Support NeoGAF

[spwolf]

I can make Uncharted look "sterile and lifeless" with selective screenshot grabs too.

Seriously folks, this nitpicking is getting ridiculous.

From what I've seen so far, Resistance 2 will be the best looking PS3 title to date (yes, even better than Uncharted), and is only currently rivaled by Killzone 2.

heh, that proves the point - where the fuck is color in Uncharted?

:lol

 

[patsu]

Why don't you look at my post history before jumping the damn gun. My avatar has no links to which console I affiliate myself with.

All I'm saying is I wish the game had more polish to it. If every area could look as good as Iceland R2 would look amazing. You guys are mindlesly shooting down people who think other wise.

I understand that the video's are compressed but can you honestly say that you can't see that there is a lack of detail in the pics I've posted?

Like I already said I'm getting the game day 1, I'm just dissapointed with how certain aspects have turned out. You're only kidding yourselves if you think that R2 is the best looking game on the console. That title belongs to Uncharted and MGS4.

Not so. I think Uncharted, MGS4 and R2 have their own strength. They are all pushing the envelope in their own ways.


Uncharted's highly detailed look converted Kittonwy into a texture + self shadow monster. No other game I know does that.

MGS4's production value is through the roof. And the cutscenes are ZOMGWTFBBQ. Part of the gameplay + cutscene is also "never-seen-before" innovative.

To me, R2 shows me another level of technical performance. Everything from scale, rendering powess, interactivity are industry leading. A few texture shortfalls don't really take away the shine.

Many other so-called beautiful games can't even get 720p 30fps right (Yes I know R2 has 8 pixels above and below to make things fit in memory, but they just show as thin black bars. The quality remains pristine).

 

[Nafai1123]

sounds like this texture/shadow argument has pretty much dwindled out. All aboard the HYPE TRAIN!!

 

[Dibbz]

You don't seem to be having a hard time not caring that the shot of Master Chief which you picked for your avatar hardly looks like it's been textured either.

kaching
"GAF's biggest wanker"

 

[JaCk BuRtOn]

The best thing we could get is the walktrough by gametrailers in all glorious HD 720p or 1080p in a psn update... but it won't happen

 

[EktorPR]

Thing is, Dibbzy, that there has been a plethora of glowing impressions from the folks who have actually seen it in person. You've only watched the thing through uncompressed videos, so it'd be better if you just shut your mouth about it until you watch it running in your freaking TV screen. Until then.

 

[Fersis]

Guys, R2 is a game ,it moves (and fast) , if you see the game IN MOTION ,you will have no doubt that is gonna be an amazing and fun game.

And some others would delay a game just because they a stair doesnt look good.
Come on,are you gonna see that stair like for 20 minutes ? nope, because theres like 100 enemies on screen shooting at you.

But well, the thread has derailed, see you guys.

 

[Slamo]

Yep, don't feed the trolls please.

He's wrong but he's not a troll.

 

[antiloop]

I agree with Kitton here. The more Self Shadowing the better. Hopefully Insomniac in their great wisdom can spit shine that lighting engine just a bit more before release.

Better framerate over shadows any day. I mean with 100 monsters who cares about their shadows while fighting?

 

[thuway]

You guys are arguing with Master Chief avatars. Think about that for a second.

:lol :lol :lol :lol +1

WinFonda
Full of Win
(Today, 02:15 PM)
Reply | Quote

 

[thuway]

Better framerate over shadows any day. I mean with 100 monsters who cares about their shadows while fighting?

The shadows would be better, but I just want them to have more visceral explosions. Some of the explosions look fantastic, but they whisp away into the air almost immedately. Even than, it looks amazing.

 

[Kittonwy]

Hey guyz wutz goin on. Am I public enemy no. 1 now?

It's not like I'm saying the game doesn't look good because it does, but when you have characters casting shadows one way like the chameleons and you have a bunch of objects in the middle of the level with no shadows at all like those tree stumps it just looks odd. Even if those can't be dynamic shadows, just baked the shadows into the damn level in the right direction, the tall stuff casting real shadows and the short stuff just having baked shadows, same with the bricks in the later part of orick, you don't even need real dynamic shadows for those.

I mean is that too much to ask at this point of development? I don't know. I have no experience in art and no interest in game development but when I look at a level I notice the shadows missing right in the middle, does this affect the gameplay? Heck no. But then having correct shadows does affect the immersiveness of the game, the visuals is all about immersiveness and believability. I'm sure the folks at IG are their own harshest critics.

It's great that people are basically saying "if you don't think this looks great then gtfo", the same could have been applied to people who had suggestions and criticisms on the way the game plays, I do believe this makes for a better overall game for everyone. Maybe the visuals will likely stay the way it is at this point, which is fine although I simply wanted it to be a tad better, that's all. Regardless of the visuals I'm still picking up my pre-order on day one and I'm still going to get other people to play this game this Christmas over fuckwad COD, I want R2 to be THE defacto FPS on the PS3, and NOT Killzone 2, OR SOCOM, OR any COD4 game, EVER. The same way I want UNCHARTED!!!111!!!

to be the defacto action/adventure game on the PS3 over tomb raider, the same way I want Motorstorm 2 to be the defacto arcade terrain racer on the PS3, the same way I want Wipeout HD to dominate its genre over something like Fatal Inertia. I want this game to be the best in everything, but I guess we don't always get what we want.

 

[patsu]

See that's the thing. We agree and yet we disagree on the very same issue. I don't know how to debate with you. Have a beer.

 

[gtj1092]

Do people walk around analyzing shadows in real life. I don't when the last time i even noticed a shadow. You know why cuz i'm trying not to run into walls and people. So I doubt I'll notice any irregularities in the shadows of a game where I'm running and dodging bullets constantly.

 

[antiloop]

Do people walk around analyzing shadows in real life. I don't when the last time i even noticed a shadow. You know why cuz i'm trying not to run into walls and people. So I doubt I'll notice any irregularities in the shadows of a game where I'm running and dodging bullets constantly.

That's our job here on GAF.


Why can't we focus on the things that R2 does great visually. Because it really does some things great.


Oh right, it's a PS3 thread. Forgot. :lol

 

[SaitoH]

Hey guyz wutz goin on. Am I public enemy no. 1 now?

It's not like I'm saying the game doesn't look good because it does, but when you have characters casting shadows one way like the chameleons and you have a bunch of objects in the middle of the level with no shadows at all like those tree stumps it just looks odd. Even if those can't be dynamic shadows, just baked the shadows into the damn level in the right direction, the tall stuff casting real shadows and the short stuff just having baked shadows, same with the bricks in the later part of orick, you don't even need real dynamic shadows for those.

You aren't taking taking the lighting conditions in account. There are plenty of prebaked shadows and lights where appropriate. That includes the stairs Dibbz likes to point out. Look at the scene (light souce, environment), not just a picture.

(Slow day at work)

 

[frankthurk]

It's not like I'm saying the game doesn't look good because it does, but when you have characters casting shadows one way like the chameleons and you have a bunch of objects in the middle of the level with no shadows at all like those tree stumps it just looks odd. Even if those can't be dynamic shadows, just baked the shadows into the damn level in the right direction, the tall stuff casting real shadows and the short stuff just having baked shadows, same with the bricks in the later part of orick, you don't even need real dynamic shadows for those.

Actually, I think in a number of cases the lack of shadow is actually probably correct and the character casting a shadow might be the thing that's wrong. You do realize that if there's a lot of diffuse light vs directional, you aren't going to have shadows. The baked lighting can be more complex and might well be more accurate where the dynamic character shadow casting can't be... so maybe you're barking at the wrong shadow... maybe.

 

[SaitoH]

Actually, I think in a number of cases the lack of shadow is actually probably correct and the character casting a shadow might be the thing that's wrong. You do realize that if there's a lot of diffuse light vs directional, you aren't going to have shadows. The baked lighting can be more complex and might well be more accurate where the dynamic character shadow casting can't be... so maybe you're barking at the wrong shadow... maybe.

You got the point across better than I did. hah

 

[Dibbz]

It's not just the shadows that are bugging me though, it's the detail, or lack of in the enviroment. Even in that Uncharted shot you can see the amount of detail on the rocks and the grass. It's just a really bad screenshot.

I understand totally that there have to be trade off's somewhere but I guess I didn't expect the trade off's to be so obvious.

 

[kaching]

kaching
"GAF's biggest wanker"

Come on, if you want to talk trash about "your disappointment with Insomniac" via nitpicking the visual fidelity of R2 in ways you don't fully understand, you don't seriously think you're going to be let off the hook for that blurry-ass avatar, do you? You aren't selling this desire for unparalleled visual fidelity with that image accompanying every post.

Actually, I think in a number of cases the lack of shadow is actually probably correct and the character casting a shadow might be the thing that's wrong. You do realize that if there's a lot of diffuse light vs directional, you aren't going to have shadows. The baked lighting can be more complex and might well be more accurate where the dynamic character shadow casting can't be... so maybe you're barking at the wrong shadow... maybe.

Yep. Again, it's the irony of getting what they asked for, but not fully appreciating what that means in all cases. These guys demand more complex lighting and shadow routines and then complain when the intersection of those routines produces results they just didn't bank on.

 

[Kittonwy]

Actually, I think in a number of cases the lack of shadow is actually probably correct and the character casting a shadow might be the thing that's wrong. You do realize that if there's a lot of diffuse light vs directional, you aren't going to have shadows. The baked lighting can be more complex and might well be more accurate where the dynamic character shadow casting can't be... so maybe you're barking at the wrong shadow... maybe.

I was standing in a shadow in my bathroom and I waved my right arm over my left arm and I can still haz seen shadowing.

 

[Nizz]

sounds like this texture/shadow argument has pretty much dwindled out. All aboard the HYPE TRAIN!!

Yes...

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I've already stated my opinion that if R2 looked like Uncharted in the shadow/texture department... it would strip the game of it's unique look and feel. If every game HAD to use the same lame techniques to make a shadow just for people to say wow... that's the end of gaming for me. Not every artist paints life-like bark on their trees.... nor should they have to.

Insomniac, nice fucking work. Loving it. Can't wait to play it myself.

 

[nelsonroyale]

the entry of this enemy in the e3 vid looks spectacular:

http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_7863_en.html

 

[GodofWine]

The new trailer on PSN is awesome! (thats all I got...)

 

[JaCk BuRtOn]

I does'nt like katz anymo

I like Katz in dark room with no source of light

 

[Dibbz]

Come on, if you want to talk trash about "your disappointment with Insomniac" via nitpicking the visual fidelity of R2 in ways you don't fully understand, you don't seriously think you're going to be let off the hook for that blurry-ass avatar, do you? You aren't selling this desire for unparalleled visual fidelity with that image accompanying every post.

No idea what you're even going on about here. Do I have to go through some sort of GAF avatar checking procedure before I can stick an avatar on?

What's not to fully understand about textures looking muddy and flat? You say that the Uncharted picture looks terrible but it shows of the awesome texture work put into the enviroment. Not only are there imperfections in the rocks thorough the use of bump mapping but there is also specular maps on to show the rocks are wet. Can't say the same for R2.

Yep. Again, it's the irony of getting what they asked for, but not fully appreciating what that means in all cases. These guys demand more complex lighting and shadow routines and then complain when the intersection of those routines produces results they just didn't bank on.

Is it really much that I expected R2 to rival what other Sony developers have achieved a year earlier?

 

[Facism]

don't harass Dibbz because of his avatar. The guy regularly sits in with the EU GAF MGO clan for Survival and casual TDM games. Leave the self-validating console warrior bullshit out of it.

As it goes though, Dibbz, my only real issue with R2's look atm is the painted-on texturing of some armour, buckles, straps etc. It's like Mr Silent Hill Homecoming's shitty jacket pockets. Everything else is great from my perspective.

Hoping those chameleon enemies are a bit more intelligent in the final game. Invisible enemies running in a straight line towards you? intelligent!

 

[spwolf]

No idea what you're even going on about here. Do I have to go through some sort of GAF avatar checking procedure before I can stick an avatar on?

What's not to fully understand about textures looking muddy and flat? You say that the Uncharted picture looks terrible but it shows of the awesome texture work put into the enviroment. Not only are there imperfections in the rocks thorough the use of bump mapping but there is also specular maps on to show the rocks are wet. Can't say the same for R2.


Is it really much that I expected R2 to rival what other Sony developers have achieved a year earlier?

you do realize how much smaller Uncharted enviroments are compared to R2?

 

[frankthurk]

I was standing in a shadow in my bathroom and I waved my right arm over my left arm and I can still haz seen shadowing.

Do you need me to go take and post a picture of a brick with no shadow? And you know what kitty, you're going to buy R2 and play the hell out of it anyway so shush.

 

[frankthurk]

Hoping those chameleon enemies are a bit more intelligent in the final game. Invisible enemies running in a straight line towards you? intelligent!

Let me let you in on a little secret... we could make the enemies smart enough to kill you every time and then camp you as you respawn... but it wouldn't be much fun. (At least not for the player).

Is it really much that I expected R2 to rival what other Sony developers have achieved a year earlier?

There are trade offs. Did this game also have 60 player multi, a totally separate 8 player coop campaign, and a large variety of weapon and enemies including some building sized?

What's not to fully understand about textures looking muddy and flat?

To note, you're also judging very specific shots out of compressed videos running in a flash player, which isn't really fair to the game or the artists.

 

[SaitoH]

What's not to fully understand about textures looking muddy and flat?

Ok, so now it's about textures and not shadows?

Based on that part of the Orrick "video", ok sure.

 

[kaching]

No idea what you're even going on about here. Do I have to go through some sort of GAF avatar checking procedure before I can stick an avatar on?

If you're going to play full-on graphics whore complaining about "muddy and flat" visuals, absolutely.

What's not to fully understand about textures looking muddy and flat?

What's not to understand about sampling conditions not providing accurate representation? You pick out a single frame of video capture of the game that shows N64 levels of texture blurriness in the ENTIRE scene and that doesn't strike you as maybe just maybe an artifact of the way the video was captured and compressed? You really expect that's what you're going to see in direct-to-eyeball display of the game?

Is it really much that I expected R2 to rival what other Sony developers have achieved a year earlier?

What exactly did other Sony developers achieve last year that exceeds R2 in all aspects of the game or even in the majority of aspects? Scope, volume, detail, etc.

 

[Facism]

Let me let you in on a little secret... we could make the enemies smart enough to kill you every time and then camp you as you respawn... but it wouldn't be much fun. (At least not for the player).

I'm not sure where i've given you the impression I want them as you've stated? No need for what is apparently a condescending comment.

Feel like if they acted like the female assassins in the original Half-Life that would be a tight sweetspot. Glad we can hear them coming.

 

[Dante]

This thread turned into a clusterfuck, but the blog has a new R2 post:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/

 

[FightyF]

Let me explain what I'm talking about.

What makes these pics so good is the use of dynamic shadows.

pics

What makes this picture look bad the shadows and lighting are a complete mess. Just look at the ground. I can't even tell where the light is hitting objects from.

I'm not bashing the game, I'm just expressing my dissapointment in Insomniac.

There's a fallacy in your argument, you are looking for shadows in an area that is covered by one large shadow.

The only lighting that exists there is ambient lighting.

There are things like ambient occlusion yes, and yes some games have it, but for a game the size and scope of Resistance, why would you expect it at all?

 

[a Master Ninja]

The first person to quote this post will have a exclusive Resistance 2 Multiplayer Skin sent to him via PM.

 

[Guled]

The first person to quote this post will have a exclusive Resistance 2 Multiplayer Skin sent to him via PM.

quote?

 

[frankthurk]

I'm not sure where i've given you the impression I want them as you've stated? No need for what is apparently a condescending comment.

Invisible enemies running in a straight line towards you? intelligent!

Not meant to be condescending as much as point out that fun and excitement will always trump making the enemies more 'intelligent'. They should probably wait until you passed then slice you from behind, but that would pretty much suck and it would be a totally different enemy.

 

[Honolulu]

Do people walk around analyzing shadows in real life. I don't when the last time i even noticed a shadow. You know why cuz i'm trying not to run into walls and people. So I doubt I'll notice any irregularities in the shadows of a game where I'm running and dodging bullets constantly.

I do... but it's not a subject I bring up during conversation.
But lightning is a huge part of a game's leveldesign, you can make an environment that initially looks like crap feel really atmospheric and vivid with proper lightning, whether it's dynamic, baked or whatever.




On topic: R2 is shaping up to be quite a meaty game, love the atmosphere in videos I've seen of the Redwood and Iceland environments. I'm not really into Console-FPS but the 8-player coop sounds awesome. GJ Insomniac!

 

[mr_nothin]

Do people walk around analyzing shadows in real life. I don't when the last time i even noticed a shadow. You know why cuz i'm trying not to run into walls and people. So I doubt I'll notice any irregularities in the shadows of a game where I'm running and dodging bullets constantly.

I bet if 2 people walked past each other in the sunlight and 1 guy's shadow was casting in 1 direction and the other 1 had his shadow casting in the other...then you'd notice.
We dont notice things that are right, most of the time.
Things are only jarring when its wrong and out of place.

They have some things right with R2 but alot of stuff wrong.

 

[mr_nothin]

Hoping those chameleon enemies are a bit more intelligent in the final game. Invisible enemies running in a straight line towards you? intelligent!

They said that the PR guys knew exactly where they were coming from.
Unless you're talking about someone (not PR) playing it.

 

[cameltoe]

I bet if 2 people walked past each other in the sunlight and 1 guy's shadow was casting in 1 direction and the other 1 had his shadow casting in the other...then you'd notice.
We dont notice things that are right, most of the time.
Things are only jarring when its wrong and out of place.

They have some things right with R2 but alot of stuff wrong.

Do tell. Whats wrong with R2?

 

[TEH-CJ]

Wow

there are no words for some of you.

 

[Nafai1123]

Can't you guys see the title of this thread?

HYPE THREAD...

HYPE THREAD..

HYPE THREAD

If you guys want to go make an "OFFICIAL SHIT ON R2's SHADOWS AND TEXTURES THREAD" go for it! Otherwise GTFO!!

 

[mr_nothin]

Do tell. Whats wrong with R2?

Lets me find a video...

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Let's nitpick a video of a game that already looks fantastic. That'l show them. Then I will pwn them and laugh in my high chair. Yes, I will cherish this nitpicking!

Seriously, some of you on here. CJ said it, WOW. Enjoy the fucking game.

 

[mr_nothin]

Do tell. Whats wrong with R2?

Ok....
Sooo check this video out.
The part I'm talking about is towards the end of the video when he reaches the town.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/40345.html?type=

I HATE how the textures on the cars look. It reminds me of how they did it in Resistance 1...and I hated alot of the textures in that game too. Everything in that town just looks to flat and muddy. When he zooms in on the soldier walking across the roof...no shadow. The shadows being casted by the cars are pretty bleh.
It looks like those comparison where they have lighting in and they have lighting out.
We see the lighting out picture...where's out lighting IN picture.

I know you guys at Insomniac have worked very hard on the lighting aspect of the engine.
I've seen scenes of R2 with GREAT shadowing and lighting. It's mostly the outdoor levels that dont sit right with me. The forest looks good though.

 

[iceatcs]

WTF but I love that lighting on this gif.

 

[RoboPlato]

WTF but I love that lighting on this gif.

More GIFs, less bitching.