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[BasicUAE]

As a budding product designer, this seems like the most comfortable compromise between portability, usability, and comfort.

To me, anything bigger is too cumbersome, anything smaller and the controllers are not very usable.

FYI, the outline is laid on top of a 6.2 inch in-car media system and the hand works as a reference of scale.

 

[KingSnake]

Pretty sure that is more the norm than the exception. Though of course it is more enviable to be in the position of the exception where demand continues outpacing supply.

What consoles got their price cut in less than a year from launch?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

The point would be to establish a brand. And to show off the capability of their silicon.

And just because products are on the market and being sold doesn't mean they make money.

They might have changed their mind along the way as this was from January 2013, but the original pitch of Shield was not to sell at a loss.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=507313

The business model that stems from this means we’ll make our money by selling the device to gamers. (And we hope, by the way, that they’ll love it.)

 

[LegendofLex]

No, it wasn't me who brought this into the discussion. I just compared similar products, because NX should have a Tegra in it. I just answered at the ridiculousness of the idea that Nintendo can still charge a premium tax on their hardware given the history of the previous launches and what a deep wound those launches cut into Nintendo's finances.

Yeah, I can agree with you there.

It sounded like you were straight up saying that Shield is somehow a more premium product than NX, which I think is silly tbh.

There's only one Nintendo product that I think was at all deserving of a premium price, and that's Wii. (Many people criticized it for being $250 instead of $200 back in 2006. That $50 difference was a premium, even if it was also driven by cost concerns.)

Nintendo will never occupy anything more than "toy" territory because it never attempted to be a premium brand. It shouldn't price its hardware like one. It can aim higher if it wants, but the market will dictate whether those sights are misplaced.

"Never" is not totally true.

NES wasn't a premium piece of hardware, but NES games definitely were premium brands. Nintendo was obsessed with not repeating the problems that led to the market crash, which is why the Nintendo Seal of Quality is a thing.

As a budding product designer, this seems like the most comfortable compromise between portability, usability, and comfort.

To me, anything bigger is too cumbersome, anything smaller and the controllers are not very usable.

FYI, the outline is laid on top of a 6.2 inch in-car media system and the hand works as a reference of scale.

I'd move the buttons and sticks down toward the center a little so it's easier to hold these things sideways when detached.

Otherwise it's fine.

 

[Oregano]

The point would be to establish a brand. And to show off the capability of their silicon.

And just because products are on the market and being sold doesn't mean they make money.

Whilst the Shield devices act as an advertisement for Tegra if they were losing money they would have been dropped. Nvidia cancelled the new Shield Tablet due to business reasons so they clearly care about having viable products.

 

[Roto Prime]

Iiiii don't think so. Even in 3DS's overpriced early days it didn't have much problem matching early DS. DS didn't become the DS monster we now know it is until a ways after launch. I think it's also a stretch to suggest that improved PR from better sales due to a lower early price would make the thing have sold tens of millions more lifetime, if that's what you're suggesting.

Bro do you remember what happen with the 3DS, they where going to price it right, then we all where stupid, got excited about it and Nintendo thought they could charge us more for it....The Nintendo Tablet sounds like it will cost money, but I don't know, just guessing from what I have read.

 

[tr1p1ex]

They might have changed their mind along the way as this was from January 2013, but the original pitch of Shield was not to sell at a loss.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=507313

Pitches never start with we're going to lose money. I don't know exactly what Nvidia is making on the Shield off the top of my head, but I would not be surprised if they are making no money on it. That's just general experience talking. Because if they were making money hand over fist on the Shield you would have heard about it.

Hell look at Nintendo has made no money for 5 years. MS has, if i remember correctly, not made a dime overall in the console business since they entered in 2001.

 

[KingSnake]

Hell look at Nintendo has made no money for 5 years.

How the hell Nintendo didn't make money in those 5 years when they include in the hardware prices these:

Customer Support. Retail Support. Warranty and warranty support. OS design. kid-proof design. Global market design. The fact they are selling from Japan. Advertising!!!!!

and they still:

Nintendo sells their hardware at a profit. They aren't Sony.

How can this happen? I'm baffled. Must be the much cheaper games.

Edit: maybe they forgot to include the actual BoM for the hardware in the price on top of all those costs? Lol.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Except Nintendo prices hardware so they make money on it up front. And they specifically said they are going to make a profit on the NX day one.

Nvidia is probably selling at a loss btw.

Please source that, because that would make absolutely no sense. This would mean they are losing money with every Shield sold, with no way to actually make any money from those devices.

Nintendo sold the Wii U at a loss initially, so it's not like they've never done it. Regardless, the point of all of this is that Nvidia is selling a product at $200 and making a large amount of profit from each sale (if you can prove me wrong please do so), and Nintendo is making a similarly specced product with a few cheap additions (and subtractions) and therefore they can likely sell this product for the same price, even if that means they make less of a profit per unit sold.

I'm certainly not convinced it will be sold for $200, but I think it would be a doable price and a very successful price, much moreso than $250 or higher.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Pitches never start with we're going to lose money. I don't what Nvidia is making on the Shield off the top of my head, but I would not be surprised if they are making no money on it.

Hell look at Nintendo has made no money for 5 years. MS has, if i remember correctly, not made a dime overall in the console business since they entered in 2001.

OK, but there's a difference between "we had a plan to make money that didn't pan out" versus "we had a plan to lose money on hardware but make it back on ??????" nVidia is a hardware company. They used Android, not some proprietary OS with their own marketplace, so it's not like they were going to make a killing on app sales. It makes sense in the console business to sell at a loss hoping to make it back with first party software sales and third party licensing. But nVidia's Shield has none of those upsides.

 

[Doctre81]

Video proof it's a Wii U gamepad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF9aaYSdPJs

I know it was a gamepad...i said that is not the same gamepad we have. And it's not.

 

[linkandzelda]

we all know if Nintendo made it $170 day one, that thing would have sold just as much as the DS,

No we don't. It would have sold more than it did but I don't think it would have came close to meeting the DS. Mobile Phones just cut too much into that market.

 

[th3sicknness]

Everything in the shield product line right now sells for 199.99 (Shield Tv, Shield Portable, Shield Tablet).

Shield TV comes in 16 gigs
Shield Tablet comes without a charger, stylus, or controller.. and is standard with 16 gigs
Shield Portable comes with 16 gigs and a 5-inch HD display (720p)

The NX wont sell for less than what anything in the shield line goes for imo.

The 3ds price issue at launch wasn't really about it being overpriced at the time. The product itself wasn't a quality product overall.. Small screen and pretty bad graphics with the 3d gimmick. The Vita which came out in the Fall of the the same year made the 3ds feel so outdated.

The NX can be priced at 250 to 300 ONLY if the device itself is a quality device, has quality software at launch, and is a good concept. If you can give me a portable with better graphics than a Wii U I think alot of people would be interested because that hasnt been done before in that type of form factor with great IP.. People are willing to pay more for less if the less is quality.. the iphone is an example of this.

 

[Oregano]

Also whilst Nintendo is aiming for a profit if the break even point is $210 dollars they'll sell at $199/200 and take that hit. It's not always an exact thing.

 

[tr1p1ex]

lol. I like how at least of you can't possibly believe that Nvidia is losing money on the Shield, but have no problem believing Nintendo hasn't made any money overall in 5 years despite all their software royalties.

 

[Oregano]

lol. I like how at least of you can't possibly believe that Nvidia is losing money on the Shield, but have no problem believing Nintendo hasn't made any money overall in 5 years despite all their software royalties.

Nintendo lost money because their products constantly came in under expectations and Nintendo adjusted accordingly(and still didn't sell their platforms at a loss).

 

[ASIS]

speaking of pricing. I wonder how Nintendo will price the games on the NX. they were barely getting by with $40, I don't think they can charge $60 on a regular basis. But they can't sell console games for $40 when the entire space has $60 as a standard.

 

[Dr. Buni]

speaking of pricing. I wonder how Nintendo will price the games on the NX. they were barely getting by with $40, I don't think they can charge $60 on a regular basis. But they can't sell console games for $40 when the entire space has &60 as a standard.

If rumors are right and it is a handheld first, games should cost $40, not $60.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

lol. I like how at least of you can't possibly believe that Nvidia is losing money on the Shield, but have no problem believing Nintendo hasn't made any money overall in 5 years despite all their software royalties.

I believe that with R&D costs and lackluster sales nVidia might be losing money on the Shield overall. However, it doesn't really make sense to me why they would sell it as a loss leader aiming to lose money per unit sold. Mind you, I'm not an expert business analyst. I might be missing something here. But I'd be curious to see you explain why nVidia would sell the Shield at a loss.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

What consoles got their price cut in less than a year from launch?

Starting from when I was paying enough attention to such things: PS1, N64, DC, GCN, Xbox, PS3, Wii U. For Nintendo, Wii was the big outlier.

 

[ASIS]

If rumors are right and it is a handheld first, games should cost $40, not $60.

There is no way in hell they are selling BotW for $40 though. That's simply insane.

 

[th3sicknness]

I believe that with R&D costs and lackluster sales nVidia might be losing money on the Shield overall. However, it doesn't really make sense to me why they would sell it as a loss leader aiming to lose money per unit sold. Mind you, I'm not an expert business analyst. I might be missing something here. But I'd be curious to see you explain why nVidia would sell the Shield at a loss.

Exactly.. Nvidia cant sell its hardware at a loss because they aren't like Apple or Nintendo.. Both Nintendo and Apple like to make money on hardware but they make even more money when the attachment rate for their app store / software is high as well. Apple makes a lot of money when apps are purchased .. Reggie stated that the Wii U was losing money on each unit sold until someone buys an additional piece of software with it.

Nvidia doesnt really have a store to bolster their hardware.. They are relying on people buying things through other marketplaces where they dont make margin.

 

[Sadist]

If rumors are right and it is a handheld first, games should cost $40, not $60.

Make it $ 50.

 

[KingSnake]

lol. I like how at least of you can't possibly believe that Nvidia is losing money on the Shield, but have no problem believing Nintendo hasn't made any money overall in 5 years despite all their software royalties.

I'm talking about something I know and followed over the years.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/2016_01.html

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2014/140507e.pdf
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2013/130424e.pdf

Notice the first years of 3ds and Wii U? Hopefully Nintendo learned something from that.

What are you talking about?

 

[Retrobox]

No we don't. It would have sold more than it did but I don't think it would have came close to meeting the DS. Mobile Phones just cut too much into that market.

I am still not convinced that phones actually compete with handhelds because phones don't have buttons. So there's only touch gaming there and nothing else.

 

[dtm808]

There is no way in hell they are selling BotW for $40 though. That's simply insane.

Variable pricing. 40$ - 60$

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I am still not convinced that phones actually compete with handhelds because phones don't have buttons. So there's only touch gaming there and nothing else.

Is this a serious post?

 

[TunaLover]

The last batch info from Emily made my hype to plumb, I went from 'can't wait to see NX reveal' to 'whatever' :/

 

[Retrobox]

Is this a serious post?

Yeah it is. I guess there's something obvious I'm missing?

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

The last batch info from Emily made my hype to plumb, I went from 'can't wait to see NX reveal' to 'whatever' :/

Games create hype for me, not hardware.
They go hand in hand though.

 

[Oddduck]

The last batch info from Emily made my hype to plumb, I went from 'can't wait to see NX reveal' to 'whatever' :/

She also believes that NX will have a solid lineup of first party software.

And that's all that really matters.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Everything in the shield product line right now sells for 199.99 (Shield Tv, Shield Portable, Shield Tablet).

Shield TV comes in 16 gigs
Shield Tablet comes without a charger, stylus, or controller.. and is standard with 16 gigs
Shield Portable comes with 16 gigs and a 5-inch HD display (720p)

The NX wont sell for less than what anything in the shield line goes for imo.

The 3ds price issue at launch wasn't really about it being overpriced at the time. The product itself wasn't a quality product overall.. Small screen and pretty bad graphics with the 3d gimmick. The Vita which came out in the Fall of the the same year made the 3ds feel so outdated.

The NX can be priced at 250 to 300 ONLY if the device itself is a quality device, has quality software at launch, and is a good concept. If you can give me a portable with better graphics than a Wii U I think alot of people would be interested because that hasnt been done before in that type of form factor with great IP.. People are willing to pay more for less if the less is quality.. the iphone is an example of this.

The 3DS and the Wii U both suffered from similar problems in regard to the launch price- they had exotic overpriced components which the mass market had no interest in: the low resolution, stereoscopic 3D screen and the proprietary streaming technology in the Wii U. They really couldn't afford to sell them for much less than they initially did, which was a very boneheaded decision, and based on what they've said recently it sounds like one which they won't repeat.

Nothing that we've heard about the NX seems like a similarly expensive and exotic component. Detachable controllers can't possibly be as expensive as a small stereoscopic screen. So that leads me to believe they've returned to their philosophy of not using brand new, untested features which they abandoned for the 3DS and Wii U. This indicates that they can choose a pretty aggressive price while still making a small profit, and the MCV article backs that up.

I honestly think the price for the NX has little to do with the build quality or the perceived quality of the product- it's a matter of how much it costs to make/box/ship and how much they believe they can reasonably charge while getting a successful install base.

Edit: I love how the 3D screen is called a "gimmick" when that term really refers to a cheap addition designed to draw in mass appeal. The 3D screen was in no way cheap, and that was one of the 3DS's problems- same with the Wii U's streaming "gimmick." Motion controls on the other hand are extremely cheap to implement, so they won't adversely affect the price of the device nearly as much.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Yeah it is. I guess there's something obvious I'm missing?

There are obviously some games that are better suited for traditional controllers -- particularly the sort of core titles we tend to love on this forum -- but phones are very technologically capable devices now that have a wide array of high-quality software on them. They may not be the first place you'd go for a Super Mario platformer or portable Mario Kart title, but to act like there isn't significant overlap there is just sticking one's head in the sand. I still think there's a place for the dedicated handheld gaming device and look forward to seeing what the NX offers, but to act like they are completely separate markets I think is basically just ignoring the last 8-9 years of the mobile marketplace.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Except Nintendo prices hardware so they make money on it up front. And they specifically said they are going to make a profit on the NX day one.

Nvidia is probably selling at a loss btw.

Why would a company sell a product at a loss?

Hint: it's because they can recoup losses with other things related to said product. In Nintendo case, that's controllers and games, which make the large part of the profits. In NVIDIA's case, the only thing they sell is the shield itself. There are no Nvidia games or Nvidia controllers to recoup on lost margins. The shield is absolutely, 100% not sold at a loss.

EDIT: oh there are actually Nvidia shield controllers. The more you know.gif

 

[AzaK]

Yes.

https://arcadegirl64.wordpress.com/2016/09/02/rumor-what-should-we-expect-from-the-final-nx-product/

Thanks and good to get a bit of an idea.

720p is NICE but no mention of an augmenting dock which will suck because it'll basically mean our games are upscaled to TV.

6" screen is great!

Region free is awesome (And well overdue)

No triggers would be shithouse and make it harder for people to port their games, effectively meaning they won't bother.

I'm not happy about USB2.0 that's so old and antiquated and 3.0 is backwards compatible.

14mm is fine for a gaming machine, although I wonder what the "iPhone" generation will think.

 

[TunaLover]

Games create hype for me, not hardware.
They go hand in hand though.

Cutting the camera and mic tells you they are aiming for a pretty bare-bones system.

 

[Oregano]

Why would a company sell a product at a loss?

Hint: it's because they can recoup losses with other things related to said product. In Nintendo case, that's controllers and games, which make the large part of the profits. In NVIDIA's case, the only thing they sell is the shield itself. There are no Nvidia games or Nvidia controllers to recoup on lost margins. The shield is absolutely, 100% not sold at a loss.

That's not true. They sell Shield Controllers.

Good controllers even.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Why would a company sell a product at a loss?

Hint: it's because they can recoup losses with other things related to said product. In Nintendo case, that's controllers and games, which make the large part of the profits. In NVIDIA's case, the only thing they sell is the shield itself. There are no Nvidia games or Nvidia controllers to recoup on lost margins. The shield is absolutely, 100% not sold at a loss.

There actually are nVidia controllers.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Cutting the camera and mic tells you they are aiming for a pretty bare-bones system.

I'd be very surprised if those weren't in the final product.

 

[Oddduck]

Cutting the camera and mic tells you they are aiming for a pretty bare-bones system.

I'd be very surprised if those weren't in the final product.

She said it wasn't built inside the portable device. She didn't say NX didn't have a camera and a microphone.

It's possible that the camera and microphone are part of a separate accessory that is still bundled with the system.

 

[Skittzo0413]

She said it wasn't built inside the portable device. She didn't say NX didn't have a camera and a microphone.

It's possible that the camera and microphone are part of a separate accessory that is still bundled with the system.

It's also still based mostly on the devkit so I would think they could add them to the final unit.

 

[Plinko]

Potential place for mic/camera:

The sensor bar.

Could easily combine all three for placement in front of or on top of TV.

 

[Sadist]

Yeah it is. I guess there's something obvious I'm missing?

Yes.

They compete with handhelds in regards to your free time and of course, necessity. Phones have become a necessity to carry around and they also play games which in turn decreases the need for a dedicated gaming machine. Why buy a portable gaming machine when you have your phone for short bursts of play?

 

[KingSnake]

Suddenly the camera is a very important component of a dedicated gaming device.

 

[Dystify]

I'm making a little summary of all known NX related rumors/facts right now.

Were there any games announced/ rumored besides these? If yes, it'd be nice if you can provide a link.

Officially announced:

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Just Dance 2017
Holiday 2017 Sonic Game
Dragon Quest X
Dragon Quest XI
(Pikmin 4)
Tank it!

I feel like there was at least one other indie who announced a game for NX already. Can't find it anymore though.

Rumored Games:

A Mario game
A Pokémon game
A Super Smash Bros. game

Beyond Good and Evil 2
Retro Studios is not working on Metroid, DKC or Diddy Kong Racing, likely new IP

Anybody have a link for these? I know it was Emily Rogers who said it:
Splatoon
Super Mario Maker

Are there any games I missed? Thanks a lot!

 

[blu]

Suddenly the camera is a very important component of a dedicated gaming device.

Not exactly suddenly - nintendo last two HHs and their last home console had cameras.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Why would a company sell a product at a loss?

Hint: it's because they can recoup losses with other things related to said product. In Nintendo case, that's controllers and games, which make the large part of the profits. In NVIDIA's case, the only thing they sell is the shield itself. There are no Nvidia games or Nvidia controllers to recoup on lost margins. The shield is absolutely, 100% not sold at a loss.

EDIT: oh there are actually Nvidia shield controllers. The more you know.gif

lolol.

Now I know that as long as you can't recoup your costs with other related things then you automatically are making money on your product. Damned how many you sell and at what rate you sell them at etc etc etc.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Not exactly suddenly - nintendo last two HHs and their last home console had cameras.

Not to mention the majority of their recent patents being focused on some sort of image sensor provided on the controller/device.

lolol.

Now I know that as long as you can't recoup your costs with other related things then you automatically are making money on your product. Damned how many you sell and at what rate you sell them at etc etc etc.

What???

You're the one who claimed they are selling the Shield at a loss... no matter how many you sell, if you sell them at a loss and don't make any money from purchases tied to that hardware then you are, by definition, only losing money. I don't understand your argument here...

 

[MoonFrog]

I'm making a little summary of all known NX related rumors/facts right now.

Were there any games announced/ rumored besides these? If yes, it'd be nice if you can provide a link.

Officially announced:

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Just Dance 2017
Holiday 2017 Sonic Game
Dragon Quest X
Dragon Quest XI
(Pikmin 4)
Tank it!

I feel like there was at least one other indie who announced a game for NX already. Can't find it anymore though.

Rumored Games:

A Mario game
A Pokémon game
A Super Smash Bros. game

Beyond Good and Evil 2
Retro Studios is not working on Metroid, DKC or Diddy Kong Racing, likely new IP

Anybody have a link for these? I know it was Emily Rogers who said it:
Splatoon
Super Mario Maker

Are there any games I missed? Thanks a lot!

They suggested maybe FFXIV among all the DQ stuff iirc. Like a day after the DQ event or something before they walked it all back and so way before reconfirmation.

 

[KingSnake]

Not exactly suddenly - nintendo last two HHs and their last home console had cameras.

And the only relevant (to this day) utilisation of it is the 3d in the New 3ds. The rest is fluff that doesn't make or break a dedicated gaming device.

Not to mention the majority of their recent patents being focused on some sort of image sensor provided on the controller/device.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like any of the recent patent has made its way into NX. Maybe some unpublished yet.