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Republique Kickstarter by Ryan Payton - NOW FOR PC AND MAC! [Ended, $555K funded]

M

Mario007

Member
numble said:
If you're in the US, the carriers offer the largest subsidy for iPhones. They offer the iPhone for $199 on contract and $649 off-contract, while other $199 phones are $549 off-contract. Even if you don't like iPhones, it makes more economic sense to get a $199 iPhone and sell it.

I don't know how you can mention old iPhones being obsolete with Android phones in the same breath. Most games still target iPhone 3GS since it is still the #3 most sold phone in the US (since its now offered free on contract). You have a lot more app-compatibility problems with say a Motorola Droid or Nexus One, which were phones released much later than the 3GS.
Click to expand...

but if you're not in the US and/or are sane enough not to get completely ripped off by a contract (at least that's how contracts work in Europe) you have an iPhone which is from 600-800 euros. As opposed to that even the One X is just 599, never mind GSII at 500, Galaxy nexus at 450 or Xperia S at 420 (all of which are, at the very least on par with iPhone 4S if not better).

also on topic, setting a kickstarter for an indie iOS project is, I think, abusing the system.iOS projects aren't really as risky as PC or PSN/XBLA (never mind proper console titles) and will net the developer a lot of money, if reports on games making indie devs a fortune on iOS are to be believed.

Also refusal to port it to other touchscreen devices with market penetration (Android, maybe Vita) is not the best stance to take, in my opinion.
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Interfectum said:
He probably wants his game to sell.
Click to expand...

Then he would be making something with wide mainstream appeal and not super niche. Mock certain hardware platforms all you want, but the reason exclusives exist is the financial security they can bring to a project and get the thing made. Just having the funds to make this game keeps these people in paid jobs for the development duration, and they can figure out where to go after they've actually made a name for themselves.

Kickstarter can't be the answer to everything, especially if you're unwilling to compromise fluidly with what the market is clearly asking of you. This game was in development before the sudden Kickstarter phenomenon, and its clear to me its been looked at as "the potential miracle". Reality has come a knocking instead of 500k however.
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
Pie and Beans said:
Then he would be making something with wide mainstream appeal and not super niche. Mock certain hardware platforms all you want, but the reason exclusives exist is the financial security they can bring to a project and get the thing made. Just having the funds to make this game keeps these people in paid jobs for the development duration, and they can figure out where to go after they've actually made a name for themselves.

Kickstarter can't be the answer to everything, especially if you're unwilling to compromise fluidly with what the market is clearly asking of you. This game was in development before the sudden Kickstarter phenomenon, and its clear to me its been looked at as "the potential miracle". Reality has come a knocking instead of 500k however.
Click to expand...

It's pretty clear that what Ryan is dreaming of here is being first to market with a unique type of software built ground-up for phones. Infinity Blade was more of a technical showpiece, a familiar genre adapted to touch controls. I think Ryan wants to hit it big on the iOS platform and thereby spark a revolution in the types of games that are made for it. I can appreciate the lure of that dream, I'm just concerned he might end up bankrupt in his pursuit of it. As you said, reality came knocking instead of half a mil in funding. If anything, Kickstarter may have done more harm than good by poisoning the Touch Arcade well. Fetid though the site may be, it could have been a valuable promotional avenue if Ryan had done it by the books. Instead, their readers now probably think that Ryan is some sort of hack or scam artist and that Republique is a punch line.

At the very least it now seems clear that Kickstarter is the realm of the PC. You cannot expect half a million dollars without the support of the core gaming enthusiasts that make the computer their home. All four games that have reached that number are PC lead platform: Double Fine Adventure, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns, and The Banner Saga. That is no coincidence.

If it weren't an untenable proposition for obvious reasons, I would ask Ryan to actually conduct a poll of all the people who have pledged to Republique thus far. Ask them what their preferred platform is like The Banner Saga did. I would be surprised to see iOS come out with more than half the votes.
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Ignis Fatuus said:
It's pretty clear that what Ryan is dreaming of here is being first to market with a unique type of software built ground-up for phones. Infinity Blade was more of a technical showpiece, a familiar genre adapted to touch controls. I think he wants to hit it big on the iOS platform and thereby spark a revolution in the types of games that are made for it. I can appreciate the lure of that dream, I'm just concerned he might end up bankrupt in his pursuit of it.
Click to expand...

Its also being so completely unrealistic its really sad to watch. Epic Games, despite being bigtime devs before that, became even more of a household name this gen thanks to Gears and UE3 powering absolutely everything, making them probably the most high profile dev out there these days. Who knows what happened behind closed doors, but Apple latched onto Infinity Blade pretty early on as THE iPhone game and put their entire brand oomph behind it from marketing we know about, but what else who can say.

Camoflaj is an entirely new outfit probably struggling to survive, Ryan's not exactly high profile these days, and yet they want to go above and beyond even Epic's offerings, without Apple's support, and do so by not compromising on production values? This is when I feel bad that people don't give more weight to that friend or colleague making a very loud "ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR..." sound.

Presumably all the publishing houses said no, and now it seems like the internet's ambivalence is the other shoe dropping. Maybe there will be a sudden turnaround miracle and the day will be saved, but however talented a developer Ryan and co can prove themselves to be, kamikaze business sense isn't going to do them any favours.

I think the problem with the PC platform is it goes against the games portability focus. But then on the flipside Grim Dawn has just made a third of Republique's total in like less than a day. But once again thats off the back of an old dev and series with fans, and for a genre people are always looking for more of. I dunno. The odds were against this one in absolutely every way possible, and a lot of that is due to somewhat stubborn decision making.
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
Pie and Beans said:
Presumably all the publishing houses said no
Click to expand...

I think the main problem there is that Ryan is aiming for digital distribution and wants to retain ownership of the IP. A publisher would demand the rights to the IP. Instead it sounds like he's going to raise venture capital on his own and cut out the publishers, but this is obviously very risky. If the project is not the hit they want it to be, they could lose everything.

subversus said:
they did a poll and as I remember 4-5% were interested in iOS version.
Click to expand...
I incorporated that into my edit. I wish Ryan would poll his current backers as well. He might be surprised by the results. How many people in this thread alone said they were pledging even though they would never be able to play the game?
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
One last thing, Ryan. Your Business Insider interview was good overall, but these two answers sound somewhat dishonest and resemble classic marketing parlance, like you're trying too hard to stay on message:

The Kickstarter campaign has more than 20 days to go, so it's still very early, but what do you think of the response so far?

The response to the game has been incredible. So much outpouring of positive energy from the community. I think we're off to a fine start, but we've got a lot of work to do to reach our goal. It's going to be a fun campaign.

That said, what happens if you don't meet the $500,000 goal? How would not reaching it impact you personally?

Honestly, the response to the game has been so overwhelmingly positive that we're not going to let anything get in my way to make the game. Missing our Kickstarter goal will definitely have ramifications, but we are fighters. We will find a way.
Click to expand...
You're pretending that this campaign has been all sunshine and rainbows but that's obviously not the case. Touch Arcade aside, the requests for a platform switch have been overwhelming everywhere I've looked. All the successful Kickstarters thus far have been characterized by direct and honest communication and flexibility in the face of criticism. Your campaign is chugging along as though all your greatest hopes have been validated and like everything is fine and dandy.

You cannot run a successful Kickstarter like a corporate PR campaign. There is only so long that you can pretend that the Americans are not at Baghdad Airport before people start to feel like you're not being entirely straight with them, and once that trust is gone the campaign is over. To me, these answers are an indication that you already consider the Kickstarter to be a lost battle and are looking ahead to the traditional marketing campaign.

If this thread is any indication, the majority of the buzz you're getting is from gamers who desperately want your game, just on a different platform. It would be prudent not to alienate them through indifference. If that happens, come launch day you might not have any buzz at all.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
So he should make a video like that Tactical Hardcore Shooter guy and basically beg for money? lol

Sadly, there's not much he can do. Presumably the other investors he has are only in if they make an iOS game and totally changing the scope of the project doesn't make sense for the people who actually invested in this because it's on iOS.

What I don't understand is whether or not they allow people to start another kickstarter after one fails. He could try again at some later date, presumably.
 
K

KTallguy

Banned
I hope more people back this. I'm still very interested in this kind of thing on my phone. I'm sure whatever happens, they'll find a way to make it.
 
N

numble

Member
daegan said:
Ryan tweeted yesterday he was in a bunch of meetings with press; I assume it's coming.
Click to expand...

I think it might suggest he's in meetings with publishers/funders due to interest generated by Kickstarter. He doesn't specifically say press, does he?
 
B

boingball

Member
I would pitch in 100 bucks if it would come out for AmigaOS.

Just kidding of course (and I did put in $10 already for the iOS version).

Ryan has stated that he believes that there is a market for AAA $10+ games on iOS and he wants to prove it via Kickstarter. I am not sure this game qualifies as an AAA game, but what the Kickstarter clearly shows that there is currently no crowd-funding market for iOS. One of the reasons might be that there are a couple of hundred games coming out each week on iOS and hence iOS customers don't see the need to pay $10 for a game which is supposed to come out in June 2013 (plus delays) when they can have 10 games today for the same money (or one ten dollar game).

I do believe it is valid assumption and I am grateful that Ryan did make this Kickstarter. I don't think it is helpful to say, that it was a mistake to not do this game on PC, on Android, on XBLA, on Vita, whatever. How should we know beforehand without trying?

That toucharcade is ignoring Kickstarters doesn't help either (well, in iOS land it is custom that publishers pay for reviews, obviously Kickstarters won't. I don't know whether toucharcade is one of the site who expects payments for reviews and publicity, but it might explain their stance if they do). pocketgamer btw reported about this Kickstarter (that is my go-to-site for iOS).

I agree that Vita would be an excellent choice, if Sony is willing to cough up the 500k. They have shown that they let developers implement their vision (thatgamecompany is an example), so Ryan could get his game done without changes in the interface (Vita has touchscreen as well after all).

I for one am curious what Ryan will do once this Kickstarter has failed.

P.S.
The Doublefine Kickstarter has gotten a lot of PC gamers attracted to Kickstarter and this is a market where PC Kickstarters can now tap into. No such thing has happened so far for other platforms (console or mobile). Note that plenty of mainstream press reported about the Doublefine Kickstarter and it is difficult to tell how many backers found their way to Kickstarter via specialized websites/blogs/twitter/podcasts.

P.P.S.
Saying that this Kickstarter is less professional than e.g. the Doublefine is laughable. Republique is in a much better shape than "Adventure" for which not even an idea exists... Basically Tim Schaefer said: "Give me money and I will start to think about a point-and-click adventure". He basically sold his own name.
 
B

boingball

Member
firehawk12 said:
So he should make a video like that Tactical Hardcore Shooter guy and basically beg for money? lol
Click to expand...

That project should never have been funded, I agree.

Though he worked on his Kickstarter a lot and at the end it looked a little bit more professional.

He basically got funded because Notch (Minecraft) tweeted to his 600k followers that this project looks promising.

Is there an iOS guy with the same following on twitter to do this for Republique?
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
boingball said:
I for one am curious what Ryan will do once this Kickstarter has failed.
Click to expand...
We already know. He's going to do what he would've done had Kickstarter not become a thing.

boingball said:
P.P.S.
Saying that this Kickstarter is less professional than e.g. the Doublefine is laughable.
Click to expand...

Who said this?

boingball said:
Is there an iOS guy with the same following on twitter to do this for Republique?
Click to expand...

I think Hodapp has a following.
 
V

Vamphuntr

Member
It's too bad this one isn't doing so well because it was probably one of the best gaming Kickstarter presentation wise. You have lots of details about the story, context, gameplay and what to expect from the game in length and so on. You also have a preview of some of the rewards like the book. He's also clear about the fact that a private investor will contribute to the other half of the funding.
 
Crystalkoen

Crystalkoen

Member
While I'm intrigued by the idea of the game (wasn't there a 360 game along the same lines?), I do not, and will never own an iOS device. Combine that with my mentality that, while I may support this game's idea, I'm not going to PAY for an idea alone; I need something in return, in most cases a playable copy of the game at a reasonable price. Because of that, and his stubbornness to keep it iOS alone, I will never back his project regardless of how much I'd like to. Wasteland? Banner Saga? Shadowrun? All games whose ideas and/or settings I love, and can get something useful to me in return for backing... and I've spent a not-insignificant amount of money in regards to those games because of that. I am obviously not alone in that boat.

Also, I'd like to say your comments are pretty much on-target, Ignus. Reminds me of a conversation a friend and I had when this whole Kickstarter craze began regarding its future uses.

Basically, Kickstarter is a great premise, but it runs into issues when used as a "guaranteed pre-order" device, or worse, a marketing campaign of its own. These guys are still marketing to publishers, trying to get the game made the classic way; it almost feels like this particular KS campaign was only intended to be used as a vessel to pitch the game to prospective publishers, not as a serious "without you guys, we can't make this game" campaign.
 
T

The Omega Man

Member
Vamphuntr said:
It's too bad this one isn't doing so well because it was probably one of the best gaming Kickstarter presentation wise. You have lots of details about the story, context, gameplay and what to expect from the game in length and so on. You also have a preview of some of the rewards like the book. He's also clear about the fact that a private investor will contribute to the other half of the funding.
Click to expand...

Dat Kojima with a merciful cheque
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
why is their stance on being iOS only still so strong? Is there something I'm missing?

you've got people waving their arms telling you "hey, make it for pc/vita/android and I'll fund it" but there's just no movement. Every other project I've seen has said "if we get to x we'll do it for x x and x".

are they that desperate to be part of the iOS success story? I don't get it.
 
K

KTallguy

Banned
The thing is, this is not some huge brand name with a ton of good will, like say Shadowrun or Wasteland. It's harder to sell people on new concepts and new IP. I have faith in Payton and his team, and I like what they're trying to do! So I'm happy to support them, but it's much harder to sell people on something that they've never heard of before.
 
V

Vyse The Legend

Member
D4Danger said:
why their stance on being iOS only is still so strong? Is there something I'm missing?

you've got people waving their arms telling you "hey, make it for pc/vita/android and I'll fund it" but there's just no movement. Every other project I've seen has said "if we get to x we'll do it for x x and x".

are they that desperate to be part of the iOS success story? I don't get it.
Click to expand...

Ryan wants Republique to save iOS gaming for "serious" gamers.

He probably does not want to dilute that vision by making it a multiplatform game.
 
S

slaughterking

Member
D4Danger said:
why their stance on being iOS only is still so strong? Is there something I'm missing?

you've got people waving their arms telling you "hey, make it for pc/vita/android and I'll fund it" but there's just no movement. Every other project I've seen has said "if we get to x we'll do it for x x and x".

are they that desperate to be part of the iOS success story? I don't get it.
Click to expand...

It's a tough situation to be in. The KS is barely at 15%. If they add a PC version right now and that somehow pushes it to 500k essentially 85% of all donations would come from the PC crowd. Which would then make the PC version a top priority and completely mess with their current plans.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
slaughterking said:
It's a tough situation to be in. The KS is barely at 15%. If they add a PC version right now and that somehow pushes it to 500k essentially 85% of all donations would come from the PC crowd. Which would then make the PC version a top priority and completely mess with their current plans.
Click to expand...

Gotta do whatcha gotta do sometimes. It's a basic life lesson, and especially one in entertainment. Sometimes actors take roles in movies that they aren't interested in. Sometimes musicians start their careers by singing song styles they don't like. You do what you have to do to get established, then you can make your career your own later. Hopefully they'll make the adjustment if needed.
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Vyse The Legend said:
Ryan wants Republique to save iOS gaming for "serious" gamers.

He probably does not want to dilute that vision by making it a multiplatform game.
Click to expand...

do Apple make magic touch screens or something? How exactly would making it for Android or Vita change their vision?

The game is built using Unity, right? I get that they have limited resources but they seem to be going out of their way to remain iOS exclusive and it's blowing up in their face.
 
Interfectum

Interfectum

Member
D4Danger said:
do Apple make magic touch screens or something? How exactly would making it for Android or Vita change their vision?

The game is built using Unity, right? I get that they have limited resources but they seem to be going out of their way to remain iOS exclusive and it's blowing up in their face.
Click to expand...

You think the funding would magically skyrocket if they announced it for Android and Vita? Really? The few port beggers in this thread aren't going to bump it up another 425k.
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Interfectum said:
You think the funding would magically skyrocket if they announced it for Android and Vita? Really? The few port beggers in this thread aren't going to bump it up another 425k.
Click to expand...

no, I don't think it would go anywhere now. I think it would've been different if they'd started there though.
 
S

slaughterking

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
Gotta do whatcha gotta do sometimes. It's a basic life lesson, and especially one in entertainment. Sometimes actors take roles in movies that they aren't interested in. Sometimes musicians start their careers by singing song styles they don't like. You do what you have to do to get established, then you can make your career your own later. Hopefully they'll make the adjustment if needed.
Click to expand...

I agree, but I'm sure Ryan wants to try something else before (maybe) committing to something drastic like a PC version.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
Ryan, Grim Dawn is about to pass Republique in one day:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crateentertainment/grim-dawn

You picked the wrong platform to kick start. Make a name for yourself on PC, and expand from there.

slaughterking said:
I agree, but I'm sure Ryan wants to try something else before (maybe) committing to something drastic like a PC version.
Click to expand...

You have to know your market. IOS gamers have a tough time spending more than 99 cents on a game. Why would they come in droves and offer 10 dollars for a promise?

PC has a history of supporting these type of projects. The PC platform also has a history of being the absolute best platform for an upstart company to release their game on. PC is no guarantee for success, but it is a better prospect. To be clear, I don't think Republique being on IOS is a mistake. I think making the game IOS only without a PC version is the mistake. Especially when attempting to kick start the project.
 
N

numble

Member
Ignis Fatuus said:
I think Hodapp has a following.
Click to expand...
LOL, Hodapp has less than 5k followers, keep making him to be some big name that he isn't. Ask people in any of the iOS threads if they've heard of him.

If John Gruber or one of the 5by5 guys talked about him, or if they bought an ad on the 5by5 network, there might be something going.
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
Dreams-Visions said:
Gotta do whatcha gotta do sometimes. It's a basic life lesson, and especially one in entertainment. Sometimes actors take roles in movies that they aren't interested in. Sometimes musicians start their careers by singing song styles they don't like. You do what you have to do to get established, then you can make your career your own later. Hopefully they'll make the adjustment if needed.
Click to expand...

Good post.
 
A

areal

Member
I feel bad that this has stalled, but the pitch is not good.

The first problem is the emphasis. I suppose "AAA" means different things to different people. I don't think it has much meaning at all to iOS gamers, and to the Kickstarter set it's possible that it actually has negative connotations. One of the attractions of iOS is that production values are relatively unimportant. I respect that Camouflaj want to raise the bar, but they need to emphasise that the game will actually be fun and not simply "epic".

Another problem is the intended audience. The few big-budget Kickstarter campaigns have targeted gamers who are nostalgic for a particular kind of game. Republique feels like it's from the CD-ROM era of games. This is not a bad thing, of course, but I don't think that there is a yearning for these kind of games on iOS. They need to target the platform where those PC/PSX players are now, whatever that may be. If they want to stick with iOS, then they can't assume that the audience is familiar with "stealth survival".

Then there is the price. I know people can donate whatever they want, but the price of admission is higher than for most iOS games. Kickstarter projects for PC games have priced the game at the low end for that platform. Also, there is probably some price pressure among Kickstarter campaigns making this seems like relatively poor value. But, I guess if the price was lower it would undermine the whole "AAA" thing.

Anyway, aside from all that, put me down for a Vita port beg. I don't own any iOS devices but I am very close to pitching in anyway.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
areal said:
I feel bad that this has stalled, but the pitch is not good.

The first problem is the emphasis. I suppose "AAA" means different things to different people. I don't think it has much meaning at all to iOS gamers, and to the Kickstarter set it's possible that it actually has negative connotations. One of the attractions of iOS is that production values are relatively unimportant. I respect that Camouflaj want to raise the bar, but they need to emphasise that the game will actually be fun and not simply "epic".

Another problem is the intended audience. The few big-budget Kickstarter campaigns have targeted gamers who are nostalgic for a particular kind of game. Republique feels like it's from the CD-ROM era of games. This is not a bad thing, of course, but I don't think that there is a yearning for these kind of games on iOS. They need to target the platform where those PC/PSX players are now, whatever that may be. If they want to stick with iOS, then they can't assume that the audience is familiar with "stealth survival".

Then there is the price. I know people can donate whatever they want, but the price of admission is higher than for most iOS games. Kickstarter projects for PC games have priced the game at the low end for that platform. Also, there is probably some price pressure among Kickstarter campaigns making this seems like relatively poor value. But, I guess if the price was lower it would undermine the whole "AAA" thing.

Anyway, aside from all that, put me down for a Vita port beg. I don't own any iOS devices but I am very close to pitching in anyway.
Click to expand...

I wonder how difficult a Vita port would be. It seems like a natural fit. Unfortunately, the Vita market isn't terribly strong at the moment, so i can't imagine that would be very tempting.


slaughterking said:
I agree, but I'm sure Ryan wants to try something else before (maybe) committing to something drastic like a PC version.
Click to expand...
and by all means he should. I'm just saying that there should be some point before it all falls down that he says, "welp, I don't want to do this but we have to expand to PC/Vita/Whatever". If he can get this done on his own terms, that'd be awesome and he should exhaust all reasonable options towards making that happen. But if that's not going to work, adapt and survive.
 
A

areal

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
I wonder how difficult a Vita port would be. It seems like a natural fit. Unfortunately, the Vita market isn't terribly strong at the moment, so i can't imagine that would be very tempting.
Click to expand...
Probably not difficult. It won't save the game, though. It's just where I would prefer to play something like this.
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
Vyse The Legend said:
They updated the Kickstarter with an interview video. It looks like it resulted in $400 in the past 24 hours.
Click to expand...

I wonder at what point Ryan will start considering making concessions to pragmatism. If he continues down this path he risks being remembered as that guy who thought it was a good idea to gamble his life savings on phone gamers wanting something high budget and creative. Oh well. Assuming he still reads this thread, he can't say that we didn't warn him.
 
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