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[pooh]

Frankly, these seem like positive technologies. The likes of which I am not used to from a Nintendo console. I hope it's true. I'm just waiting for the news that all this tech has to be worn like pants.

Prior to the Wii era, it seemed like Nintendo's "gimmicks" were invented to enhance the existing gameplay experience (shoulder buttons, analog stick for 3D, rumble pak, etc.). With the Wii and after, however, it seemed like the controller innovation came first, and then gameplay was created to make use of it. The Wii was obviously a huge success (for awhile), but I think this approach is much less of a natural evolution of console gaming, and so these ideas didn't stick nearly as well over the long term. I think things like SCDs, cross play, and freeform displays would fit in much better with the existing gaming market, making them more palatable for core gamers and third parties alike while still evolving the overall gaming experience.

 

[Schnozberry]

Were you around for the Wii-U speculation threads? Because the parallels are unbelievable.

I was not.

 

[sout]

I'm super curious if it'll support the Gamepad.
The more consoles Ninty puts out the weirder it's gunna start getting if they keep trying to have legacy stuff keep working. I suppose if it drops the "Wii" name it has less of an obligation to.

 

[LegendofLex]

http://time.com/4131306/nintendo-kimishima-interview/

You would think NX being more powerful than PS4 its not that weird when you are moving away from platforms like Wii and Wii U.

The problem with NX being more powerful than PS4 is it's not clear who that move would allow them to reach that the hypothetical PS4k wouldn't take from them anyway, and it's not at all clear that it would boost the popularity of their existing IP.

Wii U had tons of issues besides power that repelled people from purchasing it.

 

[-Horizon-]

If we seriously have to rebuy these remasters of Wii U games we bought over the past 1-2 years Nintendo has no fucking clue.

If reading some of these posts are any indication, a lot of people haven't played Wii U games but would like the opportunity to do so.
And if BC is out because it would have limited the console too much, then remasters are the only way.
And I think remasters would be fine for some of them like splatoon which is a huge new IP for nintendo that is a true console seller and Smash which just came out so the next Smash made specifically for NX might not be coming any time soon.

 

[Rodin]

Were you around for the Wii-U speculation threads? Because the parallels are unbelievable.

I wasn't on gaf but i followed the speculation on a daily basis, and i really don't see them.

 

[Raide]

Why would Capcom have any interest in bringing MH to consoles when they are making more and more money on handhelds, also Japan

Logically it would be money, since the install base of the home console would make a mainline MH game more than worth it and still have the spin-off X style version for handheld. Also, Nintendo IS the handheld market in Japan and the 3DS is showing its age. If they have a successor in the NX console/handheld, then it should be safe to assume that MH will look much better than its current incarnations.

 

[Principate]

Were you around for the Wii-U speculation threads? Because the parallels are unbelievable.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo is well are off the issues of the Wii U, they'd be incredible dumb to repeat the same mistake twice, plus their already on mobile which was previously seen as hearsy. It makes more sense for them to do this now, after being brought kicking and screaming.

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

The NX will be more powerful than PS4. But will it be more powerful than PS4.5?

 

[Ultra Numb]

I wonder if Online will still be free... hopefully it is with how barebones feature wise it is compared to the competition. However, it could be a great selling-point if they expanded on Miiverse, delivered a great online with most of the expected features, free of charge.

 

[Bolivar687]

I'm sure this has been asked, so sorry if a repeat.

If NX is more powerful across the board than PS4 doesn't it mean, given Nintendo always seem to do compact consoles, that to achieve this it would have to be a 14nm chip/APU?

I can't see 28nm/small box/more power than PS4 going together. Some have said 14nm is a no go this year for a console because of the volume needed.

14nm is a stretch unless they are way ahead of the game

not impossible just inprobable at this stage

I don't see why 14nm is a no go by the end if the year when R9 400 cards are only a month and a half away. AMD is targeting aggressive pricing and I have to imagine the console contracts let them ramp up production to get there.

 

[Chemist]

I, for one, welcome a powerful Nintendo system. Feels like it's been a very long time to have a powerful nin system. I hope the leaks are true, although that faked leak controller was awful lol.

 

[ebullientprism]

So if its more powerful than the PS4, could it brute force Wii compatibility?

 

[MilkyJoe]

If we seriously have to rebuy these remasters of Wii U games we bought over the past 1-2 years Nintendo has no fucking clue.

Do we have to?

 

[DrROBschiz]

The NX will be more powerful than PS4. But will it be more powerful than PS4.5?

Does it need to be?

I dont have many misgivings with current WiiU software

They just need the system OS, account and online to fucking work

I don't see why 14nm is a no go by the end if the year when R9 400 cards are only a month and a half away. AMD is targeting aggressive pricing and I have to imagine the console contracts let them ramp up production to get there.

Oh i wasnt aware! Good call! Maybe 14nm is more likely than I give it credit for....

 

[IntelliHeath]

I remember the day the gif got dropped in the thread. It was pretty amazing.

 

[potatohead]

Do we have to?

Yes.

You also have to buy a PS4K

 

[Principate]

Logically it would be money, since the install base of the home console would make a mainline MH game more than worth it and still have the spin-off X style version for handheld. Also, Nintendo IS the handheld market in Japan and the 3DS is showing its age. If they have a successor in the NX console/handheld, then it should be safe to assume that MH will look much better than its current incarnations.

I think it'll probably be less Campcom has interest in console ports, and more if Nintendo's original inferences about the NX were current then they'd be releasing all their games on both systems if possible or more likely all their handheld games on the console. Thus it makes sense for capcom to do the same since their not exactly losing out and it likely won't cost them much more.

 

[Schnozberry]

The problem with NX being more powerful than PS4 is it's not clear who that move would allow them to reach that the hypothetical PS4k wouldn't take from them anyway, and it's not at all clear that it would boost the popularity of their existing IP.

This is a good point, but I think the major element that the power equivalency would buy them is entry into the conversation. A lot of people rule them out based on specs before even evaluating the software.

 

[Ad0ve]

Actually, now that I think about it, depending on the power of the handheld NX, sticking MH on everything with cross play does seems like the logical future of the franchise

Except Xbox One lol, that shit aint never happening

 

[LegendofLex]

This is a good point, but I think the major element that the power equivalency would buy them is entry into the conversation. A lot of people rule them out based on specs before even evaluating the software.

Those people are already exceptionally well served by other platforms.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Yes.

You also have to buy a PS4K

B-B-But I don't like the controller...

 

[ViolentP]

Prior to the Wii era, it seemed like Nintendo's "gimmicks" were invented to enhance the existing gameplay experience (shoulder buttons, analog stick for 3D, rumble pak, etc.). With the Wii and after, however, it seemed like the controller innovation came first, and then gameplay was created to make use of it. The Wii was obviously a huge success (for awhile), but I think this approach is much less of a natural evolution of console gaming, and so these ideas didn't stick nearly as well over the long term. I think things like SCDs, cross play, and freeform displays would fit in much better with the existing gaming market, making them more palatable for core gamers and third parties alike while still evolving the overall gaming experience.

My belief is that the Wii was a runaway success due to it's accessibility. It tapped a market that no one else had a chance to touch. It unfortunately didn't turn that market into gamers so when the Wii U rolled around, they had no interest. While I applaud Nintendo on always trying new things, that secondary market may simply not be there for a number of years, and the support of the die-hards isn't going to keep them afloat forever.

Which leaves them competing directly with Microsoft and Sony. A daunting task considering they're already well established in the hardcore market.

 

[-Horizon-]

I wonder if Online will still be free... hopefully it is with how barebones feature wise it is compared to the competition. However, it could be a great selling-point if they expanded on Miiverse, delivered a great online with most of the expected features, free of charge.

Speculation: I think they will have a sub service but only for their VC games, online will still be free

I'll be disappointed if they do start charging like the other 2

 

[KingBroly]

So if its more powerful than the PS4, could it brute force Wii compatibility?

It'd have to be compatible with the Sensor Bar, which I don't see happening.

 

[georly]

I remember the day the gif got dropped in the thread. It was pretty amazing.

Yup, still my favorite gif, especially because it works twice. One for how bad we were at guessing Wii U and again for NX speculation - we'll see if it rings true this time, lol.

It'd have to be compatible with the Sensor Bar, which I don't see happening.

NX gimmick is track IR, new sensor bar and mario hat required.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

14nm is a stretch unless they are way ahead of the game

not impossible just inprobable at this stage

If it is 28nm and more powerful than PS4 then it would need to be nearer Xbox One in size than PS4. Unless Nintendo have a trick cooling system.

AMD is several generations of hardware removed from the PS4 in terms of CPU and GPU on 28nm right now. 14nm would be ideal, but not required to get better performance than PS4.

I'm sure that's true to an extent but I think today's PS4 equivalent 28nm GPU is the R370? But that would be way too power hungry for NX. 110 TDP/Board power, real world ~140W from a quick Google.

 

[Principate]

I wonder if Online will still be free... hopefully it is with how barebones feature wise it is compared to the competition. However, it could be a great selling-point if they expanded on Miiverse, delivered a great online with most of the expected features, free of charge.

Free online up to par would be in their best interests. especially if their doing ports of their Wii u games online focused Wii u games. Nintendo have a lot to prove in regards to consumers.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Sure

but it doesnt matter. They are still going to be sourcing base components from the current market selection provided by their partners

Many of which have been broken down by posters like Thraktor. EITHER WAY NX should be a competitive system unless they deliberately source the weakest options available to them

They are more like going to go with contracts that make the most sense at volume though.

I don't think anyone is questioning whether it'll be powerful. Well, some people are lol But I think that much is believable.

But that doesn't amount to much unless people outside of Nintendo fans actually want this thing.

 

[ozfunghi]

For people theorising that Nintendo may release their Wii U games in 4K on NX, keep in mind that it's not simply a matter of whether the GPU had the raw computational grunt necessary. In fact, if the OP is correct then the ALU performance (i.e. Gflops) shouldn't be an issue for 4K Wii U remasters. What would be a major bottleneck, though, is memory bandwidth. The considerable majority of memory bandwidth in a console is consumed by framebuffer accesses, so if you increase the size of your framebuffer four-fold, you'll want to have close to four times the memory bandwidth available to accommodate it.

The Wii U's eDRAM pool, which developers use to store the framebuffer, reportedly has 70GB/s of bandwidth. So, for Smash Bros, which runs at 1080p/60fps, you would have to assume that that 70GB/s is pretty much fully saturated, as the game's pushing twice as many pixels as most Wii U titles. Hence, if Nintendo wanted to release a 4K version of Smash Bros on NX, they'd want to ensure they had at least four times the framebuffer bandwidth the Wii U had, 280GB/s, plus enough bandwidth for non-framebuffer memory access (i.e. texture reads, etc.). For reference, that's more bandwidth than a GTX 980.

Now, modern AMD GPUs (from GCN 1.2 onwards) have color buffer compression, which provides for more efficient bandwidth usage than Wii U would have had. They claim a 40% overall reduction in bandwidth usage, so you'd be looking at 168GB/s plus non-buffer accesses, so probably over 200GB/s in all. That's quite a big jump over PS4 (which has about 140GB/s usable bandwidth), but just about doable with GDDR5X, if Nintendo want to spend the money on it.

Smash Bros would be the least of Nintendo's worries, though. Almost all of their other games (Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Mario 3D World, etc.) are rendered at 720p, and assuming any of them comes close to saturating Wii U's 70GB/s of eDRAM bandwidth (not impossible with deferred shading used in a number of those games), then the bandwidth required to run them at 4K starts to become a bit ridiculous. Nintendo would need 378GB/s of framebuffer bandwidth (taking into account color buffer compression and not including non-buffer memory access) to be comfortably able to run these games at 4K.

Now, from a purely theoretical perspective, that's not actually impossible for a late 2016 console to achieve. Either 4096-bit HBM or 384-bit GDDR5X would be able to achieve the necessary bandwidth, both of which would be available to Nintendo within the necessary timeframe. Nintendo have spent money on exotic memory before (1T-SRAM, eDRAM, FCRAM, etc.), so maybe they decide they want to go with HBM for NX, but in order to spend the money on HBM they'd have to spend less on other components, most notably the SoC containing the CPU & GPU. Effectively, Nintendo would have to design a console that is less capable at 1080p in order to accommodate a small number of 4K games.

Given that Nintendo's most successful recent console was a bet against higher resolutions, it would be bizarre for them to suddenly decide that their best course of action is to go gung-ho into the world of 4K. Now, it's not impossible that a small number of 2D or indie games may be able to run at 4K on NX, a PS4-level machine would certainly be able to accommodate that (in fact I'd be confident in saying that Rayman Legends probably would have run at 4K on PS4 had Sony allowed games to output at that resolution), but Wii U games in 4K are an exceedingly unlikely proposition.

We were specifically talking about Smash, which already runs in 1080p in WiiU. Whether or not that is possible.

 

[Soulscribe]

Oh lawd, their first party launch titles are all gonna be ports, aren't they

 

[DrROBschiz]

I don't think anyone is questioning whether it'll be powerful. Well, some people are lol But I think that much is believable.

But that doesn't amount to much unless people outside of Nintendo fans actually want this thing.

Price

Word of Mouth

Features

These are the big pillars in my mind

 

[BY2K]

If we seriously have to rebuy these remasters of Wii U games we bought over the past 1-2 years Nintendo has no fucking clue.

It worked pretty well with The Last of Us Remastered.

 

[ViolentP]

The NX will not be a 4K machine.

Price

Word of Mouth

Features

These are the big pillars in my mind

These should be big pillars in everyone's minds. It's the execution however that will dictate.

 

[georly]

Oh lawd, their first party launch titles are all gonna be ports, aren't they

I really doubt *ALL* of them. ports will be to pad out launch lineup/window.

The NX will not be a 4K machine.

I really doubt it will, as well. Not to mention I honestly think people care more about 4k in theory than in practice. I mean, devs can't always hit 1080 for most games, and now people want 4k?

 

[LegendofLex]

Oh lawd, their first party launch titles are all gonna be ports, aren't they

I wouldn't be surprised if a new Mario or Metroid title and a brand-new game both showed up around the time of launch.

That leaves another 10 million userbase. Not exactly what Nintendo wants either, unless they honestly want another Wii U. They have to start courting that userbase, something they should have done a long time ago.

Let me put it another way: Nintendo's lineup is never going to successfully compete with the PS4 and Xbox One libraries as they currently stand. Not with the same users that are already served by those platforms. You might as well consider that battle already lost, unless there's suddenly a new market space that appears that NX can grab that doesn't already exist on PS4 and Xbox.

 

[Principate]

Those people are already exceptionally well served by other platforms.

That leaves another 10 million userbase. Not exactly what Nintendo wants either, unless they honestly want another Wii U. They have to start courting that userbase, something they should have done a long time ago. They tried half hartedly with the wii u. Seems like their trying again.

 

[James Scott]

I'm willing to be corrected on this, but I don't think there's any internal division within Nintendo between "handheld teams" and "console teams". The team that made Mario Kart 8 was the same as the team that made MK7, the team that made Super Mario 3D World and Captain Toad was the same as the team that made 3D Land, etc.

Yeah, though there's a handheld Zelda team and some studios with no HD experience.
For those the handheld is likely the best target to develop for.

 

[pooh]

My belief is that the Wii was a runaway success due to it's accessibility. It tapped a market that no one else had a chance to touch. It unfortunately didn't turn that market into gamers so when the Wii U rolled around, they had no interest. While I applaud Nintendo on always trying new things, that secondary market may simply not be there for a number of years, and the support of the die-hards isn't going to keep them afloat forever.

Which leaves them competing directly with Microsoft and Sony. A daunting task considering they're already well established in the hardcore market.

I agree with all this, and I also wonder how they might try to bring in new customers. Maybe one of the "gimmicks" this time around will involve some connection with mobile? I do remember PC and mobile being included in the initial presentation on NX that Iwata gave.

 

[DrROBschiz]

The NX will not be a 4K machine.

4K capable is going to be an across the board thing at a component level bro

Whether it will play 4K games that arent picross?

Well thats an obvious limitation facing ALL platforms and PCs right now

 

[Dark Cloud]

Oh lawd, their first party launch titles are all gonna be ports, aren't they

How do you even come up with this conclusion? Come on man.

There are already rumored new games too.

 

[udivision]

I'm willing to be corrected on this, but I don't think there's any internal division within Nintendo between "handheld teams" and "console teams". The team that made Mario Kart 8 was the same as the team that made MK7, the team that made Super Mario 3D World and Captain Toad was the same as the team that made 3D Land, etc.

AlphaDream comes to mind. They only work on handhelds.

 

[-Horizon-]

Oh lawd, their first party launch titles are all gonna be ports, aren't they

4 possible up ports can't possibly be all the first party launch titles

I expect at least 2 new games available at release day lol
That's my baseline expectation right there

 

[outunderthestars]

If we seriously have to rebuy these remasters of Wii U games we bought over the past 1-2 years Nintendo has no fucking clue.

Sony and MS did OK with this strategy.....

 

[georly]

4K capable is going to be an across the board thing at a component level bro

Whether it will play 4K games that arent picross?

Well thats an obvious limitation facing ALL platforms and PCs right now

I'm honestly not expecting 4k games to be a thing for at least another 5 years, and i'm not expecting it to be standard for at least 10.

 

[Bolivar687]

If it is 28nm and more powerful than PS4 then it would need to be nearer Xbox One in size than PS4. Unless Nintendo have a trick cooling system.



I'm sure that's true to an extent but I think today's PS4 equivalent 28nm GPU is the R370? But that would be way too power hungry for NX. 110 TDP/Board power, real world ~140W from a quick Google.

Again, I can't imagine they're using 28nm parts in this. Polaris 11 is ready to go in laptops for the back to school season, why wouldn't they have them ready down the road for this holiday?

 

[Principate]

It worked pretty well with The Last of Us Remastered.

A significant portion of the this gens games have been just that.

 

[Anth0ny]

If we seriously have to rebuy these remasters of Wii U games we bought over the past 1-2 years Nintendo has no fucking clue.

"no one in the games industry has a clue"

 

[James Scott]

Oh lawd, their first party launch titles are all gonna be ports, aren't they

Wii, one of Nintendo's biggest launches, was mostly some throw away titles and a Zelda port+Wii Sports. I imagine there's more to it than just ports, but with Zelda it'll be better than most launches

 

[DrROBschiz]

I'm honestly not expecting 4k games to be a thing for at least another 5 years, and i'm not expecting it to be standard for at least 10.

Agreed

Just saying the spec being included in the system isnt a stretch