Well that part I do kind of agree with. I am in the belief that Kickstarter should be reserved for the guy in the basement. I was one of the few that thought the Double Fine one was not the greatest thing in the world.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Republique Kickstarter by Ryan Payton - NOW FOR PC AND MAC! [Ended, $555K funded]
- Thread starter subversus
- Start date
Well that part I do kind of agree with. I am in the belief that Kickstarter should be reserved for the guy in the basement. I was one of the few that thought the Double Fine one was not the greatest thing in the world.
Here's my lengthy editorial on the whole Kickstarter phenomenon on Slide to Play. Republique is discussed:
http://www.slidetoplay.com/story/opinion-a-skeptical-look-at-kickstarter
http://www.slidetoplay.com/story/opinion-a-skeptical-look-at-kickstarter
It's hard (nay, impossible) to be an entrepreneur if you're homeless and/or starving. Get a grip.
To address the question, I'm self-employed. I don't run my own company, but I work for myself. Though I don't see starting up a company being much different in regards to having a monthly living budget, and needing to meet it.
Uncle Dukey
Member
I am curious as to how much money companies like Cave, Capcom, and Square-Enix bring in relative to the cost to produce the games. They price on the high end of the iOS scale (~$10-20) but offer games that originally cost $30 or more on other platforms. I imagine they make enough to justify their porting costs, but are they making enough to actually fund the production of their games rather than just ports? I do see Infinity Blade being thrown around a lot, but I think Square-Enix has also found some success with their Chaos Rings series which is priced in the $10-20 range.
Some of my favorite games on mobile devices are ports of "core" games like Ghost Trick and the Cave shooters so I'm very interested in seeing whether a big budget game specifically made for the platform can succeed.
I think it is tough given the nature of the market of super cheap games. I was happy to pay 40$ (even thought it was cheap!) to import Dodonpachi, but when I saw the same game going for 13$ on iOS I waited for a sale to pull the trigger! Why the difference? Mainly because when I can buy a game like Infinity Blade for $3.00 it makes me question why I am paying 4x as much for a game that surely costs less to make. On the other hand, when the Cave games went on sale, I nearly bought their entire catalogue for less than the cost of buying one of their games on Xbox 360.
There are a lot of factors going against the game's kickstarter.
1. Unknown IP (no nostalgia factor)
2. Not as much "Star Power" (Ryan has notoriety, but not on Doublefine's level)
3. Releasing on a platform that has been trained to expect 99 cent games
4. Targeting half of the mobile market (iOS only) and none of the PC market
But here's why I kicked in 10 bucks:
1. I want to play this game, it sounds fun!
2. I also want to see if there is a market for "core" games that play best on phones and tablets.
3. If this game comes out, maybe it will even help me answer for myself whether I really do want to play an involved MGS/Uncharted type experience on a phone/tablet. Maybe I really will come to the realization that I would have rather played it on a PC!
Best of luck Ryan. I wish you the best and hope the project does succeed. You'll never know unless you try.
Some of my favorite games on mobile devices are ports of "core" games like Ghost Trick and the Cave shooters so I'm very interested in seeing whether a big budget game specifically made for the platform can succeed.
I think it is tough given the nature of the market of super cheap games. I was happy to pay 40$ (even thought it was cheap!) to import Dodonpachi, but when I saw the same game going for 13$ on iOS I waited for a sale to pull the trigger! Why the difference? Mainly because when I can buy a game like Infinity Blade for $3.00 it makes me question why I am paying 4x as much for a game that surely costs less to make. On the other hand, when the Cave games went on sale, I nearly bought their entire catalogue for less than the cost of buying one of their games on Xbox 360.
There are a lot of factors going against the game's kickstarter.
1. Unknown IP (no nostalgia factor)
2. Not as much "Star Power" (Ryan has notoriety, but not on Doublefine's level)
3. Releasing on a platform that has been trained to expect 99 cent games
4. Targeting half of the mobile market (iOS only) and none of the PC market
But here's why I kicked in 10 bucks:
1. I want to play this game, it sounds fun!
2. I also want to see if there is a market for "core" games that play best on phones and tablets.
3. If this game comes out, maybe it will even help me answer for myself whether I really do want to play an involved MGS/Uncharted type experience on a phone/tablet. Maybe I really will come to the realization that I would have rather played it on a PC!
Best of luck Ryan. I wish you the best and hope the project does succeed. You'll never know unless you try.
Guess he could start dealing.
Oh, thanks for listening, man. Those podcasts were a lot of fun. I still can't believe we did 86 of them...
To answer your question, if we don't reach our goal on Kickstarter I'm going to work with my business partner and explore some of the investment offers that have come in from a handful of people since we announced. Some of them seem promising, others seem like they would be very bad deals for us. The point is, I'm committed to this game and this team and will do whatever it takes to ship this game. That being said, without funds from Kickstarter, it's going to be tough.
But the cool thing is that we're just extremely busy here taking in all the feedback from the community on our game and campaign and putting together some interesting stuff to show off. It's going to be a really fun three weeks! Nobody here is giving up. We're listening to you guys.
Please announce a Vita version, Ryan. I probably listened to almost all of those 86 podcasts back in the day. It good to hear that the project isn't dead if it doesn't meet the kickstarter goal. The game looks legitimately good.
I used all my life savings and sold all of my Microsoft stock to get us this far, plus borrowed money from family. I guess you could say I'm getting a 'salary' but my bank account is certainly not growing. I take just enough to pay for rent, car, and food. Everybody else is just scrapping by too, man. Sorry if you think that's not enough sacrifice to justify what we're doing.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Vita version and you would have had $30 from me.
AuthenticM
Member
If only they'd make the game for Android, I would back it. As of now, I do not own an iPhone or iPad, and have no intention to.
No need to be worried, Ignis. I think the game is going to do great on iOS.
With that said, we're listening to the feedback and reevaluating our strategy. More on this soon...
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
I won't pitch in for the Kickstarter until I see you surrounded by pigeons on a street corner holding up a "Will develop for food" sign.
This might seem a little harsh, but aren't Logan infamously expensive? I know you wanted 'AAA', but don't you think aiming at something a little smaller for a first project would have been more responsible?
I'm certainly not going ask how much your stock and savings amounted to, but I don't doubt it was enough to fund a more realistic first iOS project.
I seem to recall on 8-4 you claimed there are actually two games you're working on, is the other smaller, and is it in jeopardy if this falls thru?
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Simply fantastic. Looking forward to hearing more.
jetpacks was yes
Member
Very weird amount of hostility in this thread...
I don't have an iphone either, but I hope this gets made. Are you guys using a proprietary engine? I'm working with Unity right now, and my programmer tells me that it should be relatively easy to get our game ported to multiple devices.
Best of luck, man.
I don't have an iphone either, but I hope this gets made. Are you guys using a proprietary engine? I'm working with Unity right now, and my programmer tells me that it should be relatively easy to get our game ported to multiple devices.
Best of luck, man.
I've worked for GameLoft in the past, and I've worked on console projects before as well.
At GameLoft, team sizes were MUCH larger than what you'd imagine, and budgets probably much much bigger than what you'd also expect. I worked on a project that started in April and ended right at the end of November - and the budget was over $1M. You guys would not believe the size of the team for their flagship FPS title either, and it had outsourced assets too.
I think there are a lot of assumptions being made since it's iOS, but making something of quality takes time, experience and money. Looking at the videos, I am pretty excited to see something ambitious being made. And it looks great too
At GameLoft, team sizes were MUCH larger than what you'd imagine, and budgets probably much much bigger than what you'd also expect. I worked on a project that started in April and ended right at the end of November - and the budget was over $1M. You guys would not believe the size of the team for their flagship FPS title either, and it had outsourced assets too.
I think there are a lot of assumptions being made since it's iOS, but making something of quality takes time, experience and money. Looking at the videos, I am pretty excited to see something ambitious being made. And it looks great too
I've worked for GameLoft in the past, and I've worked on console projects before as well.
At GameLoft, team sizes were MUCH larger than what you'd imagine, and budgets probably much much bigger than what you'd also expect. I worked on a project that started in April and ended right at the end of November - and the budget was over $1M. You guys would not believe the size of the team for their flagship FPS title either, and it had outsourced assets too.
I think there are a lot of assumptions being made since it's iOS, but making something of quality takes time, experience and money. Looking at the videos, I am pretty excited to see something ambitious being made. And it looks great too
Thanks for confirming my assumptions. If Whale Trail and Sword and Sworcery cost over $200,000, I don't see why people questioned me when I said I'm sure Gameloft games had high budgets.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Yeah don't know why people would question you on that.
From the Kickstarter page:
He may believe there's a lack of "real games" or whatever on iOS, doesn't mean he thinks he'll be the first one.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Maybe because when people hear AAA they think of the multi-multi-million dollar projects like GTAIV? Kind of the very top tier of games development, not what smaller publishers, indie companies, eastern european devs, and the like, often amount to on other platforms. Maybe 200k or 2m are very high for iOS development but they're far from what has been dubbed AAA in recent times. In that sense, I don't think there are any such games on iOS. And Republique wouldn't qualify either even if it quadrapled the goal (actually, the same goes for the relatively mega successful PC kickstarted projects that have been hyped recently). It's obviously just used as marketing speak because they happen to look a lot better and more high techy than your average 2-man team's 2D casual apps or whatever, not because they truly fit the description as people have come to use it.
You don't bring up anything that hasn't already been discussed before. Your complaints boil down to
-the people behind the project might not be able to deliver
-the game might take longer than expected to make
Thanks, we know.
The article comes off as extremely defensive.
To add to your point, Gameloft currently employs about 4,000 people (almost twice as many as Take2 Interactive) and their growth is due in large part to the company's success in the iOS / Android market.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
The iOS gaming press has proven itself singularly unworthy of civility in this thread. I used to think that you could go no lower than gaming journalism, but exposure to touch gaming journalism has really opened my eyes.
When you boil it all down, it's a consumer advocacy piece.
You're right in a sense. I am being defensive to ensure that our readers understand Kickstarter, the pros/cons, and the flip side to all the hype behind this particular exciting iOS project that's getting a lot of attention.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Is there anyone who uses Kickstarter who doesn't understand the risk? Do you believe that the site is misrepresenting its purpose, or do you believe that your readers are reckless children? All I see here is a shameful Touch Arcade inspired assault upon crowdsourced funding, dressed up with the pretense of caution.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I think people assume that they will get the product as promised - which, as we know, is not always the case.
DiscoJer
Member
Isn't that the case with virtually everything? Games in particular.
Sure, you might get a game when you buy a disc from a store, but it might be terrible. Brink is a great example of this - almost universally panned by media and gamers, yet somehow it sold 2.5 million copies just on hype and because it was from Bethesda (published) which gives games a bump thanks to their popularity, IMHO.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I'm not even talking about the quality of the product. If you pre-order a game on Amazon or GameStop and the game is cancelled, your card isn't charged. There's no risk in telling the publisher that you're willing to buy their game day-1.
I'm talking about not even getting the product in the first place - which is a distinct possibility.
(Don't forget that they'll have to also make these special edition boxes and posters and t-shirts and whatever else they promise in addition to the game).
I know your questions were rhetorical but I'll answer them anyway.
I teach a course about Business Entrepreneurship to college students each term, and you'd be surprised by the misconceptions that some of these young adults have about what Kickstarter is and is not. Your response may be to belittle them and call them "reckless children," but we can't assume everyone knows everything or combs every question in an FAQ. It's not like Kickstarter has been around for 10-20 years.
I won't even touch your accusation of us following the lead of Touch Arcade. It's so far from reality that it's not even worth further conversation.
Haunted
Member
Harshest burn I've read all week.
Thanks, Mr. Jetpacks.
I don't sense a lot of hostility, just a lot of people with a lot of opinions on what's going on with iOS, Kickstarter, PC, weird analogies involving Facebook and Twitter...
Maybe I'm weird, but I'm having a ton of fun with this campaign. We're not where we wanted to be with the pledges today, but we're going to continue fighting and doing everything we can to listen to the community and be flexible while sticking to our valves (and continue development of the game during all this chaos). It's going to be a fun three weeks.
Oh, and to answer your question, we're on Unity. It's been fantastic.
What? Are you following the thread? People disagreed with me when I said there were lots of $500k and up iOS games in the past, and then they disagreed with me when I said I'm sure Gameloft games had games with budgets higher than $500k. Now you're just moving goalposts to something I never argued.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Well, you did say stuff like "I think Gameloft and its revenues ($25 million in 3 months!) demonstrate there is a huge desire for AAA games" and I'm saying I don't think that's true considering none of their games come close to being AAA products, which their iOS friendly pricing also reflects, regardless of their total revenue. But yes, I wasn't only responding to your post, just because I quoted you, but to the whole AAA discussion which was happening in this thread, starting with Republique itself since its kickstarter basically claims that it's an AAA product. So, yes, I've been following the thread and no, I'm not moving any goal posts, thank you.
Feel free to let me know when Gameloft spends 50 million on a single title and makes that back at least tenfold though.
Feel free to let me know when Gameloft spends 50 million on a single title and makes that back at least tenfold though.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
This is good to hear, as I'm one of the 'negative voices' I still want this game to get made and have success even if I don't understand the near militancy of the single platform choice.
My post was about people questioning whether Gameloft had $500k and higher budgets. I don't see how your response addresses that in any way.
Gameloft advertises their games as being the clones of AAA games. NOVA = Halo, Modern Combat = Modern Warfare, Starfront = Starcraft, City of Saints = GTA, etc. People buy them, and Gameloft's revenue reflects that people are buying, because they want those types of games, not because they want Gameloft games. Is it not illogical to see that there is a desire for AAA games when people are buying lower quality clones left and right? Heck, the fake Nintendo games that pop up from time to time (and rise to top the sales charts) also reflect that there is a desire. The normal pricing is higher than Infinity Blade's normal pricing, and their sale pricing is the same or $2 cheaper than Infinity Blade sale pricing, both Gameloft and Infinity Blade games also use In-App Purchase. People here and on the Kickstarter page call Infinity Blade an AAA iOS game, and are saying that Republique will be an AAA iOS game. When they tell Ryan iOS gamers don't want an iOS game, they are talking about Republique and $1 million budget games. You're either moving goalposts for budgets, or goalposts for what qualifies as an AAA game on iOS.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
No, I'd say you and those people referring to games with small to at best medium budgets as AAA are the ones moving goal posts.
I like that "for iOS" qualifier too, like money is different depending on the platform.
I guess they're AAA if one iOS dollar is 25-50 normal ones.
I don't see how using the popularity of actual AAA products to sell means anything.
If Activision themselves spend a couple millions and release some shoddy Call of Duty Touch for $5 that doesn't mean it's AAA.
Edit: ok that sort of thing has happened with the likes of Mass Effect so there you go. Nope, that's not AAA, sir.
I like that "for iOS" qualifier too, like money is different depending on the platform.
I guess they're AAA if one iOS dollar is 25-50 normal ones.
I don't see how using the popularity of actual AAA products to sell means anything.
If Activision themselves spend a couple millions and release some shoddy Call of Duty Touch for $5 that doesn't mean it's AAA.
Edit: ok that sort of thing has happened with the likes of Mass Effect so there you go. Nope, that's not AAA, sir.
Where do you see in this thread where people are discussing $50 million budgets? People are discussing whether iOS gamers want a $1 million budget game and talking about casual games that have budgets under $100k. You can create your own tangent and say iOS gamers don't want $50 million budget games, but I think it has no relevance to a discussion on the viability of Republique or $500k+ games on iOS.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
seriously, some bitter attention-seekers just love to harp on known personality
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
As I said, I was responding to the AAA stuff, which has been an ongoing discussion with and without your contribution.
I'm not gonna change the known definition because you and others claim $200k-500k-2m budgets equal AAA "for iOS".
And so my first post in this page was explaining this. Those are not the numbers people think of as AAA. I'm sorry reality offends.
Show me where I even made the claim.
I made 2 claims:
1) There are many $500k+ budget games, and they make money.
2) There is an interest in AAA games on iOS, just look at how much money people spend on cheap clones of AAA games.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
So if you don't think any of those products are AAA yourself how could you accuse me of moving "goalposts for what qualifies as an AAA game on iOS"? Well, you can hopefully at least see why there was a misunderstanding now and just go back to defending whatever you want regardless of my quoting you when I wanted to say a few things about what most people think of as AAA.
Not that your 2) there has any real basis since regardless of their immitation they're not AAA products, don't have AAA pricing, and don't have AAA revenue (a single AAA game would have the whole of Gameloft's revenue you cited if successful, though not all would go to the publisher, and revenue isn't what qualifies a product as AAA, or Angry Birds would be considered one too, lol).
Not that your 2) there has any real basis since regardless of their immitation they're not AAA products, don't have AAA pricing, and don't have AAA revenue (a single AAA game would have the whole of Gameloft's revenue you cited if successful, though not all would go to the publisher, and revenue isn't what qualifies a product as AAA, or Angry Birds would be considered one too, lol).
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
Man watching Alextended and numble argue is like Moonlighting, just fuck already!
You would know my feeling about those games because you omitted the rest of the part you quoted me about:
"I think Gameloft and its revenues ($25 million in 3 months!) demonstrate there is a huge desire for AAA games, and people flock to Gameloft because they offer fake AAA games that very few developers offer."
Then you implied I thought they were AAA games for some reason, including asking me to tell you when Gameloft spent $50 million on an AAA game.