Christopher
Member
This doesn't even make sense.
Riots outside Trump Rally in Orange County
- Thread starter johnsmith
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This doesn't even make sense.
Hip Hop
Member
It's the usual one liners he throws out, like "Tell us how you really feel".
OldAsUrSock
Banned
For the colonials their wasn't much option,but to riot. The founders of the Country provided a platform where there are other means to implement change in the country without rioting and that platform created at the foundation of America is based on everyone's right to express their beliefs even those like Trump. The colonials supported such a system because of their experiences in a Government System that did not support Freedom of Speech. Minimizing the reasons for why America exists to just hating Taxes is either ignoring much of America's history, ignorant of it, or disingenuous.
What is annoying is that any post that even slightly shows displeasure in these riots means the poster must be at least one of these:
- Privileged
- White
- Racist
This happened just a few blocks from where I live, I was coming home from Anaheim and I noticed a big line of traffic where I was getting off the freeway. It then dawned on me that I was using the same exit to get home as these other cars were to get the the Trump rally. When I got home I could hear the helicopters buzzing around outside. According to my nephew, his friend's older brother was at the protest and was shot in the knee by a rubber bullet, and someone else in that family was almost hit by a car.
Chie Satonaka
Member
First off, I've never said or implied it's an unlikely situation. I hope that's something that never happens. I take no pleasure in the idea that someone's life saving care might be delayed behind a protest.
Second, protests aren't meant to garner sympathy. Why do people continue to harp on this as if the ultimate goal of protesting is to endear everybody into a We Are The World type alliance?
I doubt there's going to be anything that's going to garner sympathy to what people protest when protests happen. This thread, and many others in which disruptive protests are happening, not to mention the mainstream opinion when it's happening are a shining example of that, not to mention history.
You and others seem to be more concerned about a hypothetical situation and a protest being "obnoxious" than you are about the actual issues being protested. Donald Trump should have blacks and latinos (and white folks, too!) crashing his parties constantly. Roads can and should be blocked. I don't advocate for violence, but I do advocate citizens doing what they need to in order to begin nudging (because it'll never, ever be truly equal, white supremacy won't allow that) things in a better direction.
It's really unfortunate that people continue to play Imaginationland to use in their distaste for disruptive tactics that have worked in the past. They're literally part of our history. If 1960's NeoGAF were a thing, I bet we'd be hearing some of the same arguments there, just with much more colorful racial language.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Riots gets thrown around waaaaaaaaay too often for sensationalism.
I was in LA in 1992...that was a riot.
I was in LA in 1992...that was a riot.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
You don't need to wonder! Just check out the Berniebros! Or your garden variety euphoric atheists, if you want a classic example.
I was born and raised in Orange County, and I don't know how else to say this.. but there is a very negative attitude towards the Mexican community there.
At the Trump rally (I didn't attend myself) they had familes whose loved ones were killed by illegal immigrants. He got them all on stage holding pictures of their loved ones who were murdered.. which is a common rhetoric I grew up with, whenever one immigrant did something bad, it was used to smear an entire community of people.
I used to see clashes like this one all the time when I was growing up in Garden Grove
ryutaro's mama
Member
You weren't fucking there. You don't know what you're talking about.
All of you people painting these protestors as violent hooligans are ignorant as fuck. And you've probably never been to a protest. You don't have the courage to participate. And most of you cisgender hetero white dudes (like myself) have no right to tell people of color who don't have the same political privilege that you do how and when to protest.
"Go vote instead." You know, the only "legitimate" avenue to social change. It's easy for you to say when your race, religion, and sexual orientation isn't a specific target of these "legitimate" systems in the first place. So contine sit on your ass and complain about how these thugs are making you feel bad. Talk about some farcical idea of progress in this democracy facsimile you've all conjured and believe. Because you don't give a shit about them, those people on the ground. Because you aren't even trying to understand them. You aren't even giving them a chance. Because some rocks were thrown and some car windows were shattered.
Property is God and no lives matter.
I'll be back for more after work. But the nerve of some of you people. The political ignorance and bigotry in this thread is astounding.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Carnby
Member
You forgot to take this to Godwin's Law.
Amazing post.
Premium Quality
Member
I usually don't post in serious topics, but I had to here. As a Mex/Am, I got to say, thank you for this post.
It always saddens me when ever an election year comes, illegal immigrants becomes the GOP's excuse for this nation's problems.
Claude Augario
Member
"Property is God and no lives matter" is an acute and succinct takedown of all the bullshit that always pops up in protest threads. Amazing.
It is, isn't it.
Lol what
If all you are doing is questioning the need to throw rocks, then yes. If in context you want to understand why they would throw rocks or be upset in the first place, then no.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
Why do you keep saying we don't understand? I understand perfectly why Trump upsets people and why they think they are justified in these protests. I'm just pointing out that that sort of behavior is what enables him, and that the principle that the "good guys" get to break the rules vindicates his supporters. I don't even think the two sides in this thread are having the same discussion.
And that Property is God stuff is so out of left field I don't even know how to respond. It's not mere property damage that is bothering us here. When your house gets broken into the lingering sense of insecurity is much worse than the value of the stuff you lost; I don't like that you seem to think violence is justified because Trump says things that you don't like.
I don't see the issue with questioning the choice of targets that protestor's choose to vent their frustrations towards. It's not about property destruction, it's about why you're picking that property specifically. If you make no difference between misc. motorists and Trump's personal motorcade, what level of destruction would you say is fair to criticize?
Yup. The funniest/saddest thing about these protests are the people mewling about how violent dissent invalidates everything the protesters are trying to say. A close second are the people who self-identify as Tea Partiers tut-tuting about how liberals always get violent with people who disagree with them. For people who invoke the Founding Fathers every ten seconds, they don't seem to know much about what said Founding Fathers actually, you know, did.
If you think all minorities deal with is some harsh words from Trump than you would be wrong. There is more simmering under the surface that leads to these outbursts.
But either way you guys seem determined to continue to condemn what happened and not talk about much else. So carry on.
But either way you guys seem determined to continue to condemn what happened and not talk about much else. So carry on.
Aaronology
Member
You forgot what you wrote? Let me quote it for you:
So I repeat, stop attempting to portray posters in this thread who take issue with protesters throwing rocks at motorists as being apathetic towards the plight of minorities in the United States.
Well I guess my thinking is, the Christians are a religious majority in this country, I just find it somewhat amusing that the Republicans and even Trump are completely behind the rights of the Christians and their "religious freedom" while dismissing the actual plights of minorities facing actual injustice. But I guess this is a bit off topic anyway, I just was more responding to the people saying people shouldn't care about words so much, but that seems to only apply to people that they maybe can't relate to in the same way.
LOL.
Some people on gaf rush to threads like these to say how violent protests are wrong or even ***GASP*** blocking traffic.
I certainly feel that some of them care much more about order and property than change. I can't reach through my laptop and know what is in their souls. But to me it comes off in an apathetic way. And I am certainly allowed to say how I feel.
King Tubby
Member
Who the fuck in this thread thinks Donald Trump isnt a piece of shit?
I understand hating Donald Trump. I hate him. But these protests aren't accomplishing shit other than giving people an outlet for their hate of him.
It's hilarious to he called naive when you are cynical enough to know exactly how the media is going to report on something like this. "Minorities don't like Trump" is not news. "Minorities are throwing rocks at cars" is news, and it plays into Trump's narrative.
I understand hating Donald Trump. I hate him. But these protests aren't accomplishing shit other than giving people an outlet for their hate of him.
It's hilarious to he called naive when you are cynical enough to know exactly how the media is going to report on something like this. "Minorities don't like Trump" is not news. "Minorities are throwing rocks at cars" is news, and it plays into Trump's narrative.
Yes. But there was not a call for protestors to throw rocks at cars as far as I know. That just happened, it was bad choices by a few individuals. Most were there to protest peacefully.
Your argument seems to be that people just shouldn't protest at this point as they are doing more harm than good. I'm not so sure I agree with that. I think people protesting Trump at every turn doesn't look good for him and maybe makes people think. I'll agree though that any violence that happens does not help the cause.
I think in part it's that certain people don't want to just come out and admit they are against the protesting and what is being protested, so they pick out the obvious negative details like a broken window and they use that to justify that all the protestors are in the wrong, if that makes sense. "See, see, these are bad people doing bad things. They are breaking windows, destroying property. This needs to stop!" When in reality, even after what happened, these incidents are small and not very common considering the amounts of rallies Trump has.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
Yep.
Iorv3th
Member
Caring about order/property does not mean you don't want change. Breaking peoples personal property isn't going to get them to join your side. It's going to piss them off and reinforce any prejudices they already have in most cases.
I am sure Trump will just use it as fuel.
King Tubby
Member
Maybe I'm out of touch but I feel like the battle lines are already well established. Everyone knows about Trump's bigotry, his primary campaign strategy involves attracting attention.
To be clear, Trump has chosen a strategy that resonates within a large segment of the Republican base. I don't feel the need to elaborate on the demographics here. Trump is an opportunist who capitalizes on simmering tensions and chaos. Counter protests are more likely to motivate his base than anything else.
I mean yeah I guess. But people want to protest because they want to have a voice now, they want to let the people supporting a bigot know that they are not ok with this. I mean maybe it makes more sense to just ignore it all, let it play out, and let the election happen. But people feel like they don't want to wait and let an openly racist platform rise while they say nothing. I'm not so sure that had there never been any protests Trump would be in a better place than he is now. I'm also not sure it's going to matter in the end, because I really doubt minorities are going to be changing their votes because of some protesting which means Trump is going to have basically the same voter base regardless.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
If this riles up Trump's base, then so be it. Our history books are full of violent clashes over all sorts of basic shit. That's how politics and progress happen. All of our Founding Fathers have quotes about war and change. Politics has never, ever been pretty anywhere.
I don't want it to happen at all. It'd be great if everyone got along and we didn't have any racism. But if racists want to fight over the country, we've done this before over and over. Don't act surprised that it's happening again.
It's weird how some of you talk like you'd rather avoid this conflict forever somehow than just resolve it. That if there's any way for angry people to just stop caring, that's better than facing the issues. Like how we killed racism by not talking about it in public anymore.
I don't want it to happen at all. It'd be great if everyone got along and we didn't have any racism. But if racists want to fight over the country, we've done this before over and over. Don't act surprised that it's happening again.
It's weird how some of you talk like you'd rather avoid this conflict forever somehow than just resolve it. That if there's any way for angry people to just stop caring, that's better than facing the issues. Like how we killed racism by not talking about it in public anymore.
Sure, and that's why you're here trying to convince people not to look down on the rioters. If the opinion of others didn't truly matter, why does it bother you so much that we're not all singing their praises? Maybe it's because narratives do matter?
Nope. You're just projecting. I've posted plenty about what a POS Trump is and how damaging his campaign is. In fact, I've even taken issue with all the people here that have been cheering him on to win the nomination just because they want to see the GOP implode. Just because I also happen to take issue with the handwaving of violence and dumb reasoning doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic to the issues that are being protested. We all agree Trump sucks, why do you also want it to be an echo-chamber with regards to how we believe displeasure toward his campaign should be expressed?
What are you even trying to say with this shit? That we're all on the same side of the bigots and anti-progressive crowd but are just pussyfooting around the issue?
BuggyDClown
Member
This dude gets it.
BuggyDClown
Member
This guy sucks
tearsintherain
Member
Why does protesting Trump have to include burning the American flag?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlWdlJGFsA4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlWdlJGFsA4
I know the area. It's at the Fairgrounds across from Vanguard, right off the 55 freeway. Traffic was blocked so it wasn't a typical Thursday evening, my friend. Rocks were being thrown at cars of people shouting out racist insults and pro-Trump bullshit. People weren't targeting random civilians. Stop buying into this bullshit narrative. It's OBVIOUSLY false. Who the fuck would do this? Do you really think hundreds or thousands of people gathered just to get violent and attack innocent bystanders?
For those of you saying this plays into Trumps message, you're kidding yourself. Like I've said, Trump is going to have his supporters no matter what. People are going to believe his message no matter what. And in EVERY protest that results in the revelation of the justified rage of people of color, the media are going to come up with easy, obvious headlines and you're going to lap it up and make your own conclusions from it. So what you're really saying is that it's easy for you to believe that a bunch of young Mexican kids were acting like wild animals. That's the way you're choosing to look at them. That's the narrative you're accepting. Without any critical examination of the situation.
You're a part of the problem. Not the rock throwers or police car shatterers. And all you people throwing out this non-violent bullshit need to stop it, too. There's already a violent force at play here and it's the forces of the state and capital and their police force which systematically violate people of color every single day.
Since you're all so used to using MLK as your token black liberal idol, you should read about what he actually had to say about this kind of behavior:
Yo, he's talking about you folks.
Tell me what's wrong with defending people's justified rage. Why is it that I can log into NeoGAF and expect patronizing racists from a sizable portion of its users? Oh, because it's fucking NeoGAF.
Try putting some thought into your damn response. Give me something to work with here.
Go ahead and try to argue against it. But you probably can't because you think your notion of property rights and civil liberties can't be criticized as outdated even though they're probably based off of a 200 year old document evolved from a barely post-Feudalistic society.. Just to give you some damn context, I mean.
In any case, I'm so thankful that there are some actual radical-minded or at least POC-allied minds in this thread. Thank you for giving me the energy to re-enter this discussion. It's really encouraging. Is there an OT for leftists round these parts? For real.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Bravo, sir. You made the greatest statement about 21st century.
excelsiorlef
Member
Really?
Who gives a shit. It's a flag.
Not to mention Trump invokes major blind patriotism as part of his campaign so...
Those are socialist protesters.. actual socialists, not the fake social democrat kind. The red flags, the "La Riva for president" signs are all symbols of socialism
Jack The Nipper
Banned
This thread.. .
Keep in mind we all have opinions and there will be someone that disagrees with us on everything we believe. hope some of you can be kind as its something we all can do.
In the end keep in mind if your having to make counter points over and over your doing a loop and the other is barely paying attention and is already in counter mode.
I have little experience in riots or protests but can admit I'd be anxious in both.
Keep in mind we all have opinions and there will be someone that disagrees with us on everything we believe. hope some of you can be kind as its something we all can do.
In the end keep in mind if your having to make counter points over and over your doing a loop and the other is barely paying attention and is already in counter mode.
I have little experience in riots or protests but can admit I'd be anxious in both.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
You could put this argument to many things depending on stance. Who gives a shit it's a car, road, store, flag, tree, money/paper. Obviously people havev strong feelings to flags just like many things. Go to Russia and burn thier flag in front of them.. You'll find people do give a shit. Not saying I do but people do due for what they believe the flag stands for. Not my idea but there are many ideas to the flag.
The GOP has always had a somewhat strong Latino/Hispanic base because of their appeal to religion and family values.
DragonSworne
Banned
Guys, Trump uses the protests as fuel regardless of property damage...
He's been doing it the first moment a protester was escorted out of his rally. He pumps up his supporters when he chucks people out of his events.
He's been doing it the first moment a protester was escorted out of his rally. He pumps up his supporters when he chucks people out of his events.
Effective protests cause a lot of hassle for everyone in the area. People worry more about the fallout, real or hypothetical, of the protest than why people are frustrated/angry enough to protest in the first place.
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