BruceWayne
Member
This is what cap'n looks like from above.
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Rob Liefeld Teen Titans preview. Bring your barf bags before entering!
- Thread starter nomoment
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hXc_thugg said:
Manga = comics. It's not a separate genre. Super Heroes and drift racing stories like Initial D and are a separate genre, for example, but there's great American and Japanese comics out there. Don't be so close-minded and hate ALL the comics from a particular area of the world like Nomoment does.
The Take Out Bandit said:What?! What?! What?!
Fuck the Peter David Hulk too.
Jesus shit that was awful.
I tried re-reading that crap before the Hulk movie came out, and I got to the "socially relevant" AIDS issue where one of Rick Jones's friends a supporting black character had TEH AIDS from TEH GAY.
Oh christ - it's painful attempting to read that shit. It's like watching a First Grader giving a report on why their dad is so great. Shut the fuck up. Juvenile power fantasies. You're not socially relevant. Get over it. :X
In summary: Peter David sucks and Dale Keown isn't as good as I remember him being.
You just hated on Peter David's run on the Hulk? You are fuckin DEAD to me.
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
me too!DarienA said:
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Heh, hating on Peter David was the one redeemiing thing in that post.
Oh, Nomoment, the new avatar rocks. If only Bouncing Boy could be in the frame as well.
Oh, Nomoment, the new avatar rocks. If only Bouncing Boy could be in the frame as well.
Outcast2004
Banned
DarienA said:
Odd you bring him up.... I just met him in Pittsburgh not that long ago. Love his work... it's a shame doesnt do more stuff though.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Shig said:
Not true. Plenty of superhero comics end.
Shogmaster
Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
kinda different when things end because no one will buy them.
Outcast2004 said:
Wasn't he doing some Marvel work a bit back? Daredevil or something? I thought I saw his art style on some book when I was in the store recently but it wasn't a title I was interested in so I skipped it... Man I loved his run on Ghost Rider.. I'm a Dan Ketch GR fan as oppose to a Johnny Blaze fan... though Blaze in the Ketch book was cool.... but the end of that series was disappointing as f*ck.
Last thing I remember Tex doing was the Vampirella Witchblade crossover..
agree, I love his style.
and to the peter david haters... bah humbug.. the guy's only flaw (IMHO) is that he plays on continuity and history big time. so if you don't follow his work "some" of his jokes will sail right over your head. otherwise the guy is overall a great writer (check out Fallen Angels or his Supergirl run for those who would say otherwise).
agree, I love his style.
and to the peter david haters... bah humbug.. the guy's only flaw (IMHO) is that he plays on continuity and history big time. so if you don't follow his work "some" of his jokes will sail right over your head. otherwise the guy is overall a great writer (check out Fallen Angels or his Supergirl run for those who would say otherwise).
Spike Spiegel
Member
Tex... Mark Texeira? He's still around. Didn't he just do a Conan one-shot for Dark Horse? Something else too, that I'm forgetting...
EDIT: Hercules! He's doing the Hercules miniseries for Marvel.
EDIT: Hercules! He's doing the Hercules miniseries for Marvel.
Spike Spiegel said:
From his site http://www.marktexeira.com/
EDIT:
There's no Ghost Rider art on his site... I'm pissed.
Ninja Scooter
Member
is Mark Texiera the 1st baseman for the Texas Rangers?
His style is so unappealing.
I have this urge to print out this work and burn it. I don't know why this feeling exists.
Man, where did the clobber boots go on Robin. Those kicked ass, literally. BTW, where the heck is starfire and beast boy? Who the heck are those lesbian crime fighters? and what is this, wonder.. girl?
I have this urge to print out this work and burn it. I don't know why this feeling exists.
Man, where did the clobber boots go on Robin. Those kicked ass, literally. BTW, where the heck is starfire and beast boy? Who the heck are those lesbian crime fighters? and what is this, wonder.. girl?
beast boy and starfire are still in the group. the "teachers" per se are Beast Boy, Starfire, and Cyborg. The "students" are Robin (Time Drake), Suberboy (clone from Death of Superman era), Wonder Girl (wonder girl II after wonder girl I became Troia), and Kid Flash (formerly Impulse). Raven is also in there but up to where I am (ish 15) she is kind of out of it and not all together.Jonk said:
I agree, I liked Robins jack boots also.. but the flamer boots are classic to me, so I'm ok with those also.
and I also realized that while I am ok with Liefeld's style on his own works (up to and including anyone/thing he created in New Mutants after 87 and XForce), I am not digging it on this.. oh well, Gail shouldn't fail.
What's funny is I think Rob has some great ideas when it comes to compositions and layouts sometimes... he just needs to clean up his style a bit.. the problem is he doesn't look to have advanced much since the late 80's.
Now take Jim Lee for example.. his style has improved so drastically it's ridiculous.. some of the test stuff I've seen from Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder just looks downright gorgeous.
Outcast2004
Banned
borghe said:What's funny is I think Rob has some great ideas when it comes to compositions and layouts sometimes... he just needs to clean up his style a bit.. the problem is he doesn't look to have advanced much since the late 80's.
Now take Jim Lee for example.. his style has improved so drastically it's ridiculous.. some of the test stuff I've seen from Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder just looks downright gorgeous.
His composition shoul dbe good, because he steals his panell layouts from other artists.
As far as my opinion goes Jim Lee is one of the best ever. His penciling is always solid and has a great sense of speed and action. Hi srun on X-men was the stuff of legend.
Shogmaster
Member
borghe said:What's funny is I think Rob has some great ideas when it comes to compositions and layouts sometimes... he just needs to clean up his style a bit.. the problem is he doesn't look to have advanced much since the late 80's.
if he had great ideas for compositions and layouts, he wouldn't ganking so many people's compositions and layouts on such regular basis. :lol
Also, the boy doesn't bother to think out the drawing as he goes. He just goes by rote, and impatiently. That's why so many of his drawing not ganked from others' work is so damn wrong in anatomy and perspective.
He needs to swallow his pride and re-learn some basics.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
SpiderJerusalem said:
me three!!
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Shig said:
how does that make them better? seems to me that american comic characters have more substance to them and have more creators lined up that want to work on them. if they didnt, they would have cancelled superman long ago. of course some of you will never be bale to see that.......
gettergooey
Member
evil solrac v3.0 said:
I like both manga and american comics, they're both good in their own ways.
But to the point of american comics continuing forever, it doesn't automatically mean that american comics "have more substance and have more creators lined up that want to work on them". DC and Marvel owns the characters and just want to milk whatever succesful series they have, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The creators come and go because really they don't own their work as much.
Japanese mangas on the other hand are mostly (or maybe 100%?) created with 1 or 2 people from the beginning to the end. You can see the american equivalent to this with Alan Moore's ABC line. His stuff usually is on a limited run and it works.
It's a different model that can't really be used to argue which is good or bad.
Forgotten_Taco
Member
Shig said:
The Watchmen ended. Watchmen > You and your mom, and quite possibly your best friend.
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
No that must be manga, all american comics are superhero books that go on forever. :lol
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Nice diversionary tactic.
Nobody is saying anything about manga, and I'm the last person you need to lecture on that bullshit. When I was teaching "manga style" cartooning classes, the first thing I stressed is that; manga = a Japanese word for comics.
The differences arise in the size of the market. Japan's comic market shits on the American comic market from a great height. There is greater readership and a greater selection of content. The American comic market is still a spandex ghetto.
Hey, comic fans could learn a lot from Shantae. It had a beginning, middle, and an end - and instead of making up bullshit excuses about the game ending bringing about the demise of any future potential milking, I can just go back and play it again if I enjoyed it that much.
Sort of like a movie I love.
Sort of like a novel I love.
Comic fans on the other hand, feel some pointless need to have every month of the year padded out with more bullshit content for X Hero, the vast majority of which will largely be forgotten in 10-15 years time.
After 60 years of Batman, why do folks still only focus on a handful of Bat-titles; the most popular of them being one totally removed from the actual continuity of the character (Dark Knight Returns)? Why do you need all that bullshit in between? What purpose does it serve other than to placate your persistent need for more bullshit?
Personally, I'd rather have one well written Batman or Superman story whenever a writer comes up with a brilliant idea as opposed to an endless stream of shit; but that model doesn't benefit the corporate owners of these properties, err - "characters".
When was the last time you read it Darien?
I too recall really enjoying his run on Hulk with Dale Keown, but when I went back to re-read that shit. Well, it was shit. I can't say that's the same thing that happens when I revisit a Thomas Harris or Clive Barker novel. Problem is these comic cogs aren't thinking beyond the next month with the serialized shit they're spewing out. It's not timeless.
I'm afraid to go back and re-read any of the stuff I used to enjoy for fear of it all actually sucking. I'd rather not tarnish my fond memories of Iron Man, Daredevil, Captain America, Superman, and the like. I also enjoyed David's run on X-Factor, but I'll be god damned if I fall for this a third time.
Kingdom Come on the other hand. Man - I can read that book over and over. That's the standard all American comics should strive towards, especially when dealing with these hugely iconic characters! Jesus christ, is there any real reason why Captain America should be over here punching out drug dealers when we've currently got a political enemy like the Taliban? Hello - Cap got his fuckin' start fighting Hitler. I don't care if it's "propaganda" or politically incorrect in these times, THAT'S CAP! And if you don't like it find another damned hobby or pair of tights to idolize.
I loved John Ney Reiber's take on Cap. Not playing the yes man to a corrupt political system, but that was a little too heavy for Marvel so they kicked him off the book and handed it off to some incompetent tit.
And I'm supposed to give a damn about a company that so blatantly shits all over the creative talent they're strip mining?! Without folks like Reiber, Marvel would exist.
Gettergooey gets props for addressing this.
Problem is if you want to make money in comics in the US, you have no choice but to go to Marvel or DC. Anything else is a Quixotic fantasy. I was actually pretty shocked that Bendis got his start in the indies and sold out to Marvel. Good on him I guess, but it's a shame that now he'll be remembered as the "Spiderman guy" and not the "Torso/Jinx guy".
Everybody pisses and moans about monopolies in the gaming industry, but they never stop to look at what these "creative" monopolies have done to the American comic market.
Fuck that bullshit.
For every 100 Bullets, there are four Spidermans - and the minority group of the month version of Spiderman to boot. How fucked up is that shit?
"Fans" will piss and moan about endings. "Wah wah you can't further explore the character". Funny, we've been further exploring the character of Peter Parker for well over 40 years now, and he's not a day older than when he started. In fact, they went back and started him over from square one. Care to fucking explain to me how regurgitating Stan and Steve's old stories is "innovative"?
You're a bunch of morons and the sooner you admit you have a problem, the sooner Marvel will stop publishing five Spiderman books, Six X-Books, so on and so forth.
So far as I know, Watchmen is partially creator owned - which is why DC can't whore it to the extent they'd like, but they also can't let it slip from the public eye; because IIRC that means the full rights revert to Moore and Gibbons.
Watchmen is an example of an American comic book done right. It has a beginning, middle, and an end - and at no point does the ass clown that could have taken over after Moore left have to worry about how Rorscach would get along with Superman, or devise some contrived means of The Comedian beating up Batman.
There's no coincidence in the fact that the "Seminal" comic works are totally removed from standard corporate continuity. Anybody can pick them up and get the whole scoop. There's a definite ending. There's no commitment to keep picking up shitpile after shitpile every month.
It's kind of crap, but Spawn #10 written by Dave Sim was a brilliant commentary on the problems that are so prevalent in the American comic market. Go buy a copy, or you-know-what a copy and read it!
Then again, I don't expect a bunch of consumer twat windbags on a message board to give two shits about creator's rights. So long as they get their monthly fuckin' pacifier.
Spike Spiegel
Member
TToB...
We get it. We always got it. You're not likely to change anyone's mind, and that long-winded rant didn't tell us anything about your opinion of American "corporate" comics that we didn't already know. So please, PLEASE, stop taking the bait.
And at least try to be a little nicer.
As for the rest of you: PLEASE STOP BRINGING UP THE DAMN "MANGA VS COMICS" DEBATE.
We get it. We always got it. You're not likely to change anyone's mind, and that long-winded rant didn't tell us anything about your opinion of American "corporate" comics that we didn't already know. So please, PLEASE, stop taking the bait.
And at least try to be a little nicer.
As for the rest of you: PLEASE STOP BRINGING UP THE DAMN "MANGA VS COMICS" DEBATE.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
God damn, I can't believe how much Mile High is charging for some of this shit that I have. @_@
Mike Works
Member
What's the story behind this?
Outcast2004
Banned
In other comic related news... I just won a piece of original James O'Barr art from The Crow comic book series...
Long time dream: ACCOMPKLISHED! HUZZA!
Long time dream: ACCOMPKLISHED! HUZZA!
I can't recall exactly what it all was about. I read the issue when it came out, around 10 or so years ago. Dave Sim wrote the issue and it guest starred his creation Cerebus. The underlying theme dealt with Marvel's and DC's unwillingness to give character creators their due... one of the reasons why Image Comics was born.Mike Works said:
What's the story behind this?
Edit: I believe Cerebus may have presented the whole situation to Spawn as some sort of hell. Like I said, I can't recall correctly.
TTOB large rambling rants put me to sleep.. besides I already said you're dead to me so no reason to give me some long drawn out take on comics vs. manga... that I don't agree with.
Still I love when people get on there supposed pedestals claiming they are attempting to "wake everyone else" up.
Gives me something to chuckle about.
Still I love when people get on there supposed pedestals claiming they are attempting to "wake everyone else" up.
Gives me something to chuckle about.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Then you totally missed it.
That's okay, I'll chalk up your aversion to reading to a genetic predisposition towards laziness. :lol
Keep on truckin' Net-Cop.
Spike Spiegel
Member
Mike Works said:
Yeah, that's pretty much it as I recall. Cerebus guides Spawn on a weird little mind-trip that depicts the evil of the "corporate comics" tyrants, DC and Marvel, and the shining hope that is creator ownership, as embodied by the (then) newly-formed Image. The bound and hooded men are the creators, and their creations, the superheroes of DC and Marvel, are caged by the companies that own the rights to them.Laguna X said:
Dave Sim is a big advocate of creator ownership, as you can imagine.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
BAH comicbooks dont end?? one of the greatest comicbook chars ever, Sandman by Neil Gaiman was but a limited series.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
And in one post, TTOB manages to completely miss his target, even if the ides he's advocating are mine, also (creator rights and comics with an ending).
More flies with honey, honey. Unless your primary goal is not to educate, but to insult people for what you perceive their biases are.
And if you were shocked that Bendis came up out of the indies, then you don't read enough comics. A large number of the writers in the majors came from the small press scene. Brubaker, Winnick, Rucka, just to nanme three off the top of my head.
More flies with honey, honey. Unless your primary goal is not to educate, but to insult people for what you perceive their biases are.
And if you were shocked that Bendis came up out of the indies, then you don't read enough comics. A large number of the writers in the majors came from the small press scene. Brubaker, Winnick, Rucka, just to nanme three off the top of my head.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
DonasaurusRex said:
TTOB has his filter on, so that he can justify his rant.
Lots of American comics end, and not all of them are creator owned.
I guess I need to clarify for those of you that see in absolutes.myself said:
The titles that are the lynchpins for the entire American comic industry are neverending superhero comics.
Bad manga will go away if it doesn't do well, and hell, even if it does. Meanwhile, a bad superhero is never gone, they get integrated into the universe and even if their own book is cancelled they still make appearances in 20 other books, then get a limited series, then get another monthly, then that gets cancelled again, repeat repeat repeat. I mean, look no further than this thread, Hawk and Dove are reuniting with Wonder Girl, Cyborg and Starfire. And hey, isn't that Flamebird?evil solrac said:
In most cases, you could summarize all the noteworthy character developments in a given superhero's entire 40+ years of existence on a small scrap of paper.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate superhero comics or anything, I actually enjoy a lot of them. I'm just saying that it's really messed up that it's where 80% of the American industry's focus lies. And I think that overwhelming focus and dependence on them is precisely what is holding the industry back.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Shig said:
I can get behind this.
There's another issue, beyond the never-ending aspect-- the shared universe. Back in the 70s and earlier, at least the shared-universe was ignored when it made sense to, but with more emphasis on continuity (a neat trick, if overly dominant) you can't be half as creative with comics.
You can't have hero X or Y encounter aliens for the fist time, because he lives in a universe where aliens are all over the place. For instance.
This is one of the reasons that the Ultimate comics are pretty good-- they have mroe lattitude and less baggage. But over time, they will develop the same problems.
My favorite comics are niether manga nor superheo comics, but north american b/w indies. Chris Ware > any manga I've read. Maus > *. Love and Rockets, even with its never-ending nature > 99% or everything.
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