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Reports on Russian connections to Trump [Summaries in OP] #GoldenShowers

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T

tedrotheredro

Member
Meus Renaissance said:
Would they have published a report that President-elect Barack Obama was made aware of a dossier alleging he was actually born in Kenya, a dossier with no evidence? ​
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I think you're missing the meaningful nature of even bringing a dossier to the president. Since this is coming from a former MI6 agent familiar with Russian influence, it's a serious accusation, not Trump tweeting about Obama being born in Kenya. Therefore, a dossier about Kenyan birth would only be brought up if they had some reason to believe it were true, via reputable sources. And at that point it would be journalistic prudent to report it.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Meus Renaissance said:
Please explain the problem with the logic I shared in that summary.
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You compared the findings of an ex-MI-6 agent, with impeccable credentials from what we've seen, to an insane conspiracy theory from the far corners of the internet.

Also, all CNN reported was that the briefing happened. Not the details of it, that came from BuzzFeed. You're doing the same song-and-dance bullshit Conway was doing last night on AC360.
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/819607965292494849

3YkcQdL.jpg
 
A

Apharmd

Member
rokkerkory said:
How does Trump have a good argument? It was deemed important enough for it to make it to the POTUS and PEOTUS. You think the IC would bring just anything to them without heavy vetting? I don't think the IC would waste their time on this if it wasn't important enough like the birther stuff.
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Yeah, really. Obama was never on record saying that his citizenship is invalid.
 
Joel Was Right

Joel Was Right

Member
rokkerkory said:
How does Trump have a good argument? It was deemed important enough for it to make it to the POTUS and PEOTUS. You think the IC would bring just anything to them without heavy vetting? I don't think the IC would waste their time on this if it wasn't important enough like the birther stuff.
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There is no evidence to support the dossier. The only rationale explanation as to why they shared it is because it relates to the topic of Russian influence and made some remarkable accusations that were made public. Indeed, Clapper's statement emphasised this point; it was included because it was relevant and damaging, not because they suspected it to be true.

Whether they should have shared it with Trump or not is not the issue. The debate here is whether CNN is using flimsy argument to publish damaging claims to an incoming President, even if he is a horrible man.
 
P

Poor GRIMES

Banned
At this point I wouldn't even be surprised if Comey was also in cahoots with Trump and the Russians. His actions, or lack thereof, are inexcusable.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Meus Renaissance said:
There is no evidence to support the dossier. The only rationale explanation as to why they shared it is because it relates to the topic of Russian influence and made some remarkable accusations that were made public. Indeed, Clapper's statement emphasised this point; it was included because it was relevant and damaging, not because they suspected it to be true. This is not a man who privately believes his boss to be a Kremlin puppet.
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Again, you're doing exactly what Conway did: conflating CNN's (and everyone else's) reporting with BuzzFeed's. It was bullshit last night and it's still bullshit today.
 
B

BlazingDarkness

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
If it actually gets deep and there's evidence mounting, the GOP will have to act. It would destroy their party to not. They'd lose in 2018 by margins unheard of, and 2020 wouldn't even be a contest.
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The scary thing is, it probably wouldn't. It's clear a vast percentage of the American population give zero fucks about any of this, about any of the larger implications of all of this controversy, all they care about is giving the middle finger to authority and the long-standing (relative) political stability America has enjoyed until now.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Meus Renaissance said:
Would they have published a report that President-elect Barack Obama was made aware of a dossier alleging he was actually born in Kenya, a dossier with no evidence? ​

No.
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Has CNN interviewed Trump on air about his claims of Obama being born in Kenya - allegations made with no evidence?

Yes.

Were there official investigations into his Kenyan birth as a result of claims from credible sources?

If there were, that would be newsworthy.
 
rokkerkory

rokkerkory

Member
Meus Renaissance said:
There is no evidence to support the dossier. The only rationale explanation as to why they shared it is because it relates to the topic of Russian influence and made some remarkable accusations that were made public. Indeed, Clapper's statement emphasised this point; it was included because it was relevant and damaging, not because they suspected it to be true. This is not a man who privately believes his boss to be a Kremlin puppet.
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Maybe not concrete evidence yet, but that doesn't mean it's not important enough to make it to the office of the president. If you think everything that makes it through the IC to the president must have all the evidence first, you're doing your job wrong (IC).

I see you edited after I posted.

You are doing nothing but deflecting the real issue. This is not about CNN's reporting practice or any other press'. This is about serious allegations about the PEOTUS that warrants the highest level of attention.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
There is no evidence to support the dossier. The only rationale explanation as to why they shared it is because it relates to the topic of Russian influence and made some remarkable accusations that were made public. Indeed, Clapper's statement emphasised this point; it was included because it was relevant and damaging, not because they suspected it to be true. This is not a man who privately believes his boss to be a Kremlin puppet.
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No one is saying there is evidence, that's why it's always mentioned as unverified. The source is very reputable and that lends it a certain amount of credence, enough to be brought to the attention of POTUS and PEOTUS in a confidential intelligence briefing.
 
B

Big Nikus

Member
I'm getting more and more depressed, I'm now seeing terrible articles on (french) Facebook from people I thought had a brain, saying that everything that came from buzzfeed and CNN was a troll by 4chan and that all our big media outlets here in France are spreading fake news only.
Not lying, I feel absolutely down.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
No one is saying there is evidence, that's why it's always mentioned as unverified. The source is very reputable and that lends it a certain amount of credence, enough to be brought to the attention of POTUS and PEOTOS
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The primary source, as well as the sources he used are both considered credible. LIke you say, the trouble is in verifying the actual allegations.
 
E

EdibleKnife

Member
Big Nikus said:
I'm getting more and more depressed, I'm now seeing terrible articles on (french) Facebook from people I thought had a brain, saying that everything that came from buzzfeed and CNN was a troll by 4chan and that all our big media outlets here in France are spreading fake news only.
Not lying, I feel absolutely down.
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The documents have nothing to do with 4chan. The MI6 operative exists. People were briefed on the information on the weight of that operatives credibility.
 
smokeymicpot

smokeymicpot

Beat EviLore at pool.
So they have 8 days to get this done? Since Trump comes in office on the 20th and he will appoint new people or can they still finish it up while he is entering?
 
T

Tahnit

Banned
There is too much credibility to these reports. Something is going to come out of this. They didn't have the warrants but now they do. Justice dept is looking into Commey now.

Its happening fast and I think we may possibly be saved.
 
P

Permanently A

Junior Member
Big Nikus said:
I'm getting more and more depressed, I'm now seeing terrible articles on (french) Facebook from people I thought had a brain, saying that everything that came from buzzfeed and CNN was a troll by 4chan and that all our big media outlets here in France are spreading fake news only.
Not lying, I feel absolutely down.
Click to expand...

Yep. The 4chan misinformation machine is incredible.
 
D

digdug2k

Member
B-Dubs said:
Again, you're doing exactly what Conway did: conflating CNN's (and everyone else's) reporting with BuzzFeed's. It was bullshit last night and it's still bullshit today.
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Why are people so mad at BuzzFeed? I mean, I don't hold them to much of a standard for content, but their article, even their headline "These reports allege Trump has deep ties to Russia", it was all pretty clear that it was all unsubstantiated allegations. Are people really upset about that?

I've seen so much worse in the last year. Clickbait headlines (fuck, the Fucking AP!, a news organization that actually does care about "jornalistic integrity", had those during the election) that are designed to mislead and bring in clicks. I can't believe this one, one that's actually pretty factual and measured, actually upset the press.
 
T

Teggy

Member
Tahnit said:
There is too much credibility to these reports. Something is going to come out of this. They didn't have the warrants but now they do. Justice dept is looking into Commey now.

Its happening fast and I think we may possibly be saved.
Click to expand...

Don't hold your breath.
 
T

Tahnit

Banned
smokeymicpot said:
So they have 8 days to get this done? Since Trump comes in office on the 20th and he will appoint new people or can they still finish it up while he is entering?
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If he shuts it down he's basically admitting guilt.

I have a feeling after this meeting on Friday the innaguration is going to be delayed while this investigation is ongoing.
 
D

dynamitejim

Member
Meus Renaissance said:
Trump does have a good argument.
CNN's justification that they merely reported on that the Intelligence Community notified Trump of these allegations does raise questions about journalistic ethics. Editors at CNN knew that it would immediately cast aspersions of the President-elect unfairly because there was no proof. But the lack of evidence would do little to soften the impact and tarnish his name even further.

Would they have published a report that President-elect Barack Obama was made aware of a dossier alleging he was actually born in Kenya, a dossier with no evidence? ​

No.

What CNN did isn't much different than Fox News bringing on a guest who makes statements about Obama's religion based only on hearsay.
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Bull! The AP basically accused Hillary Clinton of using the Clinton Foundation as a pay-for-play slush fund with zero evidence.
 
W

Weiss

Banned
Tahnit said:
If he shuts it down he's basically admitting guilt.

I have a feeling after this meeting on Friday the innaguration is going to be delayed while this investigation is ongoing.
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I mean, they'd have to, right? You can't let a suspected traitor take office, can you?
 
R

rambis

Banned
Big Nikus said:
I'm getting more and more depressed, I'm now seeing terrible articles on (french) Facebook from people I thought had a brain, saying that everything that came from buzzfeed and CNN was a troll by 4chan and that all our big media outlets here in France are spreading fake news only.
Not lying, I feel absolutely down.
Click to expand...
I wouldnt be too upset. If theres actual tangible evidence then there's absolutely no way this dies.
 
S

Saint Gregory

Member
Teggy said:
Is this a person who is going to be replaced in a week? I'm kind of curious what Trump has the power to just shut down if the inauguration proceeds as scheduled.
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smokeymicpot said:
So they have 8 days to get this done? Since Trump comes in office on the 20th and he will appoint new people or can they still finish it up while he is entering?
Click to expand...
This isn't how the Federal Govt works. You have appointees and you have permanent workers. The appointees are generally in the highest positions but have very little power to remove permanent govt employees due to the protections that are in place for career gov't workers.

The OIG in each agency will be made up by career gov't officers and are independent of influence (or are supposed to be) from presidential appointments. Their entire role is to watchdog situstions like this one.
 
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