In that case...
*Neiteio re-imagines the prior imaginings, but adds frame drops here and there*
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RUMOR: NX more powerful than PS4, Splatoon/Mario Maker ports in development
- Thread starter Spyder_Monkey
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*Neiteio re-imagines the prior imaginings, but adds frame drops here and there*
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
What if Retro's game is another 2D Donkey Kong but they go the Conker route and it's dirty and stars Cranky???
Make your imaginigs run at sub-30 fps and you've got a stew going.
Don't be silly, Nintendo is so focused on performance they'll even reduce the amount of shaders on Luigi's mustache if it means a solid framerate.
well, it was a joke, but after digging out that FF chart, I'm not sure anymore lol.
I really can't see it outdoing 13, especially with like a half million or likely more negative handicap off the bat, due to japan. And who knows how Xbox1 will compare to 360.
But if there's a PC release and stuff, then maybe it can.
I guess this is more NPD and media create discussion though.
I wonder if a hyrule warriors port is probable in 2017. It'd be nice to buy the game if it had everything.
Cross gen port to me sounds like a Wii U game they ported over to NX with minimal improvement. Like Smash. I think the main platform for the new Zelda will be the NX and use whatever it's features are. They will then find a way to down port it to Wii U, even if the performance is quite to Nintendo's normal standards. As long as the NX version does.
Dat typo. Supposed to say "thread" not "these". I fixed it. Lol.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
E3.
Yeah, but Trev had a dedicated site, an youtube channel. There is a bit of logic in it. In the end it backfired for him especially because he was a small player. But I guess the leaker was afraid that the big sites will snitch on him. Or he was a known figure for them.
Plus Trev has provided proof beyond doubt for his leak.
This makes even less believable the fact that someone who has access to the GPU architecture is leaking it. There are too few less relevant info leaked for such a big info leak to happen.
Do you doubt Orgen?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198876118&postcount=5861
I doubt his uh...distribution channels had much to do with it. It's not like rumors have a hard time gaining publicity as we've seen.
I would like a controller that can stream games from the home console while on the move, like a good version of the Playstation app. It would also make sense as they already partially have the streaming tech, and as said it already works for Playstation.
But it doesn't make sense to me as the main gimmick, because then the main gimmick would be eating into their own portable market, which is their only profitable market.
But it doesn't make sense to me as the main gimmick, because then the main gimmick would be eating into their own portable market, which is their only profitable market.
I was thinking more about sometime 2017 though.
Then it should be 3D, not 2D.
Hoping before E3 in a mega direct since E3 is irrelevant as shown by Sony and MS and their reveals. Expecting E3 though.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Inkling, Geno, Takamaru, Ice Climbers, Wolf, Snake, Rhythm Heaven, 7th Gen Starter (Grass), more! MORE STAGES! and new mode(s). Maybe Ridley because people wouldn't stop asking for him!
I don't really want to see Mario Kart 8 ports at all. I really love the game and I have been playing with Mario Kart GAF constantly but I think it's time for us to move away from Mario Kart 8. Also I still believe that they are working on Mario Kart 9 right now.
Actually, Smash 4 hype train already surpassed Brawl hype train by big time due to NeoGAF's growth. Also this thread isn't even there yet, not even close to Brawl.
Graphics Horse
Member
Definitely before E3 opens.
eh, can't see that.
I except a normal zelda performance for the Wii U. 30fps with drops depending on the location/action. 720p but it'll look nice and have the needed effects and stuff. I don't see a Hyrule warrirors 3ds situation.
The game will be Wii U oriented imo. The NX version will have a resolution bump, but no added shaders, lighting effects, etc. And it'll have a more stable 30 fps. That's my take.
Oh, neat. So we may be getting some more info before E3.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. And considering that MK8 support ended after Early 2015, Nintendo should in theory have Mario Kart 9 ready by 2017.
captjohnboyd
Member
I'm on mobile at work so I can't really search the thread effectively can someone fill me in on why 10K is being doubted so heavily now? It seems like it's more so now than the regular amount that was being thrown around before he got verified by the mods. Did something happen to disprove or cast doubt on some of his statements?
Graphics Horse
Member
I just recieved a tweet from my alt account saying they are NOT working on Mario Kart 9 right now.
They gave everyone the weekend off.
They gave everyone the weekend off.
CosmicQueso
Member
Hey any word on whether the Wii U power cable will work with the NX or will I have to buy a new one?
I'm guessing it'll be like the N3DS and not include a power cable??
I'm guessing it'll be like the N3DS and not include a power cable??
Hopefully before. I'm still hoping for a reveal at the end of this month/early May,
The Hype High has worn off and people are putting on their skepticism hats. The idea of a modern, powerful, expensive nintendo console is doubtful in the eyes of many.
I read that with Luigi 's voice.
I don't doubt him. Just seems weird that the NX is going to be revealed in a PowerPoint presentation at an investors breifing lol
More likely a sequel if anything. Else we should expect a Mario Kart 8 with all the DLC or Pikmin 3 with all the DLC, the only time such a thing has happened was with NSMBU+NSLU and for a long while it was only with a console bundle.
Day before nintendo E3 reveal hype! /s
How Nintendo almost ruined Christmas 2
Dark Cloud
Member
It makes sense to be revealed before E3. Nintendo has nothing to talk about after Star Fox releases to E3. The next thing they would have to talk about is Zelda U and NX. So yes I know (my opinion) we will get NX info and reveal prior to Nintendos E3 conference (my opinion they're doing a conference).
AcademicSaucer
Member
I think we can safely say that all the "insiders" that said mid april announcement of the reveal event are fake right?
So, it might be a handheld after all.
Coulda said that just by reading their posts.
I laughed at the mid-April stuff because it wouldn't come before their investors meeting.
No one needs to have access to the GPU architecture, they just need access to the APIs which anyone with an SDK would have and should be able to suss out GCN generation based on feature sets available and calls of the coding, and any other information included in the developer tools and information.
And this the type of info you would get from just limited API access, notice how nothing is actually being said about performance raws, means, or theoreticals, just functionalities and feature sets. The point I was making was that no one was even hinting at this going one way or another, meaning people (others with the SDKs or more) are being mum.
He's making a joke. There is no known handheld launching this year even from NoA's internal marketing leak.
Honestly, do you blame them though?
Nintendo is not a company that focuses on power. I still find it hard to envision that the NX could even be as powerful as the Xbox One. I'm expecting Nintendo to still slack behind in the tech front.
Also, the supposed game lineup very much looks like a wet dream.
It was delayed early 2015, most likely due to NX IMO. I can't see it having two year of dev time with NX and only seeing a resolution bump. I just can't seeing it be a straight port. We will see!
Just wanted to respond to a few posts on the topic of the Primitive Discard Accelerator, and how it relates to Polaris and 14nm.
Just to clarify here, the quote in 10k's post describing the Primitive Discard Accelerator isn't from his source, it's from me (and I'm definitely not any kind of insider). His source had told him that the GPU featured new features like the PDA (which AMD has publicly listed as one of the new features in Polaris), and asked me what the PDA does, and whether it could be used in a 28nm GPU.
I should also note that although AMD have listed PDA as one of the new features in their Polaris presentation, they haven't given any details on what it does or how it does it, so my description of its use is purely my own assumption based on the name of the feature, although I can't really see how the words "primitive discard accelerator" could mean anything very different from what I described.
The "developer" also gave a description of what the PDA does and why it's useful, which ties in pretty much exactly with my understanding of how it would work. Which doesn't necessarily mean that the rumour is true, but it does mean that the person making the claim at least has a decent understanding of real-time 3D graphics.
In any case, the reason for discussing the PDA isn't that it's necessarily a revolutionary feature (although it could certainly be useful), but that if the source is real, then the GPU has at least some Polaris features, and is therefore very likely to be manufactured on 14nm.
If true, then it would be reasonable to assume that it has at least some other Polaris features, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee that it has all of them. For example, let's say the improved Command Processor, Geometry Processor and PDA for Polaris had all been all-but finished in late 2014 when work on NX started, but the improved CUs weren't finished until much later. It possible that Nintendo would have been able to make use of several of the new features of Polaris, but would still use GCN 1.2-era CUs. Both PS4 and XBO's APUs sort of sit between generations like this, so it wouldn't be all that out of the ordinary. On the other hand, there are reports that Polaris has been pretty much finished for a long time now, and was delayed first by the abandonment of 20nm and secondly by the slow growth in 14nm yields. In that case Nintendo may have had almost the entire suite of Polaris features to use when building the NX chip.
The other thing I'd like to mention here is that wccftech's description of the Primitive Discard Accelerator here is actually wrong, at least as far as my understanding goes. They claim it will be used to implement conservative rasterisation (a new DX12 technique which currently only works on Nvidia cards), although there's nothing about conservative rasterisation which I would describe as "discarding primitives". In fact, one of the main use cases of conservative rasterisation (ray-traced shadows) uses it for precisely the opposite effect, in preventing sub-pixel triangles from being thrown away.
The reason I bring this up is that wccftech is a tech website that's heavily focussed on graphics technology. If they can get something like this wrong, then it's all the more impressive that someone claiming to have insider information would get it right. That doesn't mean it's any more than a rumour, but there's a relatively high threshold of knowledge on the part of anyone trying to fake this.
As mentioned above, I wouldn't consider a Primitive Discard Accelerator a major feature (although it could be a useful one), just that the source claimed that NX has it, which would indicate that the NX APU is on 14nm and using a Polaris-based GPU.
That said, although you're right in that GPUs do implement small-triangle culling, orientation culling, etc. all in hardware, they only do it at the rasterisation stage (and afaik this is true for both AMD and Nvidia). What this means is that the triangle has to run through the geometry front-end, the vertex shaders and the rasteriser before it actually gets thrown out. Even if we're just talking about orientation culling, regardless of what kind of game it is or how well optimised your engine is, that means that you're wasting about half of the throughput of your geometry front-end on unnecessary triangles and you're doubling your vertex shading workload without benefit. If you bring that culling right to the very start of the pipeline then you stand to make some fairly nice efficiency gains, and small-triangle, frustum and high-Z culling could also stand to benefit (although these will be more dependent on how well optimised games already are in each regard).
I'd recommend having a read through the slides of a recent GDC talk given by one of Frostbite's senior rendering engineers (PDF link here). It does a good job of running through the benefits of early culling on GCN-based hardware, and the performance gains from Frostbite's compute shader solution. They also implement occlusion culling in their solution, but I wouldn't expect to see acceleration for that at the front of the pipeline, due to it requiring pre-Z. That said, I could certainly see developers being happy about a solution which brings efficient orientation culling and small-triangle culling to the start of the pipeline. If you're working on a game where geometry throughput is your main bottleneck (say an open-world game with sub-optimal LOD) then it could make your life quite a bit easier.
Just to clarify here, the quote in 10k's post describing the Primitive Discard Accelerator isn't from his source, it's from me (and I'm definitely not any kind of insider). His source had told him that the GPU featured new features like the PDA (which AMD has publicly listed as one of the new features in Polaris), and asked me what the PDA does, and whether it could be used in a 28nm GPU.
I should also note that although AMD have listed PDA as one of the new features in their Polaris presentation, they haven't given any details on what it does or how it does it, so my description of its use is purely my own assumption based on the name of the feature, although I can't really see how the words "primitive discard accelerator" could mean anything very different from what I described.
The "developer" also gave a description of what the PDA does and why it's useful, which ties in pretty much exactly with my understanding of how it would work. Which doesn't necessarily mean that the rumour is true, but it does mean that the person making the claim at least has a decent understanding of real-time 3D graphics.
In any case, the reason for discussing the PDA isn't that it's necessarily a revolutionary feature (although it could certainly be useful), but that if the source is real, then the GPU has at least some Polaris features, and is therefore very likely to be manufactured on 14nm.
If true, then it would be reasonable to assume that it has at least some other Polaris features, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee that it has all of them. For example, let's say the improved Command Processor, Geometry Processor and PDA for Polaris had all been all-but finished in late 2014 when work on NX started, but the improved CUs weren't finished until much later. It possible that Nintendo would have been able to make use of several of the new features of Polaris, but would still use GCN 1.2-era CUs. Both PS4 and XBO's APUs sort of sit between generations like this, so it wouldn't be all that out of the ordinary. On the other hand, there are reports that Polaris has been pretty much finished for a long time now, and was delayed first by the abandonment of 20nm and secondly by the slow growth in 14nm yields. In that case Nintendo may have had almost the entire suite of Polaris features to use when building the NX chip.
The other thing I'd like to mention here is that wccftech's description of the Primitive Discard Accelerator here is actually wrong, at least as far as my understanding goes. They claim it will be used to implement conservative rasterisation (a new DX12 technique which currently only works on Nvidia cards), although there's nothing about conservative rasterisation which I would describe as "discarding primitives". In fact, one of the main use cases of conservative rasterisation (ray-traced shadows) uses it for precisely the opposite effect, in preventing sub-pixel triangles from being thrown away.
The reason I bring this up is that wccftech is a tech website that's heavily focussed on graphics technology. If they can get something like this wrong, then it's all the more impressive that someone claiming to have insider information would get it right. That doesn't mean it's any more than a rumour, but there's a relatively high threshold of knowledge on the part of anyone trying to fake this.
As mentioned above, I wouldn't consider a Primitive Discard Accelerator a major feature (although it could be a useful one), just that the source claimed that NX has it, which would indicate that the NX APU is on 14nm and using a Polaris-based GPU.
That said, although you're right in that GPUs do implement small-triangle culling, orientation culling, etc. all in hardware, they only do it at the rasterisation stage (and afaik this is true for both AMD and Nvidia). What this means is that the triangle has to run through the geometry front-end, the vertex shaders and the rasteriser before it actually gets thrown out. Even if we're just talking about orientation culling, regardless of what kind of game it is or how well optimised your engine is, that means that you're wasting about half of the throughput of your geometry front-end on unnecessary triangles and you're doubling your vertex shading workload without benefit. If you bring that culling right to the very start of the pipeline then you stand to make some fairly nice efficiency gains, and small-triangle, frustum and high-Z culling could also stand to benefit (although these will be more dependent on how well optimised games already are in each regard).
I'd recommend having a read through the slides of a recent GDC talk given by one of Frostbite's senior rendering engineers (PDF link here). It does a good job of running through the benefits of early culling on GCN-based hardware, and the performance gains from Frostbite's compute shader solution. They also implement occlusion culling in their solution, but I wouldn't expect to see acceleration for that at the front of the pipeline, due to it requiring pre-Z. That said, I could certainly see developers being happy about a solution which brings efficient orientation culling and small-triangle culling to the start of the pipeline. If you're working on a game where geometry throughput is your main bottleneck (say an open-world game with sub-optimal LOD) then it could make your life quite a bit easier.
I don't blame them for being skeptical. I'm doubting the Polaris thing pretty heavily myself.
I do expect parity with Xbone/PS4 tho, based on everything we're hearing.
edit: Yay Thraktor
True...
but the thing is: do we know that Zelda U was delayed only because of NX?
It's possible, but that Late 2014 VGA footage looked kinda rough and unpolished. And they purposely had that view and not a direct feed. Maybe the game was gonna be delayed regardless of NX.
I'm looking forward to the console myself, and will likely buy into it regardless. If it does have parity with current-gen, I'll be damn happy but it's not something I can fully expect as of yet.
Also, with all these leaks, it's hard to believe anything!
CosmicQueso
Member
That one was for you. Glad you caught it <3
LordOfChaos
Member
This is true, it's not uncommon for console GPUs to sit between generations. Xenos with unified shaders, PS4 with 8 ACEs, etc.
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