Support NeoGAF

[JokerMM]

TFA was a global event. I remember the excitement I felt knowing there's a star wars movie coming out, I didn't sleep the night the before, I couldn't.
Fast forward to TRoS, and holy shit the amount fucks I gave during and after, with pretty much anything SW related, is in the negatives.
It's not just SW but alot of other stuff too.
Am I getting old or the world is getting... colorless?
It's probably me getting old

 

[Elfstar]

Yeah, the TLJ-TRoS one-two punch (and even TFA's shallow 'memberberries festival in hindsight) utterly destroyed the series' magic.
Unlikeable characters, horrible unplanned plot that erased all the old trilogy cast's accomplishments while also thorougly shitting on them, no new cool designs, just garbage with no reedeming qualities that made clear to everyone that Star Wars wasn't special anymore but just another middling franchise in Disney's factory.

 

[Little Mac]

Return of the Jedi came out in 1983 and it's been downhill from there. Quit doing this to yourself.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Being excited for TFA was your first mistake, OP.

 

[jonnyp]

Not really. I was excited by The Phantom Menace but it sucked ass and I haven't been excited since.

 

[Firestartah]

Return of the Jedi came out in 1983 and it's been downhill from there. Quit doing this to yourself.

But Revenge of the Sith is the best movie.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

The only thing they had to do was just to film Thrawn trilogy…

Example of incredible pettiness since I am sure they didn’t want to do it because that meant renegotiation with Zahn and giving him the cut for adaptation.

 

[ManaByte]

TFA was a global event. I remember the excitement I felt knowing there's a star wars movie coming out, I didn't sleep the night the before, I couldn't.
Fast forward to TRoS, and holy shit the amount fucks I gave during and after, with pretty much anything SW related, is in the negatives.
It's not just SW but alot of other stuff too.
Am I getting old or the world is getting... colorless?
It's probably me getting old

TFA was the first new Star Wars movie in TEN YEARS (after George Lucas said the series was done) and the sequel to Return of the Jedi. No movie in history will ever match that and anyone pretending a movie could match that is delusional.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I really enjoyed TFA, but unfortunately we live in a time where once something is a success the attitude is to keep doing something until people are sick of it.

Star Wars can't be exciting when there's a new show/film as regularly as there currently is. Same with superhero films.

 

[Artoris]

I really enjoyed TFA, but unfortunately we live in a time where once something is a success the attitude is to keep doing something until people are sick of it.

Star Wars can't be exciting when there's a new show/film as regularly as there currently is. Same with superhero films.

"I really enjoyed TFA"

watchable at best

 

[Mr Reasonable]

"I really enjoyed TFA"

watchable at best

"Everyone must agree with me, my opinion is all that matters"

 

[Artoris]

"Everyone must agree with me, my opinion is all that matters"

I believe that you do think like that

 

[Phobos Base]

TFA was a solid base, but they made the inexplicable decision to start shooting a trilogy with no set roadmap. The you get the sequel that goes off in a completely different direction and recieves a load of backlash, so they course correct into the awful mess that was RoS which felt like they were making it up as it went along.

 

[Madonis]

If you ask me...TFA was creatively hollow, at heart, but at least had a decent sense of nostalgia going for it. Was there a ton of excitement for the film? Absolutely.

TLJ was controversial at the time, yet I still felt engaged. I thought it had a clearer and more compelling directorial vision than the previous movie. One way or another, the director was taking risks. There was enough potential left to make everything come together in a relatively new way. Sure, not everyone liked each of the specific decisions they made (and neither did I)...but at least there was something going on.

Sadly, Rise of Skywalker lacked even that much. Vision? It had nothing. The attempted fanservice was so poorly handled that it became a disservice. Bad writing, terrible pacing.

Ultimately, the sequel trilogy suffered from a crippling lack of consistency and planning. If they were going for full nostalgia, then it should have been carefully crafted and written. If they wanted to try and innovate, then they shouldn't have lost their nerve after TLJ. All of this has made me hesitant to watch newer Star Wars projects, despite knowing some of them are good.

 

[ManaByte]

but they made the inexplicable decision to start shooting a trilogy with no set roadmap.

You mean like how George Lucas made the original trilogy AND prequels? SHOCKING.

Hell, it would've been WORSE had George Lucas made the sequels. His original plan was to make his Episode VII (The Last Jedi) and THEN sell the company and let the new owner figure out how to finish the trilogy.

 

[Madonis]

You mean like how George Lucas made the original trilogy AND prequels? SHOCKING.

Hell, it would've been WORSE had George Lucas made the sequels. His original plan was to make his Episode VII (The Last Jedi) and THEN sell the company and let the new owner figure out how to finish the trilogy.

That's true, yet Lucas himself was holding everything together. Not alone, to be quite honest, but his involvement provided a sense of continuity even if his logic wasn't always the best.

Even if he wasn't going to directly make any of the sequels, keeping him personally involved at least in some sort of advisory capacity would have been helpful.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I believe that you do think like that

No mate, what happened was I gave my opinion and then you leapt to tell me it was wrong. I respect your right to not agree with me.

 

[Artoris]

No mate, what happened was I gave my opinion and then you leapt to tell me it was wrong. I respect your right to not agree with me.

You said the film is about 8/10 I said it's about 5/10 stating my opinion of the film

and then you suddenly jump to this

"Everyone must agree with me, my opinion is all that matters"

How are these two points connected?

 

[ManaByte]

yet Lucas himself was holding everything together.

No he wasn't. That was a myth. Lucas had a lot of people holding it together. In the OT it was Gary Kurtz. The Prequels had his Yes Man McCallum and others. Hell Lucas didn't even remember Obi-Wan giving Luke the saber in ANH so when Obi-Wan left it on the ground in Episode III on Mustafar, they had to go back and film an insert in reshoots of him picking it up because Lucas forgot and someone pointed it out to him.

Even if he wasn't going to directly make any of the sequels, keeping him personally involved at least in some sort of advisory capacity would have been helpful.

You think you want that, but you don't. Not only was his Episode VII the same story as The Last Jedi (everyone's favorite movie here), his Sequels were going to be all about the Midichorians, which everyone now pretends to love but in 1999 they said George raped their childhoods with them.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

You said the film is about 8/10

 

[Madonis]

No he wasn't. That was a myth. Lucas had a lot of people holding it together. In the OT it was Gary Kurtz. The Prequels had his Yes Man McCallum and others. Hell Lucas didn't even remember Obi-Wan giving Luke the saber in ANH so when Obi-Wan left it on the ground in Episode III on Mustafar, they had to go back and film an insert in reshoots of him picking it up because Lucas forgot and someone pointed it out to him.

I know he had a lot of help from those individuals and others, that's what I was indirectly referencing right after what you quoted. Thank you for including the specifics. Nevertheless, the fact remains he was still a key factor throughout all of the other movies, both for better and for worse. You can still make Star Wars without him (even good Star Wars!), but it's not the same.

You think you want that, but you don't. Not only was his Episode VII the same story as The Last Jedi (everyone's favorite movie here), his Sequels were going to be all about the Midichorians, which everyone now pretends to love but in 1999 they said George raped their childhoods with them.

Perhaps, but movies can and will change during production. I don't think he placed too much emphasis on the concept. If they were brought up as a plot point once again and then we move on, then I'd likely shrug but otherwise tolerate it. Only way to find out would be to use a time machine and those are currently in short supply.

 

[Insane Metal]

No, I don't.

 

[ManaByte]

I know he had a lot of help from those individuals and others, that's what I was indirectly referencing right after what you quoted. Thank you for including the specifics. Nevertheless, the fact remains he was still a key factor throughout all of the other movies, both for better and for worse. You can still make Star Wars without him (even good Star Wars!), but it's not the same.

You forget how much people hated Lucas.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

You said the film is about 8/10 I said it's about 5/10 stating my opinion of the film

and then you suddenly jump to this

"Everyone must agree with me, my opinion is all that matters"

How are these two points connected?

Because the point I was making was about saturation of film/tv market, not a review of the film. I didn't give the film a rating, didn't describe the circumstances of my viewing. But you disregarded the actual point I was making to jump on a detail of my post to tell me I was wrong.

Have a nice day!

 

[Trilobit]

I heard the next trilogy would be about Rey again, so if that's true I have not much hope for the future of SW.

 

[Krappadizzle]

I don't think anything can match up to The Phantom Menace's release in my opinion. The dormant movie franchise that became a multimedia juggernaut that had built a nearly 20 year absence. It was amazing. And back then, that lack of social media, not everyone had to hate everything immediately, so as a kid, it was easy to let yourself get into it.

It's all nostalgia though. Nostalgia is fun and can be endearing, but it doesn't paint the whole picture either. Chances are your life back then was substantially less stressful or at least to the same degree it is now so it's easy to remember things then as "better".

Same shit will happen 10 years from now with a new group/generation.

 

[ManaByte]

And back then, that lack of social media, not everyone had to hate everything immediately, so as a kid, it was easy to let yourself get into it.

Nah, people still hated it. The hatred put Jake Lloyd in a mental hospital and Ahmed Best tried to jump off a bridge to kill himself. Never underestimate the power of hate among Star Wars "fans".

 

[Krappadizzle]

Nah, people still hated it. The hatred put Jake Lloyd in a mental hospital and Ahmed Best tried to jump off a bridge to kill himself. Never underestimate the power of hate among Star Wars "fans".

I mean.. I remember people definitely dunked on the kid and do know the issues he went through as a result, but I'd bet it'd have been much worse today if released in the same conditions just with social media having existed.

I think by the time Clone Wars was close to releasing, people kind of came around to realizing what was happening with the franchise.

 

[Brian Fellows]

Yes and then that feeling was immediately killed by The Phantom Menace.

 

[Trunx81]

The hype around Episode 1 was MASSIVE. You couldn’t go out of your house without encountering ads for toys, shirts and other stuff with the films logo on it.

It also was the time when movies took more time to be dubbed, so the first time seeing it was in the basement of a friend of mine, on a small CRT TV, as a screener. I’m pretty sure TPM made illegal online distribution of movies mainstream.
After the movie was over, my friends and I agreed that the strange feeling had to do with the bad quality of the material. Not with the film itself. So we went to the cinema when it released … and boy, have we been wrong. As long time SW fans, TPM was a mess. Everything was all over the place, with JarJar, “are you an Angel” and Midiclorians. I also Never liked the “clean look” of the prequels, where everything seems to not have any texture at all.

TFA felt different. JJ had a good reputation, his Star Trek reboot felt fresh, I liked LOST and even Mission Impossible 3. He was the savior of franchises.
Saw the movie with my son and we both felt right at home again. Back was the gritty galaxy from the OT. The action was fast paced and even the 201x humor was acceptable. Some scenes like the one on Hans ship felt a bit out of place, and just killing of the Republic with a few laser beams was cheap. But otherwise, we had a good time.

TLJ was, when everything fell apart. This reboot of the first episode of Battlestar Galactica tried to do some new stuff, I give it credit for that. And the ending tried to replicate the hopelessness from Episode 5. But the flaws .. well, they’ve been talked about enough on this board.

Then JJ came back, to save what he started. And boy did he miss the target. The worst part about TroS is clearly one thing:
Palpatine message that he’s back - but only announced during a FORTNITE SPECIAL. Are you kidding me? That game already made Avengers Endgame loose any credibility.

It went downhill from there.

 

[ManaByte]

TFA felt different. JJ had a good reputation, his Star Trek reboot felt fresh, I liked LOST and even Mission Impossible 3. He was the savior of franchises.
Saw the movie with my son and we both felt right at home again. Back was the gritty galaxy from the OT. The action was fast paced and even the 201x humor was acceptable. Some scenes like the one on Hans ship felt a bit out of place, and just killing of the Republic with a few laser beams was cheap. But otherwise, we had a good time.

TFA was just a remake of ANH. JJ Abrams came in and didn't want to make The Last Jedi (Lucas' Episode VII) so he threw out that outline to remake A New Hope.

Then JJ came back, to save what he started. And boy did he miss the target. The worst part about TroS is clearly one thing:
Palpatine message that he’s back - but only announced during a FORTNITE SPECIAL. Are you kidding me? That game already made Avengers Endgame loose any credibility.

Palpatine returning was a George thing. The sunken Death Star II ruins were in his Episode VII (TLJ) and the return played into the whole Midichorlians stuff.

JJ only returned because Trevarrow's Book of Henry was the worst movie of the year and they couldn't make his EpIX without Carrie Fisher.

 

[Saber]

It was already a red flag when the whole moronic idea of "the force is female" came to fruit. It was just that bitch director taking fame and credit for work that wasn't from her. Theres nothing salvagable in this trilogy, because it was made for all the wrong reasons. Its a putrit film, using Star Wars brand and nostalgia as bait.
And thats not to say theres a tiny potential in a few ideas there. The movie could be pretty much about the solo star trooper.

 

[ManaByte]

It was just that bitch director taking fame and credit for work that wasn't from her.

HUH?

 

[MMaRsu]

Not really. The only Star Wars releases within my lifetime back in the day were Episode 1/2/3.

After Episode 1 we were really kind of soured on it already.

This is all just fabricated bullcrap, the only good movies were the old ones 4/5/6.

 

[Fbh]

I don't think it's about getting older, it's mostly about everything just getting milked into the ground these days.
A new Star Wars movie felt exciting because it was a rare occurrence, in terms of proper live action Star Wars content (so not cartoons, comics and videogames) we got 6 movies in the 28 years between 1977 and 2005.

In the 8 years since TFA we got: TFA, Rogue One, Solo, TLJ, Rise of Skywalker, 3 Seasons of The Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett, Obi Wan, Ashoka and Andor.
It's just another generic mass produced entertainment franchise now, a new Star Wars movie or show is like a new season of Grey's Anatomy.

 

[Madflavor]

The Sequels were terrible. But their worst crimes? Let’s see…

- Turned Luke into a failure and a sad pathetic piece of shit who gave up on his family.
- Turned Han into a failure and a sad pathetic piece of shit who gave up on
his family.
- Leia lost her husband and her only child. Died alone without her family and friends.
- Anakin was no longer the Chosen One because somehow Palpatine returned.
- The accomplishments of the OTs heroes were undone in order to return the Galaxy to the status quo of Rebels vs Empire, because PF/Disney are creatively bankrupt.
- Luke, Han and Leia didn’t share one scene together.
- Luke and Force Ghost Anakin didn’t share one scene together.
- Ben and Force Ghost Anakin didn’t share one scene together.

They took this from you, and now it’s too late. They destroyed the heart of Star Wars. The franchise will never recover from this, and will never reach the popularity and goodwill it had pre-TLJ. Gen Z don’t resonate with Star Wars, and the bad movies/shows have turned off many of the older fans. Apathy is setting in. Apathy is the franchise killer.

The Disney Star Wars era will go down in cinematic history as a cautionary tale, and the biggest mishandling of a hugely popular franchise.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

TFA was the first new Star Wars movie in TEN YEARS (after George Lucas said the series was done) and the sequel to Return of the Jedi. No movie in history will ever match that and anyone pretending a movie could match that is delusional.

TFA was O.K. It was to be the springboard they needed to revitalize the whole Star Wars brand... nope. Nooooooope! The Last Jedi really was the last fuckin' straw.
Made a complete joke of everything that was established before it. Going forward, this fucking... franchise... this limping, fucking dying fish of a franchise, on it's final, laboring breaths... we got shoehorned Palpatine, shitty fights... I mean... they couldn't come up with a single fight, worthy enough to compare to anything they did in PM, AoTC, RoTS? Come on!!

 

[Werewolf Jones]

People gotta stop giving The Force Awakens the pass.

 

[ManaByte]

TFA was O.K. It was to be the springboard they needed to revitalize the whole Star Wars brand... nope. Nooooooope! The Last Jedi really was the last fuckin' straw.
Made a complete joke of everything that was established before it. Going forward, this fucking... franchise... this limping, fucking dying fish of a franchise, on it's final, laboring breaths... we got shoehorned Palpatine, shitty fights... I mean... they couldn't come up with a single fight, worthy enough to compare to anything they did in PM, AoTC, RoTS? Come on!!

People were crying they wanted George's Episode VII and they got it.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

People were crying they wanted George's Episode VII and they got it.

I'm a fan of the movies. I wasn't one of the people shitting on George.

 

[Trunx81]

The Sequels were terrible. But their worst crimes? Let’s see…

- Turned Luke into a failure and a sad pathetic piece of shit who gave up on his family.
- Turned Han into a failure and a sad pathetic piece of shit who gave up on
his family.
- Leia lost her husband and her only child. Died alone without her family and friends.
- Anakin was no longer the Chosen One because somehow Palpatine returned.
- The accomplishments of the OTs heroes were undone in order to return the Galaxy to the status quo of Rebels vs Empire, because PF/Disney are creatively bankrupt.
- Luke, Han and Leia didn’t share one scene together.
- Luke and Force Ghost Anakin didn’t share one scene together.
- Ben and Force Ghost Anakin didn’t share one scene together.

They took this from you, and now it’s too late. They destroyed the heart of Star Wars. The franchise will never recover from this, and will never reach the popularity and goodwill it had pre-TLJ. Gen Z don’t resonate with Star Wars, and the bad movies/shows have turned off many of the older fans. Apathy is setting in. Apathy is the franchise killer.

The Disney Star Wars era will go down in cinematic history as a cautionary tale, and the biggest mishandling of a hugely popular franchise.

Force Ghost Anakin was glooming over Ashoka. No time for family.

And Episode 9 could still have been a good movie with a good script. Why stick to Lucas’ idea of Palpatine return? It’s the Skywalker saga, not the Palpatine saga. TLJ established that there are more force users in the world (now also canon in Jedi Fallen Order). Why not go from there? But no, JJ had to go back into nostalgia territory ..

And what is it about this modern trend to give established old heroes the “I am sad and want to die, while a young person does everything better than me” arc?

 

[ManaByte]

Force Ghost Anakin was glooming over Ashoka. No time for family.

And Episode 9 could still have been a good movie with a good script. Why stick to Lucas’ idea of Palpatine return? It’s the Skywalker saga, not the Palpatine saga. TLJ established that there are more force users in the world (now also canon in Jedi Fallen Order). Why not go from there? But no, JJ had to go back into nostalgia territory ..

And what is it about this modern trend to give established old heroes the “I am sad and want to die, while a young person does everything better than me” arc?

In George's ST, Palpatine returned, but he WAS NOT Rey/Kira's grandfather. But Rey/Kira/Taryn DID take the Skywalker name at the end. TROS was his title I believe. His whole point of his ST was that the Force was stronger than a bloodline. He based it on raising two daughters he adopted. George's ST was a young nobody girl from a snow planet named Taryn (eventually changed to Kira and then Rey when Disney realized they couldn't trademark "Kira) who finds hermit Luke in Ep7 (and then Luke dies) and she goes on to learn how to be a Jedi, eventually taking the Skywalker name in Ep9. Kylo existed as Skyler in Lucas' ST, but he was seduced to the Dark Side by Darth Talon from the SW Legacy comics. Finn was there with a different name (and white). Poe is a combination of a couple of mercenary characters in the Michael Arndt version of George's Ep7 (which became TLJ), where Taryn/Skylar hired them to find Luke.

But people would've HATED it. Because George was going to make Leia the Chosen One, not Anakin, at the end of the trilogy.

 

[Elfstar]

To be honest, TFA may be, in hindsight, the biggest offender in the sequel trilogy.

It managed to be well received because it retreaded point for point what people liked about the series in a pretty watchable flick, but at what cost?
It was the one that actually set up the fact that what all we've seen in the OG Trilogy was worthless and our heroes became old failed pieces of shit, just because they needed a braindead off-screen return to the status quo for their ultra-safe, imagination-less, soulless nostalgia bait soft reboot movie.
It was the one that set up drab, boring-ass Ray as the protagonist, her worthless comic relief sidekick Finn, trash whatshisface Snoke as the villain, and all those dumb JJ Mystery Boxes that were never actually planned.

In the end, I may actually blame this film the most, even over TLJ.

 

[BouncyFrag]

Disney shat the bed with SW and it almost seems intentional. I don’t care about SW anymore.

A badass, incredible Vader movie could bring things back but as of now Disney wouldn’t be able to pull that off if they even wanted too. Fucking hacks.

 

[tamago84]

disney milking everything to death nothing else matters

 

[ManaByte]

A badass, incredible Vader movie

There's already a Vader trilogy.

 

[EviLore]

Disney Lucasfilm ruins everything it touches.

 

[dave_d]

And Episode 9 could still have been a good movie with a good script. Why stick to Lucas’ idea of Palpatine return? It’s the Skywalker saga, not the Palpatine saga. TLJ established that there are more force users in the world (now also canon in Jedi Fallen Order). Why not go from there? But no, JJ had to go back into nostalgia territory ..

One thing that struck me about TLJ is at the end of the movie both sides had lost. (Neither was a functional entity anymore after they had beat each other into oblivion.) Given that you're right, they had some room to do something new and interesting with the aftermath of that war. I never saw TRoS but I guess we didn't get it.

 

[Big Baller]

Nah, I dont remember. I've only cared about the SW games if Im being honest.

 

[Elfstar]

In George's ST, Palpatine returned, but he WAS NOT Rey/Kira's grandfather. But Rey/Kira/Taryn DID take the Skywalker name at the end. TROS was his title I believe. His whole point of his ST was that the Force was stronger than a bloodline. He based it on raising two daughters he adopted. George's ST was a young nobody girl from a snow planet named Taryn (eventually changed to Kira and then Rey when Disney realized they couldn't trademark "Kira) who finds hermit Luke in Ep7 (and then Luke dies) and she goes on to learn how to be a Jedi, eventually taking the Skywalker name in Ep9. Kylo existed as Skyler in Lucas' ST, but he was seduced to the Dark Side by Darth Talon from the SW Legacy comics. Finn was there with a different name (and white). Poe is a combination of a couple of mercenary characters in the Michael Arndt version of George's Ep7 (which became TLJ), where Taryn/Skylar hired them to find Luke.

But people would've HATED it. Because George was going to make Leia the Chosen One, not Anakin, at the end of the trilogy.

Honestly, this still sounds more compelling than what they actually did with TLJ. Execution is what matters most.