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[Erevador]

This is a massive problem on the entire internet right now, it's deranging our public discourse.

People immediately go for the most incendiary stance because it will get them the most attention and response. They get a hit from every bit of engagement they get. They're trying to make a comment that "kills."

It is exhausting. There is no sense of proportion, just the desire to gain some kind of fleeting, meaningless "prestige" through online attention.

And the quickest way for someone with no platform or power to get attention is to attack someone or something that people know well. The reflected glory can bounce onto the attacker and make them feel empowered as they dig the knife in.

This mindset is wrecking the internet. It is in an advantaged stage on places like Twitter, but GAF isn't free of it either.

 

[MindGamingMantis]

I love NeoGaf and it's my favorite website of all time...

But still....

This is the INTERNET... you gotta have strong skin and remember that almost everybody on the Internet is anonymous and that the tone of a comment can be totally weird and bizarre and harsh as hell sometimes.

And NeoGAF is largely a positive website that encourages discussion and not everybody is gonna like the same thing.

Eh, I disagree. A lot of discussions result in modbot closed topics, echochambers and hyperbolic hate mongering over the dumbest of shit. Great site with lots of useful information, but the conversations are turds and full of logical fallacies.

 

[Omnistalgic]

I love NeoGaf and it's my favorite website of all time...

But still....

This is the INTERNET... you gotta have strong skin and remember that almost everybody on the Internet is anonymous and that the tone of a comment can be totally weird and bizarre and harsh as hell sometimes.

And NeoGAF is largely a positive website that encourages discussion and not everybody is gonna like the same thing.

Yeah....no.

Neogaf is a great aggregate...it works for me because I subscribe to different communities, if you are just checking the first three random pages everyday, i'd say it can get pretty hostile and fayboyish.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

What if I think Gearbox and Randy Pitchford are forces of net ill?

Pitchford definitely, not sure about Gearbox as a whole lol

But even then, some people take it way too far/seriously.

 

[Qblivion]

Telling someone to have thicker skin seems real fucking vile to me. You are basically telling them to stop experiencing emotions the way that they do. Imagine if I shat on your desk and called you a baby for finding it gross.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

I mean I'd expect the guy to have been crying about Sony pulling out of their project so rapidly it made his head spin but sure, I guess an internet messageboard is a pretty good ol' mean scapegoat when you still have to play nicey nice to even appear on all platforms.

The fanboy levels in this post are through the roof.

 

[humansarehorses]

Wait, wait, hold on a sec, modbot. Can someone help out our friend?


General commentary:

-Should probably be talking about your two whole day cry with your therapist and not Edge Magazine. Also sounds like it would be pretty cathartic in any case. Did you emerge from your cocoon of tears a brave new boy new ready to face your first actual challenges in life? I bet you did! You're quite welcome.

-Criticism or accusation on a video game message board about a creative work triggering a traumatic psychological event from the creative director does not constitute contradictory evidence against the criticism or accusation. In other words, NeoGAF's not Bad Monster Who Is Wrong because of this guy's tears. That's an appeal to pity, not a rebuttal to anything he read.

-NeoGAF is actively moderated and we don't very much tolerate personal attacks, hate speech, and unsubstantiated claims. What we don't police, however, is someone not liking a thing you like or you liking a thing someone else doesn't like. If you keep it civil, don't drag a thread down around your own ego (unless you're me, *wink*, *thread unlock*), and back up your positions, and you're not just being inflammatory for the sake of it, then things are probably operating as intended. If you're uncomfortable with your favorite game or favorite developer-turned-god being criticized, go have yourself a good cry and head elsewhere.

-Despite someone having a breakdown here and there, or someone making a public exit some other time, or whatever a blowhard on Twitter says, the industry and the press follow NeoGAF pretty closely, and most industry folks are totally chill about the site. A lot of indies have expressed love and appreciation for the organic exposure they've gotten here that helped bring their projects to the spotlight on their own merit and thank me that NeoGAF exists and remains an independent entity where that can actually happen, and at the other end of the spectrum lots of AAA studios have taken notes on issues highlighted here and acknowledged and appreciated feedback, even very harsh feedback.

Most creatives figure out how to cope with criticism of their work and adjust accordingly. Some enjoy engaging directly on social platforms and can ignore any random trolls that might drive by, some watch from the sidelines to varying degrees, some ignore what the internet has to say entirely.

Someone compulsively chose to read the accumulated criticism of their thing in one go and cried afterwards. After serious and lengthy deliberation I have decided...not to shut down NeoGAF in response to this news. Thanks!

There's so much garbage in this post.

Did you emerge from your cocoon of tears a brave new boy new ready to face your first actual challenges in life? I bet you did! You're quite welcome.

This is the typical asinine and curt behavior he's referencing. There's no reason to act like an asshole to someone who isn't. There is plenty of reason to act like one to someone who is like you are right now.

Criticism or accusation on a video game message board about a creative work triggering a traumatic psychological event from the creative director does not constitute contradictory evidence against the criticism or accusation.

Feel free to point out where he said that. Or maybe that's just your poor reading comprehension talking.

NeoGAF is actively moderated and we don't very much tolerate personal attacks, hate speech, and unsubstantiated claims.

But apparently you tolerate putting words in people's mouths.

and most industry folks are totally chill about the site.

Hey, look, an unsubstantiated claim. Are you going to tolerate it?

 

[watershed]

In my experience neogaf has been a far tamer community than other forums I've read/been a part of. But at the same time, gaf doesn't comment on my job performance on a daily basis. I'd probably cry to if my every move was torn to shreds with glee and misinformation.

 

[chillybright]

This one and the switch pricing thread are the only two times I heard about Rime on GAF. Neither has barely any to do with the actual game. Lol.

 

[Not]

Telling someone to have thicker skin seems real fucking vile to me.

Yup.

It's like, did you just crawl out of the 1940's and register for a GAF account

 

[DangerMouse]

Not gonna say that this forum isn't overreacting, but what was he expecting when he openly lied about the state of his pretty hyped game.

Also what did he expect from the Internet.

Yeah we definitely do overreact a lot, but while I think many were definitely hard on them it's also true that it wasn't entirely without cause at the time, plus IPs getting suddenly getting bought back like this one did (let alone from one of the first parties like Sony/Nintendo/MS) are so extremely rare that it wasn't surprising that it raised a bunch of eyebrows at the time.

That said, I guess the dev didn't read the later thread the last time the game was shown again because there were still plenty of very hyped people in there and many posted so even after being hard on the dev before.

Before the price issue came up of course.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Telling someone to have thicker skin seems real fucking vile to me. You are basically telling them to stop experiencing emotions the way that they do. Imagine if I shat on your desk and called you a baby for finding it gross.

I have to agree. Some people are more sensitive than others and I think to an extent we should cherish that difference, not condemn people for being different. As I mentioned before it takes a ton of emotional toll putting together an indie game, more than I think many in this thread (who seem so tough when it's all hypothetical for them) could stand.

Whether or not you care about if it's port begging is kind of irrelevant. Most forums have rules, and people follow them. If you have a problem with it, shoot it over to the mods. I don't think there's a conspiracy, just you being frustrated that they didn't like your thread.

Otherwise, there are plenty of places that would allow that thread.

Speaking of which, I think the TOS or this thread below should be updated with a few things that are de facto rules / expected etiquette, but aren't actually written down anywhere I can find.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=428781
Things that I couldn't find there or in the TOS (although I might have missed them):
- Port begging.
- Double posting.
- Thread whining.
I think it would make juniors' lives easier if they had a consolidated reference for all that stuff. It feels obvious to us but it's really GAF culture tha newcomers often don't know about.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Telling someone to have thicker skin seems real fucking vile to me. You are basically telling them to stop experiencing emotions the way that they do. Imagine if I shat on your desk and called you a baby for finding it gross.

I'd report you to the cops or shit. I wouldn't be too emotional about it, you'd probably have bigger things to worry about like going to jail and shit.

Listen, I think people should respect people and generally be nice to one another. I try to do that in my life every day. I'm an optimist for crying out loud! However, getting too worked up over words exchanged in the internet could be a symptom of a disease that needs treatment. Thinking it's just about people being assholes is disingenuous, if you get really upset because people said stupid things on the internet you don't need a nicer world. Chances are you need therapy.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Man wait till he sees the review thread

 

[Wedzi]

He should delete his twitter and facebook if gaf causes him to cry for two days straight

Spoiler

returns to crying because always on gaf

 

[Saucycarpdog]

I'd report you to the cops or shit. I wouldn't be too emotional about it, you'd probably have bigger things to worry about like going to jail and shit.

Listen, I think people should respect people and generally be nice to one another. I try to do that in my life every day. I'm an optimist for crying out loud! However, getting too worked up over words exchanged in the internet could be a symptom of a disease that needs treatment. Thinking it's just about people being assholes is disingenuous, if you get really upset because people said stupid things on the internet you don't need a nicer world. Chances are you need therapy.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

I'd report you to the cops or shit. I wouldn't be too emotional about it, you'd probably have bigger things to worry about like going to jail and shit.

Listen, I think people should respect people and generally be nice to one another. I try to do that in my life every day. I'm an optimist for crying out loud! However, getting too worked up over words exchanged in the internet could be a symptom of a disease that needs treatment. Thinking it's just about people being assholes is disingenuous, if you get really upset because people said stupid things on the internet you don't need a nicer world. Chances are you need therapy.

I think people needing to act like assholes online is more of a mental disorder than those who take things to heart online. Some people just don't have the ability to ignore it, but the true issue stems from those who simply can't be civil online.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Telling someone to have thicker skin seems real fucking vile to me. You are basically telling them to stop experiencing emotions the way that they do. Imagine if I shat on your desk and called you a baby for finding it gross.

There are some things in life you need to have a thick skin about though. Maybe those things don't include someone pooping on your furniture, maybe they do include being able to handle commentary about your own creative work.

I would say for example as a schoolteacher you probably need to have thick enough skin to realize you're in charge and what the kids think of you shouldn't make you feel bad.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Not long ago, a GAFer (I think it was Morrigan Stark) said they'd wish ignoring a poster also stopped you from seeing their shitty posts when someone else quoted them. Right now I would also wish for that.

 

[watershed]

I think people needing to act like assholes online is more of a mental disorder than those who take things to heart online. Some people just don't have the ability to ignore it, but the true issue stems from those who simply can't be civil online.

Yep, this is an issue as old as the internet itself. It's toxic human behavior turned into a cultural norm.

 

[Kyzer]

There's so much garbage in this post.



This is the typical asinine and curt behavior he's referencing. There's no reason to act like an asshole to someone who isn't. There is plenty of reason to act like one to someone who is like you are right now.



Feel free to point out where he said that. Or maybe that's just your poor reading comprehension talking.



But apparently you tolerate putting words in people's mouths.



Hey, look, an unsubstantiated claim. Are you going to tolerate it?

Trying too hard. Thought it was gonna go somewhere

 

[ULTROS!]

I think people needing to act like assholes online is more of a mental disorder than those who take things to heart online. Some people just don't have the ability to ignore it, but the true issue stems from those who simply can't be civil online.

I think there are issues to both actually if they go to the extreme:

- There are people who are incredibly sensitive on minor things and are incredibly vocal about injustices and what not.
- The are people who are incredibly heated on things and lambast their negativity almost everywhere and forcing it into other people's throats.

 

[HK-47]

Lol pretty nice my ass most sites think this one needs to be bombed from existence. Not my own words lol

That has little to do with our opinions on games. It's mostly the site's strict moderation and social justice stance that angers people enough to actually mention the site.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Fine then, crying for days over something someone you don't know said online is not at all a signal that something is wrong with you.

I think people needing to act like assholes online is more of a mental disorder than those who take things to heart online. Some people just don't have the ability to ignore it, but the true issue stems from those who simply can't be civil online.

Both things are "true issues". People being assholes online is an issue. People getting fucking PTSD over it is an issue.

Not long ago, a GAFer (I think it was Morrigan Stark) said they'd wish ignoring a poster also stopped you from seeing their shitty posts when someone else quoted them. Right now I would also wish for that.

It's only okay to be a complete asshole with people you disagree with!

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

This was NEVER the case? Lol

that's a good thing when you think about it. gotta hold people/companies accountable for their actions when it's bad.

case in point, MS and their X1 drm bullcrap. got shat on and rightfully so (off topic but an example)

 

[humansarehorses]

Trying too hard. Thought it was gonna go somewhere

Honestly, who cares what you thought?

 

[MetalliCabombination]

I don't condone hate threads or shitposting, but incomplete video games that don't deliver on their promises need to be called out. If I was the FFXV team I'd be making my discontent crystal clear with SE's management so they don't pull the easy access shit with XVI

Thats a nice excuse and everything but you cant seriously expect to believe people started shitting on xv after they played it?
do YOU actually believe that?

I think FFXV is terrible.

This does not mean I think the team is terrible people. It means I think the product they released is very, very bad.

I can separate the two, and so can you.

and yet there were a billion rants a day when stella was changed to luna, clearly that was very well thought out criticism that people engaged in despite having no clue about either characters and im pretty sure a very specific person were called out by name on that.
I don't mind people criticising a bad game, but gaf seriously needs to take a look in the mirror if we think all the nonsense we post isnt alot of the times, purely out of spite and hatred.
judge a game all you want but dont take things so personally .

I can separate the two, and so can you.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

I think there are issues to both actually if they go to the extreme:

- There are people who are incredibly sensitive on minor things and are incredibly vocal about injustices and what not.
- The are people who are incredibly heated on things and lambast their negativity almost everywhere and forcing it into other people's throats.

I agree, but the thing is I'd rather see someone who's busting some balls for the sake of just having a little fun and it be apparent that they are doing it and someone be a little sensitive to it, as opposed to someone being absolutely and outright disgusting in their ways but really tryin to dig deep, insult, belittle someone.

At least when the lesser is done I can feel better about the situation as it truly is harmless, and If someone is way to sensitive then they simply need to work on that, but at least I can see it and not be like wow what a pos.

There's definitely two sides to it, but the way people fluff off online behavior in general is such an issue.

You can't go into any place of public and just instigate or rile people up, yet online anything goes and there are a lot of shitty people out there just needing an outlet with no boundaries.

 

[Falchion]

Man wait till he sees the review thread

Those are always the worst / most lively / fun. Whichever your perspective is.

 

[Weltall Zero]

There are some things in life you need to have a thick skin about though. Maybe those things don't include someone pooping on your furniture, maybe they do include being able to handle commentary about your own creative work.

I would say for example as a schoolteacher you probably need to have thick enough skin to realize you're in charge and what the kids think of you shouldn't make you feel bad.

There's been a lot of debate about this indeed. For example, Gamergate insists feminists should grow a thicker skin about death and rape threats. However, they also believe criticising the games they love is crossing that line by half.

In case it wasn't obvious, with the extreme example above (yes folks, Gamergate have become the new Godwin law), what I'm saying is that everyone seems to agree there is a line where you have to simply grow a thicker skin and ignore bad things, everyone seems to agree this line is an objective, immutable, natural property of the universe, and absolutely no two people can agree where that line fucking is, especially not when it becomes their turn to be under attack.

"I'm hurt by your words, online stranger, but I should grow a thicker skin and let it slide off", said nobody ever.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I wonder what thread that makes the dude cried with tears.

 

[ULTROS!]

Thats a nice excuse and everything but you cant seriously expect to believe people started shitting on xv after they played it?
do YOU actually believe that?



and yet there were a billion rants a day when stella was changed to luna, clearly that was very well thought out criticism that people engaged in despite having no clue about either characters and im pretty sure a very specific person were called out by name on that.
I don't mind people criticising a bad game, but gaf seriously needs to take a look in the mirror if we think all the nonsense we post isnt alot of the times, purely out of spite and hatred.
judge a game all you want but dont take things so personally .

I can separate the two, and so can you.

The problem with the FF fanbase is it's incredibly divided and sometimes goes into theoretical/rumor-based stories of development. There are groups who have strong love and hate toward each FF game.

 

[mandiller]

Did that Rime rep ever reveal why the game costs DOUBLE the price for the Switch version in Australia? Because that's some A grade bullshit.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Without getting into specifics, both the gaming community in general, and the current state of the industry for developers/artists are pretty toxic. While this forum has a fair amount of negativity, we're hardly alone in it when it comes to gaming.

The gaming hate train spans many worlds.

It's not just the gaming world. IMDB forums were shut down because of the overwhelmingly toxic environment.

It's fine, i find it a stupid rule but it's not my forum so it's fine. But I see there's a 2017 rpg thread, I personally don't see how that sort of category is much different than narrowing down a bit more specific.

But it all is what it is.

Get over it. I find port begging extremely annoying and distracting. It is generally prohibited for good reason.

 

[NewGame]

Pity, I really liked what I saw in RIME;

but coming out of a lot of kick starter stinkers and No Man Sky I can see why people have become jaded and critical. It's just a bad time and place.

 

[mrlion]

Yeah, I'm sure Sean Murray and his team lived through this mess like nothing ever happened.

Sure there were some feelings I mean they are human after all. But at the end of the day they are still doing stuff with their game. If they cared so much about our negativity I'm sure they would've closed down by now.

 

[Spman2099]

NeoGAF having no chill isn't exactly news. Go look at every month where really great indies are released on PS+ and witness the hordes of people declaring those games, games they will likely never even try, to be garbage.

Truth be told, NeoGAF is extremely well moderated, but they can't stop people from being people without essentially taking the forum down.

I think we are one of the best behaved gaming "communities" on the web, but that doesn't mean that GAF is a place consisting solely of reasonable, well-thought-out opinions...

 

[Lord of Ostia]

Honestly, who cares what you thought?

You are being extremely hostile.

 

[DVCY201]

However, getting too worked up over words exchanged in the internet could be a symptom of a disease that needs treatment. Thinking it's just about people being assholes is disingenuous, if you get really upset because people said stupid things on the internet you don't need a nicer world. Chances are you need therapy.

You hear that everyone? Cyberbullying is solved! You just need THERAPY instead of addressing the root issue.

It is absolutely natural to get upset over what people say on the internet, especially when you or your product are the primary focus of hyperbolic statements far from the truth. It DOESN'T have to be one or the other, it can be both. Learn to separate the unhealthy criticism, and learn to post more constructive statements instead of toxic drive-by posts

 

[Lionel Richie]

ITT right now: people being really aggressive with people over people being aggressive with people. That's like a meme from 2005. It's okay to publicly announce your ignore list like that means anything and call out "shitty posts" if you're fighting the good fight, it's not toxic if you're on the right side. This is annoying and it's my least favorite thing about the generation we live in.

 

[grumble]

Anonymity turns normal people into assholes; more accurately, maybe, it lets people show the world who they truly are. Often, it's not nice people.

A hate train can also erupt not because everyone is being malicious, but because they make one comment. Five hundred people making one angry comment adds up to a lot of hate.

 

[humansarehorses]

You are being extremely hostile.

If he's bothered by my posts then he's free to the advice given in this thread since he's voluntarily reading what I wrote: just grow thick skin.

 

[Lionel Richie]

You hear that everyone? Cyberbullying is solved! You just need THERAPY instead of addressing the root issue.

It is absolutely natural to get upset over what people say on the internet, especially when you or your product are the primary focus of hyperbolic statements far from the truth.

I absolutely never said that cyberbullying isn't an issue, I'm just saying that being too affected by negativity and aggressive words could mean you're dealing with mental diseases and that ideally you'd need treatment. Both things are problems. Cyberbullying is a problem. Depression is a problem. Correlation doesn't imply causation. Do you disagree? Are you a doctor?

 

[Xenoblade]

Moral of the story:

Don't read Neogaf

 

[-Mutsukki-]

I absolutely never said that cyberbullying isn't an issue, I'm just saying that being too affected by negativity and aggressive words could mean you're dealing with mental diseases and that ideally you'd need treatment. Both things are problems. Cyberbullying is a problem. Depression is a problem. Correlation doesn't imply causation. Do you disagree? Are you a doctor?

I'd like to know what makes you think that people not being able to take shit well online has anything to do with mental diseases. Burden of proof lies with you. Being more sensitive is a mental ilness now? Honestly you're just spewing bullshit in my opinion..

 

[karasu]

Telling someone to have thicker skin seems real fucking vile to me. You are basically telling them to stop experiencing emotions the way that they do. Imagine if I shat on your desk and called you a baby for finding it gross.

It is not vile at all; It is a necessity. Especially if you're doing creative work that will eventually be judged by people. There will be harsh commentary since we don't have thought police, so it's prudent to prepare yourself for it.

 

[DangerMouse]

and yet there were a billion rants a day when stella was changed to luna, clearly that was very well thought out criticism that people engaged in despite having no clue about either characters and im pretty sure a very specific person were called out by name on that.

As someone who strongly favored Stella (as hinted at her role in the trailers) over Luna, and still do after seeing the full Luna, I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that. That's because characters like this don't only work like that, with such characters first impressions are very important too, especially in RPGs and especially in JRPGs. You don't need to know them in detail before you initially first get attached to them. Some people get attached to the main characters based on their design and attitude (and therefore didn't like Luna thanks to her portrayal right from the start in trailers and Tabata's heavy handed "she's even stronger than Stella" which I don't think many would agree with in either the trailers nor after experiencing the full Luna in the game) and don't need to see them in the full game first before having a preference toward (or against) certain members of the cast that they hope will be reinforced when they finally get to play the full game.

Even S-E knew it was a gamble to take Stella out of the game when people were attached to the character and the kind of heroine that the trailers were portraying her as. It's also why they played coy about whether or not they were doing it at first.

It also goes both ways since devs like S-E gain from it too because most JRPGs start their advertisement by slowly wheeling out the characters with broad introductions. They are one of the selling points of the game even before you truly get to know them in the final product and full story.

Current Example: Lots of people are already favoring the martial arts girl, Martina, among DQXI's early glimpses of the main cast thanks to the first impression of the brief snippet of her attitude/personality and cool fighting style. People would probably be upset if she was suddenly removed from the game before it came out.

 

[DVCY201]

I absolutely never said that cyberbullying isn't an issue, I'm just saying that being too affected by negativity and aggressive words could mean you're dealing with mental diseases and that ideally you'd need treatment. Both things are problems. Cyberbullying is a problem. Depression is a problem. Correlation doesn't imply causation. Do you disagree? Are you a doctor?

Are you a Doctor suggesting that they need help with mental illness or disorders? Which disorders specifically? Why do you have such a hard time believing that a functioning person could be disheartened when reading comments such as 'this game is shit', or 'the developers are fucking scamming us', etc.?

If a friend comes to you, says I'm really hurt by what so and so said to me, do you just tell them to 'man up'? Ugh, it's exactly those reasons why people downplay mental illness

 

[Speely]

The internet was not a mistake, but it's often mistaken.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

The internet was not a mistake, but it's often mistaken.

I was happy without it tbh, wish it came after my lifetime.