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[LegendofLex]

How much is NIntendo selling the Wii U for today and how much is Nintendo selling the 3ds XL for today? And what is the NX supposed to be and how much of an upgrade is it over those products? That's a decent guide to what the NX will be priced at.

This doesn't matter. What matters is how much people are willing to pay for whatever NX is.

Nintendo isn't going to use either 3DS or Wii U as a yardstick for the NX price, since both products were underwhelming.

It didn't matter that Wii U was way more powerful than Wii. That didn't make it worth $300, much less $350.

 

[Okami Haundo]

"Buy our new portable it is going to be better than the 3ds."

We dont actually know if this is going to be a hybrid.. what we do know is it could be a full fledged portable..

I'm taking yesterday's Direct as Nintendo's statement on the 3DS being their lead "portable" system. I can't see why they would continue to support 3DS in the way they've announced if NX was meant to deliver a similar experience.

Based on the information we know I'm willing to bet that they lean heavily on NX being a "portable" console. Something that you can easily take over to a friends and have cool experiences with, but not intended to be used as a portable replacement.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Because both Wii U and 3ds were expensive to produce and there is no reason to drop the price for Wii U and for 3ds yet (I'm sure it will discounted latest at NX launch). Nintendo said a number of times that they learned their lesson. There is nothing in what we know until now about NX that should drive the price up too much.

All the Nvidia Shield products launched at around $200 and there is nothing in NX that points to a more expensive product than that.

Nintendo always says that stuff. It doesn't mean anything. They've been saying for a decade or more than that they have to do better with software droughts.

I wouldn't compare the NX to the Shield at all. To me it feels like a comparison between an iPhone and a cheap knockoff iPhone and then concluding the next iPhone will be $200 too.

 

[AGoodODST]

Regarding price, wasn't there talk of Nintendo getting a really good deal with Nvidia? That could help factor into a lower cost for the consumer.

 

[LegendofLex]

I'm taking yesterday's Direct as Nintendo's statement on the 3DS being their lead "portable" system. I can't see why they would continue to support 3DS in the way they've announced if NX was meant to deliver a similar experience.

Because 3DS has a large install base and NX has no install base, maybe?

Besides, the "support they've announced" is pretty much exactly like what DS continued to get after 3DS came out, and 3DS was billed as a direct successor to DS.

 

[KingSnake]

Think of it in the scope of a tablet or phone.. What modern high quality tablet or phone is actually less than 300 bux.

Very high margins. You should check the estimated production costs, not selling prices.

Nintendo always says that stuff. It doesn't mean anything really. They've been saying for a decade or more than that they have to do better with software droughts.

I wouldn't compare the NX to the Shield at all.

Why? Shield is actually the closest product in terms of components.

 

[majik13]

Meaning? They've never, ever done that. Just saying "It's Nintendo" is fucking meaningless, it's just a shit justification for needless pessimism.

Not necessarily a new game but Xenoblade released on new HW(New3DS) and looked worse than the original on wii. And they just announced a few new 3DS ports that look worse the original as well.
Not saying its going to happen, but their word choice of 'different visuals' has always made me a little pessimistic. I am hoping it is not the case though.

Edit: Geez these threads are fast. Sounds like that comment was a mistranslation or misrepresentation by a reporter.

 

[tr1p1ex]

This doesn't matter. What matters is how much people are willing to pay for whatever NX is.

Nintendo isn't going to use either 3DS or Wii U as a yardstick for the NX price, since both products were underwhelming.

But that wasn't the point. The point was to give you an idea of how (much) Nintendo sells their systems for given what tech is in them.

 

[th3sicknness]

You didn't refute anything I said in that post. Merely "Wii U is this, therefore NX must be this." That doesn't always apply.

This means nothing. Look at the internals and what is actually involved in production.

How does it not mean anything? Most the rumors indicated that the NX is going to essentially be similar to a Nvidia Shield tablet.. If you take into account that the newest shield tablet is 200 bux with no charger and stylus in box you can ballpark what the NX wont cost...

Assuming the NX uses the newest Tegra processor (Parker) and has additional items like detachable controllers or possibly a dock and or a charger it isnt outside the realm of possibility it will cost over the 200 dollars..

The Wii U controller was 150 bux to replace and it didnt have a CPU / GPU / Storage / WIFI / 720p

If you look at the tear downs of the iphone they estimated cost for them is 150 to 190 dollars to produce and that doesnt include the cost of R&D that needs to be recovered.

 

[Doctre81]

it's just the regular wii u gamepad. there was a thread about it whenever that image was shown.

No it isn't. It's thinner and doesn't even appear to have a camera.

 

[Okami Haundo]

Because 3DS has a large install base and NX has no install base, maybe?

I don't think it will be that simple, though I could be proven wrong. I elaborated on what I think NX will work like in the second half of my post.

 

[KingSnake]

I'm taking yesterday's Direct as Nintendo's statement on the 3DS being their lead "portable" system.

Better check again that 2017 line-up. That's not a line-up for a lead system.

 

[LegendofLex]

But that wasn't the point. The point was to give you an idea of how Nintendo sells their systems for given what tech is in them.

Price-to-tech doesn't map quite the way you're thinking it does.

I don't think it will be that simple, though I could be proven wrong. I elaborated on what I think NX will work like in the second half of my post.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-wont-abandon-wii-u-and-3ds-after-nx-launc/1100-6428604/

NX is a new platform, so the installed base will have to be built up from zero. When NX is launched, there already will be a certain volume of Nintendo 3DS and Wii U hardware widely existing in the market, so from a software business perspective, it would be highly inefficient to stop releasing titles for Nintendo 3DS or Wii U right after the launch of NX.

 

[ShadowFox08]

Because both Wii U and 3ds were expensive to produce and there is no reason to drop the price for Wii U and for 3ds yet (I'm sure it will discounted latest at NX launch). Nintendo said a number of times that they learned their lesson. There is nothing in what we know until now about NX that should drive the price up too much.

All the Nvidia Shield products launched at around $200 and there is nothing in NX that points to a more expensive product than that.

This is a more powerful product, and there is also a Nintendo technology included. I wouldn't be surprised if it sells for $250.

 

[KingSnake]

This is a more powerful product, and there is also a Nintendo technology included. I wouldn't be surprised if it sells for $250.

Assuming the NX uses the newest Tegra processor (Parker) and has additional items like detachable controllers or possibly a dock and or a charger it isnt outside the realm of possibility it will cost over the 200 dollars..

Chips cost less if they are produced in a bigger quantity. Nvidia is selling to Nintendo the design, Nintendo is producing the chips with their suppliers. Now check how much Shield table or Shield TV has sold and estimate how many times more NX will sell even under a pessimistic forecast. The cost per chip will be significantly lower for Nintendo.

 

[Deleted member 465307]

Better check again that 2017 line-up. That's not a line-up for a lead system.

I agree with your sentiment, but I wouldn't point to the 3DS's 2017 lineup, as known in Q3 2016, as indicative of what it will be. If nothing much changes in terms of announcements after Q1 2017 passes and especially E3 2017, then I think the assessment is valid. I just think it's too early to say (even if I think you'll end up being right).

To clarify: the above also applies to the poster you were responding to. September 2016 is too early to know what the 3DS will be like in 2017. Of course, if they'd already announced 15 games releasing next year, then I think we could assume 3DS is a lead platform. As it is, I think we don't know one way or the other.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Why? Shield is actually the closest product in terms of components.

IT is like comparing an iPhone to a cheap knockoff phone. And then declaring the next iPhone will be $xxx.xx.

 

[KingSnake]

IT is like comparing an iPhone to a cheap knockoff phone. And then declaring the next iPhone will be $xxx.xx.

Are you saying that Shield products are cheap knockoffs? Really?

 

[Skittzo0413]

Chips cost less if they are produced in a bigger quantity. Nvidia is selling to Nintendo the design, Nintendo is producing the chips with their suppliers. Now check how much Shield table or Shield TV has sold and estimate how many times more NX will sell even under a pessimistic forecast. The cost per chip will be significantly lower for Nintendo.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it also likely that the new 16nm process which will produce the (rumored) Pascal chips would actually be cheaper than the old 20nm process because A) more companies are phasing out of 20nm processing and B) smaller nodes means less material per chip?

Again, please correct me if this is just tales from my ass.

 

[phanphare]

No it isn't. It's thinner and doesn't even appear to have a camera.

do a thread search, it's just the normal gamepad

edit: found one

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=951175&highlight=new+gamepad

 

[Oregano]

In response to people who say "Nintendo said they'd change last gen too":

When you have a handheld that sold 150 million and a console that sold 100 million making you most profitable you've ever been you have a lot less pressure to change than when you have a handheld that's sold 60 million and a console that's sold 12 million and had sustained losses.

 

[KingSnake]

In response to people who say "Nintendo said they'd change last gen too":

When you have a handheld that sold 150 million and a console that sold 100 million making you most profitable you've ever been you have a lot less pressure to change than when you have a handheld that's sold 60 million and a console that's sold 12 million and had sustained losses.

And when you were forced to cut the price of your 2 previous systems in under a year from launch I surely hope you have the basic common sense to judge better your pricing policy next time.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Are you saying that Shield products are cheap knockoffs? Really?

Yeah when compared to Nintendo. You think the Shield is the Taj Mahal of video game products?

Another example of the comparison is a knock-off game controller compared to the real thing.

 

[Nanashrew]

No it isn't. It's thinner and doesn't even appear to have a camera.

Video proof it's a Wii U gamepad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF9aaYSdPJs

 

[Roto Prime]

$249.99 is not out of the realm of possibility.

Yeah, 3DS failed at that but Nintendo can repeat what they did with their consoles:

Include a PACK-IN GAME. *gasp*

It wouldn't even have to be a gimmick-based title like Wii Sports or Nintendo Land. It could be something that's traditional but sells the concept of the NX. It could even be a small collection of compatible legacy games; something that would be of little monetary investment from Nintendo.

It won't sell for $250 unless the dock gives it a boost, look at the 3DS, we all know if Nintendo made it $170 day one, that thing would have sold just as much as the DS, The Wii U should have been $250....PS4 was 400 and it was way more powerful then Wii U, people did not see the value, over price there systems again and I'm pretty sure history will repeat itself.

 

[KingSnake]

Yeah when compared to Nintendo.

You think Nintendo is a premium brand when it comes to the quality of the hardware they produce? This is not 2001 anymore.

 

[Retrobox]

It's not like Nintendo can't change their ways, especially with a new CEO.
Furthermore, they have mostly addressed the issues that plagued the Wii U and 3DS publicly. So assuming that nothing will change is definitely pessimism.

 

[Oregano]

And when you were forced to cut the price of your 2 previous systems in under a year from launch I surely hope you have the basic common sense to judge better your pricing policy next time.

Yup, exactly.

Yeah when compared to Nintendo. You think the Shield is the Taj Mahal of video game products?

Another example of the comparison is a knock-off game controller compared to the real thing.

Wow, the Shield Tablet is a solid bit of kit. Not as good as Nintendo's best but definitely not knock off quality.

 

[Okami Haundo]

Better check again that 2017 line-up. That's not a line-up for a lead system.

I should clarify that by "lead" I mean lead handheld. I'm sure the NX will be their main talking point, but I don't think Nintendo wants 3DS owners to think of it as a straight replacement at launch.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-wont-abandon-wii-u-and-3ds-after-nx-launc/1100-6428604/

I feel like I should clarify here. I'm not trying to say that I think the NX will be a home console and that the 3DS will live on forever. What I meant to say is that I think this shows that the NX leans more towards the home console side of things than the handheld side. Obviously we're pretty confident that it can do both at this point, but the 3DS news and reports of "pretty bad" battery life for NX paint a picture in my eyes. I personally believe that Nintendo won't talk NX up as something that you'll be playing on the train every day by itself.

 

[LegendofLex]

Are you saying that Shield products are cheap knockoffs? Really?

An Android machine or a streaming box for PC games is never going to have the prestige of a console with dedicated software support and hardware-software integration.

I feel like I should clarify here. I'm not trying to say that I think the NX will be a home console and that the 3DS will live on forever. What I meant to say is that I think this shows that the NX leans more towards the home console side of things than the handheld side. Obviously we're pretty confident that it can do both at this point, but the 3DS news and reports of "pretty bad" battery life for NX lead me to personally believe that Nintendo won't talk it up as something that you'll be playing on the train every day by itself.

The only thing Satoru Iwata has publicly stated about what NX is is this:

Though I cannot confirm when [NX] will be launched or any other details of the system, since I have confirmed that it will be "a dedicated video game platform with a brand new concept," it should mean that we do not intend it to become a simple "replacement" for Nintendo 3DS or Wii U.

Your question also included the "current notion of thinking about home consoles and handheld devices." When it comes to how dedicated game systems are being played, the situations have become rather different, especially between Japan and overseas. Since we are always thinking about how to create a new platform that will be accepted by as many people around the world as possible, we would like to offer to them "a dedicated video game platform with a brand new concept" by taking into consideration various factors, including the playing environments that differ by country. This is all that I can confirm today.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/150508qa/02.html

Statement from Iwata: NX's "brand-new concept" will consider the play environments that differ by country (Japan vs. overseas), and is the answer to the "current notion of thinking about home consoles and handheld devices."
Context: The way people primarily play games in Japan is on mobile/portable devices.

Only way Iwata's statement about the NX concept appealing to players around the world is true: if NX is viable as a mobile/portable device.

I can't imagine NX not being heavily billed as a portable if they have even the slightest hope that it will succeed at this, the only thing we've heard specifically about it to date.

The Shield isn't the hallmark of game consoles.

Your comparison to Nvidia is not taking into consideration so many other factors either. Customer Support. Retail Support. Warranty and warranty support. OS design. kid-proof design. Global market design. The fact they are selling from Japan. Advertising!!!!! Nvidia just strapped together common components.


Nintendo needs to price higher even if they came out with the same exact product.

I'm struggling to think of a successful Nintendo system that wasn't priced significantly cheaper than other devices in the category.

 

[tr1p1ex]

You think Nintendo is a premium brand when it comes to the quality of the hardware they produce? This is not 2001 anymore.

The Shield isn't the hallmark of game consoles.

Your comparison to Nvidia is not taking into consideration so many other factors either. Customer Support. Retail Support. Warranty and warranty support. OS design. kid-proof design. Global market design. The fact they are selling from Japan. Advertising!!!!! Nvidia just strapped together common components.


Nintendo needs to price higher even if they came out with the same exact product.

 

[KingSnake]

You think the Shield is the Taj Mahal of video game products?

Heh, I saw later this gem. Was this a later edit or my eyes refused to read it first time?

No, I don't think Shield is the best of the best, but I think they are decent products who are providing great quality for the price. I hope NX can match the build quality of the Shield tablet. Coming after 3ds and the Wii U Gamepad I'm not totally sure it will.

 

[th3sicknness]

Based on the rumors I dont see how this costs anything less than a 3ds xl (175-199)... Even when the original 3ds came out it was priced at 250.

I dont think people realize how good the shield portable was in terms of quality and options.. it went for 200 ish..

I would say that 200 is wishful for the NX.. I am expecting 300 based on the rumors. Nintendo needs to rebound here they arent going to sell things at paper thin margins

 

[Skittzo0413]

The Shield isn't the hallmark of game consoles.

Your comparison to Nvidia is not taking into consideration so many other factors either. Customer Support. Retail Support. Warranty and warranty support. OS design. kid-proof design. Global market design. The fact they are selling from Japan. Advertising!!!!! Nvidia just strapped together common components.


Nintendo needs to price higher even if they came out with the same exact product.

Actually it's the opposite. Nvidia only makes money on the initial sale of hardware, whereas Nintendo makes buttloads on software sold for each and every piece of hardware sold. Therefore Nvidia has to price their hardware much higher than the manufacturing cost in order to make any sort of profit, while Nintendo can afford to sell hardware at cost, though likely not at a loss, because even if they sell it without any initial profit, they get the majority of the profit from the software being sold and licensed.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

The Shield isn't the hallmark of game consoles.

Your comparison to Nvidia is not taking into consideration so many other factors either. Customer Support. Retail Support. Warranty and warranty support. OS design. kid-proof design. Global market design. The fact they are selling from Japan. Advertising!!!!! Nvidia just strapped together common components.


Nintendo needs to price higher even if they came out with the same exact product.

Yes. I agree that after the soaring successes that are the 3DS and in particular the Wii U, it absolutely makes sense for Nintendo to charge a Nintendo premium for their hardware. Just like Apple does. Because Nintendo is absolutely in Apple's position right now.

 

[KingSnake]

An Android machine or a streaming box for PC games is never going to have the prestige of a console with dedicated software support and hardware-software integration.

The Shield isn't the hallmark of game consoles.

Your comparison to Nvidia is not taking into consideration so many other factors either. Customer Support. Retail Support. Warranty and warranty support. OS design. kid-proof design. Global market design. The fact they are selling from Japan. Advertising!!!!! Nvidia just strapped together common components.


Nintendo needs to price higher even if they came out with the same exact product.

You're still living in a world in which Nintendo is a premium hardware manufacturer. I surely hope at least Nintendo is awake from this fantasy.

Their main income source is the software, which should cover also those costs. For that they need a big install base, so they need to get the hardware out at the cheapest price they can without taking a loss.

If NX is anywhere above $250 Nintendo will need a huge amount of luck. Even $250 is a stretch.

 

[Leona Lewis]

Based on the rumors I dont see how this costs anything less than a 3ds xl (175-199)... Even when the original 3ds came out it was priced at 250.

I would say that 200 is wishful for the NX.. I am expecting 300 based on the rumors.

If NX isn't $199, then Nintendo will have learned nothing.

They're going to have to eat some costs in the beginning if they want to build any sort of momentum, especially launching in the spring. They can't afford another round of slow adoption (a la 3DS) or no adoption (Wii U) because of high price.

 

[Clessidor]

Based on the rumors I dont see how this costs anything less than a 3ds xl (175-199)... Even when the original 3ds came out it was priced at 250.

I would say that 200 is wishful for the NX.. I am expecting 300 based on the rumors.

You shouldn't underestimate the low power level. If it will cost way more than 250 people will consider it overpiced based on what it offers.
Also 3DS was overpriced because Nintendo overestimated the enthusiasm for the 3DS.

 

[ryohumar]

I'm a bit skeptical of some of this information, but most of it seems logical. I'm not sure I'd put too much faith in region unlocking.

I can't seem to place whether Emily Rogers is to be believed or not; what does GAF think?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I am very curious what it means when she writes that the system is ahead of schedule.

I interpret it to mean they're very comfortable about that March date, without worries about further delay or rushing to make March happen.

And when you were forced to cut the price of your 2 previous systems in under a year from launch

Pretty sure that is more the norm than the exception. Though of course it is more enviable to be in the position of the exception where demand continues outpacing supply.

It won't sell for $250 unless the dock gives it a boost, look at the 3DS, we all know if Nintendo made it $170 day one, that thing would have sold just as much as the DS,

Iiiii don't think so. Even in 3DS's overpriced early days it didn't have much problem matching early DS. DS didn't become the DS monster we now know it is until a ways after launch. I think it's also a stretch to suggest that improved PR from better sales due to a lower early price would make the thing have sold tens of millions more lifetime, if that's what you're suggesting.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Actually it's the opposite. Nvidia only makes money on the initial sale of hardware, whereas Nintendo makes buttloads on software sold for each and every piece of hardware sold. Therefore Nvidia has to price their hardware much higher than the manufacturing cost in order to make any sort of profit, while Nintendo can afford to sell hardware at cost, though likely not at a loss.

Except Nintendo prices hardware so they make money on it up front. And they specifically said they are going to make a profit on the NX day one.

Nvidia is probably selling at a loss btw.

 

[Genio88]

To me the price will be 249$, just like original 3DS price launch, rumors are that it's gonna be cheaper than we think, also i think Nintendo really want to appeal to everybody so a low proce is essential for them, especially knowing that Xbox One and PS4 can already be found at less than 300$ even though they are more powerful devices.
That said to me 249$ is what will be, and i can see more likely a 200$ price rather than 300$

 

[LegendofLex]

You're still living in a world in which Nintendo is a premium hardware manufacturer. I surely hope at least Nintendo is awake from this fantasy.

Their main income source is the software, which should cover also those costs. For that they need a big install base, so they need to get the hardware out at the cheapest price they can without taking a loss.

If NX is anywhere above $250 Nintendo will need a huge amount of luck. Even $250 is a stretch.

You're using Nintendo's reputation as a first-party hardware platform provider vs. Nvidia's as the battleground for this discussion?

I don't see Nintendo's hardware as the source of their value. I see their software experiences as the source of their value. My advice to Nintendo would actually be to get their device as close to $150 or less as possible - ideally $100, but that's not realistic today. I'll accept a $200 price, and I think they might survive with something that's $250, but I don't think of Nintendo hardware as a "premium product," either.

I do, however, think of their ecosystem as worth waaaaay more than Shield's.

 

[Oregano]

Except Nintendo prices hardware so they make money on it up front. And they specifically said they are going to make a profit on the NX day one.

Nvidia is probably selling at a loss btw.

That makes no sense. There would literally be no point in the Shield line if that was the case.

 

[tr1p1ex]

You're still living in a world in which Nintendo is a premium hardware manufacturer. I surely hope at least Nintendo is awake from this fantasy.

Their main income source is the software, which should cover also those costs. For that they need a big install base, so they need to get the hardware out at the cheapest price they can without taking a loss.

If NX is anywhere above $250 Nintendo will need a huge amount of luck. Even $250 is a stretch.

Sorry Nintendo sells their hardware at a profit. They aren't Sony.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

If NX isn't $199, then Nintendo will have learned nothing.

Considering price relative to the times, that would put NX at about the same place GB, GBC, and GBA were for their launches. For something that seems to be aiming much higher, that seems hard for me to believe.

EDIT: On further investigation, it would put it at a similar place to original GB, but GBC and GBA would still be well cheaper.

 

[KingSnake]

You're using Nintendo's reputation as a first-party hardware platform provider vs. Nvidia's as the battleground for this discussion?

No, it wasn't me who brought this into the discussion. I just compared similar products, because NX should have a Tegra in it. I just answered at the ridiculousness of the idea that Nintendo can still charge a premium tax on their hardware given the history of the previous launches and what a deep wound those launches cut into Nintendo's finances.

Sorry Nintendo sells their hardware at a profit. They aren't Sony.

 

[Genio88]

Also do you remember what happened with 3DS?(i remember cause i bought it day one) it launched at 250$ and due to bad sales it dropped the price to 170$ after only 5 months...Really Nintendo doesn't want and can't afford something like that anymore, the regardless of the hardware it'll have i'm(personally of course) 99% sure they won't launch at a price higher than 250$

 

[tr1p1ex]

That makes no sense. There would literally be no point in the Shield line if that was the case.

The point would be to establish a brand. And to show off the capability of their silicon.

And just because products are on the market and being sold doesn't mean they make money.

 

[Leona Lewis]

Considering price relative to the times, that would put NX at about the same place GB, GBC, and GBA were for their launches. For something that seems to be aiming much higher, that seems hard for me to believe.

That's my point.

Nintendo will never occupy anything more than "toy" territory because it never attempted to be a premium brand. It shouldn't price its hardware like one. It can aim higher if it wants, but the market will dictate whether those sights are misplaced.

At the time GBA and DS came out, the cheapest iPod or similarly desirable device was 2 or 3 times the price. An iPod Touch today costs peanuts relative to its former price slot.

Nintendo isn't competing in the same sphere it did back in 2001 or 2004. It can't use those eras as a barometer for what to charge.