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[Killjoy-NL]

Then you are obviously not the target audience

I'm actually exactly the target audience, because I've already stated that as a "hardcore" gamer, I'd buy it day 1 for the performance boost.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I'm actually exactly the target audience, because I've already stated that as a gamer, I'd buy it day 1 for the performance boost.

Then how is it pointless?

 

[mckmas8808]

It is for marketing. Also, DLSS and co are AI, so it works in games and you can bet they'll milk it dry.

About consoles not being comparable to phones, that was true in the past but not anymore. Look at the PS4 -> PS5 jump and tell me that wasn't incremental at best. Moore's Law is Dead, and things have slowed down dramatically in the last few years. I bet MS will be the first one to try a similar business model with a new console every 2 or 3 years and promised support for about 6 or so. Waiting for a generational jump now that things are stagnating seems pointless. It might not work, but that is where we're heading.

The hardware isn't stagnating as much as the software side is. Devs during Covid started working from home, PLUS many of these devs have stopped crunch. And it cost more to develop these games. That's where most of the stagnation has come from.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Then how is it pointless?

"pretty pointless".

PS4 Pro covered a mere 10% of sales, mostly double-dippers and easier to market/sell (4K and PSVR primarily).

This gen is entirely different.

 

[Tg89]

Depending on the specs, if I were a primarily PS5 gamer, I'd probably bite.

That said, I play mostly on PC, PS5 is really just for exclusives (which are few and far between this gen as it is), so no thanks.

 

[foamdino]

"pretty pointless".

PS4 Pro covered a mere 10% of sales, mostly double-dippers and easier to market/sell (4K and PSVR primarily).

This gen is entirely different.

I thought it was around 20% of sales (still low)

This low fraction of sales is why I think when designing it they will be conscious of this fact and hence design it to use cost effective parts (ie memory type that is sold in vast quantities, zen2 based cpu [older fab process] etc) to take advantage of economies of scale where possible.

 

[Unknown?]

Xbox should expect more than a 40% decline if PS5 Pro and Switch 2 release this year. It will be the whole talk of the town between those two.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I thought it was around 20% of sales (still low)

This low fraction of sales is why I think when designing it they will be conscious of this fact and hence design it to use cost effective parts (ie memory type that is sold in vast quantities, zen2 based cpu [older fab process] etc) to take advantage of economies of scale where possible.

I believe it was 14M out of 117M total.

So about ~12%.

This time there is even less incentive to buy one and the economy is terrible.

 

[foamdino]

I believe it was 14M out of 117M total.

So about ~12%.

This time there is even less incentive to buy one and the economy is terrible.

Oh yeah, it is definitely a luxury item, but then they managed to sell the Portal and that is like uber-luxury given it's niche uses

 

[mckmas8808]

Sony has way too much inventory on hand and in the market to release this anytime before the holidays... it's unfortunate. Would have loved to get this early.

Before the holidays? Why? That would be nuts!!!

Not really, it's just BS rumors.
We had an potato photo and real specs at this point with the PS4 Pro

BS rumors? LOL! The PS5 Pro is coming bro.

lol at the "we don't need pro" takes, its beyond stupid at this point.
there are games down to 900p base res, and probably will go lower going forward.

if you are fine with it, good. nobody is forcing you to upgrade. don't see anyone complaining about yearly gpu releases.

this'll be the final nail on series coffin, because of their stupid 2-tier launch gamble. their boxes became low-end-x and trash-tier-s mid gen. its not sony's fault.
i think thats the reason for the most of the noise, just veiled console warring.

The bolded is so true. Just more console warring.

"pretty pointless".

PS4 Pro covered a mere 10% of sales, mostly double-dippers and easier to market/sell (4K and PSVR primarily).

This gen is entirely different.

Not true. It was 14% of all PS4 sales. But it sold 26% of all PS4 sales (if you start counting both consoles sales from the release of the PS4 Pro). So once released the PS4 Pro sold 1 out of every 4 PS4s sold. How is that considered "pretty pointless"?

 

[Urban]

1440p/60fps or no buy

 

[MisterXDTV]

I believe it was 14M out of 117M total.

So about ~12%.

This time there is even less incentive to buy one and the economy is terrible.

It always depends on how much it costs to Sony to make it....

If producing a PS5 Pro in 2024 costs about the same of a PS5 in 2020, then it's a no brainer for them to make it even if it sells 10% of the base model....

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Before the holidays? Why? That would be nuts!!!

Like I said, would have loved to get this early. I think sales are going to be really dry this summer. This could have avoided that.

You would have had people who want the pro unit or want to upgrade to it purchasing it and a flood of used PS5s on the market that could have run through into the holidays.

 

[mckmas8808]

Oh yeah, it is definitely a luxury item, but then they managed to sell the Portal and that is like uber-luxury given it's niche uses

He's WRONG!!!

These were the numbers.....

PS4: 105.3 million (including 14.3 million PS4 Pro) as of 19th Jan 2020.


PS4 released in 2013
PS4 sales were at 50 million Dec 2016 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ga...s-sold-as-of-december-6-2016-sony-1635203/amp)

PS4 Pro launched in 2016.
By 2020, there were combined sales of both platforms totalling 110 million (https://hypebeast.com/2020/5/sony-playstation-4-110-million-sales-game-boy-color-consoles)

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Not true. It was 14% of all PS4 sales. But it sold 26% of all PS4 sales (if you start counting both consoles sales from the release of the PS4 Pro). So once released the PS4 Pro sold 1 out of every 4 PS4s sold. How is that considered "pretty pointless"?

I was going by this thread, so:

PS4 Pro sold 14.3 million as of Jan 2020 - does this make a compelling case to continue with the strategy?

Thats 14 million that could have switched to pc. Worth it. Agreed, I don't even fucking understand the point of this thread lol Like, sold 14 million, would they want 14 million more PS5 sales? lol I mean.....where the fuck would it make sense to say no? What on Earth would the argument...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Mibu no ookami]

They don’t break their expenditures and yet their margins are record low while the hardware is wildly successful.

And their financial report states that they're taking a loss on hardware, so the more hardware you sell... the worse your margins on hardware are...

We also don't know what they are spending on hardware R&D whether it be for the PS6 and/or a handheld.

We have no idea if they're spending money on PSVR3 or a PC Storefront.

All of this stuff adds up.

Edit: Not to mention a pipeline of movies and tv shows.

 

[damidu]

I believe it was 14M out of 117M total.

So about ~12%.

This time there is even less incentive to buy one and the economy is terrible.

basically %26 of sales after nov2016(launch) were pros.
if you consider the target audience is more paying more hardcore crowd, they are probably fine with the figures.
hence why they are doing it again.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Don't worry, guys. The PS5 Pro will fix everything.

Fix what? Sony's biggest year in terms of home consoles sold?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

basically %26 of sales after nov2016(launch) were pros.
if you consider the target audience is more paying more hardcore crowd, they are probably fine with the figures.
hence why they are doing it again.

Well, if I were running a company, I'd look at the total sales over the entire gen, since next-gen will be only a couple of years behind a Pro-console.

 

[Xtib81]

Not really, it's just BS rumors.
We had an potato photo and real specs at this point with the PS4 Pro

BS rumors ? You mean info from reliable sources that, for example, leaked the portal when nobody even considered Sony could release such an accessory.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Fix what? Sony's biggest year in terms of home consoles sold?

Crazy how this just flies right over heads. The system is about to sell 21 million consoles in a calendar year. Only top selling consoles have ever done anything like that. Sony's 25 million forecast was the highest they've ever chased after. It was a huge amount! They'll still have one of the biggest periods for a console .....ever. The fact that anyone can spin it negative is a testament to just how much people want something they don't like to fail.

 

[phant0m]

Whatever price point it is, it needs to run all the games in “quality” mode at 60fps.

 

[StereoVsn]

PS5 haz no gamez!

PS5 is doomed!

Helldivers 2, Rise of the Ronin, FFVII Rebirth, Stellar Blade, MLB, Destiny The Final Shape, Until Dawn Remake and Concord, the game made by Halo, Destiny, CoD and many other top shooter creators don't exist!

We're in February but nobody will announce any PS5 game to be released the rest of the year!

Am I doing it right?


For extra horsepower differentiation it could be $599 wihout disk reader, you could use the attachable one from the normal PS5.

I think the horsepower difference between PS4 and PS4 Pro was too small. I think this time they could introduce a bigger difference in horserpower and price to make it more appealing to hardcore users who want to push beyond and spend more, as a very small portion of PC gamers do.

Biggest issue is the rumored Zen 2 CPU. That right there will limit a lot of newer games on the frame rate side.

 

[Raven117]

I will try to score a good trade-in at GameStop as usual....

My PS5 will be 4 years old when this comes out, it's out of warranty. It's a no brainer to upgrade if the price is right

It’s this.

I don’t particularly want a ps5 pro. But if you can get a high trade in value… pick one up for say 100-200 bucks more after trade in, why not?

 

[StereoVsn]

Well, if I were running a company, I'd look at the total sales over the entire gen, since next-gen will be only a couple of years behind a Pro-console.

Rumored PS6 launch is 2028. So that would be 3.5 years give or take. It absolutely makes sense to drum up a bit of excitement for the hardware for power users.

25% of ongoing sales for an upgrade product isn’t too shabby at all. Especially if it keeps their core users more on PS5 vs going to PC.

 

[Euler007]

I wonder if the source for the article is Neogaf/Era. Wow at the negativism, this gen was the best transition ever. Full access to my PS4 library, versions that run at 60fps, and a steady stream of bangers. Some of y'all will bitch about anything.

 

[Senua]

Crazy how this just flies right over heads. The system is about to sell 21 million consoles in a calendar year. Only top selling consoles have ever done anything like that. Sony's 25 million forecast was the highest they've ever chased after. It was a huge amount! They'll still have one of the biggest periods for a console .....ever. The fact that anyone can spin it negative is a testament to just how much people want something they don't like to fail.

All this from a comment that was obviously in jest

 

[saintjules]

If they don't plan to cut the price of the base PS5, then I'm expecting the Pro to be at $599USD in the least.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Xbox should expect more than a 40% decline if PS5 Pro and Switch 2 release this year. It will be the whole talk of the town between those two.

Why do you think they're preemptively talking about next-gen? They're going to continue to try to stay in the hardware conversation we'll see if it works

 

[HeWhoWalks]

All this from a comment that was obviously in jest

Eh, his may be, but that sentiment has been rampant since the financials dropped.

 

[Hudo]

Fix what? Sony's biggest year in terms of home consoles sold?

Everything

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Historically consoles get cheaper over time. Not yet this gen.

And the last time MS and Sony did a refresh the OG systems got cheaper and the new system got its price.

If the latest trend due to costs is the Og system has to stick with its price and a new system costs more, I’ll guess the refresh costs +$150 US. I don’t think a $100 boost will get enough specs power to be worth it. Heck maybe it’ll be +$200.

 

[MisterXDTV]

If the latest trend due to costs is the Og system has to stick with its price and a new system costs more, I’ll guess the refresh costs +$150 US. I don’t think a $100 boost will get enough specs power to be worth it. Heck maybe it’ll be +$200.

I keep reading this and I don't get it...

Why would Sony release a $699 mid-gen console with no exclusive software????

It doesn't make any sense.

My idea is that the BOM of PS5 Pro will not be much higher than what the OG PS5 was 4 years ago....

There's no question that the PS5 Slim will get cheaper once PS5 Pro release...

Maybe they can't drop the price as much as they could in the past, but it will get cheaper

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

1440p/60fps or no buy

GTAVI 60fps or no buy.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Historically consoles get cheaper over time. Not yet this gen.

And the last time MS and Sony did a refresh the OG systems got cheaper and the new system got its price.

If the latest trend due to costs is the Og system has to stick with its price and a new system costs more, I’ll guess the refresh costs +$150 US. I don’t think a $100 boost will get enough specs power to be worth it. Heck maybe it’ll be +$200.

The only thing that’s changing is the GPU, so $100 should cover the extra cost

I expect $599 for the Pro which will be digital only

Technically that is $150 extra

I really with base consoles were designed so that you could swap out the APU at a later date instead of replacing the entire system.

 

[AngelMuffin]

If they release it, I wonder how much it will cost and how much they expect to sell.

PS5 sales already slow down at €550 and Sony stated that lowering the price will be difficult.

 

[RoadHazard]

"So far, Sony launched a slightly upgraded PS5 last year"

Upgraded how? I guess the SSD is a bit larger? Other than that it's just a bit smaller and a lot uglier.

"...as well as a handheld console called the PlayStation Portal"

I mean, not really.

 

[MisterXDTV]

"So far, Sony launched a slightly upgraded PS5 last year"

Upgraded how? I guess the SSD is a bit larger? Other than that it's just a bit smaller and a lot uglier.

"...as well as a handheld console called the PlayStation Portal"

I mean, not really.

Exactly,

They released an hardware revision of PS5, but still the same specs and a Wii U Gamepad 2.0 (AKA an accessory)

 

[Iced Arcade]

If real, it would be great for GTA6, this is certain.

Oh wait, my bad. Sony dooooooooomed!!!

Did Rockstar optimize GTA5 for the PS4 Pro/One X?

Never played 5 on them.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

PS5 haz no gamez!

PS5 is doomed!

Helldivers 2, Rise of the Ronin, FFVII Rebirth, Stellar Blade, MLB, Destiny The Final Shape, Until Dawn Remake and Concord, the game made by Halo, Destiny, CoD and many other top shooter creators don't exist!

We're in February but nobody will announce any PS5 game to be released the rest of the year!

Am I doing it right?


For extra horsepower differentiation it could be $599 wihout disk reader, you could use the attachable one from the normal PS5.

I think the horsepower difference between PS4 and PS4 Pro was too small. I think this time they could introduce a bigger difference in horserpower and price to make it more appealing to hardcore users who want to push beyond and spend more, as a very small portion of PC gamers do.

The current head of Sony already said PlayStation does not "plan to release any new major existing franchise titles before April 2025".

The games you mentioned aren't the type of games people buy consoles for. Also your $599 price isn't realistic if the pro is actually going to provide a noticeable leap over the OG PS5.

If a PS5 pro happens I can see it releasing next year or close to the release of GTA 6 and their next big AAA exclusive.

 

[angrod14]

I want Abby in 4K 120 fps. Make it happen, Sony.

 

[damidu]

Did Rockstar optimize GTA5 for the PS4 Pro/One X?

Never played 5 on them.

no i think, but it was released couple years before pro.
if it was released afterwards, it had to release with a pro version. pretty sure there aren't any games releasing after pro and not supporting it.
probably a clause on sony's part

rdr2 is better example in that sense, since gta6 will be out sometime after ps5pro

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

How would they even market it?

"Pay €100 more for more stable 60fps gaming and basic RT"?

I still think it's pretty pointless to release a Pro version.

Agreed

But this is what I realized from seeing the responses here on Gaf, a lot of people have zero interest in buying a PC so in order for them to get better performance on console they need the PS5 pro to happen and for that reason alone I think it will happen because sony knows this.

Investing in a new ps5 is silly imo because the number of sony games released this gen has been terrible plus better performance at a lower price can be had on a PC.... but to each his own.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Agreed

But this is what I realized from seeing the responses here on Gaf, a lot of people have zero interest in buying a PC so in order for them to get better performance on console they need the PS5 pro to happen and for that reason alone I think it will happen because sony knows this.

Investing in a new ps5 is silly imo because the number of sony games released this gen has been terrible plus better performance at a lower price can be had on a PC.... but to each his own.

I have a 4090 gaming PC that is my main gaming machine but will 100% be buying the PS5 Pro as I still want the best experience I can get when I play on consoles

 

[Uhtred]

They fooled me with the ps4 pro. They won't fool me again. Mid gen upgrades are not really worth it if you already have the base console... well that is until I see the spec bump officially and then I get excited and then I buy it and then yes... they got me again.

I hear you, but I thought the Xbox One X was worth the upgrade. It was very noticeable.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I have a 4090 gaming PC that is my main gaming machine but will 100% be buying the PS5 Pro as I still want the best experience I can get when I play on consoles

 

[Shake Your Rump]

I wonder if the source for the article is Neogaf/Era. Wow at the negativism, this gen was the best transition ever. Full access to my PS4 library, versions that run at 60fps, and a steady stream of bangers. Some of y'all will bitch about anything.

It an easy to transition when almost every game is just a PS4 game running at higher resolution.

 

[TheMan]

Yeah not sure what the point of this is.

I’ll probably upgrade my PC instead. 2070 is strains with some sims in VR

 

[DeepEnigma]

Not just GTA 6

What if the Pro could enhance every game on its own with very little extra work, if any, from devs

Like their proprietary AI/DLSS solution?

Tell me more!

 

[mckmas8808]

I was going by this thread, so:

PS4 Pro sold 14.3 million as of Jan 2020 - does this make a compelling case to continue with the strategy?

Thats 14 million that could have switched to pc. Worth it. Agreed, I don't even fucking understand the point of this thread lol Like, sold 14 million, would they want 14 million more PS5 sales? lol I mean.....where the fuck would it make sense to say no? What on Earth would the argument...

www.neogaf.com

Exactly! And you misremembered the data from that thread.