They can't just install a game on an SD card and call it day. There are other costs to consider as well, such as encryption and making it read-only (or only writable by the console in what you think will happen). That could easily double that, which is several times more expensive than a disc.
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RUMOR: NX more powerful than PS4, Splatoon/Mario Maker ports in development
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They can't just install a game on an SD card and call it day. There are other costs to consider as well, such as encryption and making it read-only (or only writable by the console in what you think will happen). That could easily double that, which is several times more expensive than a disc.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
BR disc like costs are cheap as fuck. SD cards even in bulk at the sizes needed for something that was gonna run games comparable to current PS4/Bone/PC sizes would be fucking a shit ton more. You think Activision or Rockstar are gonna Just eat that cost? LoL
Dark Cloud
Member
This SCD sounds like it will solve all the problems.Rösti;201261072 said:
Skittzo0413
Member
The point of cartridges over discs is that there would be absolutely no need to install games like XB1 and PS4 third party games, since they are fully present on the cartridge. Big download patches are definitely something to think about, but the cartridges could come with a separate storage area for patches/DLC. Like E-phonk detailed below, 64gb cartridges are not as expensive as they once were, and Nintendo has been dealing with Macronix for years now and knows how to negotiate prices with them.
Also I doubt they'll be completely getting rid of a hard drive in every console, I just think they can get by with a relatively small and cheap amount of storage like they did with the Wii U.
This too. Terrell's post about cartridge shipping cost is both fascinating and encouraging.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
It also needs to be high speed. So cheap lower class SD cards wouldn't apply. Remember this was one of the reasons Sony said it went proprietary. They said regular cards weren't fast enough in their minds. (Take that as you will).
Well, if I'm going all digital, cartridges + no hard drive offer me no benefit whatsoever, not to mention manufacturing costs on cartridges are typically much much more than printing a disc, by a considerable margin. This means less money for publishers per physical copy printed, unless nintendo is willing to eat that price difference.
The *main* reason I can see cartridges ever being a thing is if both the handheld and console versions of NX can run many of the same actual games and you can just take the cartridge from one and put it in the other. Other than that, I think discs make too much economical sense for a console. "not needing to install" is not really that great of a benefit, especially since we're coming off wii u which also didn't need to install. Also, I'm pretty sure i've played several PS4 games that required no install whatsoever. I just threw ratchet and clank into my PS4 yesterday and I was able to boot the game up immediately.
Also, this is all ignoring whatever stigma cartridges on a console would bring. Cartridges are considered a relic of the past or for use on handheld games.
Terrell (i think) did a calculation on how much Nintendo would save (!) by going with cards. Since Nintendo could use a much smaller case than the classic DVD box. They would be able to save enormous amounts on stocking and shipping as well on the production of the cases..
Don't some games install while you play?
Not sure, I'd have to check and see how much hard disk space ratchet is taking up.
Skittzo0413
Member
I suppose the "benefit" an all digital customer gets is that the lack of large HDD and disc drive either makes the console base cheaper, more powerful, or possibly both.
The way I see it (purely 100% hypothetical), you can pay $399 for a PS4 level console with a 500GB HDD and knock-off blu-ray drive, or you can pay $349 for a PS4k level console with 64GB HDD and no optical drive, with the option to buy a $25 500GB HDD or even $75 1TB. Again, I don't really know what a HDD would cost from Nintendo but from just looking around google 1TB HDDs run for between $50-75.
Is this enough of a benefit for those going digital? Would it make the console more appealing overall? I don't know, but I just think it's definitely an option we can consider.
DownGrader
Member
Damn, this is the best post I've read on GAF.
I think digital only people would want erverything in one package. A bundle with a seperate hdd could be something they want.
So is a new GamePad completely out of the question?
That'd be neat, but I think nowadays a console maker going back to cartridges wouldn't be very well received even if it was for the better...
That'd be neat, but I think nowadays a console maker going back to cartridges wouldn't be very well received even if it was for the better...
Boy Wander
Member
That only makes any sense if they've once again blown all of their budget on an expensive gimmick. You'd have to be actually actively trying to under perform the Xbone.
I'm looking forward the the first grainy picture of the devkit PSU, so we can restart the Great Uninformed TDP Debates of 2012™
You have to assume nintendo would use something proprietary (like 3DS carts) and could get a deal directly from the manufacturer. I'd assume somewhere in the range of that 6.50 quote. That said, blurays probably cost significantly less to print. DVDs were down to pennies a disc by the mid 2000s, i'm sure blurays are about that, nearly a decade after launch.
DownGrader
Member
I think it all boils down to the marketing, PR and a bit of industrial design. There are no obvious (to the average Joe) advantages of one media format over the other one like it was in the 90s, and Nintendo can make a spin and present their carts as "Hi-Speed Game Cards NX Plus Alpha: The Media of The Future" if it wants.
What?
Oh I'm sure they would be next to nothing for Nintendo and like I said when carts were "prohibitively" expensive they cost up to $55 a cart which even the most ridiculous estimates this would be less than that.
It's not 2001 anymore. Basically everything and everybody is moving away from discs. Music? Ipod, smartphones, Spotify... Movies? On demand, Netflix... Many laptops don't even have a dvd/br reader/writer anymore. Discs are becoming obsolete fast.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
You'd be looking at $2 more per game even if you go with his #s. Who's gonna eat that $2? Activision or EA or Ubi? Lmfao keep dreaming.
Captain Smoker
Member
That's right.
I threw away 70% of my discs because I have no use for them.
Streaming + fast flash drives (or other memory storage) is the future.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
This. It's as if people are forgetting why a lot of developers and publishers jumped on PS1 in the first place.
Nintendo aren't in a position to be making publishers pay extra royalties because they want to cut costs on storage media. Blu-ray or GTFO.
And which of those devices are moving toward cartridges?
They jumped ship because there was about a $54 difference between releasing a PS1 disc and an N64 cartridge not a $2 one.
Also read above about how carts reduce shipping costs.
Zevenberge
Member
So I've been trying to read up during work, but a lot has happened. Is it all over now?
Also, I am all in for the return of the cartridge as main game storage medium. On-cart Nvidea's for that extra power.
Also, I am all in for the return of the cartridge as main game storage medium. On-cart Nvidea's for that extra power.
Captain Smoker
Member
While I also don't believe in the cartridge thing:
Nintendo could reduce it's royalty share as a platform holder, so it's basically the same for 3rd party publishers.
Edit: And read the post above.
Nintendo could always just reduce their royalty take to eat the cartridge production cost.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
So we have to spend money on an extra SKU, oh, and we'll also need to fork out more cash to pay for cart royalties on a game that may bomb. That will surely go down will with the big guys.
If they're willing to take the loss there, then sure. I still don't see the point, even with Terrell's extremely well done post.
While I also don't believe in the cartridge thing:
Nintendo could decrease it's share as a platform holder, so it's basically the same for 3rd party publishers.
Edit: And read the post above.
In the NES era, when nintendo was king, I'm sure they made the publishers eat the manufacturing cost. Today? Pretty sure nintendo would volunteer to eat it and maybe some other costs as a way to persuade publishers to port for their system.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
That's a $2 difference WITH the reduced shipping, and that's not even taking into account the fact that the actual cost of a card for Nintendo's needs would be more expensive.
Skittzo0413
Member
One advantage I haven't seen anyone discussing is the possibility of having more than 1 cartridge inserted into the console at a time. Imagine 6 cartridges sticking out of 6 slots on top of the console- you get the digital benefit of being able to go back to the home screen and simply choosing one of the 6 games to play, rather than having to remove one cart and insert another.
Probably not a huge deal but it could be a neat marketing point.
They jumped ship because N64 carts were over 2000% more expensive than CDs.
I would disagree I think a custom card could be less expensive assuming price was taken into account from the beginning.
Bony Manifesto
Member
Er, are you sure about that? What type of ROM are you talking about?
In short: a PSU picture was leaked, and from that all manner of meltdowns, erroneous conclusions and vaguely informed debate bagan (complete with direct comparisons to PC builds) about the potential hardware inside WiiU based on the Wattage of the adaptor.
It was fun.
DownGrader
Member
Hmmm... I remember Nintendo toying with the idea of two game card slots during Nintendo DSi development but they dropped the idea in favour of DSiWare.
Six slots sound a little extensive, but two? Perfect. And Nintendo can use the spare slot for some accessories and leave USB ports for HDDs and Wii U accessories!
Herb Alpert
Banned
I think informations about that great debate are needed.
You have an extra SKU regardless if you are releasing on another system. And $2 difference won't make a dent in large publishers pockets it's also possible for Nintendo to eat the cost. Finally you seem to be operating under the assumption that they will over ship not sure why.
At this stage I think its looking like PS4 level GPU or maybe a little bit above with above XBox One level CPU, so best of both worlds.
Also as an aside I've never understood how something can hit XBox1/PS4 levels when those two consoles are different levels...
Pretty much. "Noticeably more powerful" than PS4 might be off the table depending on what she meant, and Emily's word leads me to believe that it might be weaker than PS4, but that's just the way I'm reading it for the sake of my sanity.
Edit; There, I clarified. Happy now?
Oh. Sounds like a ride.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
It's still an extra costs to publishers who have already shown they largely don't give a shit about supporting Nintendo due to smaller base and many of their fans only buying their games and actively disliking most AAA third party blockbusters.
Aside from that, publishers want to see more and more sales going digital where they get the largest profit margins, no worries of that person selling/trading/lending their copy and taking away potential other sales etc.
So I really don't see third parties being very open to any physical format on Nintendo that involves any royalties larger than what they pay Sony or MS.
Well, i still have a 32GB microSD card with all my music on in my smartphone. The fact is that, besides being "cheap" there are little advantages to use BR anymore. Cards are smaller (cheaper stocking, cheaper shipping, cheaper packaging), offer faster load times, don't require a bulky drive that consumes a lot of power, is prone to defect and makes noise. They can be offered in a wealth of storage sizes, not all games require 64GB 's. Meaning those will be a lot cheaper.
Skittzo0413
Member
I'm starting to wonder if the NX will end up being the ultimate "modular" console. We have patents about interchangeable buttons on controllers, supplemental computing devices which can take many different forms, and now we're speculating about multiple cartridge slots and other expansion pack type ideas.
I remember back in the Gamecube days how they had a LAN adaptor for the bottom of the console, which let you essentially play some games (Double Dash for me) on more than 2 Gamecubes and TVs. And we all know the N64 expansion pack and the SNES super fx chip.
Maybe this console will be based around many different modular parts that enhance various aspects, like storage, processing, control, even potentially in-game functions.
TAS
Member
Can you explain in further detail please? Genuinely curious.
You seem to be vastly over-estimating what a $2 difference does to a publisher and also seem to be ignoring the fact Nintendo could mitigate the cost in their regular licensing fees.
Also, are we just ignoring the 3DS here which already uses up to 8GB carts? Seems that defeats any argument that 3rd party publishers would refuse to use this significantly more expensive format.
DownGrader
Member
As long as it manages to avoid Wii U's glorious controller clusterfuck ("what controllers work for what player? why does this traditional controller doesn't work while the other one does?"), I'll be happy to see the idea in action.
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