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[Vamphuntr]

The thing is that the budget for an AAA iOS game is probably different from an AAA PC game.
You don't need the same level of details at the resolution of iPhone/iPad than that of a PC game.

My guess would be that he wanted to do an "AAA" project to make a name for himself and his team and the cheaper option was to do it on iOS. He should definitely try to do a PC port if he can but I can already hear the complains about how you would get an iOS port. Seems like he is stucked between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

My guess would be that he wanted to do an "AAA" project to make a name for himself and his team and the cheaper option was to do it on iOS.

That's not it. He wanted to be a pioneer, to do something no one had ever tried before. Others have mentioned that precious few PC games use motion capture and some of the other bells and whistles he's already employing.

The thing is, the difference between a pioneer and a fool is measured only by success.

 

[Vamphuntr]

That's not it. He wanted to be a pioneer, to do something no one had ever tried before. Other have mentioned that precious few PC games use motion capture and some of the other bells and whistles he's already employing.

The thing is, the difference between a pioneer and a fool is measured only by success.

I see. It's still all about ambitions it seems :/ . Well he would definitely be a pioneer by coming up with an AAA iOS game like that. I can understand why he designed the project for such platform if he wanted to make a name for himself.

The thing is that it's going to be much more expensive if he wants to do a PC version. With all the whinning here about resolution and graphics, I really don't see people accepting an iOS port for PC. Especially for a game like that.

I guess we could hope that the donations increase so quickly with a PC version that it would fund the extra work by itself.

It's still a shame though. The project is really well presented compared to others kickstarters.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I feel bad that this has stalled, but the pitch is not good.

I don't think it has much meaning at all to iOS gamers

I agree. It feels like the pitch is exclusively aimed at people who think iOS gaming is shit and are skeptical of the platform being able to support good games. Ryan wants to prove them wrong. He wants to prove wrong the very people whom he is asking to pledge money so that he can attempt to prove them wrong. It's kind of a crazy proposition. People who game on their phones all the time probably don't give a shit about a "full-fledged" "triple-A" "console-like" experience. They want Angry Birds and Cut the Rope. The people who are interested in "full-fledged" "triple-A" "console-like" experiences, probably don't really want them on their iPhones. They want to play them on the PCs and consoles.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I see. It's still all about ambitions it seems :/ . Well he would definitely be a pioneer by coming up with an AAA iOS game like that. I can understand why he designed the project for such platform if he wanted to make a name for himself.

The thing is that it's going to be much more expensive if he wants to do a PC version. With all the whinning here about resolution and graphics, I really don't see people accepting an iOS port for PC. Especially for a game like that.

FROM KS PAGE

DIGITAL EDITION: The complete République game for iOS. (iPhone 4 & up, iPod Touch 4 & up, iPad 1 & up)
Estimated Delivery: Jun 2013

The lowest iPad 1 res was 1024 × 768, it's not like the assets would look like shit on PC.
And while the PC market is known for pushing graphics I can't remember the last time a game was hurt by not being bleeding edge, so long as it has a good art style and isn't glitch people are forgiving.


The only reason to be exclusive is if your being paid to be, other wise it's a stupid move.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

The thing is that it's going to be much more expensive if he wants to do a PC version. With all the whinning here about resolution and graphics, I really don't see people accepting an iOS port for PC. Especially for a game like that.

People have dropped over a million dollars on Shadowrun, which is probably going to be 2D. They dropped over three million on a Double Fine point and click. They dropped three million on Wasteland 2 with nothing more than the promise of a sequel to a Commodore 64 title. Grim Dawn has far exceeded Republique's total within a single day, and its visuals are hardly cutting edge.

The people supporting games through Kickstarter are clearly not motivated primarily by graphics. The only game in the cool club which can be said to be visually stunning at the time of presentation is The Banner Saga, which is drawn and animated by hand.

 

[Dog Problems]

I agree. It feels like the pitch is exclusively aimed at people who think iOS gaming is shit and are skeptical of the platform being able to support good games. Ryan wants to prove them wrong. He wants to prove wrong the very people whom he is asking to pledge money so that he can attempt to prove them wrong. It's kind of a crazy proposition. People who game on their phones all the time probably don't give a shit about a "full-fledged" "triple-A" "console-like" experience. They want Angry Birds and Cut the Rope. The people who are interested in "full-fledged" "triple-A" "console-like" experiences, probably don't really want them on their iPhones. They want to play them on the PCs and consoles.

We exist but unfortunately it seems we're still a minority. :-\

 

[Vamphuntr]

FROM KS PAGE


The lowest iPad 1 res was 1024 × 768, it's not like the assets would look like shit on PC.
And while the PC market is known for pushing graphics I can't remember the last time a game was hurt by not being bleeding edge, so long as it has a good art style and isn't glitch people are forgiving.


The only reason to be exclusive is if your being paid to be, other wise it's a stupid move.

Yeah I know it's on iPad too but what I wanted to say but worded poorly is how the power difference between an iOS device is huge. What is accepted for an iPad is clearly not the same for a PC game. Personally, I couldn't care any less as I was satisifed with his pitch and backed the project.

People have dropped over a million dollars on Shadowrun, which is probably going to be 2D. They dropped over three million on a Double Fine point and click. They dropped three million on Wasteland 2 with nothing more than the promise of a sequel to a Commodore 64 title. Grim Dawn has far exceeded Republique's total within a single day, and its visuals are hardly cutting edge.

The people supporting games through Kickstarter are clearly not motivated primarily by graphics. The only game in the cool club which can be said to be visually stunning at the time of presentation is The Banner Saga, which was drawn and animated by hand.

I can agree to people being not motivated solely on graphics but all those projects you mentionned outside of Grim Dawn are already 2D games in the first place. It would follow in the traditions of the previous entries fans waited so long to get. Fans also know it would be impossible for instance to fund a 3D AAA Wasteland 2. The names and IP also helped push those successful KS projects. Ryan Payton doesn't have the same notoriety as Tim Schafer or Brian Fargo :/ and he's offering an entirely new IP. People will be more forgiving if it's something they really want and know there will be some comprise to make for it to happen.

I'm still convinced he would fund it if offered a PC version though. He's either a fool or being obsessed by his ambition to make his super uber awesome iOS game or wants to stay true to his vision of the game (where your phone itself is part of the concept!).

 

[Du2andal]

I hope they concede and make a PC version. I personally cant wait to have her fake-skype me to ask for help escaping Big Brother.

 

[boingball]

I hope they concede and make a PC version. I personally cant wait to have her fake-skype me to ask for help escaping Big Brother.

That would be a different game though. Or are there touchscreen input devices for the PC? (Well there are, but I mean, like in millions of peoples homes).

Android and/or Vita would be possibilities. Those would be straightforward ports of the same game.

PC would mean a re-design of the input (and from the description also a redesign of the game itself).


Well, they posted a second update to the Kickstarter with links to all the press coverage. Though most of them are console/PC space and not iOS space... Don't know whether that is the right target to get traction for this KS.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/486250632/republique-by-camouflaj-logan/posts/209902

 

[Haunted]

That would be a different game though. Or are there touchscreen input devices for the PC? (Well there are, but I mean, like in millions of peoples homes).

Android and/or Vita would be possibilities. Those would be straightforward ports of the same game.

PC would mean a re-design of the input (and from the description also a redesign of the game itself).

Touching and swiping can be done with the mouse, I'm not aware of any additional control inputs. Maybe you have to talk into the phone at some point (not everyone has a mic). 

As Ryan said in this very thread before, it would feel different (as you're missing the immediate haptic feedback with a mouse), but as far as mere functionality goes, clicking and touching is the same thing.

Well, they posted a second update to the Kickstarter with links to all the press coverage. Though most of them are console/PC space and not iOS space... Don't know whether that is the right target to get traction for this KS.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...n/posts/209902

Wow, that's pretty much as extensive and exhaustive a media roundup as any I've seen, comparable to the three big kickstarters (DFA, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun).

If it doesn't get any traction with that, I don't know what they can do with this pitch.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

they posted a second update to the Kickstarter with links to all the press coverage. Though most of them are console/PC space and not iOS space... Don't know whether that is the right target to get traction for this KS.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/486250632/republique-by-camouflaj-logan/posts/209902

It's just so weird that they're heavily pushing this to people may be interested in the game, but don't tend to be interested in the platform.

 

[Radogol]

Touching and swiping can be done with the mouse, I'm not aware of any additional control inputs.

Multi-touch?

 

[Durante]

As Ryan said in this very thread before, it would feel different (as you're missing the immediate haptic feedback with a mouse), but as far as mere functionality goes, clicking and touching is the same thing.

The one really interesting thing phones can do in terms of input is multi-touch, and you can't easily replicate this on PC.

(Which sucks when testing phone games during development!)

 

[Haunted]

Multi-touch?

The one really interesting thing phones can do in terms of input is multi-touch, and you can't easily replicate this on PC.

(Which sucks when testing phone games during development!)

Ha! I knew I was missing something obvious here.

Point taken.

 

[Radogol]

Ha! I knew I was missing something obvious here.

Point taken.

To be fair, Republique doesn't seem to be using multi-touch, except maybe for zooming which can be replicated with the scroll wheel.

 

[border]

Is this going to be the first high-profile Kickstarter game to fail to get funded? It seems like everything else has met with almost immediate success.

 

[The Bookerman]

I wonder at what point Ryan will start considering making concessions to pragmatism. If he continues down this path he risks being remembered as that guy who thought it was a good idea to gamble his life savings on phone gamers wanting something high budget and creative. Oh well. Assuming he still reads this thread, he can't say that we didn't warn him.

Hey he had the balls to go through with his convictions.

I wouldn't be working in this industry if I didn't do the same.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Is this going to be the first high-profile Kickstarter game to fail to get funded? It seems like everything else has met with almost immediate success.

huh?

not sure if serious.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

huh?

not sure if serious.

He did qualify it with "high-profile".

 

[Dreams-Visions]

He did qualify it with "high-profile".

fair enough. I can't say I've followed *all* the high-profile games and efforts that have ever been presented on Kickstarter to comment on a point that claims level of specificity.

 

[border]

"High-profile" meaning games from current or former industry professionals that have made a name for themselves elsewhere. I'm sure there have been plenty of hobbyist productions that failed to gain traction on Kickstarter.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Hey he had the balls to go through with his convictions.

I wouldn't be working in this industry if I didn't do the same.

Hey I'll never call him a coward, that's for sure.

Might call him some other things if a PC version is never made, but there's nothing to be done about that.

 

[boingball]

Is this going to be the first high-profile Kickstarter game to fail to get funded? It seems like everything else has met with almost immediate success.

Well Takedown almost did not make it.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/355932838/crowdsourced-hardcore-tactical-shooter

Got it's bump mainly thanks to Notch tweeting about it.


And there is of course Class Of Heroes 2 for the PSP which will fail and might have less money and most certainly less backers than Republique.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1272149684/class-of-heroes-2-deluxe-for-the-psp-system?ref=users

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

So appealing to typical media outlets is a bust; kind of an antithetical approach for a Kickstarter campaign if you think about it. This article is a pretty good read that goes in depth about how some of the other indie Kickstarters planned their campaigns.

With a handful of campaigns either completed or in full swing, the Stoic trio had enough material to formulate a solid plan. The first part of this plan was to avoid going in cold. “We did a lot of research when we were planning out our campaign but the best advice we got was to talk about the game early and often, pre-launch,” says Thomas. “By the time our page was ready to go we had a lot of people already interested in the game, which got us to our goal quick, in turn generating a lot more media attention and so on and so forth.” They also took special care when it came to the different rewards Kickstarter backers would receive at different levels. “One of the things we’re most happy with is the extra time we took to show all of our prizes at the start of the project,” Thomas elaborates. “As far as I know we were the first to really go all out with [it] and I think people have really connected with that.” Finally, they made sure people would get a preview of the game itself. “Another top priority was to make sure we had an actual game to show and make sure it was an accurate representation of the final product. Without a big name backing us we knew we’d be relying on the quality of the game itself to get people interested and the sincerity of how into it we truly are.”

And some relevant advice:

Asked more generally about the future of Kickstarter, Alex Thomas of Stoic answered in depth. “We’ve been talking about this a lot lately,” Thomas reveals. “The way I see it, Kickstarter is an incredible good-will generator and if you really hit the right note with an audience that feels abandoned by the current games market they won’t hesitate to support you. Interestingly, models that are popular with publishers right now like mobile games, micro-transactions, Facebook titles, MMOs and generally online or social aspects in a game are the kiss of death on Kickstarter. Since Double Fine’s success we’ve also seen a flood of old-school known developers looking for support.”

 

[border]

I suppose it would be hard not to get swept up in all the Kickstarter hype, if I were in Payton's position. So many no-name developers are getting their games off the ground by promising so much and showing so little. For someone with a proven pedigree, it should be easy to get funding, right? Wrong. I think the problem is that they have done so little to cater to their specialized platform. iOS gamers are not above paying for stuff, but they typically want something for free. They aren't going to bite at a vague concept video, and aren't going to pay for a $10-15 game without trying it first.

They should have had a free demo or CHAPTER 1 ready to go on the App Store, free of charge. When you complete it, the game prompts you to visit the Kickstarter page. Or better yet, have CHAPTER 2 already completed and you can buy it for a couple bucks when you finish CHAPTER 1. At the end of both chapters the user is prompted to the Kickstarter page as well. That way they have money flowing in from both the Kickstarter page and the App Store.

Then you load the Kickstarter page with videos and information that entices the player beyond what a Proof Of Concept video would do. Players have already played the game so you can show new mechanics, items, weapons, and scenarios that will make the game more fun and interesting than the demo they've already played. You could even put those videos in the game itself, and have them play at the end of the first and second chapters.

Of course, perhaps I don't know enough about game development or Camoflaj's budget to say whether or not they could make 1-2 complete chapters before receiving funding. Though if you can't even get 1/10th of the way through a game before you run out of cash, then it's probably not a good time to start a new development studio.

A setup like this might make potential publishers or investors more comfortable too. They can commit to funding Chapter 1 and Chapter 2, and if the interest isn't there they can bow out. Making them fund the entire game before they know if there's a market for it is putting them in a pretty high-risk scenario.

 

[onlyindreams]

Toucharcade's main focus in the weekly releases post in a week where there's a Total War Shogun game from Sega is a shitty 99cent casual game called.... Burger Cat. What an awful site.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

This isn't going to make it, is it? What do they need $500k for anyway?

 

[Lime]

This isn't going to make it, is it? What do they need $500k for anyway?

Cutscenes, voice acting and animation are probably the most expensive costs, I could imagine.

 

[kairu]

Yeah, When I first heard about this game I was super excited. Seeing how slowly the Kickstarter is ticking up has me kind of worried. I hope it does make it. I've already tossed in $50.

What is it about Republique that is turning people off? The fact that its only iOS?

 

[Dog Problems]

Yeah, When I first heard about this game I was super excited. Seeing how slowly the Kickstarter is ticking up has me kind of worried. I hope it does make it. I've already tossed in $50.

What is it about Republique that is turning people off? The fact that its only iOS?

Yeah, that's the main thing.

 

[Castor Krieg]

What is it about Republique that is turning people off? The fact that its only iOS?

The lowest possible pledge is $10...for an iOS game. Screw that.

 

[michaelius]

They are appealing to fanbase which doesn't exist - enthusiast diehard ios core gamer.

If you look at Schaffer, Wasteland, Shadowland and Banner Saga - they appeal to maybe small and vocal but certainly dedicated fanbase of core pc gamers - and 3 of them are RPG - genre who fans can spawn sites like rpgcodex.

 

[numble]

I suppose it would be hard not to get swept up in all the Kickstarter hype, if I were in Payton's position. So many no-name developers are getting their games off the ground by promising so much and showing so little. For someone with a proven pedigree, it should be easy to get funding, right? Wrong. I think the problem is that they have done so little to cater to their specialized platform. iOS gamers are not above paying for stuff, but they typically want something for free. They aren't going to bite at a vague concept video, and aren't going to pay for a $10-15 game without trying it first.

They should have had a free demo or CHAPTER 1 ready to go on the App Store, free of charge. When you complete it, the game prompts you to visit the Kickstarter page. Or better yet, have CHAPTER 2 already completed and you can buy it for a couple bucks when you finish CHAPTER 1. At the end of both chapters the user is prompted to the Kickstarter page as well. That way they have money flowing in from both the Kickstarter page and the App Store.

Then you load the Kickstarter page with videos and information that entices the player beyond what a Proof Of Concept video would do. Players have already played the game so you can show new mechanics, items, weapons, and scenarios that will make the game more fun and interesting than the demo they've already played. You could even put those videos in the game itself, and have them play at the end of the first and second chapters.

Of course, perhaps I don't know enough about game development or Camoflaj's budget to say whether or not they could make 1-2 complete chapters before receiving funding. Though if you can't even get 1/10th of the way through a game before you run out of cash, then it's probably not a good time to start a new development studio.

A setup like this might make potential publishers or investors more comfortable too. They can commit to funding Chapter 1 and Chapter 2, and if the interest isn't there they can bow out. Making them fund the entire game before they know if there's a market for it is putting them in a pretty high-risk scenario.

Good post.

 

[Dog Problems]

The lowest possible pledge is $10...for an iOS game. Screw that.

You don't think it's possible for an iOS game to be worth $10?

 

[Reg]

should have mentioned a pc version as well

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Yeah, that's the main thing.

if that's really all Camoflaj get out of this ("it didn't succeed because it was pitched as an iOS game!"), I pity them

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

The lowest possible pledge is $10...for an iOS game. Screw that.

Yeah, unlike a few (like me), most of the people pledging will not go for "No Reward".

 

[Opiate]

Generally I think Kickstarter would be good at identifying market inefficiencies; that is, genres or platforms or franchises which have gone underused by Publishers but which customers actually want. Publishers either do not recognize this consumer demand or have ulterior reasons not to satisfy it, and so an end run around publishers works.

Not surprisingly, a huge portion of this is represented by "old school" PC games. Console games and shooters and iOS games will rarely fit this description, because those are platforms and genres which already have plenty of publisher attention. If a shooter can't find a publisher in the current environment, it's likely because the game isn't very good.

 

[Aaron]

I wouldn't use the word 'good,' because it's not amount good or bad. It's about the want for a type of game on a certain platform. A new Wasteland or Shadowrun on PC fills that existing want, just like a spaceship sim FTL fills an existing niche. That's the best way kickstarter works. This project is more like trying to create a niche that doesn't yet exist, and as a result there's very few people willing to back it up. You can't really create an audience on kickstarter. It's making a foundation out of thin air.

 

[JasonUresti]

I do think many here overestimate just how much of a "name" Ryan Payton is in the larger gaming community. To IOS gamers, does his name really ring out?

Payton seems like a fine fellow, but having just one shipped title on his resume doesn't inspire great confidence. Fargo has run game companies successfully for decades now, Tim Schafer has made critically acclaimed games for nearly as long. Jane Jensen designed some classic and fondly remembered adventure games. Shadowrun was a very popular pen and paper RPG that was greatly loved, and inspired several well thought of games, and Jordan Weisman has been designing games for years. Ryan Payton worked on Metal Gear Solid 4. Not really in the same class, is he? No slight intended to him or his talents, just a comparison.

Those names would have had a hard time getting 500k for an IOS only games. Mr. Payton went big and bold, and it looks like he asked for too much. He needed to really build his name and Camouflaj up first, before trying something like this.

 

[DiscoJer]

Those names would have had a hard time getting 500k for an IOS only games. Mr. Payton went big and bold, and it looks like he asked for too much. He needed to really build his name and Camouflaj up first, before trying something like this.

Well, heck, those names are having a hard time raising that much for their PC games. LSL will make it (I would guess end around 600k), but I'm not sure Jane Jensen's will - I would guess maybe $400,000 for hers.

 

[Haunted]

I mean, it's not like this Kickstarter is completely failing. They've raised over seventy five thousand dollars so far, and I'm fairly certain the worst case here would be to finish with roughly double that.

Maybe they just plain ol' asked for too much money.

Generally I think Kickstarter would be good at identifying market inefficiencies; that is, genres or platforms or franchises which have gone underused by Publishers but which customers actually want. Publishers either do not recognize this consumer demand or have ulterior reasons not to satisfy it, and so an end run around publishers works.

Not surprisingly, a huge portion of this is represented by "old school" PC games. Console games and shooters and iOS games will rarely fit this description, because those are platforms and genres which already have plenty of publisher attention. If a shooter can't find a publisher in the current environment, it's likely because the game isn't very good.

I wouldn't use the word 'good,' because it's not amount good or bad. It's about the want for a type of game on a certain platform. A new Wasteland or Shadowrun on PC fills that existing want, just like a spaceship sim FTL fills an existing niche. That's the best way kickstarter works. This project is more like trying to create a niche that doesn't yet exist, and as a result there's very few people willing to back it up. You can't really create an audience on kickstarter. It's making a foundation out of thin air.

Excellent points.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I mean, it's not like this Kickstarter is completely failing. They've raised over seventy five thousand dollars so far, and I'm fairly certain the worst case here would be to finish with roughly double that.

Maybe they just plain ol' asked for too much money.




Excellent points.

It has made a couple of grand it the last few days is pathetic, it will get nowhere near it's goal without massive changes to the base concept.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/64409699/ftl-faster-than-light
This is a 3 man project asking for 10 grand and ended up 25% higher then this.

 

[Special J]

It has made a couple of grand it the last few days is pathetic, it will get nowhere near it's goal without massive changes to the base concept.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/64409699/ftl-faster-than-light
This is a 3 man project asking for 10 grand and ended up 25% higher then this.

that looks completley unintresting... they got to pocket the 190k lol.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

that looks completley unintresting... they got to pocket the 190k lol.

I like the project, and it really shows how big a fuck up this project is, something as niche as a 2d space fairing rouge-like can do these sort of numbers.

 

[Chinner]

i think the 3 problems this project faces is:

1. it's ios
2. it's an unknown quantity/not similar to other games
3. goes against gaming trends ( no shooting, main character isn't sexualised etc)

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

i think the 3 problems this project faces is:
...
3. goes against gaming trends ( no shooting, main character isn't sexualised etc)

I hope not, these are the points why I'd like to try the game.

 

[Chinner]

oh i agree 100%.

 

[kadab]

he should ask kojima for some money.