Support NeoGAF

[BronsonLee]

stuff

can it, nerd

 

[RustyNails]

Everything about the election is a sham, especially as my preference didn't win.
The point of the election is not to keep fascists from becoming president, it is simply to give eligible voters a vote each in order to choose their President.

Maybe the Democrats should have selected anyone BUT Hillary and Trump would have been consigned to the bin of irrelevancy. But some people feel its their right to be ordained?

Too much moaning.
The election is over.

This is too much bullshit with my early holiday morning tea.

 

[habithipster]

Getting rid of him will be nearly impossible. Dems now have to start preparing plans to fix everything day one at the end of his term, that's the sad truth.

http://www.businessinsider.com/stop-underestimating-trump-2017-1

Let's just hope we're talking terms and not decades.

 

[BowieZ]

Do you understand the concept of democracy?

The election process has spoken.

Here, read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-fascism

Neo-fascism is a post–World War II ideology that includes significant elements of fascism. Neo-fascism usually includes ultranationalism, populism, anti-immigration policies or, where relevant, nativism, anti-communism, anti-socialism, anti-Marxism, anti-anarchism and opposition to the parliamentary system and liberal democracy. Some post–World War II regimes have been described as neo-fascist due to their authoritarian nature, and sometimes due to their fascination and sympathy towards fascist ideology and rituals.

While Trump himself may not be aware of what the fuck he's doing, he's:


1 - capitalising on divisive sentiment fomented amongst uneducated middle and southern America (thanks to Murdoch's Fox News) for years, actively devaluing intellect ("liberal elite" etc), favoring demagoguery (accusations, vulgarity, lying, fear-mongering, etc.), and capitalising on an increasingly illiberal democracy (voting laws and regulations that make it harder for people to vote);

2 - spouting populist phrases ("drain the swamp") devoid of factualness and an earnest historical voting record, and often in direct contradiction to his own actions (appointing Exxon CEO, former Goldman Sachs executives, Giuliani, etc);

3 - flagrantly hostile to Constitutional personal liberties, characteristic of an authoritarian (having campaigned on torture, deportation, stop-and-frisk, changing libel laws, etc.) and generally ignorant of the Constitution;

4 - capitulating to the interests of foreign enemies (out of self-interest), enemies which threaten the world order (especially regarding Putin's designs on European gas pipelines, and the Palestinian two-state solution);

5 - marginalising traditional press (#fakenews, not admitting journalists into the White House) while cultivating self-serving fringe media channels (Twitter, Breitbart, Lifezette, OANN, and to a lesser extent Fox News);

6 - disrespecting the bipartisan conventions of the Presidency such as: not divesting business holdings into blind trust, insulting the Intelligence Community, insulting prominent figures who criticise him, insulting and threatening international leaders and institutions (Merkel, NATO, China), avoiding press conferences, using props at a press conference, negotiating with foreign governments before assuming office, and firing the DC National Guard at 12:01pm on Inauguration Day.


I'm probably forgetting a few other highly unusual behaviors, but I would take Bush's devastating Iraq War lie (thanks to profiteers Cheney & Rumsfeld) and general stupidity over this walking danger to the very fabric of modern Western society.

 

[RustyNails]

Bu Bu Bu the people have spoken!! democracy!!11

 

[rjinaz]

I read a good article on this...basically everyone who is disparaging this guy's chances for a full term/impeachment are making things worse. Fighting over the cabinet nominees or his Twitter outburts only prove he can manipulate the conversation away from what the real issue is - he's a loudmouth TV star that ensured he'll be famous forever, and that's all he really wanted. The rest is gravy. He's got enough machine around him to keep going for 8 years, weather scandals and deny any poor policy mistakes all along the way.

Damn near half the country voted him in, and they will overlook anything said or done that's inconsistent with their views because he's "not Obama".

Getting rid of him will be nearly impossible. Dems now have to start preparing plans to fix everything day one at the end of his term, that's the sad truth.


http://www.businessinsider.com/stop-underestimating-trump-2017-1

No. I don't think we can assume at this point that he is a reality tv star that wants to keep being famous. Everything he is doing points that he is a puppet of Russia, or at the very least, he will act in their best interest for his own reasons.

Not related to your post, but also, I will never shut up about Trump being president. This whole, he won get over it attitude is not something I will accept. It's true that likely nothing will be done and he will be president for the next 4 years at least, but Dems should make the presidency of a fascist and Russian puppet as miserable as they possibly can.

 

[jelly]

UK going down that tube too.

It's scary and yet the brakes haven't been put on yet.

 

[MUnited83]

Do you understand the concept of democracy?

The election process has spoken.

What democracy? The US isn't a democracy; the one with the most votes didn't win.

 

[More_Badass]

Here, read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-fascism




While Trump himself may not be aware of what the fuck he's doing, he's:


1 - capitalising on fascist sentiment fomented amongst uneducated middle and southern America (thanks to Murdoch's Fox News) for years, actively devaluing intelligence ("liberal elite" etc)

2 - spouting populist phrases ("drain the swamp") devoid of factualness, and often in direct contradiction to his own actions (appointing Exxon CEO, former Goldman Sachs executives, Giuliani, etc)

3 - capitulating to the interests of foreign enemies (out of self-interest), enemies which threaten the world order (especially regarding Putin's designs on European gas pipelines, and the Palestinian two-state solution)

4 - marginalising traditional press (#fakenews, not admitting them into the White House) while cultivating self-serving fringe media channels (Twitter, Breitbart, Lifezette, OANN, and to a lesser extent Fox News)

5 - disrespecting the bipartisan conventions of the President such as: not divesting business holdings into blind trust, insulting the Intelligence Community, insulting prominent figures who criticise him, insulting foreign leaders, avoiding press conferences, using props at a press conference, negotiating with foreign governments before assuming office, and firing the DC National Guard at 12:01pm on Inauguration Day.


I'm probably forgetting a few other highly unusual behaviors, but I would take Bush's devastating Iraq War lie (thanks to profiteers Cheney & Rumsfeld) and general stupidity over this walking danger to the very fabric of modern Western society.

When you lay it all out like that, it's absolutely fucking terrifying. SNL and whatnot making him a joke seems less funny now, if that's the biggest reaction the public is having toward all this

 

[Gutek]

Here, read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-fascism




While Trump himself may not be aware of what the fuck he's doing, he's:


1 - capitalising on fascist sentiment fomented amongst uneducated middle and southern America (thanks to Murdoch's Fox News) for years, actively devaluing intelligence ("liberal elite" etc), and capitalising on an increasingly illiberal democracy (voting laws and regulations that make it harder for people to vote);

2 - spouting populist phrases ("drain the swamp") devoid of factualness, and often in direct contradiction to his own actions (appointing Exxon CEO, former Goldman Sachs executives, Giuliani, etc);

3 - capitulating to the interests of foreign enemies (out of self-interest), enemies which threaten the world order (especially regarding Putin's designs on European gas pipelines, and the Palestinian two-state solution);

4 - marginalising traditional press (#fakenews, not admitting them into the White House) while cultivating self-serving fringe media channels (Twitter, Breitbart, Lifezette, OANN, and to a lesser extent Fox News);

5 - disrespecting the bipartisan conventions of the President such as: not divesting business holdings into blind trust, insulting the Intelligence Community, insulting prominent figures who criticise him, insulting foreign leaders, avoiding press conferences, using props at a press conference, negotiating with foreign governments before assuming office, and firing the DC National Guard at 12:01pm on Inauguration Day.


I'm probably forgetting a few other highly unusual behaviors, but I would take Bush's devastating Iraq War lie (thanks to profiteers Cheney & Rumsfeld) and general stupidity over this walking danger to the very fabric of modern Western society.

Don't forget that he has straight up campaigned on anti-constitutional rhetoric. Stop & frisk, killing innocents, "libel laws", etc.

 

[Kyzer]

just realized every political thread for the next 4 years will devolve into a general argument against having Trump as president

 

[BowieZ]

When you lay it all out like that, it's absolutely fucking terrifying. SNL and whatnot making him a joke seems less funny now, if that's biggest reaction the public is having toward all this

Don't forget that he has straight up campaigned on anti-constitutional rhetoric. Stop & frisk, killing innocents, "libel laws", etc.

Can someone smarter than me edit and append what I wrote? I, or they, should then make a separate thread out of it. I think the seriousness of this issue needs to be discussed separately.

 

[Gutek]

just realized every political thread for the next 4 years will devolve into a general argument against having Trump as president

Trump needs to go. He is a legitimate threat to western democracies and our way of life.

 

[rjinaz]

just realized every political thread for the next 4 years will devolve into a general argument against having Trump as president

Well this thread is actually about Trump so maybe save your realization for one that isn't?

 

[RustyNails]

When you lay it all out like that, it's absolutely fucking terrifying. SNL and whatnot making him a joke seems less funny now, if that's the biggest reaction the public is having toward all this

SNL is more than just that. They are trying to scream how fascist and unqualified Trump is through their skits. They cant just come out and say Trump is a fucking dictator what the fuck America. We have Bill Mahers of the world for that. SNL says the same thing through comedy.

 

[Kyzer]

Well this thread is actually about Trump so maybe save your realization for one that isn't?

ok? unlike the future political threads which will also be about trump? im not even arguing against it, just making an observation

 

[rjinaz]

ok? unlike the future political threads which will also be about trump? im not even arguing against it, just making an observation

It will probably will, and frankly it should, unless it's completely off topic. Until Trump actually starts acting like a President of the free world and not whatever the hell he is currently doing. A mix between man baby and Russian puppet.

 

[Gutek]

Then vote him out at the next election.

Sometimes, I feel like am on a right-wing thread reading the comments on here.
Its almost like 2 chicks of the same ass.

I remember people saying this after Obama was elected too.

I don't remember NATO allies being anxious over the future of NATO when Obama was elected. But you do you.

 

[The Boat]

This notion that the democratic process is flawless and should be followed without question is backwards thinking as hell. Countries can't just coast along, sometimes some people need to step up and change shit otherwise we might as well stay stuck forever.

 

[rjinaz]

Then vote him out at the next election.

Sometimes, I feel like am on a right-wing thread reading the comments on here.
Its almost like 2 chicks of the same ass.

I remember people saying this after Obama was elected too.

Right it's exactly the same thing. Except people wanted Obama gone because he was Black, or the antichrist, or a libtard or a socialist, or a Muslim.

The reasons people might want Trump gone are legitimate and keep piling up. This very thread just as an example and his general love for all things Russia. His behavior on twitter and him already attacking the free press and promoting garbage websites that idolize him. Sexual assault accusations following him and legal issue still on the horizon. His lack of regard for foreign relations.

But sure, same exact thing.

 

[BowieZ]

Right it's exactly the same thing. Except people wanted Obama gone because he was Black, or the antichrist, or a libtard or a socialist.

The reasons people might want Trump gone are legitimate and keep piling up. This very thread just as an example and his general love for all things Russia. His behavior on twitter and him already attacking the free press and promoting garbage websites that idolize him. Sexual assault accusations following him and legal issue still on the horizon.

But sure, same exact thing.

I'd post a link to an article about false equivalency next, but sometimes people are not interested in actually listening to facts, figures and rational argument posited by others, as much as they want to voice quaint "feelings" and memories.

 

[rjinaz]

NATO is entitled to be anxious, US citizens are entitled to vote their president.

Next you'd be moaning about external influence on the election process...

And American citizens are entitled to voice their discontent with their president. It's not a dictatorship, yet. We are not required to shut up because this is what people voted for.

 

[RustyNails]

NATO is entitled to be anxious, US citizens are entitled to vote their president.

Next you'd be moaning about external influence on the election process...

Why shouldnt we moan about external influence? It seems like you have decided that Bernie was robbed and could have won. You are arguing from that viewpoint rather than understanding what happened during the election, and ignoring the trove of data that said external agencies did influence the election. You've already made up your mind.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Everything about the election is a sham, especially as my preference didn't win.
The point of the election is not to keep fascists from becoming president, it is simply to give eligible voters a vote each in order to choose their President.

Maybe the Democrats should have selected anyone BUT Hillary and Trump would have been consigned to the bin of irrelevancy. But some people feel its their right to be ordained?

Too much moaning.
The election is over.

Preference? Heh, that's a laugh. I love how people like you don't understand that this is life and death for some people.

My choice was simple, one was going to ensure that I was insured medically, that my rights won't be harmed and might even get them up to equal standard, and ensured that my existence is valid. The other one didn't, at all, and in fact is going to likely kill me by the end of these 4 years because I'm unemployed, an easily targeted minority, and have medical conditions that can kill.

As for the election, it was a sham. One side got confronted with bullshit from the other party, their own party, the FBI, Russia, and a ratings hungry media. The victor won despite having less than 3 million votes than his competitor, and only won by an archaic system placed back in the 1700s by men who had no idea what the modern landscape would be and furthermore was design to give power to slavers and landowners. At least that system was also designed to go against the people's wishes in case the people voted for an inexperienced demagogue. Except, for once in its miserable existence, an actual inexperienced demagogue was voted in by the people, and yet, it failed to do it's job, rendering the entire system completely useless and demonstrating that it needs to go.

But please, keep talking about how I should stop moaning about it and get over it as I witness my family, who are victims of a fascist state, packing up their things in fear and leaving their home since the 80s. Say "move on" as I continue to witness countless people cry at night in fear of the coming disaster that threatens to kill there civil rights, as I witness transgender people such as myself lose hope and even a couple killing themselves.

No, I'm going to keep moaning about it, I'm going to keep calling him illegitimate, and I'm refusing to even treat that man with an ounce of respect regardless if he's the president of the country I live in. At the same time, I'm going to continue volunteering with civil rights advocacy groups and the democrats for the next four years, because I refuse to be silent on this matter.

Then vote him out at the next election.

Sometimes, I feel like am on a right-wing thread reading the comments on here.
Its almost like 2 chicks of the same ass.

I remember people saying this after Obama was elected too.

The difference between Obama and Trump is that Obama is a central American politician, average really, while Trump is a white authoritarian ultra-nationalist, a fascist. I'd taken Pence, Rubio, and even Ted Cruz over someone who's clearly a Russian puppet and a fascist. The issue isn't that a Republican won the election, not for me. The issue is that the next president, who is under clear foreign influence and extremely corrupt, threatens the very values of what our nation stands for and our very constitution. He needs to go ASAP.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Do you understand the concept of democracy?

The election process has spoken.

Explain to us what a democracy is please.

 

[Mr. X]

Then vote him out at the next election.

Sometimes, I feel like am on a right-wing thread reading the comments on here.
Its almost like 2 chicks of the same ass.

I remember people saying this after Obama was elected too.

Information is no longer persuasive, it's the enemy of our electorate. When Trump sends us into a deep recession, destroys health care by making it unaffordable, he'll use twitter and his news stations to tell it like it is and blame Dems, minorities, illegal immigrants or China.

 

[Byakuya769]

That's actually a fucking awful tack to take on here

Agreed. "You're making it worse, just stop fighting and make plans for when your turn comes up in 8 years." Ridiculous.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Then vote him out at the next election.

Sometimes, I feel like am on a right-wing thread reading the comments on here.
Its almost like 2 chicks of the same ass.

I remember people saying this after Obama was elected too.

You can't compare it. Have you seen the reaction of basically the whole world - except Russia? The world would have had no problem with pretty much any Republican. Romney, Rubio, even Cruz or Pence would have been fine. Everyone has a problem with Trump. And for good reason.

NATO is entitled to be anxious, US citizens are entitled to vote their president.

Next you'd be moaning about external influence on the election process...

How is external influence not worth moaning about? A countries election should not be influenced by outside actors to come to their desired outcome.

 

[MUnited83]

Then vote him out at the next election.

Sometimes, I feel like am on a right-wing thread reading the comments on here.
Its almost like 2 chicks of the same ass.

I remember people saying this after Obama was elected too.

Do you fucking understand the shit he is going to pull? The motherfucker needs to be impeached. And if America had a lick of sense , they would impeach him.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Then vote him out at the next election.

Sometimes, I feel like am on a right-wing thread reading the comments on here.
Its almost like 2 chicks of the same ass.

I remember people saying this after Obama was elected too.

They did say that, yes, but they were wrong, and we are not. This is, in my mind, still kind of an important distinction.

Crazy, I know.

By going "well, the other guys said this too" you are surrendering control of the key point here which is that reality matters. Facts matter. Trump IS in violation of the Constitution and he SHOULD be impeached day 0 and letting Republicans get away with deligitimizing the whole process is not something I'm okay with.

 

[Damerman]

Information is no longer persuasive, it's the enemy of our electorate. When Trump sends us into a deep recession, destroys health care by making it unaffordable, he'll use twitter and his news stations to tell it like it is and blame Dems, minorities, illegal immigrants or China.

Exactly.... and it wont be hard to predict where we go from there.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

EXACTLY!!!
The sooner the DNC go back to the drawing board and stop moaning the better for the country.

The DNC is moving forward. They're selecting a new chairperson and deciding on the future platform of the party.

Let's be honest, you don't actually care about what the DNC does, you just want everyone else to stop talking about this. Your whining isn't going to work.

 

[rjinaz]

I'd post a link to an article about false equivalency next, but sometimes people are not interested in actually listening to facts, figures and rational argument posited by others, as much as they want to voice quaint "feelings" and memories.

Exactly. Oh and I forgot "he's not a US citizen". The thing that Trump himself spearheaded. And now he gets pissed when somebody says HE is not a legitimate president. What goes around comes around Trump.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Do you fucking understand the shit he is going to pull? The motherfucker needs to be impeached. And if America had a lick of sense , they would impeach him.

Yeah letting him get away with possibly colluding with a hostile government through illegal means will be the end of democracy in this country. You either get escalation where the election becomes a proxy Ames for countries hoping to get their agents in charge or you get the point where one side has help through illegal means to oppress the opposition.

Between the outside influence, and voter suppression Trump is, in my eyes, absolutely illegitimate. We need to fight him on every front, every day and never let him have an easy day. He is going to irreparably damage the lives to tens of millions of Americans and represents a threat to global security and stability. If now is not the time to fight like hell, then there never will be.

 

[Kyzer]

I kinda agree... its like this. I thought this board, speaking in generalities of course, was very discerning and logical, and thats why there were so many nuances to supporting Hillary Clinton and debunking all the myths and fake news about her propagated by the other end of the political spectrum. I suspect if this report were some sort of scandalous equivalent about her, we would be much more rational and skeptical, probably going so far as to question the motives of the intelligence community (emails) before accepting unsubstantiated claims that would rock american history for decades. Meanwhile, when its about Trump, people are already connecting dots between his affection for Russia and this dossier as if its solid evidence because of confirmation bias (we hate Trump, other than that there is no reason other than speculation to believe the explosive allegations in this dossier are actually true), and rationalizing putting him in jail, impeaching, and stopping the inauguration. Even though one of the only things we know is that we don't know what pieces of these claims were deemed worth investigating, much less if ANY of it is true. The willingness to believe these shocking, explosive accusations about Trump is absolutely unfounded, even if you hate him, because its so damn out there it DEMANDS evidence. And no, sorry, Trumps obvious connections to Russia do not objectively support this level of treason. We should be down-to-earth and analytical, not impulsively reactionary.... The same way it would be for Hillary. Its just kinda disappointing that I thought we were this huge group of thinkers and realists, but it turns out when its about a republican we don't apply the same approach. Anyways, im sure someone will argue against this post pretty well, and it will turn out to be someone who I probably agree with on 99-100% of issues, but alas those people are not the ones Im talking about

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Two Questions:

• Did you participate the system you are now calling archaic? If so, did you read the small print? (your vote is your signature on the dotted line..IMHO!)
• Would you have complained if the results of the count were reversed and favoured Hillary?

I did, I also voted with the mind that the electoral college will vote for what's best for the country, not with what the people in their states voted for, as is their purpose. Again, one of their purposes was to insure that a demagogue as voted in by the people can never reach power. Read the Federalist Papers.

Second, it would never happen, because out of the five times that the electoral votes overturned the popular vote, it always favored the Republican Party (except John Adams, he was a federalist). Strange, it's only ever happened to them.

 

[Guess Who]

Two Questions:

• Did you participate the system you are now calling archaic? If so, did you read the small print? (your vote is your signature on the dotted line..IMHO!)
• Would you have complained if the results of the count were reversed and favoured Hillary?

I ain't even the person you're responding to but this post is some bullshit.

"Did you participate the system you are now calling archaic?" - even if you hate the system, what choice do you have if you want to have even the smallest influence in the election? Not voting at all is an even worse option.

"Would you have complained if the results of the count were reversed and favoured Hillary?" - the obvious answer there is "no," not just because "my side would've won!" but because then the result would actually reflect the popular vote. If, hypothetically, Hillary had won the Electoral College but lost the popular vote by millions, I would personally find that an incredibly hollow victory and be kind of terrified of the majority of the country.

 

[BronsonLee]

To get this shit back on track, Russia basically needs those sanctions to get wiped out ASAP

Putin can lol at America all he wants, but they're broke

 

[Caja 117]

I kinda agree... its like this. I thought this board, speaking in generalities of course, was very discerning and logical, and thats why there were so many nuances to supporting Hillary Clinton and debunking all the myths and fake news about her propagated by the other end of the political spectrum. I suspect if this report were some sort of scandalous equivalent about her, we would be much more rational and skeptical, probably going so far as to question the motives of the intelligence community (emails) before accepting unsubstantiated claims that would rock american history for decades. Meanwhile, when its about Trump, people are already connecting dots between his affection for Russia and this dossier as if its solid evidence because of confirmation bias (we hate Trump, other than that there is no reason other than speculation to believe the explosive allegations in this dossier are actually true), and rationalizing putting him in jail, impeaching, and stopping the inauguration. Even though one of the only things we know is that we don't know what pieces of these claims were deemed worth investigating, much less if ANY of it is true. The willingness to believe these shocking, explosive accusations about Trump is absolutely unfounded, even if you hate him, because its so damn out there it DEMANDS evidence. And no, sorry, Trumps obvious connections to Russia do not objectively support this level of treason. We should be down-to-earth and analytical, not impulsively reactionary.... The same way it would be for Hillary. Its just kinda disappointing that I thought we were this huge group of thinkers and realists, but it turns out when its about a republican we don't apply the same approach. Anyways, im sure someone will argue against this post pretty well, and it will turn out to be someone who I probably agree with on 99-100% of issues, but alas those people are not the ones Im talking about

The total disconnection of people with what is going on is staggering and frighting : The fake news about HC came from the right, the Russia shit is coming from the IC, its 2 totally different things. if all this would had come from someone like for example Warren, it would ha being different.

 

[KingK]

Two Questions:

• Did you participate the system you are now calling archaic? If so, did you read the small print? (your vote is your signature on the dotted line..IMHO!)
• Would you have complained if the results of the count were reversed and favoured Hillary?

Holy shit dude enough with this false equivalency bullshit. You can't just say that a bunch of nobody racist fucks made up shit about Obama, therefore we should ignore all the intelligence officials, legitimate media sources, and foreign leaders indicating that our next president is an intelligence asset for a hostile foreign power. You are being completely disingenuous and fucking ridiculous.

FWIW, yes I would have complained about foreign influence regardless of who won and I've been complaining about the electoral college since I was 8 years old and learned how it works.

 

[Kyzer]

The total disconnection of people with what is going on is staggering and frighting : The fake news about HC came for the right, the Russia shit is coming from the IC, its 2 totally different things.

How does them being different mean we lose our ability to be discerning and skeptical? As we VERY well know, something being investigated by the IC does not mean it is true.

 

[tedrotheredro]

I kinda agree... its like this. I thought this board, speaking in generalities of course, was very discerning and logical, and thats why there were so many nuances to supporting Hillary Clinton and debunking all the myths and fake news about her propagated by the other end of the political spectrum. I suspect if this report were some sort of scandalous equivalent about her, we would be much more rational and skeptical, probably going so far as to question the motives of the intelligence community (emails) before accepting unsubstantiated claims that would rock american history for decades. Meanwhile, when its about Trump, people are already connecting dots between his affection for Russia and this dossier as if its solid evidence because of confirmation bias (we hate Trump, other than that there is no reason other than speculation to believe the explosive allegations in this dossier are actually true), and rationalizing putting him in jail, impeaching, and stopping the inauguration. Even though one of the only things we know is that we don't know what pieces of these claims were deemed worth investigating, much less if ANY of it is true. The willingness to believe these shocking, explosive accusations about Trump is absolutely unfounded, even if you hate him, because its so damn out there it DEMANDS evidence. And no, sorry, Trumps obvious connections to Russia do not objectively support this level of treason. We should be down-to-earth and analytical, not impulsively reactionary.... The same way it would be for Hillary. Its just kinda disappointing that I thought we were this huge group of thinkers and realists, but it turns out when its about a republican we don't apply the same approach. Anyways, im sure someone will argue against this post pretty well, and it will turn out to be someone who I probably agree with on 99-100% of issues, but alas those people are not the ones Im talking about

I would agree if it weren't for fact that Trump has said everything wrong about this. Let's say this report comes out about Hillary: do you think she would directly question and provoke the IC? Would she continue to talk about Russia in a positive light and speak of lifting sanctions and disbanding NATO?

He's never released his tax returns, has a history of bankruptcy, and he thinks it makes him smart.

These are the kinds of things that make this situation go far beyond a partisan reaction to the allegations.

Seriously, you're "both sides"-ing.

 

[Gutek]

For you guys concern trolling us right now. I can guarantee you that the reactions on here wouldn't be the same if Jeb or someone like Mittens had won.

 

[rjinaz]

To get this shit back on track, Russia basically needs those sanctions to get wiped out ASAP

Putin can lol at America all he wants, but they're broke

It really feels like Russia is in a desperate state and as such decided to strike against America. I'm just hoping in their desperation either they made a mistake along the way or they are going to, by pushing something too far.

 

[SuperEpicMan]

I kinda agree... its like this. I thought this board, speaking in generalities of course, was very discerning and logical, and thats why there were so many nuances to supporting Hillary Clinton and debunking all the myths and fake news about her propagated by the other end of the political spectrum. I suspect if this report were some sort of scandalous equivalent about her, we would be much more rational and skeptical, probably going so far as to question the motives of the intelligence community (emails) before accepting unsubstantiated claims that would rock american history for decades. Meanwhile, when its about Trump, people are already connecting dots between his affection for Russia and this dossier as if its solid evidence because of confirmation bias (we hate Trump, other than that there is no reason other than speculation to believe the explosive allegations in this dossier are actually true), and rationalizing putting him in jail, impeaching, and stopping the inauguration. Even though one of the only things we know is that we don't know what pieces of these claims were deemed worth investigating, much less if ANY of it is true. The willingness to believe these shocking, explosive accusations about Trump is absolutely unfounded, even if you hate him, because its so damn out there it DEMANDS evidence. And no, sorry, Trumps obvious connections to Russia do not objectively support this level of treason. We should be down-to-earth and analytical, not impulsively reactionary.... The same way it would be for Hillary. Its just kinda disappointing that I thought we were this huge group of thinkers and realists, but it turns out when its about a republican we don't apply the same approach. Anyways, im sure someone will argue against this post pretty well, and it will turn out to be someone who I probably agree with on 99-100% of issues, but alas those people are not the ones Im talking about

Even without the leaked notes, there are plenty of other reasons why Trump should not become president.

Also if Hillary had the same pattern of awful behaviour and troubling links to Russia, I am sure we would be having the same discussion about her.

 

[BronsonLee]

It really feels like Russia is in a desperate state and as such decided to strike against America. I'm just hoping in their desperation either they made a mistake along the way or they are going to, by pushing something too far.

They already made the big mistake by basically getting caught

 

[Caja 117]

How does them being different mean we lose our ability to be discerning and skeptical? As we VERY well know, something being investigated by the IC does not mean it is true.

Because of everything that has happened so far even before this was released? Trump ties with Russia seem apparent way before this, and then a Report comes in from the same guy who helped with the FIFA scandal? Why would someone with such a reputation sell out for that?

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

How does them being different mean we lose our ability to be discerning and skeptical? As we VERY well know, something being investigated by the IC does not mean it is true.

Doesn't mean it's true but it needs to be properly investigated. This is coming from a source the IC has worked with prior, being investigated by multiple intelligence agencies across the world, and enough circumstantial evidence to put people on edge.

The bullshit false equivalency to "dying Hillary" or Pizzagate where no one with any credibility would lend an ear to it needs to stop.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

For you guys concern trolling us right now. I can guarantee you that the reactions on here wouldn't be the same if Jeb or someone like Mittens had won.

Yeah. I'd be disappointed, but I wouldn't have wanted the Electoral College to switch votes to Hillary against either of them. I don't think they would be amazing presidents, but they're not demagogues or fascists in the making, they're adults that I just don't agree with politically.

 

[rjinaz]

Even without the leaked notes, there are plenty of other reasons why Trump should not become president.

Also if Hillary had the same pattern of awful behaviour and troubling links to Russia, I am sure we would be having the same discussion about her.

Of course they would be. It's not so easy to just brush aside everything Trump does because "liberal bias". Yes Clinton would have her fair share of defenders here. Of course it's a stupid argument because Clinton wouldn't be involved with Russia in this way anyway. She actually believes in Democracy and isn't just looking for ways to line her pockets.

But putting aside that, yes these arguments would still be happening. The only difference would be Republicans would actually be in a position to do something about it and don't think for a minute they wouldn't be looking at ways to impeach.