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[buenoblue]

Yeah im not holding out for to much of a performance increase. They can't go to crazy or it will be to expensive. I feel 699. I'll probably stick with old ps5 and put that money into a PC gpu upgrade. If you already have a Ryzen CPU PC like me (5600x) you could possibly get a 5070ti for not much more and it would trounce ps5 pro.

 

[Zathalus]

Relax, PS6 with 4090 RT is just on the horizon!

2028 is five years away and the 4090 will be old hat by then.

 

[mckmas8808]

PS5 Pro might be the most consequential video game system released since the PlayStation 2, if Sony gets things right with it.

Difficult balance between performance and price.

People want double the power of the PS5 but only for an additional 100 dollars from the current base price.

That's a very tall order. I think the PS4 Pro had a pretty lukewarm reaction, though it had more than double the power of the original PS4 at the same price as the launch version.

It'll be interesting to see what price the PS5 Pro launches at and what impact that has on the PS5 SE and PS5 DE. By the end of next year, we may see a PS5 Digital as cheap as $350.

I think there are a couple more probable scenarios

Scenario A - High end, no price cut, and a larger introductory price for the PS5 PRO

PS5 PRO	600
PS5	500
PS5 Digital Edition	450

Scenario B - Following the trend of PS4

PS5 PRO	500
PS5	400
PS5 Digital Edition	350

Why I think this is consequential is because Nintendo may very well have to compete with PS5 Digital to some extent on price, especially if there is a goal to garner more of the market share that comes with 3rd party titles. The Nintendo Switch (non-OLED version) currently costs $300 dollars. Will the Switch 2 come out for $300 dollars and if it does what kind of performance can they deliver for a hybrid console at that price? They may need to take considerably small margins on the Switch 2, if not even sell it at a loss. The cheapest Steam Deck is 350 and it's not very powerful.

If the Switch 2 clocks in under the power of a PS4 Pro, it's going to struggle to compete with the PS5, particularly the digital in straight-up competition. That's again assuming that the PS5 Digital ends up discounted next year.

Microsoft will also have a big decision on their hands. If the PS5 Pro enters for 500 and the base model drops to 400, they can't continue selling the XSX for 500. The XSX is already being priced at 350-400 at various retailers. It's currently 400 on Amazon right now. That creates another question for Microsoft, which is what to do with the Series S.

The Carbon Black XSS is currently 350 and you can get the base model for 250 and it's struggling to sell at that price point (in fact you can get the XSS Starter pack for 240 and that comes with 3 months of GamePass). You almost have to discontinue selling the base model and then sell the Carbon Black for 250-300 and just hope for the best.

Given that the PS5 Pro rumored leaks seem a bit underwhelming, it would suggest that Sony's strategy is probably to do Scenario B, which would also explain the price increase for the PS5 Digital this year, because otherwise, people would expect the PS5 Digital to drop to 300 dollars, everything being equal.

Going a step further if we look at PS5 Digital at 300 and price drop of the PSVR2, currently 550, I think we could see this drop to 450 in Q1 bundled with RE4. That brings it lower than the MetaQuest 3.

I then think you are potentially looking at prices for PS5 Pro at 500 and PSVR2 eventually at 350, which could be very compelling for people interested in VR.

The PS4 Pro had a GREAT reaction. Didn't it sell 10% of PS4's entire total? Meaning it probably sold around 12 million units. That's a GREAT reaction! But I think you are right about scenario B.

 

[yamaci17]

it is very risky to upgrade the CPU immensely. let's say if they go all in and put a zen 3 cpu there; devs will now barely optimize the CPU bound code targeting 30 fps for that zen 3 CPU. that will cause immensely problematic 20-28 fps experience on base PS5.

only reason they're insistent on with the same dogshit zen 2 cpu is because otherwise ps5 would get wrecked. the same reason why ps4 pro only had a mild frequency bump in terms of CPU.

although on paper you don't see it much, zen 2 actually is a horrible architecture for gaming performance. in some specific cpu bound cases that usually are problematic and only seen as "niche" by many hardware folks, the zen 3 can roflstomp zen 2 by purely being a decent and actual gaming oriented architecture. in flight simulator, zen 3 randomly brutalizes zen 2 by %50-70. there are also now other cases where the margin easily gets over %70-100. and also other cases where zen 2 cores cannot simply hold the frametimes stable whereas zen 3 can with badly written code

zen 2 with its weird quirks, inner ccx delays, latencies and such makes it a horrible CPU that devs will once again use as an excuse to keep targeting a barely 30 fps target on newgen games going forward.

so I fully understand why sony and microsoft would be against the idea of a zen 3 upgrade. it would massively destroy any kind of framerate stability base consoles can offer. once you give devs zen 3 freedom of actual decent CPU, the base experience would go whack.

at least with ps4 pro's case, if a game was not properly optimized on the CPU side, both consoles got shafted. a mere 1.6 ghz to 2.2 ghz bump never fixed the intricate problems of lacking IPC of jaguar cores. so your game either had to run damn well on both pro and base machine or barely holding 30 fps on ps4 pro and 25-27 fps on ps4 in which case you can argue both versions are unplayable

so yeah I'm happy that they will keep on with zen 2. you have to keep devs in check and force them to optimize for that cpu target specifically. otherwise they'll just roflstomp the base console experience.

well, if they just waited 2021 september and release base consoles with zen 3; that would be best for everyone.

but they already pushed millions of consoles with pathetic 8 mb l3 cache and atrocious IPC. no reason to give devs power to stomp that userbase.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I think we need to be careful about comparing architectures across different platforms i.e PS6 will have 4090 levels of RT

We don't know AMD's roadmap, or how RT technology will evolve over the next 3-4 years - there's already new and exciting technologies beyond RT, like AI and Neural up sampling (especially for textures).

They won't design a PS6 saying "let's hit 4090 levels of RT", instead they'll say "what kind of hardware performance and feature set do we need so that developers can comfortably target path tracing at XX FPS across all their projects".

Maybe they won't even target path tracing but instead full multi-bounce RTGI with shadows, occlusions and reflections. Hardly a difference anyway.

 

[Loxus]

Yeah im not holding out for to much of a performance increase. They can't go to crazy or it will be to expensive. I feel 699. I'll probably stick with old ps5 and put that money into a PC gpu upgrade. If you already have a Ryzen CPU PC like me (5600x) you could possibly get a 5070ti for not much more and it would trounce ps5 pro.

At one point, Kepler_L2 said the price of a Zen5/RDNA4 PS5 Pro would be comparable to launch PS5/XBSX.


So who knows what the price point would be.

 

[FalconPunch]

There are several things that make me doubt the authenticity of these leaks. The first is that it's coming from resetera. The second is that some of the details listed here are suspect. We're way too far out to have the frequency related information out there. If I recall prior to the ps5's release, the rumours regarding frequency were wrong. Finally I doubt both the frequency information, the number of active CU's as it directly contradicts Tom and the number of rops listed. 96 rops is completely and entirely unnecessary for the listed specs.

 

[Tomofdahook17]

This definitely what naughty Dog is waiting for to release their next game.

 

[Boss Mog]

Jim Ryan will be gone by then, so no need to keep up with his stupid "Never Talk" nonsense. Reveal it during E3 in June like you should.

The reason they reveal it late is to not hurt standard PS5 sales.

 

[FalconPunch]

The reason they reveal it late is to not hurt standard PS5 sales.

Last time the pro was released 2 months prior to release. if the ps5 pro is revealed in september, it's coming out in November.

 

[Physiognomonics]

This is disappointing if true.

CPU is a complete wash. BC this, BC that, yet it’s x86 architecture so should be BC compatible inherently for the most part. They could implement BC mode if that’s absolutely needed. Basically path of least resistance with least cost.

GPU is definitely disappointing. Yes, upscaling is a good thing, but developers have to take advantage of it. And that’s never guaranteed.

This also means no particular improvement in older games, maybe some more stable frames in a few that are dynamic.

Overall might as well keep my PS5 OG. This is less of a Pro on paper vs PS4 Pro. But we shall see.

Don't worry about the specs (and most of those specs are bullshit). You'll want to buy it when you'll see the games benefiting from it. But unfortunately it will be too late for you as you wouldn't pre-order the thing and stocks won't be able to sustain demand for some long time.

 

[Insane Metal]

Nice! Maybe they can get decent RT @ 1440p60 at least.

 

[dead monkey uk]

hopefully the PS5 Pro still has a disk drive, not ready to move into our adorable all digital future.

 

[shamoomoo]

I'm

But you will never see a 10% downclock in terms of frequency during graphically demanding portions of a game, which is what you stated.

I'm referring to the Pro clock speed being with 10% of the base PlayStation because there's supposedly more of everything so there's no need for dynamic frequencies.

 

[SlimySnake]

This isnt good news. Only 4 CUs disabled means they are using 2 Shader arrays just like the XSX and we all know it is bottlenecked by having too many fucking CUs jam packed into 2 shader arrays. They needed 3 which means disabling 6 CUs.

I will buy this thing day one, but this seems more and more like a PS5.25 instead of PS5.5. Lets hope there are substantial RT improvements but even those will only help in RT games or maybe they have IPC gains that will push it to 2x more performance.

i do like the CPU clockspeed upgrades. Clockspeeds matter more than other stuff because most games are single threaded still.

 

[Ronin_7]

By 50%? Do u think this make any diff @4k paired with a zen2.

50% is for Raster, this Console is about Ray Tracing and deep learning AA techniques.

This is basically Sony Nvidia version of the PlayStation 5.

 

[Moridianae]

I mean..

I'm excited for it. I went out and got the GoW PS4 Pro when that game released and I was pretty happy with the extra oomph it provided in the time I used it.

Yeah, I'd like for the CPU to be a little stronger(Zen 3) or higher clocks, and maybe it will be so. Have to wait for official specs.

I have faith it'll be a pretty nice boost in the end. There's a pretty big market for a Pro console.

And let's not forget that the PS5 was a little maligned here by people who looked solely at one number and said "...but XSX is 12TF!"

And time has marched on, yet I encounter seemingly one Foundry video after another that shows there's more to what makes up the PS5 than just raw TF count.

 

[Jigsaah]

Wonder how much this will cost. I'm guessing $600?

 

[Ronin_7]

This isnt good news. Only 4 CUs disabled means they are using 2 Shader arrays just like the XSX and we all know it is bottlenecked by having too many fucking CUs jam packed into 2 shader arrays. They needed 3 which means disabling 6 CUs.

I will buy this thing day one, but this seems more and more like a PS5.25 instead of PS5.5. Lets hope there are substantial RT improvements but even those will only help in RT games or maybe they have IPC gains that will push it to 2x more performance.

i do like the CPU clockspeed upgrades. Clockspeeds matter more than other stuff because most games are single threaded still.

Reading before posting would've helped you here:

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Can't wait to see what kind of temporal upscaler Sony comes up with and how superior it will be to FSR

It's not hard to be superior to FSR. AMD is last compared to DLSS and XeSS. XeSS is impressively good and will continue to improve. AMD really needs to make a version of FSR exclusive to their hardware as I believe they will get better results down the line. XeSS will end up being exclusive to Intel. DLSS exclusive to nvidia. FSR3 has apparently made some nice strides in Avatar, which is WONDERFUL news.

 

[SlimySnake]

Reading before posting would've helped you here:

Didnt see this in the OP but cool.

 

[DJ12]

14tf? No way that is real.

Just for improved ray tracing performance?

I don't believe it.

We have seen what 12 vs 10 delivers.

14 or even 15 vs 12 would not be a big enough difference in raw compute to offer anything but a slightly higher 15 to 20 resolution increase.

I get that it could handle better raytracing qt those resolutions which is cool but I call bullshit on these leaks.

It needs/must be close to 20tf imo.

If this gen has taught us nothing else its made it abundantly clear teraflops don't mean shit.

But as it says there is bespoke hardware for raytracing, that won't detract from any theoretical floppage like it does now so overall fidelity will improve with raytracing added to everything. Also 14-15 tfs is a 50% improvement over ps5, on different tech so will in real terms perform significantly better if this is true.

They won't suddenly stop using the io chip, geometry engine and all the other stuff that makes a mockery of flops, so it's looking good.

You are currently in the 12 vs 10 cerny talk malaise.

On paper it doesn't look fantastic, but proof will be in the pudding like it was with ps5. Cerny knows what he's doing.

 

[Loxus]

Looking back at some of Kepler old tweets, I so wish this was the case instead of what we're getting based on the leaks.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Yeah but only If It delivers 60fps. If not I'll wait for the PS6 or Upgrade my gaming PC.

Who are we kidding. I know I'm a son of a bitch and will double dip like GTA Quintuple.

 

[shamoomoo]

This isnt good news. Only 4 CUs disabled means they are using 2 Shader arrays just like the XSX and we all know it is bottlenecked by having too many fucking CUs jam packed into 2 shader arrays. They needed 3 which means disabling 6 CUs.

I will buy this thing day one, but this seems more and more like a PS5.25 instead of PS5.5. Lets hope there are substantial RT improvements but even those will only help in RT games or maybe they have IPC gains that will push it to 2x more performance.

i do like the CPU clockspeed upgrades. Clockspeeds matter more than other stuff because most games are single threaded still.

Yeah,the Pro may have the same bottleneck as the Series X if these specs are true but there's one even pool of memory and there could be more cache to ease the design flaw.

 

[Dunker99]

As someone who has zero interest in PC gaming, I just want a console that offers a better chance of decent 60fps+ modes. So hopefully this will be that. 60fps is my priority.

 

[splattered]

I hope both Sony and MS bring out Pro models by end of 2024... i dont wanna wait till 2026+ for new machines. Yeah, the ones we already have are ok now but i just want new shiny.

 

[Sanepar]

The question is, ms will have a pro series x or a new gen in 2026?

 

[Mownoc]

4.4ghz for the CPU is higher than I expected, though the 60% boost in rasterisation is lower. Though the XDNA2 upscaling stuff could help it punch above it's weight and mean that the 60% is more than enough of an improvement over the standard ps5.

 

[Darsxx82]

I hope both Sony and MS bring out Pro models by end of 2024... i dont wanna wait till 2026+ for new machines. Yeah, the ones we already have are ok now but i just want new shiny.

Right now, based on the indications, if there is a possibility of seeing an Xbox Series PRO, it will not be in 2024 but in 2025. Which in fact is precisely what happened with XBO X, which was launched a year after PS4Pro but was announced at the same time as the launch of the latter and the release of XBO S (which was also launched a year after PS4 slim).

That is why when PS5Pro is launched, if MS does not announce anything or no leaks appear (condoned by MS or third parties) about an XSeries PRO... then I Will bet it will be clear that no response by MS is planned (which for me would be a huge mistake ).

 

[Audiophile]

Kinda what I'm hoping for:

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

How can not final devkits leak the final retail hardware??

The final retail hardware is not even produced. Only the final devkits contain retail hardware.

 

[shamoomoo]

4.4ghz for the CPU is higher than I expected, though the 60% boost in rasterisation is lower. Though the XDNA2 upscaling stuff could help it punch above it's weight and mean that the 60% is more than enough of an improvement over the standard ps5.

That's the frequency of the Ryzen 4750g,I think that's the desktop speed of mobile Ryzen.

 

[saintjules]

Copy and paste from ERA I see.

 

[Diseased Yak]

Yep day 1 for me. As much as I enjoy my 7900xt PC, i’m still a console guy at heart. I want to see what they do with the upgraded horsepower.

Same here. I just spent $4000 on building a new PC, but I'm still a console lover and always will be.

 

[diffusionx]

Right now, based on the indications, if there is a possibility of seeing an Xbox Series PRO, it will not be in 2024 but in 2025. Which in fact is precisely what happened with XBO X, which was launched a year after PS4Pro but was announced at the same time as the launch of the latter and the release of XBO S (which was also launched a year after PS4 slim).

That is why when PS5Pro is launched, if MS does not announce anything or no leaks appear (condoned by MS or third parties) about an XSeries PRO... then I Will bet it will be clear that no response by MS is planned (which for me would be a huge mistake ).

Xbox One X also had significant architectural differences from the regular machine, which surely necessitated additional time and work. That shouldn't be the case this time around and if MS wants to try to stay relevant in console I don't think they could leave PS5 Pro alone for a full year.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

would be a good character to add to sony's all star brawl or whatever its called if the game didnt totally suck

 

[Pagusas]

How can not final devkits leak the final retail hardware??

The final retail hardware is not even produced. Only the final devkits contain retail hardware.

Dev kits (even non-final ones) will show the near exact performance targets, and that's what will leak. Once we know that it'll be easy to line it up with what hardware can match it, to infere what the production system will use.

 

[twilo99]

Xbox One X also had significant architectural differences from the regular machine, which surely necessitated additional time and work. That shouldn't be the case this time around and if MS wants to try to stay relevant in console I don't think they could leave PS5 Pro alone for a full year.

Yes they can, it will make no difference..

 

[gooner4life_uk]

30 FPS won’t go away if those CPU specs are correct.

You're seriously overestimating the 20-30% uplift from Zen2 to Zen4, it's not 20/30% gaming performance, the reality is the Zen2 CPU is more than powerful enough with a clock speed increase/more cores if the GPU and memory bandwidth are uplifted, it will also be a case of balancing power/heat zen4 are all substantially more hungry.

 

[diffusionx]

Yes they can, it will make no difference..

If by that you mean it will go from increasingly irrelevant to increasingly irrelevant, I guess you’re right

 

[splattered]

I was surprised to see him in the TGA audience and then have Sony NOT reveal any hardware... i wonder if this was a game of chicken? Only reveal our hand if the other side does? I know it wouldn't work that way but would be funny if it were true.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I was surprised to see him in the TGA audience and then have Sony NOT reveal any hardware... i wonder if this was a game of chicken? Only reveal our hand if the other side does? I know it wouldn't work that way but would be funny if it were true.

You're looking too deep into it.

Cerny is an industry veteran, pretty sure he's on close terms with the likes of Keighly and many others so shouldn't be a surprise that he showed up there.

 

[twilo99]

If by that you mean it will go from increasingly irrelevant to increasingly irrelevant, I guess you’re right

Xbox sales have completely dropped off so there is very little downside margin available..

Either way the xsx will likely hold it’s own until the next box anyway

 

[Sethbacca]

30 FPS won’t go away if those CPU specs are correct.

If there is additional hardware for ray tracing wouldn't that free up some CPU to help push the main game logic? They may not need a ton of extra CPU if they're distributing the load.

 

[TheRedRiders]

If there is additional hardware for ray tracing wouldn't that free up some CPU to help push the main game logic? They may not need a ton of extra CPU if they're distributing the load.

Likeiwse a modest bump in the CPU's L3 cache would give it a noticeable boost as well.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Xbox One X also had significant architectural differences from the regular machine, which surely necessitated additional time and work. That shouldn't be the case this time around and if MS wants to try to stay relevant in console I don't think they could leave PS5 Pro alone for a full year.

I would be really surprised if that was the problem when the One S was also different than the original Xbox One. For me it was either them wanting to have a way better console than the Pro, and willing to wait for that to become possible, or being taken by surprise and deciding that having a strong answer, even if late, would be better than a worse console that would be out closer to the PS4 Pro.

The problem that Xbox have is that no matter what it will get difficult for them. From a marketing standpoint their offer is a premium product, and a entry level one. Having another one would mean changing a lot of their messaging and would be fascinating to see. If there is a Series S, X and a U for ultimate, how to market them all well and be consistent when those consoles are fated to hinder each other?

At the same time, yes if there is a PS5 Pro but no Xbox equivalent their S/X strategy will become a bigger problem. I think that is why we have people here like HeisenbergFX4 that say that we will have a early next gen from them. They will IMHO compete on price in the meantime, and that will bring another kind of problem to them as I think that the Switch 2 will really hurt the Series S market potential if Nintendo is smart.

 

[twilo99]

If there is additional hardware for ray tracing wouldn't that free up some CPU to help push the main game logic? They may not need a ton of extra CPU if they're distributing the load.

Don’t think CPU has anything to do with ray tracing

 

[gooner4life_uk]

Don’t think CPU has anything to do with ray tracing

CPU is a factor in everything, it still has to distribute the workloads, if your CPU is entirely bottlenecked then that will impact performance, that said, i don't think it will significantly change anything raytracing wise for PS5/Pro having a CPU uplift.

 

[Sethbacca]

Don’t think CPU has anything to do with ray tracing

I'll be the first to admit I don't know shit about all the technicalities, I just assumed that if there's no dedicated hardware in the existing PS5 that the calculations have to be happening somewhere so I just kind of assumed that there might be some resources freed up there.