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These are the big pillars in my mind

What are the chances that all of those things align perfectly and convince people buy that instead of a PS4 or Xbox One? Slim to none I think.

Sure, we don't know what this thing is yet, but Wii and Wii U absolutely destroyed Nintendo's mindshare among the very same group they seem to be targeting with this powerful, third party friendly box.

 

[potatohead]

B-B-But I don't like the controller...

You will love it!

*casts voodoo magic*

 

[firelogic]

And then a mere 2 years after the NX comes out, the next Sony and MS offerings will be significantly more powerful. Not sure why Nintendo wants to do this mid-gen new hardware release thing. It only hurts them. The current install base of the PS4/XB1 means it can't touch them. Then once the new systems come out, they'll be left in the dust again. It's the WiiU all over again.

 

[ViolentP]

I agree with all this, and I also wonder how they might try to bring in new customers. Maybe one of the "gimmicks" this time around will involve some connection with mobile? I do remember PC and mobile being included in the initial presentation on NX that Iwata gave.

Personally speaking, that market doesn't want gimmicks. That's not to say that, as you say, a mobile connectivity wouldn't have it's value. As well as bringing in the new users, Nintendo should still keep their old fans happy, and those fans like the quirks the company brings.

But if they want that other market, they need a powerful machine, they need strong third-party relationships, and the execution of a good gaming library.

I really doubt it will, as well. Not to mention I honestly think people care more about 4k in theory than in practice. I mean, devs can't always hit 1080 for most games, and now people want 4k?

I would certainly be wary of an unreleased device pushing non-standard tech as a feature. Besides, at this juncture, those resources have a better place than resolution.

 

[georly]

Agreed

Just saying the spec being included in the system isnt a stretch

Yeah, not at all, but is it worth flipping the tea table if it isn't? I think some gaffers will kneejerk hate it if it doesn't, even though it honestly matters not one bit in the current market.

 

[omonimo]

The NX will be more powerful than PS4. But will it be more powerful than PS4.5?

I would wait to see the real specs of this monster machine. I'm not sure where coming all these convinctions.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

It worked pretty well with The Last of Us Remastered.

And GTA.

Twice.

 

[jmizzal]

Is there any way to make splatoon work with just one screen (a tv)?

Yes easy, I feel Splatoon on WiiU shouldnt have forced you to use the gamepad. But at that time Nintendo was trying to double down on the gamepad with Splatoon, Mario Maker and Star Fox.

 

[Ethan Olivia]

I'm going to be very unhappy if they don't refresh the branding and presentation for 2D Mario.

Whether that means sprites or a new 2.5D style that doesn't feel cheap compared to the 3D games, I dunno yet.

Absolutely agree with this. I want a new, ambitious art style with a glorious soundtrack.

 

[dragonyeuw]

If we seriously have to rebuy these remasters of Wii U games we bought over the past 1-2 years Nintendo has no fucking clue.

Why? There's some gems on the system that deserve to be brought forward to a new console( hopefully, a more commercially successful one) so that people who never owned a Wii U have the chance to play them. No-one's forcing you to rebuy games you already own on the U.

 

[LegendofLex]

Personally speaking, that market doesn't want gimmicks. That's not to say that, as you say, a mobile connectivity wouldn't have it's value. As well as bringing in the new users, Nintendo should still keep their old fans happy, and those fans like the quirks the company brings.

But if they want that other market, they need a powerful machine, they need strong third-party relationships, and the execution of a good gaming library.

They need a gaming library that is better than the ones on PS4 and Xbox One.

Specifically, if the third-party multiplats are going to matter, they need the portions of their library that align with those multiplats to be better than the ones on PS4 and Xbox One.

This isn't going to happen. By the time NX launches, the PS4 and Xbox One libraries for multiplats will already be better than the NX library could even possibly be within 3 years of launch. That's because they'll have already had a three-year head start and already built followings/communities for those genres/games that NX will have to cannibalize.

If there's anything we've learned from Nintendo, it's that they're very very bad at cannibalizing customers from other platforms, except in the genres where they're still king.

 

[ViolentP]

4K capable is going to be an across the board thing at a component level bro

Whether it will play 4K games that arent picross?

Well thats an obvious limitation facing ALL platforms and PCs right now

I'm quite aware. Not at all what we are talking about, however.

 

[Schnozberry]

Those people are already exceptionally well served by other platforms.

That's may be true, but eliminating common barriers to purchase isn't a bad thing. I have a feeling that the rumored hardware grunt is more about winning over developers and publishers than the mass market directly. In the end, those interests are lined up.

I'm sure that's true to an extent but I think today's PS4 equivalent 28nm GPU is the R370? But that would be way too power hungry for NX. 110 TDP/Board power, real world ~140W from a quick Google.

I have no idea what TDP Nintendo is shooting for. I think the 370 is slightly more powerful than the PS4. I'm not sure what the power draw would be on a console APU because all the pc specific hardware on die is removed and Nintendo will likely be customizing it further based on their own requirements.

 

[georly]

For those saying the PS4.5 will trump the NX, in theory, I'll propose a question:

Would you rather:
Sell/junk/give away your PS4 and get a ps4.5 that plays all the same games, some of them slightly better
OR
Get an all new system with all new games AND keep your PS4 and still be able to play 99% of PS4 games?

I know some will pick option 1, but I think a lot more would pick option 2. I think an even bigger chunk will pick option 3, though - 'keep my ps4, don't get either ps4k or the NX'

 

[DrROBschiz]

For those saying the PS4.5 will trump the NX, in theory, I'll propose a question:

Would you rather:
Sell/junk/give away your PS4 and get a ps4.5 that plays all the same games, some of them slightly better
OR
Get an all new system with all new games AND keep your PS4 and still be able to play 99% of PS4 games?

I know some will pick option 1, but I think a lot more would pick option 2. I think an even bigger chunk will pick option 3, though - 'keep my ps4, don't get either ps4k or the NX'

All options suck

My wallet weeps

Im going to stick with what has worked for me before and just buy what i need to play the games I want to play in the way I want to play them lol

 

[James Scott]

For those saying the PS4.5 will trump the NX, in theory, I'll propose a question:

Would you rather:
Sell/junk/give away your PS4 and get a ps4.5 that plays all the same games, some of them slightly better
OR
Get an all new system with all new games AND keep your PS4 and still be able to play 99% of PS4 games?

I know some will pick option 1, but I think a lot more would pick option 2. I think an even bigger chunk will pick option 3, though - 'keep my ps4, don't get either ps4k or the NX'

Yeah, access to a new library and (presumably) slightly better ports should trump ps4 but slightly better

 

[Pineapple]

The lack of details regarding the handheld is interesting. A six year lifespan for a handheld is a long time.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Hoping for uhd bluray movie support so I don't have to buy a ps4k if that actually happens, or a $400 standalone bluray player.

I don't understand how nintendo doesn't think not supporting the main physical movie media makes any kind of sense. It was clearly a major part of the problem for gamecube and wii u. Wii was different because it was so cheap vs 360 and especially ps3 from the get go. And it had the motion control craze going for it.

It is a major part of the value proposition for the average consumer if other factors are relatively close (graphical power, games, price, etc) $400 ps4k that plays 4k blurays vs 299-350, NX that doesn't, most people are going to take the ps4k.

 

[LegendofLex]

For those saying the PS4.5 will trump the NX, in theory, I'll propose a question:

Would you rather:
Sell/junk/give away your PS4 and get a ps4.5 that plays all the same games, some of them slightly better
OR
Get an all new system with all new games AND keep your PS4 and still be able to play 99% of PS4 games?

I know some will pick option 1, but I think a lot more would pick option 2. I think an even bigger chunk will pick option 3, though - 'keep my ps4, don't get either ps4k or the NX'

There are two scenarios for existing PS4 owners that will compete with NX:

1) They just keep their PS4 and continue gaming on their PS4 and don't need another platform. This costs them $0 in new hardware.

2) They trade in their old PS4 and buy a PS4k. Let's assume the PS4k is $400, and the trade-up value of a PS4 is $200. This would cost them $200 in new hardware.

Do you really think NX is going to be especially competitive against either of those scenarios, when Wii U wasn't despite having 1) a good library of multiplats at launch (most of which came from publishers that pledged future support if people bought the ports) alongside a first-party lineup, 2) no competing new hardware whatsoever, 3) a terrible time against PS4 and Xbox One once they launched despite both platforms being more expensive than Wii U?

The third-party lineup will need to be astronomically better on NX, and the perceived value of Nintendo's own software will likewise need to be astronomically better than it was on Wii U, if Nintendo's going to suddenly go from failing to sell at $100+ less than the competition to selling better than the competition at a similar price point (for non-Gen 8 owners) or making them pay even more for hardware this gen than they would with any other option.

I don't think there's a magic bullet where Nintendo gets that formula exactly right to capture some unspecified number of potential PS4 owners. I think they have a better shot at capturing a completely untapped market.

 

[-Horizon-]

For those saying the PS4.5 will trump the NX, in theory, I'll propose a question:

Would you rather:
Sell/junk/give away your PS4 and get a ps4.5 that plays all the same games, some of them slightly better
OR
Get an all new system with all new games AND keep your PS4 and still be able to play 99% of PS4 games?

I know some will pick option 1, but I think a lot more would pick option 2. I think an even bigger chunk will pick option 3, though - 'keep my ps4, don't get either ps4k or the NX'

Sell them all and buy a PC.

Spoiler

jk, actually go all in on mobile

 

[Pastry]

For those saying the PS4.5 will trump the NX, in theory, I'll propose a question:

Would you rather:
Sell/junk/give away your PS4 and get a ps4.5 that plays all the same games, some of them slightly better
OR
Get an all new system with all new games AND keep your PS4 and still be able to play 99% of PS4 games?

I know some will pick option 1, but I think a lot more would pick option 2. I think an even bigger chunk will pick option 3, though - 'keep my ps4, don't get either ps4k or the NX'

If I had to choose I would go with 1 but I also have PSVR preordered so I would like the extra power for that. But I would be keeping my current PS4 for my other TV.

 

[dragonyeuw]

And then a mere 2 years after the NX comes out, the next Sony and MS offerings will be significantly more powerful. Not sure why Nintendo wants to do this mid-gen new hardware release thing. It only hurts them. The current install base of the PS4/XB1 means it can't touch them. Then once the new systems come out, they'll be left in the dust again. It's the WiiU all over again.

I'm not sure they can avoid that at this point, but what's the alternative? The Wii U market is basically tapped out( what little there is). At the very least, making the systems technically superior to current ps4/xb1 models means they can benefit from some mid-gen ports. Frankly, with all these rumors of mid-gen refreshes( Ps4k) it seems like the traditional console business model is shifting anyways.

 

[Raide]

The lack of details regarding the handheld is interesting. A six year lifespan for a handheld is a long time.

It would be but Nintendo do love their iteration of handhelds, so expect the NX-XL 1 year down the line if all goes well.

 

[Kissenkopf]

And then a mere 2 years after the NX comes out, the next Sony and MS offerings will be significantly more powerful. Not sure why Nintendo wants to do this mid-gen new hardware release thing. It only hurts them. The current install base of the PS4/XB1 means it can't touch them. Then once the new systems come out, they'll be left in the dust again. It's the WiiU all over again.

So you really think this gen will be over after 4 years? The PS5 is probably still 4 years or even more away (if the console is extremly sucessful). Games take so much development time these days that it is impossible to switch to new systems every 4 years because you wouldn't take the customers with you. This is, of course, the case if the console business will stay the way it is today. If we get upgrade for consoles then it might look different.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Hey being noticeably more powerful than PS4 (which is similarly more powerful than XBO I believe) is definitely enough for me, especially if current gen games can be brought over really easily which hopefully means decent support by default.

I mean Wii U had trouble getting PS360 ports (surely due to the horrible CPU). So this would be the closest Nintendo's been to the competition's systems in a long while.

Hell would it not be fair to consider NX maybe being the DC vs PS4K and XB1.5 as being GC and XB (in no order) in terms of power gap? Pretty big gap, but the same ball park?

NX being PS2 might be too close maybe.

 

[ViolentP]

They need a gaming library that is better than the ones on PS4 and Xbox One.

Specifically, if the third-party multiplats are going to matter, they need the portions of their library that align with those multiplats to be better than the ones on PS4 and Xbox One.

This isn't going to happen. By the time NX launches, the PS4 and Xbox One libraries for multiplats will already be better than the NX library could even possibly be within 3 years of launch. That's because they'll have already had a three-year head start and already built followings/communities for those genres/games that NX will have to cannibalize.

If there's anything we've learned from Nintendo, it's that they're very very bad at cannibalizing customers from other platforms, except in the genres where they're still king.

They could go balls to the wall and take the lead on next-gen now. Get some dev-kits out, rebuild those third party relationships, make their next console the lead platform for next-gen development.

That's some hard and risky work, however. I don't know if Nintendo has the ability to pull it off without breaking some of their old systems like cost-effective pricing.

 

[georly]

Im going to stick with what has worked for me before and just buy what i need to play the games I want to play in the way I want to play them lol

I think that's what most people *actually* do. They see the console with the greatest perceived value (biggest bang for your buck/most games you want to play) and they go with that. A lot of people perceived the PS4 as a good value because sony showed a promising future with a powerful lineup.

Nintendo needs to give customers a perceived value. Hopefully it's value is greater than "that one game you own now is 1080p instead of 720p."

There are two scenarios for existing PS4 owners that will compete with NX:

1) They just keep their PS4 and continue gaming on their PS4 and don't need another platform. This costs them $0 in new hardware.

2) They trade in their old PS4 and buy a PS4k. Let's assume the PS4k is $400, and the trade-up value of a PS4 is $200. This would cost them $200 in new hardware.

Do you really think NX is going to be especially competitive against either of those scenarios, when Wii U wasn't despite having 1) a good library of multiplats at launch alongside a first-party lineup, 2) no competing new hardware whatsoever, 3) a terrible time against PS4 and Xbox One once they launched despite both platforms being more expensive than Wii U?

It's up to nintendo in how they compete with it. I think the biggest hurdle they currently have is the stigma against nintendo in general as always being the weaker or 'kiddie/family' choice. My scenario is strictly for ps4 owners who want to purchase something new and are given a choice. The other thing I didn't list was XB1, which I probably should have. If you're looking in terms of 'games I want to play' NX will have a ton of exclusives that you're now open to that you won't be if you strictly upgrade to a ps4k. Will those exclusives matter to a ps4 owner? Who knows, but probably not. If I had to guess, some PS4 owners won't even LOOK at NX exclusives due to the negative stigma against nintendo.

That said, for some the option may be as simple as "god of war 4 in higher resolution" vs "Brand new open world zelda game"

 

[Servbot24]

If we seriously have to rebuy these remasters of Wii U games we bought over the past 1-2 years Nintendo has no fucking clue.

You don't have to do anything. If you feel obligated to purchase products you probably need need to take a step back.

 

[Sadist]

If we seriously have to rebuy these remasters of Wii U games we bought over the past 1-2 years Nintendo has no fucking clue.

Have to rebuy?

I don't understand, is Nintendo theatening you?

 

[Dark Cloud]

If anything the PS4K helps Nintendo out because that probably means the PS5 won't even release for another 3-4 years. Generations are going to be blurred from now on.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I think that's what most people *actually* do. They see the console with the greatest perceived value (biggest bang for your buck/most games you want to play) and they go with that. A lot of people perceived the PS4 as a good value because sony showed a promising future with a powerful lineup.

Nintendo needs to give customers a perceived value. Hopefully it's value is greater than "that one game you own now is 1080p instead of 720p."

At the same time it also drove me to blow a bunch of money on new 3DS for MH4U. Worth it i guess but its been my least favorite aystem by far

 

[TheKastorian]

For those saying the PS4.5 will trump the NX, in theory, I'll propose a question:

Would you rather:
Sell/junk/give away your PS4 and get a ps4.5 that plays all the same games, some of them slightly better
OR
Get an all new system with all new games AND keep your PS4 and still be able to play 99% of PS4 games?

I know some will pick option 1, but I think a lot more would pick option 2. I think an even bigger chunk will pick option 3, though - 'keep my ps4, don't get either ps4k or the NX'

If I can play Bloodborne at 60 fps on PS4.5, then that is an easy dilemma to solve.

 

[Hero of Legend]

If anything the PS4K helps Nintendo out because that probably means the PS5 won't even release for another 3-4 years. Generations are going to be blurred from now on.

Agreed. I think Sony and MS REALLY want to stretch out the gen to at least 6+ years.

 

[BGBW]

Why would they be in shambles?

They lack the stability.

 

[Servbot24]

For those saying the PS4.5 will trump the NX, in theory, I'll propose a question:

Would you rather:
Sell/junk/give away your PS4 and get a ps4.5 that plays all the same games, some of them slightly better
OR
Get an all new system with all new games AND keep your PS4 and still be able to play 99% of PS4 games?

I know some will pick option 1, but I think a lot more would pick option 2. I think an even bigger chunk will pick option 3, though - 'keep my ps4, don't get either ps4k or the NX'

If you only have time in the day for one console, getting another doesn't really help you, but enhancing the games you so play might.

 

[studyguy]

Nice system is fine and all, just needs support from literally anything other than first party.

 

[Raide]

Hey being noticeably more powerful than PS4 (which is similarly more powerful than XBO I believe) is definitely enough for me, especially if current gen games can be brought over really easily which hopefully means decent support by default.

I mean Wii U had trouble getting PS360 ports (surely due to the horrible CPU). So this would be the closest Nintendo's been to the competition's systems in a long while.

Hell would it not be fair to consider NX maybe being the DC vs PS4K and XB1.5 as being GC and XB (in no order) in terms of power gap? Pretty big gap, but the same ball park?

NX being PS2 might be too close maybe.

Noticeably more powerful might be a stretch. It would have to be on par with the PS4 and it would still be a really capable system. AT this point we really have no idea how much better/worse the system could be than a PS4 but a few tweaks to the PS4 ability would still be great and keep the cost of the system moderate.

 

[atbigelow]

While the hardware of NX is what folks are focusing on, I'm honestly more intrigued by the system-level software.

I want to know how Nintendo will facilitate devs of all sizes across multiple devices. Is the SDK designed to easily feature detect what is available on the device? How did they solve working across multiple resolutions?

Nintendo has said they want a common platform. That doesn't necessarily mean shared library (although I hope it does in some way). MS has gotten a lot of shit lately with UWP's implementation flaws. Will Nintendo have the same pitfalls?

 

[SaucyJack]

For those saying the PS4.5 will trump the NX, in theory, I'll propose a question:

Would you rather:
Sell/junk/give away your PS4 and get a ps4.5 that plays all the same games, some of them slightly better
OR
Get an all new system with all new games AND keep your PS4 and still be able to play 99% of PS4 games?

I know some will pick option 1, but I think a lot more would pick option 2. I think an even bigger chunk will pick option 3, though - 'keep my ps4, don't get either ps4k or the NX'

Option 3 for me probably.

 

[BGBW]

What I want to know is if they'll bring back animated icons for save data. THIS IS IMPORTANT!

 

[benedictm]

And then a mere 2 years after the NX comes out, the next Sony and MS offerings will be significantly more powerful. Not sure why Nintendo wants to do this mid-gen new hardware release thing. It only hurts them. The current install base of the PS4/XB1 means it can't touch them. Then once the new systems come out, they'll be left in the dust again. It's the WiiU all over again.

What do they do then? sit there for 2 years with, basically, no home console and a hugely ageing handheld? Sit there twiddling their thumbs and wait for next gen? which might not come for another 4 years

 

[georly]

And then a mere 2 years after the NX comes out, the next Sony and MS offerings will be significantly more powerful. Not sure why Nintendo wants to do this mid-gen new hardware release thing. It only hurts them. The current install base of the PS4/XB1 means it can't touch them. Then once the new systems come out, they'll be left in the dust again. It's the WiiU all over again.

Who's to say nintendo won't also offer incremental upgrades? Especially if their NX OS is as versatile as Iwata made it sound.

 

[ZOONAMI]

For those saying the PS4.5 will trump the NX, in theory, I'll propose a question:

Would you rather:
Sell/junk/give away your PS4 and get a ps4.5 that plays all the same games, some of them slightly better
OR
Get an all new system with all new games AND keep your PS4 and still be able to play 99% of PS4 games?

I know some will pick option 1, but I think a lot more would pick option 2. I think an even bigger chunk will pick option 3, though - 'keep my ps4, don't get either ps4k or the NX'

Depends on uhd bluray movie support for me. If NX has it I'll get that at launch, if not maybe later on down the line after a price drop. If ps4k actually releases and has uhd bluray and NXbox doesn't, I'll swap the ps4 in heartbeat over buying a standalone 4k bluray player, and hold off on NX.

 

[Instro]

And then a mere 2 years after the NX comes out, the next Sony and MS offerings will be significantly more powerful. Not sure why Nintendo wants to do this mid-gen new hardware release thing. It only hurts them. The current install base of the PS4/XB1 means it can't touch them. Then once the new systems come out, they'll be left in the dust again. It's the WiiU all over again.

You actually believe a PS5 or Xbox whatever will be launched in 2018?

 

[Thraktor]

Yeah, though there's a handheld Zelda team and some studios with no HD experience.
For those the handheld is likely the best target to develop for.

AlphaDream comes to mind. They only work on handhelds.

I think this is more a matter of scale than anything else. Particularly on NX, there shouldn't be a meaningful difference between developing for a handheld than a console except for the fact that the console will have more detailed assets and a few extra graphical effects enabled. It's not like the whole "HD development" aspect of working on the Wii U, which was as much a matter of moving from a fixed function to fully programmable graphics architecture as it was asset complexity.

In any case, if Nintendo is truly going to move to near-100% cross-device development, it's not a case of "developing it for the handheld and porting up to the console". As is the current situation with pretty much any third party, whether they're working on UE4, Unity or an internal engine like Frostbite, they don't develop for one device and then port, they develop for all devices at the same time and then have a small team responsible for optimising for each platform. Most employees at third party studios could do their job perfectly well without having a damn clue what platforms their game is due to run on, so long as they're given sensible instructions on expected asset complexity, etc. Developing a game that runs across both a Nintendo home console and a Nintendo handheld wouldn't be enormously different. You create assets that are either as detailed as your highest-end target can handle or as detailed as you can afford and then you scale down to the lower targets. You write game logic that can properly run on each device, and then you compile everything together and optimise and go through QA for each one.

 

[LegendofLex]

If I had to guess, some PS4 owners won't even LOOK at NX exclusives due to the negative stigma against nintendo.

That said, for some the option may be as simple as "god of war 4 in higher resolution" vs "Brand new open world zelda game"

To use Zelda as an example of how Nintendo can break this stigma: if Nintendo manages to make Zelda the best open-world game out there (this doesn't have to be universally agreed-upon, but just agreed-upon by the majority of consumers), do you think that'd attract people who might otherwise have bought a different open-world game on a different platform? Do you think that the might create a market for more open-world games on a Nintendo platform? (Kind of like how Zelda opened the door for Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy and other RPGs on NES.)

I think this is the vector that Nintendo really needs to nail to be competitive with Sony and Microsoft.

 

[Calamari41]

Who's to say nintendo won't also offer incremental upgrades? Especially if their NX OS is as versatile as Iwata made it sound.

If they are able to execute on what Iwata talked about a few years ago, then we could be in a situation where new consoles are backward and forward compatible, just displaying games at different graphical fidelities like a PC. I haven't been following the PS4K rumors, but I assume that is going to follow the same basic idea?

 

[Raide]

What do they do then? sit there for 2 years with, basically, no home console and a hugely ageing handheld? Sit there twiddling their thumbs and wait for next gen? which might not come for another 4 years

With a market this full of competitors, they cannot really sit around. They have to jump in at some point.

Like Sony should be doing for the potential PS4 to PS4k owners, Nintendo should have some upgrade/part exchange programme in place for Wii-U to NX users. Its Nintendo's fault they are dropping the system early, so they should incentivise users to jump in day 1.

 

[Nbz]

If we seriously have to rebuy these remasters of Wii U games we bought over the past 1-2 years Nintendo has no fucking clue.

Right, because those remasters TOTALLY appeal to you and only you.

No man, think about it. There are TONS of people who never owned Wii U, and that instant spike of software, which is new to them is a strong proposition.

You still own a Wii U, you don't have to buy the software again, no one is forcing you

 

[Mory Dunz]

Have to rebuy?

I don't understand, is Nintendo theatening you?

Anyone else feel forced to by a NX?