect the frequency of something else since they only have so much time, but it`s impossible to know without also knowing their schedule.
 
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