- RetroUSB AVS - Real Hardware HDMI NES Clone Console

Ordered one. Anyone have recommendations on the best controllers to go for? I've only got one surviving original controller, and I want something that's as close to the originals as possible (so no funky designs nor dogbones).

Looks like there's a number of third-party options out there, but no clue which one to pick.
 
StAidan said:
While the NES processor (called the 6502) is still manufactured and used today for many purposes, this particular product (the AVS) doesn't use it. It uses a piece of hardware called a Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA), which is an integrated circuit that can be programmed through firmware to mimic something else.

That's why some folks are referring to the AVS as hardware-based emulation. To some extent that's true, but I think that characterization minimizes the unprecedented accuracy we can expect to see from it.
Click to expand...

That was something rumored for the early projects of RetroVGS, when things looked good, right?

Anyway, a hardware programmed to mimic another hardware is better than a good software emulator running in a fast chip, for NES games?
 
So, is there a write-up somewhere on how this works? Doesn't use NES hardware, but isn't emulation... Am I missing something? How are they achieving 100% accuracy, and how feasible is this for other systems?
 
Chacranajxy said:
So, is there a write-up somewhere on how this works? Doesn't use NES hardware, but isn't emulation... Am I missing something? How are they achieving 100% accuracy, and how feasible is this for other systems?
Click to expand...

The gist of it is software emulating a chip isn't as good as the actual chip because it's trying to map calls to the hardware it's talking to. What they're doing here is taking a programable chip that will kind of clone itself to being like the original chip and that is the main processor. Nothing to map to. I'm trying to simplify the explanation a bit.

Maybe another way to think of software emulator as having a translator/interpretor trying to communicate what someone else is saying to you in another language where as what this is doing is if you skipped the translator and decided to go learn the language yourself. You'll have a higher amount of accuracy in the understanding of what's being said.
 
Harlock said:
That was something rumored for the early projects of RetroVGS, when things looked good, right?

Anyway, a hardware programmed to mimic another hardware is better than a good software emulator running in a fast chip, for NES games?
Click to expand...

Yep, speed is fine. It's still hardware, just programmed to behave like the exact model of 6502 used. If you used a "modern" 6502 the quirks might not be the same, and the FPGA also offers the flexibility to add features that weren't on the original hardware.
 
inner-G said:
Those pics in the OP look way nicer standing still than in motion:

kPtpVVl.jpg
Click to expand...

because LCD blur/slow camera shutter speed is a fault of the console, right? dude.

hell, I'd get equivalent motion blur taking a photo from a framemeister
 
Rich maybe you should add an FAQ to the original post or something that addresses a lot of the common and repeated questions that are coming up?
 
Marty Chinn said:
The gist of it is software emulating a chip isn't as good as the actual chip because it's trying to map calls to the hardware it's talking to. What they're doing here is taking a programable chip that will kind of clone itself to being like the original chip and that is the main processor. Nothing to map to. I'm trying to simplify the explanation a bit.

Maybe another way to think of software emulator as having a translator/interpretor trying to communicate what someone else is saying to you in another language where as what this is doing is if you skipped the translator and decided to go learn the language yourself. You'll have a higher amount of accuracy in the understanding of what's being said.
Click to expand...

Yep, I get that part -- I guess I'm kinda interested in the details of how they're actually achieving that. I think it's really fucking cool that they've made an NES without an NES and eschewed the issues with software emulation in the process.
 
Rich! said:
because LCD blur/slow camera shutter speed is a fault of the console, right? dude.

hell, I'd get equivalent motion blur taking a photo from a framemeister
Click to expand...
Of course you can. Even if you spend hundreds on an NES (or framemeister) to use on a HDTV is still going to look like an NES on a HDTV. People are talking about scaliness and stuff which is ok when it's not moving, but it still looks almost as bad as the original hardware in motion on a HDTV.
 
Well I'd be interested but 720p stopped me when my Famicom through my framemeister can do 1080p.
Would be interested in a 1080 revision should that ever pop up.
 
mr jones said:
The point being is that the market is there. I think it is far larger that folks in game publishing are thinking it is. Anytime someone makes a retro game or console of merit, it sells out QUICKLY. This HDMI NES will be gone within a month or two. It's affordable, it connects to modern tvs, and people already have an established library ready to go.
Click to expand...

Like shit it's affordable. It's a niche luxury item that fits the exact market it's in by a smaller manufacturer that wouldn't need all that much to make back the development and manufacturing of this product. The market still is not viable enough for a large company to go through this sort of thing despite the recent growth.
 
inner-G said:
Of course you can. Even if you spend hundreds on an NES (or framemeister) to use on a HDTV is still going to look like an NES on a HDTV. People are talking about scaliness and stuff which is ok when it's not moving, but it still looks almost as bad as the original hardware in motion on a HDTV.
Click to expand...

what

I'm literally at a loss at what you're trying to say. of course NES games will look like NES games. And that type of motion blur will be exactly the same on any SNES, Mega Drive or Saturn game too.

but you know what? our eyes are not phone cameras.
 
InfiniteNine said:
Well I'd be interested but 720p stopped me when my Famicom through my framemeister can do 1080p.
Would be interested in a 1080 revision should that ever pop up.
Click to expand...

The scene is going to burst wide open over the next couple of years.

One thing I'm sure we'll see is a clone system that outputs 1080p, complete with 960p windowboxed option for artifact-free scaling.
 
SinCityAssassin said:
Like shit it's affordable. It's a niche luxury item that fits the exact market it's in by a smaller manufacturer that wouldn't need all that much to make back the development and manufacturing of this product. The market still is not viable enough for a large company to go through this sort of thing despite the recent growth.
Click to expand...

Yeah. This is affordable when compared to other options in this niche market, but not for the masses. You have people on this forum saying stuff like, and I'm paraphrasing here, "let me know when (insert Wii U or Xbox One) hits $99." This bad boy would need to be like $50-$75 max to interest the masses I think.
 
Talladega Knight said:
Is there any benefit to purchasing one of these rather than spending the $85 or so to hdmi mod my original nes?
Click to expand...
Where do you get an HDMI mod for 85$? Think closer to 185$. And then we're hitting the price of the AVS. I just bought one, despite owning 2 RGB modded Famicom units. Let's see how this compares to the Framemeister.
 
Bah, I'm on the fence about ordering one. Getting an RGB NES seems way more expensive so this might be a better substitute for me.

Might be a silly question but does anyone know if the system closes when playing NA carts? I've only seen pictures of it open.
 
Jockel said:
Where do you get an HDMI mod for 85$? Think closer to 185$. And then we're hitting the price of the AVS. I just bought one, despite owning 2 RGB modded Famicom units. Let's see how this compares to the Framemeister.
Click to expand...

Oh is it that much? I apologize, I thought I'd read somewhere the cost was $85 for an HDMI NES mod. AVS is the way to go for me then.

Edit: I see why I assumed wrong. It was $85 for just the installation of the HDMI kit. The HDMI kit itself is $120 or so.
 
I'm resisting the urge to buy one of these, I already have an RGB AV Famicom on a Sony BVM. But it is my birthday on Wednesday...
 
Conezays said:
Bah, I'm on the fence about ordering one. Getting an RGB NES seems way more expensive so this might be a better substitute for me.

Might be a silly question but does anyone know if the system closes when playing NA carts? I've only seen pictures of it open.
Click to expand...

It does. It only needs to stay open when using famicom carts since they sit upright.
 
mollipen said:
Ordered one. Anyone have recommendations on the best controllers to go for? I've only got one surviving original controller, and I want something that's as close to the originals as possible (so no funky designs nor dogbones).

Looks like there's a number of third-party options out there, but no clue which one to pick.
Click to expand...
They're all crappy. Just buy an original or two now before the price goes up.
 
People not liking the lid design, it's large because it has to fit the FDS RAM cart. Bunnyboy is going for 100% compatibility.

This is years in the making and he's thought of and thrown everything at this system to ensure it works identical to the real thing. It's a passion project.
 
WHAT THE FUCK AM I DOING!!!

I have a order for a Hi-Def NES kit, ordered the NES Mini last month, now have pre-ordered this and i already have an NESRGB (AV Famicom & Frontloader NTSC).....i need to have a word with myself!!!

Shame they weren't able to sort out distribution from somewhere in Europe to help with shipping costs!
 
Lettuce said:
WHAT THE FUCK AM I DOING!!!

I have a order for a Hi-Def NES kit, ordered the NES Mini last month, now have pre-ordered this and i already have an NESRGB (AV Famicom & Frontloader NTSC).....i need to have a word with myself!!!

Shame they weren't able to sort out distribution from somewhere in Europe to help with shipping costs!
Click to expand...

Dang man. That's rough. Well here let me help you out. I'll take that RGB Famicom off your hands to lighten the load ;)

But for reals, I know how that goes lol.
 
I was happy enough with nestopia on a candy cab with an RGB monitor...or so I thought.

pre-ordered

I've been wanting this to happen since I first heard of FPGAs!
 
Just ordered mine. Pretty excited for this. My NES board has some minor corrosion issue that I found after cracking it open to tweak the pins on the connector.
 
Damn, they charge at checkout and not at shipping? Guess I'll wait and hopefully preorders will still be available.
 
Mike Kennedy should've been in touch with these FPGA programmers instead of Sean "Mr. Lee" Robinson. It's like v1 of what the Coleco Chameleon wanted to be.
 
Kobun Heat said:
They're all crappy. Just buy an original or two now before the price goes up.
Click to expand...

As a secondary option—since I get weirded out about using controllers that other people have touched a lot—does anyone think it might be possible to re-wire one of the new controllers Nintendo is releasing for the NES Mini to work as a standard NES controller? Or would a Wii-plug-to-NES-plug be possible perhaps?
 
mollipen said:
As a secondary option—since I get weirded out about using controllers that other people have touched a lot—does anyone think it might be possible to re-wire one of the new controllers Nintendo is releasing for the NES Mini to work as a standard NES controller? Or would a Wii-plug-to-NES-plug be possible perhaps?
Click to expand...
Buy a couple of these (mentioned earlier, the 8Bitdo Retro Receivers), then you'll be able to use them: http://www.play-asia.com/retro-receiver-for-nes/13/70a2f7
 
StAidan said:
While the NES processor (called the 6502) is still manufactured and used today for many purposes, this particular product (the AVS) doesn't use it. It uses a piece of hardware called a Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA), which is an integrated circuit that can be programmed through firmware to mimic something else.

That's why some folks are referring to the AVS as hardware-based emulation. To some extent that's true, but I think that characterization minimizes the unprecedented accuracy we can expect to see from it.
Click to expand...

So the original processor part is still being made? So someone could create a new NES from identical parts? I thought they didn't make them anymore.
 
For those of you wanting controllers that feel like the originals, there's a company based out of Arizona called GamerzTek and they make a reproduction that is 99% identical.

They've made two versions and you're going to want the more recent one. You'll know it's the right one if it actually says "GamerzTek" where "Nintendo" should be instead of nothing at all.

nes_cont1-3.jpg
Click to expand...
I know this because I tested out their clone console. The video is cued up here: https://youtu.be/ahmv6tnRI0U?t=2m6s

But you can buy the controllers alone: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-CLASSIC-NINTENDO-NES-CONTROLLERS-GAMERZ-TEK-/201638194602?hash=item2ef292adaa:g:7WIAAOSwCfdXogIN
 
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