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[aerofx]

Not liking it, maybe there will some good games but there will be a ton of crap that will use it poorly as well... until then..

 

[+Aliken+]

I'm going to stick it to my cock and play all my games with my cock.

hahahaha

...
...
...

-_-'

 

[Gahiggidy]

Its amazing how intuitive this thing ought to be to pick up and play. One button and a triger is all yoiur fingers have to memorize... the rest of the movement taken car of by your arm (Is there anybody who does NOT know how to wave a stick or point a gun??). It'll be the great equalizer between experienced and new players.

Now even your own Mother has a chance at beating you on Nintendo. :lol

 

[fugimax]

Kojima thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread.

YOU SHOULD TOO.

 

[DEO3]

Some attachments are easy to think up, like the analog controller for FPSers, or a wheel for racing games:

But what kind of attachment could be used for fighting games?

Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way, instead of trying to figure out how we'll play all these old and stale genres on the Revolution, we should instead be thinking of all the new and interesting genres the Revolution will be creating.

 

[John Harker]

When holding it normaly the user has to shift their other hand up and down on the controller. This is a nonsense system and is forcing the player to do way more work than is really necessary.

Hmm, guys you do know that the small a and b buttons on the controller arent used normally, right?

those are the same buttons (same functions) as the giant A button and the B trigger on the back.

They are there when you hold the controller at a 90 degree angle and have the D-bad on your left thumb, and the a and b buttons for your right thumb, its the exact set up as an old school NES controller.

So you arent "moving your right hand up and down the controller," as it stays stationary with the thumb over the A button and a slight jump up to use the d-pad (no different then going frmo the b button to the x or y button on the wavebird, im sure)

And you can still tilt using it NES-style, its just for people who wanna use two hands and retro gaming

But I'm sure we already discussed this.

 

[BorkBork]

Funny, I just had a conversation with my mom about why she doesn't play games. She said with a controller, she doesn't have the left and right hand coordination needed to control a game. For me as a gamer, I've had years and years of practice to intuitively grasp a controller, whereas it is completely foreign to her. I showed her the video and she just said, "so what I do with the controller shows up on the screen? well THAT I can do!"

I rue the day when my mom kicks my ass in a video game. :lol

 

[Mallrat83]

Kind of makes you think now about why Nintendo Pennant Chase Baseball has slipped off the radar. What do you think are the chances it's being retooled/enhanced for Revolution to make use of the Rev controller's features? Now you actually have to swing the bat and throw pitches. Fuckin' sweet the Revolution is going to be.

 

[DEO3]

Kind of makes you think now about why Nintendo Pennant Chase Baseball has slipped off the radar. What do you think are the chances it's being retooled/enhanced for Revolution to make use of the Rev controller's features? Now you actually have to swing the bat and throw pitches. Fuckin' sweet the Revolution is going to be.

Perhaps Zelda was delayed so it could make use of some of the Revolution's features as well.

 

[Mallrat83]

Perhaps Zelda was delayed so it could make use of some of the Revolution's features as well.

Yea but I'm think NPCB has become an actual Revolution title, as opposed to a GC game that's Revolution enhanced.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

Funny, I just had a conversation with my mom about why she doesn't play games. She said with a controller, she doesn't have the left and right hand coordination needed to control a game. For me as a gamer, I've had years and years of practice to intuitively grasp a controller, whereas it is completely foreign to her. I showed her the video and she just said, "so what I do with the controller shows up on the screen? well THAT I can do!"

I rue the day when my mom kicks my ass in a video game. :lol

I have a strong feeling there's gonna be old timers(aka old people) kicking the shit out of gamers for the simply reason they have better dexterity that most young people. Wood carvers, hand painters, etc.

The skill is going to change from eye/hand coordination to having dexterity. Probably why the head hanchos(aka old people) wanna change things.

 

[DumbNameD]

I don't like the idea of making quick response things like jumping a gyro/motion based thing. Gamers are used to being able to make that stuff happen with twitch reflexes. Don't fuck with that and instead blend the new controller with old gaming sensabilities. Using toggled gyro for looking around corners and whatnot though would be a good idea.

I would agree with that. It's possible to make jump = A and use B + Tilt Up = reload since reload isn't a precision thing. The trigger and button assignments could be swapped to whatever, depending on what makes sense to the developer/game. Of course, I have no idea about what's actually possible movement- and accuracy-wise, but it seems like it could work.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

I would agree with that. It's possible to make jump = A and use B + Tilt Up = reload since reload isn't a precision thing.

THAT would make this controller a gimmick.

 

[xexex]

does anyone know the complete set of technologies in the controller? what company is behind it, how it works, etc

 

[radrelic]

My first reaction to the controller was one of confusion.
After reading the articles, and just wrapping my head around the whole concept, I think it's brilliant!

I can't wait for Revolution, fuck the haters.


If I was an investor, Nintendo would be on my radar right about now.

 

[..pakbeka..]

Kojima thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread.

YOU SHOULD TOO.

um, link? sauce?

 

[Gahiggidy]

does anyone know the complete set of technologies in the controller? what company is behind it, how it works, etc

Good ?

 

[Warm Machine]

it would have created a "complete" controller by default thus negating any real use for gyros outside of gimmicky games.

So what. It still gives designers the option to use it or not, just like how an analogue stick was initially an option for developers that later was embraced.

hypotehsis without having actually used one, which practically no one on this board has.

Its OBVIOUS it would work that way! Pick up a remote control, pitch it sideways and feel for yourself.

umm.. no, it's because that is how they were created. As a user of the RPG controller, I can promise you a controller does not require two hands by default.

Of course it doesn,t but the added stability the other hand offers in other types of games is important.

what is the problem with this comparison? Oh yea, you are holding a whole console controller in one hand, not a partial controller ergonomically designed to be held by one hand with only one stick and two buttons.

Didn't I say mentally account for the weight? Your left wrist is going to be doing most of the work to stabalize the analogue because you fingers in your hand are going to be pressing forward and side to side with it putting physical momentum to the controller.

seriously.. how much are you thinkg this thing is going to weigh?

Not much.

if you watch the videos, you would see a lot of things done while holding the controller in non-traditional ways. a conductor's baton, a fishing pole, a wand, a baseball bat. Can you figure ways to comfortably do that with a typical controller and gyros? Could you comfortably swing a typical controller like a baseball bat? Or wave it like a wand? And actually in those cases two hands would mess you up even more.

Yeah, you could depending on the design. Fact is the thing would never have needed to be designed like a remote, it could have a more traditional look but with a shell designed to account for that style of control.

why are you stabilizing two things? Who cares if the non-motion sensitive one is stabilized? Especially if it only weighs a couple ounces, seriously, who cares? And again, if the controller only weighs a few ounces, I really can't see this thing causing any major stress.. I mean I think the wavebird is fairly heavy and there are no issues there.

You're right, but a wavebird is still lighter than a regular GC controller (as it lacks a rumble) and can sit near your lap and both of your hands are kept elevated and near to your body for more stability.

i.e. I want my games to remain the same and am against innovative ways to control games.

Once again, this comes down to the designer. A gyro adds very little to a game that could otherwise be accomodated by an analogue stick or other input method. Just like 2 screens on a DS adds nothing that couldn't have been done with 1 larger screen.

look at the video. if you haven't seen the video you really need to. If you have seen the video and really feel this way, well... you are a creatively stiffled individual to put it politely.

Seriously, something like Nintendogs could just as easily be played with an analogue stick and a button toggle instead of a touch pad and a pen. I've seen the video and it simply confirms it. Every game they allude to using it for can simply be played the same way with a conventional control. Really, if you think you are going to jump up from behind your chair to shoot someone in the face with a remote controller you are only fooling yourself.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

that looks smooth and I like what DEO3 posted even better

but you guys forgot one thing

That remote controller is tiny

those photos did not do it justice see the Iwata's Keynote and when he holds it 30 minutes in
it is SMALL so that steering wheel is too small

http://www.irwebcasting.com/050916/03/ff3672f7df/index.html

 

[fugimax]

um, link? sauce?

Watch the webcast of the keynote.

 

[jman2050]

Seriously, something like Nintendogs could just as easily be played with an analogue stick and a button toggle instead of a touch pad and a pen. I've seen the video and it simply confirms it. Every game they allude to using it for can simply be played the same way with a conventional control. Really, if you think you are going to jump up from behind your chair to shoot someone in the face with a remote controller you are only fooling yourself.

You've gotta be bullcrapping me...

And you wonder why everyone isn't a game designer :lol

 

[bigNman]

I am a bit confused about controls for a FPS!

How would you turn your character left or right? With a mouse you lift if off the table and move it across again to turn around. On the DS you lift the stylus and then drag it acoss again. But with Revolution Im not sure how you would handle turning.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

If it will punch your balls of to the extreme, I'll buy.
But, at the moment I can't see this being innovative like a DDR Dancepad or the EyeToy.

 

[Warm Machine]

You've gotta be bullcrapping me...

And you wonder why everyone isn't a game designer :lol

That goes both ways. You are thinking the only way to play these games is with a controller like this, I'm arguing that it isn't.

 

[909er]

THAT's the revolution? I wasn't aware making a freaking remote was a revolution. And how are 3rd parties supposed to port games to the Rev with a controller like that?

 

[koam]

THAT's the revolution? I wasn't aware making a freaking remote was a revolution. And how are 3rd parties supposed to port games to the Rev with a controller like that?

Jesus man, did you even read anything about it? It's a 3D space mouse.

 

[DEO3]

I am a bit confused about controls for a FPS!

How would you turn your character left or right? With a mouse you lift if off the table and move it across again to turn around. On the DS you lift the stylus and then drag it acoss again. But with Revolution Im not sure how you would handle turning.

I was wondering about this too.

Perhaps if you move the crosshair to the edge of the screen, the screen will then turn in that direction, similar to moving the cursor in RTS games to the edge of the screen in order to scroll in that direction? Or it could have a type of sensitivity acceleration, where the quicker flick the controller, the more you turn in that direction.

 

[..pakbeka..]

Watch the webcast of the keynote.

is there a transcript of that quote? I don't really want to watch 50 minutes of video just to see one quote

 

[radioheadrule83]

Using the wand alone, without the analogue stick or without this "shell" attachment Jim Merrick spoke of --- that isn't mandatory.

With Revolution you've got control OPTIONS. Very good options at that. I've never seen anything do what that remote-style thing does.

This really is better than anything I thought they'd do.

 

[jman2050]

That goes both ways. You are thinking the only way to play these games is with a controller like this, I'm arguing that it isn't.

Tell me what the equivalent control scheme for the movement capabilities of the controller is. As has been stated many times, two analog sticks aren't enough to replicate it. What's your solution?

 

[909er]

Jesus man, did you even read anything about it? It's a 3D space mouse.

So what, it's like a lightgun kind of?

 

[jman2050]

So what, it's like a lightgun kind of?

A lightgun on steroids. Read about it, we don't like repeating ourselves hundreds of times.

 

[..pakbeka..]

I was wondering about this too.

Perhaps if you move the crosshair to the edge of the screen, the screen will then turn in that direction, similar to moving the cursor in RTS games to the edge of the screen in order to scroll in that direction? Or it could have a type of sensitivity acceleration, where the quicker flick the controller, the more you turn in that direction.

that's basically what you're doing with the mouse, you just lift it because of the limited space on the table, that problem won't exist on the rev

 

[Raymond]

 

[borghe]

So what. It still gives designers the option to use it or not, just like how an analogue stick was initially an option for developers that later was embraced.

analog stick was embraced because it was a relatively minor deviance from the dpad. still the same control only using analog movement instead of digital. this is entirely different. much like it has taken forever for the DS to be used in any signficant way outside of nintendo, this would be even worse.

Its OBVIOUS it would work that way! Pick up a remote control, pitch it sideways and feel for yourself.

I am not referring to how it would work, I am referring to the supposed compexity. also, the only real "game" buttons holding it like a remote are A and B, which are both available without sliding your hand all over the place.

Of course it doesn,t but the added stability the other hand offers in other types of games is important.

really? because I play all kinds of games on my phone (even fighting ones) with only one hand. my stability doesn't seem to be out of whack.

Didn't I say mentally account for the weight? Your left wrist is going to be doing most of the work to stabalize the analogue because you fingers in your hand are going to be pressing forward and side to side with it putting physical momentum to the controller.

again see cell phone games. and before you argue about the quality of cellphone games, let me just say I am talking about the control only. plenty of games where I have frantic joystick action going on and no problems with the fact that I'm not holding it like a typical controller.

Yeah, you could depending on the design. Fact is the thing would never have needed to be designed like a remote, it could have a more traditional look but with a shell designed to account for that style of control.

how the hell are you going to comfortably swing an xbox or dual shock 2 like a baseball bat? or use them like a knife to cut?

You're right, but a wavebird is still lighter than a regular GC controller (as it lacks a rumble) and can sit near your lap and both of your hands are kept elevated and near to your body for more stability.

again with the stability. I don't even get how you would think this is an issue? one handed gaming has been around for a long time. this isn't the first. it IS possible and has been done gracefully.

Once again, this comes down to the designer. A gyro adds very little to a game that could otherwise be accomodated by an analogue stick or other input method. Just like 2 screens on a DS adds nothing that couldn't have been done with 1 larger screen.

wow. you just missed the two primary concetps of the DS. The DS isn't cool because it has a second screen. It has a second FULL SIZE FULL RESOLUTION screen. You can just make a bigger screen. I mean you would have literally needed to fit the two screens together, which IMHO would have made for a pretty unwieldly device. not to mention you completely left out the touch screen.

but aside from ds, being able to move the device in a 3d space is COMPLETELY different from analog sticks. you are no longer dragging with a return to center stick put acurately pointing much like a mouse. it also responds to tilt and forward backward meaning you have an extra four directions not recognized by an analog stick. sure you could accomodate that with a second analog stick (much like is done now) but this is all controlled with one hand leaving your other hand open for entirely different things. essentially nintendo just combined dual analog into one "stick" so to speak. that is pretty big.

Seriously, something like Nintendogs could just as easily be played with an analogue stick and a button toggle instead of a touch pad and a pen.

yeah, and you could play FPS games on the SNES dpad. but they weren't as fun. touchscreen on nintendogs is incredibly intuitive. porting that to dual analog would lose much of that simplified learning curve. flicking the stylus on the screen is entirely different than flicking a springloaded analog stick which will return to center and has very limited travel.

I've seen the video and it simply confirms it. Every game they allude to using it for can simply be played the same way with a conventional control. Really, if you think you are going to jump up from behind your chair to shoot someone in the face with a remote controller you are only fooling yourself.

you are kidding. you can conduct a symphony with a standard controller that actually feels like you are using a baton? you can actually move through a FPS just like you are moving through real life with a gun with a dual analog? you can cast and set a fishing pole like you would in real life with a dual analog?

really, your comments are coming off strongly anti-whatever here. I won't say anti-nintendo without cause, but your resistance to something that seems almost like a natural evolution in gaming controls just makes you seem like a luddite.

 

[909er]

A lightgun on steroids. Read about it, we don't like repeating ourselves hundreds of times.

I don't like reading 1000's of posts. So it's a remote that acts like a lightgun.

I'm gonna say that Nintendo is gonna be far behind the competition with Rev.

 

[jman2050]

I don't like reading 1000's of posts. So it's a remote that acts like a lightgun.

I'm gonna say that Nintendo is gonna be far behind the competition with Rev.

In other words, you don't feel like informing yourself about the subject and instead make sweeping generalizations about something that you know almost nothing about? Yeah, I'd certainly take the opinion of someone who takes that seriously. >_>

 

[fugimax]

As requested, here's what Kojima said in the keynote..

"You've done it was my impression. This was totally unexpected. I was pleasantly surprised because the controller is quite comfortable yet provides something brand new. Famicom defined the modern controller. It made us control games using the A and B buttons, holding the controller with both hands, and facing the TV monitor. We have been doing this for 20 years and this practice will now be changed significantly. Even though it was a surprise to me at first, once i touched the controller I quickly understood how it could be used. Much like a controller for your TV."

 

[Mallrat83]

I don't like reading 1000's of posts. So it's a remote that acts like a lightgun.

I'm gonna say that Nintendo is gonna be far behind the competition with Rev.

I'm going to say that you're an idiot. Both for that last statement and the fact you can't just nosy on over to IGN or 1up or Gamespot and read all the information known so far on the Rev controller on the front fucking page.

 

[Fuzzy]

is there a transcript of that quote? I don't really want to watch 50 minutes of video just to see one quote

You don't have to watch the whole thing, just jump to 38:38 for the start of the developer comments.

 

[borghe]

That goes both ways. You are thinking the only way to play these games is with a controller like this, I'm arguing that it isn't.

the question isn't if it is the only way. the question is what is the best way. like I said, they put Doom on the SNES, but it sure as hell wasn't much fun.

they've had fishing games on the consoles forever, but none were as fun as the ones on the DC with the fishing controller.

played an RTS on a console lately?

in many games, implementing this type of a control will be 100 times more intuitive than your typical dual shock controller. the same way implementing many things on the DS (kirby canvas curse, nintendogs) has taken advantage of the control scheme available to it. could you do kirby on dual analog? sure. would it control anywhere near as perfect as the DS? not on your life.

I am not saying this controller should go and replace all next gen controllers. But if you think dual analogs are capable of doing everything this is to the same degree of responsiveness and intuitiveness, well, you either aren't very imaginitive in coming up with things for this controller or you are being incredibly closed minded about the potential.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

E3 2006 can't come soon enough

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

I just had a thought. Remember how mario shunshine was supposed to be all "OMGWTFBBQMEGATON" and then dwindled to the backpack?


I think they had this planned as a peripheral FOR mario shunshine, like bundled.

 

[909er]

I'm going to say that you're an idiot. Both for that last statement and the fact you can't just nosy on over to IGN or 1up or Gamespot and read all the information known so far on the Rev controller on the front fucking page.

Oh I'm sorry. Let me revise my last statement to your liking then.

OMG OMG OMG NINTENDO KICKZ ASSERZ!!!!!

I'm sorry I don't have anything positive to say about it(forgot that anything Nintendo related need it's ass kissed). But not everybody agrees that a freaking remote is a revolution. 3D mouse or whatever or not. It looks really uncomfortable to use, aesthetics aside. And too few buttons too.

 

[RepMovSB]

I think this has a lot of potential.

2 Points:

First,

People keep saying "but it can't do fighting games". I disagree, and actually think that this genre is ripe for "revolution".

The traditional method of expanding the move set beyond basic punches, kicks and blocks is through combos. If you mentally take a step back and try to forget all the games you are familiar with, you may notice that pressing a sequence of buttons in some defined order when you are in the correct position to pull off a special move is extremely contrived.

For example, I'm no game designer, but I thought of the following method of firing a fireball...

Sharply flick the remote up and back to begin charging.
Quickly shake the unit to build up charge (a la track and field) possibly needing some aspect of correct timing to get full power.
Sharply flick forwards to fire.

Kinda intuitive I feel.

I hope that Capcom does an "all new controls" version of Street Fighter. It could be awesome and not more endless milking.

Second,

A few of people have mentioned that the additional analog stick peripheral would be better cordless. A lot of people have mentioned "tired arms".

Given that one of the sites with impressions mention that the device is sensitive, and that once they stopped waving it around and rested it comfortably against their leg they got on better, I feel that the cord may actually be a benefit.

I can imagine sitting on the couch with each part of the controller in separate hands with the cord kinda draped over a leg and taking the weight off my arms. Obviously this relies on the build quality of the connecters etc being good, but this is one thing that Nintendo never seems to have problem with.

 

[Diffense]

Yeah, in fighting games 'sequence of button presses' translates pretty straightfordwardly to 'sequence of hand motions' (gestures).

 

[Deleted member 1235]

I just watched the webcast and it got me a lot more pumped for it. the FPS stuff looks like it might be really good. If this controller really is great for FPS (and by great I mean actually revolutionary), that might help out nintendo in america bigtime. I think Iwata convinced me on it.

what does the controller do when it's not pointing at the screen? How does it know where it is if you swing it around everywhere?

 

[Shao]

I was wondering, how the hell could that squash game in the demo be any good? It doesn't even seem feasible for 2 people to use one screen to play squash whilst using the stick as a racket.

Is the ball flying towards the screen only to be wacked back? Are they controlling characters on screen (doesn't look like it) ?

First thought is something like this: you hold a baseball bat and watch the screen, a ball flies towards you and you hit it at the right moment and it flies depending on how you struck it. In practice this doesn't seem feasible. Where is the point of impact? how do you gauge direction since there is distance between you and the TV etc.

Only way I can see this working is if your swing simply replaces the standard baseball action where you press a button. All you have to do is time it right, perhaps power will be gauged by speed of swing or something, but certainly there will be no aiming or anything like virtual reality. Basically first person perspective potential is less than I first thought (not including FPS).

 

[johns all like]

the main word for this controller, i think, is intuitive. although the idea may sound crazy, once you pick it up, it just feels natual, and bringing that to video games sure does beat selling clothes and skate parks that my girlfriend made.

 

[Red Scarlet]

I'm still trying to figure out how one can comfortably play with the dpad and the big A and big B buttons with one hand. My thumb doesn't move like that to be able to hit A quickly..and A+ anything without the dpad is out of the question.

Sharply flick the remote up and back to begin charging.
Quickly shake the unit to build up charge (a la track and field) possibly needing some aspect of correct timing to get full power.
Sharply flick forwards to fire.

That so makes me think of that Activator thing or whatever.

Go Activator 2!