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[ThatObviousUser]

Why would they not delay SS? They delayed Twilight Princess for a year so it could come out on the Wii.

1. Harder to port as it's a significant leap over Wii. Wii was just a bump over GameCube.
2. Don't want to set a precedent for porting last-gen titles.
3. They realize the Wii is a lot more successful and has a much higher install base than GC ever had, and will sell on Wii what TP sold combined on GC and Wii.

 

[AceBandage]

Why would they not delay SS? They delayed Twilight Princess for a year so it could come out on the Wii.

Delaying a game to put it on hardware that is basically the same is one thing.
Delaying a game to put it on hardware that is vastly different is another.

 

[Always-honest]

That's a fair point. But IMO they need to either go with an elegant solution or leave it in the lab. That finger thing they showed before was extremely limited in usability. Try playing with a controller while your finger has a big clamp stuck to it. It takes one hand out of commission. It was designed strictly for breathing meditations and other casual gimmicks.

Well, let's put it in then . Curious to see what devs come up with.

edit: ffuuuuukkk, now i'm all hyped about Pikmin 3 in HD....

 

[plainr_]

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

how much did gc sell in 2005 in america as a whole .. maybe 1,5 million units overall ?

Closer to 1.5 than 2 million.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Microsoft could do facial recognition thing via Kinect, but it's a lot less immediate and understandable than your remote showing "Hello Andy" when you put your thumb on it, turning on the Wii and bringing up your custom Home screen.

Automatic and foolproof parental controls as well. No faffing around with settings once family members have been registered.

That´s debatable. The user talking to the Xbox to initiate a session and the machine actually seeing it and saying "Hello Andy" could be as compelling, if not more depending the person. Parental controls fall in the range of possibilities for the Kinect also.

As for your list of uses. Some of there are interesting but not the rule changing stuff that its easy to apreciate, as the Wii was or Kinect is.

Actually, if the Vitality Sensor can be set up so it's just lying nearby, you could have a game like Fatal Frame that periodically tells you, "To open this door, use the Vitality Sensor" (like a key, if you would), and in doing so the game checks your pulse at the checkpoint.

Like that it won´t work. Nintendo needs to redesign the sensor for more practical and wide spread use. Implemented in the surface of the control its the way to go or as something less intrusive like a wristband for example.

http://i.imgur.com/XzPdt.jpg

That´s some interesting camera positioning. Good luck with that

the touch screen is a lie

the hd 6" screen is a streaming 3D helmet

two accurate wii motes in each hand with analogs or analog-like thingies
bring it

Used these type of devices in the past and they seemed cool to me. But look how hard is for some people to use glasses for 3D vieweing. Imagine a helmet or at least something heavier

 

[From The Dust]

not to mention, the Wii hasn't even had it's own Zelda yet. it already had 3 Marios. need to spread the love around

 

[Always-honest]

Closer to 1.5 than 2 million.

That's a shame. GC had the best exclusives imo.

 

[-COOLIO-]

the touch screen is a lie

the hd 6" screen is a streaming 3D helmet

two accurate wii motes in each hand with analogs or analog-like thingies

bring it

 

[Neiteio]

So everyone, the case for PIKMIN 3 on Project Cafe:

• In an Iwata Asks interview, Iwata explicitly notes a Pikmin game would benefit from HD
• EAD Group #4 has been working on Pikmin 3 since completing NSMB Wii...
• ...yet we still haven't seen anything; just reassurances from Miyamoto it's coming
• Pointer controls + touch screen controls = best RTS controls on a console
• More horsepower means more Pikmin, more enemies, more rendering
• HD means each critter, intricate detail, etc, is crisp and clear, no matter how small
• Project Cafe is HD; at least 360/PS3-level; has Wii controls and built-in touchscreen

It seems highly likely we will see Pikmin 3 for Cafe, hopefully alongside the rumored new character-driven, water-based IP from Miyamoto and F-Zero, which skipped a generation and has historically been a technical showcase (hence skipping Wii, which was too close power-wise to GCN).

Also, if Nintendo wants to make Pikmin 3 social and build on the two-player aspect of Pikmin 2, a true co-op campaign could work. With Cafe's power, each player could even have their own set of 100 Pikmin.

Bring it, Ninty.

In addition to Pikmin 3, F-Zero and Miyamoto's "Mermaids" for Cafe at E3 2011, I also suspect seeing Skyward Sword make the next-gen jump.

Nintendo likes repeating things that work out for them; releasing two TP SKUs worked well and got the Wii off to a strong start. (Wasn't the attach rate nearly 1:1 on launch day?) Plus, TP had more exposures as a GCN game (E3 2004, GDC 2005, E3 2005) before being delayed a year for Wii (E3 2006). As has been asked, what's to stop Nintendo doing it again? It would certainly explain why outside of a GDC trailer Nintendo has been virtually silent about the title. It's like they're avoiding too much talk of it as a Wii title to help make a Cafe version (or conversion) more palatable to the fans who've been waiting so long.

Also, re: the Wii-to-Cafe jump being so massive -- if they do two SKUs, then the Cafe version of SS may be just like a Wii game running on Dolphin, albeit fine-tuned for HD displays, and with the new control interface perks.

If on the other hand SS remains Wii-only, I see Wii having a strong E3 lineup, if NOA localizes some games. The potential is certainly there: Skyward Sword, Wii Play: Motion, Rhythm Heaven, Fatal Frame 2r, Kirby Wii, Xenoblade Chronicles and The Last Story.

Then for the 3DS there's the Mario trifecta -- Super Mario 3D, Mario Kart 3D and Paper Mario -- plus OoT 3D, Star Fox 64 3D, Mercenaries 3D, Revelations, MGS3, Kid Icarus Uprising, Animal Crossing, etc.

If you like Nintendo, it should be a killer E3. The guarantee of a Super Mario 3D appearance alone makes it a winner.

 

[Pyrokai]

But the 25th is only a week away.

What's on the 25th? WHAT'S ON THE 25TH?!

 

[Woffls]

Is there any way the reports of the 6" screen could just be straight up wrong? Maybe the device was 6" diagonally, but with a 4" screen or something? Because the 3DS has roughly those dimensions, and that would support all of us who are saying that it would be a good idea to use (3)DS as a controller.

25th is Nintendo's Q1 investor conference. I think it's Q1 anyway...

 

[Neiteio]

What's on the 25th? WHAT'S ON THE 25TH?!

Nintendo's investor meeting. Though I thought that was May 25, not April 25? At any rate, investors will be asking questions since news of Cafe has reached even CNN. One loud-mouth western dev studio breaks word of Cafe to a loud-mouth gaming pub (Game Informer), then the NDAs dissolve like ice cream in the sun and now the cat's out of the bag. It's in Nintendo's best interest to be upfront with investors about what's coming, just as they did with 3DS and the pre-announcement that a new handheld was coming offering DS backwards compatability and glasses-less 3D technology.

 

[AceBandage]

What's on the 25th? WHAT'S ON THE 25TH?!

Nintendo's Investor Meeting for the past fiscal year. They'll detail their plans for the future there.

 

[Jive Turkey]

not to mention, the Wii hasn't even had it's own Zelda yet. it already had 3 Marios. need to spread the love around

N64 never got its own Metroid and the GC never got its own Star Fox* so...

* NO IT DIDN'T

 

[1-D_FTW]

What's on the 25th? WHAT'S ON THE 25TH?!

Their Investor Relations report for the year. Smart money is saying Nintendo will want some distractions to throw out there.

 

[idwl]

Is this not considered a megathread now? How big can it get if we have a week to go!

 

[Fantastical]

SS isn't going to make the next gen jump unless Nintendo releases Cafe this holiday season. Wii never received its own Zelda.

 

[AceBandage]

Is this not considered a megathread now? How big can it get if we have a week to go!

It definitely is bigger than the 3DS reveal thread was in the same time period, but then, we have more to go on this time.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Is there any way the reports of the 6" screen could just be straight up wrong? Maybe the device was 6" diagonally, but with a 4" screen or something? Because the 3DS has roughly those dimensions, and that would support all of us who are saying that it would be a good idea to use (3)DS as a controller.

In that hypothetical scenario, it would´ve been a monumental f*ck up on Nintendo´s part to not promote the Wii/DS synch a lot earlier.

This type of control fits some J-RPGs really well, such a waste.

 

[hyduK]

In addition to Pikmin 3, F-Zero and Miyamoto's "Mermaids" for Cafe at E3 2011, I also suspect seeing Skyward Sword make the next-gen jump.

Nintendo likes repeating things that work out for them; releasing two TP SKUs worked well and got the Wii off to a strong start. (Wasn't the attach rate nearly 1:1 on launch day?) Plus, TP had more exposures as a GCN game (E3 2004, GDC 2005, E3 2005) before being delayed a year for Wii (E3 2006). As has been asked, what's to stop Nintendo doing it again? It would certainly explain why outside of a GDC trailer Nintendo has been virtually silent about the title. It's like they're avoiding too much talk of it as a Wii title to help make a Cafe version (or conversion) more palatable to the fans who've been waiting so long.

Also, re: the Wii-to-Cafe jump being so massive -- if they do two SKUs, then the Cafe version of SS may be just like a Wii game running on Dolphin, albeit fine-tuned for HD displays, and with the new control interface perks.

If on the other hand SS remains Wii-only, I see Wii having a strong E3 lineup, if NOA localizes some games. The potential is certainly there: Skyward Sword, Wii Play: Motion, Rhythm Heaven, Fatal Frame 2r, Kirby Wii, Xenoblade Chronicles and The Last Story.

Then for the 3DS there's the Mario trifecta -- Super Mario 3D, Mario Kart 3D and Paper Mario -- plus OoT 3D, Star Fox 64 3D, Mercenaries 3D, Revelations, MGS3, Kid Icarus Uprising, Animal Crossing, etc.

If you like Nintendo, it should be a killer E3. The guarantee of a Super Mario 3D appearance alone makes it a winner.

I honestly can't see them delaying Skyward Sword for a year. The Wii has nothing else of interest for this holiday. Besides...it made sense for TP to come out on both because the hardware was basically the same, they just needed to add motion. Porting SS to WiiHD would feel like a ripoff unless they actually updated the graphics (no, an HD port won't do, they need to make a new engine, needs to look like a PS3/360 game at the very least).

 

[KevinCow]

• Pointer controls + touch screen controls = best RTS controls on a console

I hadn't thought of that. The pointer pretty much solved the mouse issue, and a six inch touch screen would pretty much solve the hotkey issue.

Will the two be able to be used in conjunction, though?

 

[DECK'ARD]

That´s debatable. The user talking to the Xbox to initiate a session and the machine actually seeing it and saying "Hello Andy" could be as compelling, if not more depending the person. Parental controls fall in the range of possibilities for the Kinect also.

As for your list of uses. Some of there are interesting but not the rule changing stuff that its easy to apreciate, as the Wii was or Kinect is.

It's about tactile personalisation, picking up something that knows who you are and then communicates that fact. It's also foolproof, unlike detecting users by speech or facial recognition that depends on lighting.

And it's not about looking at individual uses as the rule-changing stuff, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. A console that 1) knows who you are, and 2) knows how you are feeling, is very easy to market and appreciate.

The user would get an experience unique and personalised to them, potentially unique every time they play it, by however the developers choose to apply the technology. That's far more rule changing than game-streaming or a touchscreen in a controller.

Just depends how out-there Nintendo are thinking this time round, but we know from the vitality sensor that they've been looking into it. It was either dumped because it was useless, or it was dumped because it had far more potential than they realised and was better integrated into a new controller and console. As happened with the Wiimote.

 

[NewFresh]

It definitely is bigger than the 3DS reveal thread was in the same time period, but then, we have more to go on this time.

So much, yet so little

 

[Neiteio]

I hadn't thought of that. The pointer pretty much solved the mouse issue, and a six inch touch screen would pretty much solve the hotkey issue.

Will the two be able to be used in conjunction, though?

We don't know if the pointer controls and touchscreen controls, each confirmed separately, will be able to be used in conjunction. However, we do know that games in development can influence hardware design. Wasn't it Retro Studios' work on Metroid Prime 3 that convinced Nintendo to go from their original design of Wiimote only to Wiimote with nunchuk attachment? I believe it was. Which makes me think, in light of Iwata commenting on how Pikmin would benefit from HD, that Nintendo would also see the benefits of pointer and touch control in Pikmin, and perhaps factor this into Cafe's design.

Such controls are certainly a compelling combination. Add in the benefits of added horsepower -- 200 Pikmin! 300 Pikmin! Amazing draw distance! -- and HD, being able to see each Pikmin, Bulborb, blade of grass, etc, with stunning clarity even as the camera pans way, way back... And Pikmin 3 is THE title to showcase so many of Cafe's strengths.

Based on what little we know, of course...

 

[M74]

http://i.imgur.com/XzPdt.jpg

I... might not hate this. Though, I'd be concerned over having to reach across the second thumbstick to reach the buttons. And it would need a second front facing camera in order to work when held sideways.

 

[Fantastical]

Is this not considered a megathread now? How big can it get if we have a week to go!

Oh my god... your avatar. :O

 

[Bizzyb]

It's completely stupid to think that DQX and Zelda SS would move to a new console.

It's not all about momentum of consoles, in games like DQ, it's about userbase (active or not, in that game it doesn't matter). If you release a DQ game at launch, you will limit the sales to only the people that buys the console at launch, and the DQ fanbase is a different one than that. It would be the stupidest move S-E could ever make.

That's banking HEAVILY on a non active userbase. Could SE be willing to take that chance? When Wii console sales have plummeted so far and software interest has followed? This isn't like it was with PSX or PS2. I'm not saying the game would bomb, but it would do nowhere near as well as it would were they to release on a system that has MUCH more buzz and excitement. I don't even think most people would even want to play the game with the Wiimote anymore or ever did. Like I said, userbase has meant NOTHING to publishers on the Wii this generation.

Game will also appear on Wii2. Otherwise I see no reason why they would wait so long to make any kind of meaningful announcements esp when they announced it's existence more than 2 years ago. Hell we know more about FF Agito, KH3DS and FF Versus XIII than we do DQX. That's no coincidence either and if were simply a Wii game that wouldn't be the case.

Zelda SS is built from the ground to be on the Wii; if the rumors about the new controller are true, there is absolutely no chance ever it will be released on another console; SS relays heavily on the Wiimote+ + Nunchuk setup; and all of the game's assets are in SD resolution, and built for a machine with the technical capabilities of the Wii. You are mad if you think they'll release a port of a Wii game to showcase the ability of the new console.

The case of TP is different; it was designed for the GCN, but it worked as a Wii launch title because the technical ability of the Wii is very similar as the one on the GCN.

Bullshit. TP was built ground up with GC in mind too. Nintendo pulled the SAME thing with TP. Considering Wii2 is BC with Wii, I don't see why there would be a problem. In Fact Wii2 controls might actually further enhance the game. The same was done with GC --> Wii i.e. 480p res, widescreen and enhanced controls. Same will be done with Wii --> Wii2 i.e. 1080ps, enhanced graphics, better controls, more features.

Also people were swearing that Pikmin 3 was a Wii title. I said no, it's a WiiHD title (and provided TONS of clues and reasons as to why it's not coming to Wii) , but no, people were like "Miyamoto said it's coming to Wii"

These companies can change their minds and DO ALL THE TIME. Games get canned and moved all the time. Just be/c they say one thing 3 months or a year ago doesn't mean shit. Esp when they go dark with announcements for several months at a time. In fact that's when these types of things usually DO happen

 

[Neiteio]

I... might not hate this. Though, I'd be concerned over having reach across the second thumbstick to reach the buttons.

Might make more sense to put the four face buttons on the attachment, alongside and to the right of the second analog stick. Similarly, another attachment could go on top, perhaps with the first analog stick and a d-pad to the left of it. If the controller has a front-facing camera in the sense of Wii's IR pointer, the connector port could be above it, and the attachment could have its own camera/IR pointer on top as well (did WiiMotion Plus connect to a connector port while having its own connector port as well?).

Nintendo trusted us to not get confused by the idea of attaching the nunchuk, classic controller, Wii wheel or Zapper, so they're not beyond asking us to "assemble" a controller. Well, at least with two parts, they're not.

 

[idwl]

Oh my god... your avatar. :O

Hahahaha sorry for the distraction, But he is dreamy isn't he. mmmm . Brandon stoughton - Have fun

 

[KevinCow]

In addition to Pikmin 3, F-Zero and Miyamoto's "Mermaids" for Cafe at E3 2011, I also suspect seeing Skyward Sword make the next-gen jump.

What's this?

Also, where did the name Cafe come from?

 

[dark10x]

N64 never got its own Metroid and the GC never got its own Star Fox* so...

* NO IT DIDN'T

The Namco Starfox was good, though. Screw the haters.

 

[Chittagong]

that's pretty great, and revolutionary.

but can a display be cut like that?

 

[From The Dust]

N64 never got its own Metroid and the GC never got its own Star Fox* so...

* NO IT DIDN'T

no one gives a shit about those. it's all about the Zelda

 

[Neiteio]

What's this?

Also, where did the name Cafe come from?

As per the thread title (don't blame you for missing it as the thread title changed at least a dozen times), various sources are now reporting that Nintendo's new HD console is codenamed Project Cafe. Some have said first- and third-party titles will even be showcased at E3 2011; whether they will be playable remains unknown. And early word is this is all for a fall 2012 launch.

As for "Mermaids," there have been rumblings that Miyamoto's new IP will have something to do with water. This stems from an incident where a reporter asked what his next character-driven IP will be, and Miyamoto said he's not allowed to talk about it, at which point he added he's not allowed to talk about his hobbies, either, as they usually influence his work (gardening --> Pikmin; dog --> Nintendogs; fitness --> Wii Fit). He did mention, however, that he's been swimming a lot lately, as though he were hinting. This is where the tenuous link was established that his next IP must involve water. "Mermaids" is just what people like to imagine it would feature, so don't take that literally.

 

[Refreshment.01]

It's about tactile personalisation, picking up something that knows who you are and then communicates that fact. It's also foolproof, unlike detecting users by speech or facial recognition that depends on lighting.

Don´t know how much the cuarrent iteration of Kinect holds up. But the technology bathes space with infrared ligt, so lighting conditions don´t present much of a problem.

And it's not about looking at individual uses as the rule-changing stuff, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. A console that 1) knows who you are, and 2) knows how you are feeling, is very easy to market and appreciate.

The user would get an experience unique and personalised to them, potentially unique every time they play it, by however the developers choose to apply the technology. That's far more rule changing than game-streaming or a touchscreen in a controller.

And so far that`s what it is, a good sounding marketing mantra. We have been talking about it and we just have come up with tangencial and superficial uses for it. Yes, it totaly can end up in the console, but just that alone cant be the only thing Nintendo is counting on.

As a side note and slightly OT, remember that Ubisoft demostrated a bio sensor for gameplay before Nintendo. Well Ubi did bad there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Q6Y0CkAQM

 

[Neiteio]

that's pretty great, and revolutionary.

but can a display be cut like that?

I don't think so, which is why they should just make the bar the screen, and include two attachments: one for the top with a d-pad, analog stick and its own camera (to solve obscuring the bar's camera); and another for the bottom with the second analog stick and four face buttons (in that order). And each attachment would also have its own bumpers/triggers. Can someone do a mockup of this?

 

[hyduK]

Bullshit. TP was built ground up with GC in mind too. Nintendo pulled the SAME thing with TP. Considering Wii2 is BC with Wii, I don't see why there would be a problem. In Fact Wii2 controls might actually further enhance the game. The same was done with GC --> Wii i.e. 480p res, widescreen and enhanced controls. Same will be done with Wii --> Wii2 i.e. 1080ps, enhanced graphics, better controls, more features.

The Wii is barely different from the GC hardware wise, and based off these reports Wii2 is significantly more powerful than the Wii. Nintendo delaying SS for a year to port it to Wii2 and not taking FULL (ie. a new engine, making it 1080p is nowhere near enough, that's something you do with an HD collection [ie. one that would include WW, TP, OoT, MM]) advantage of the hardware would be insulting, to say the least.

The TP scenario was acceptable in that even if they had built a new Zelda from the ground up for the Wii, it wouldn't look that much better, so they really just added some cheap waggle and released it on both. Regardless, the fact that it was delayed a year for the GameCube which at the time had next to nothing new releasing was shitty and lazy on Nintendo's part.

Release SS this year, start working on a real next gen Zelda, and have that out by 2013. It's already taken them long enough to release SS.

 

[IsntChrisL]

I don't think Zelda will be ported over to Wii2. It's not the same situation as last time. This new system is a much bigger leap in power and it doesn't release until the end of next year.

Besides isn't the game basically almost done? Are they really gonna waste time and assets on one of the Wii's few exclusives and extend its release a full year, continuing the Wii's first party drought? I find it hard to believe myself. It was kind of a shock when they did it with TP, but these circumstances are more extreme, IMO.

If anything, I think they will bring a new Mario out at launch and hopefully a new IP.

 

[idwl]

when did Miyamoto start talking about him swimming? Could he have been referring to steel diver.

 

[M74]

As per the thread title (don't blame you for missing it as the thread title changed at least a dozen times), various sources are now reporting that Nintendo's new HD console is codenamed Project Cafe. Some have said first- and third-party titles will even be showcased at E3 2011; whether they will be playable remains unknown. And early word is this is all for a fall 2012 launch.

As for "Mermaids," there have been rumblings that Miyamoto's new IP will have something to do with water. This stems from an incident where a reporter asked what his next character-driven IP will be, and Miyamoto said he's not allowed to talk about it, at which point he added he's not allowed to talk about his hobbies, either, as they usually influence his work (gardening --> Pikmin; dog --> Nintendogs; fitness --> Wii Fit). He did mention, however, that he's been swimming a lot lately, as though he were hinting. This is where the tenuous link was established that his next IP must involve water. "Mermaids" is just what people like to imagine it would feature, so don't take that literally.

Considering water levels are the most annoying things ever in Miyamoto games, we should be afraid. Very, very afraid.

 

[Maxwell House]

Nintendo will never capture the hardcore market if the new Nintendo console is only slightly more powerful than the 360. That is ridiculous considering that 360 will be 7 year old technology by the time the new Nintendo system releases. And it sure as hell will look absolutely primitive come 2013 when the next Microsoft and Sony systems release.

 

[DECK'ARD]

that's pretty great, and revolutionary.

but can a display be cut like that?

No, I don't think there's any example of screens with holes in them.

You could in theory overlay the buttons on top of the screen, but how you'd keep them in place is another matter. Also pressing buttons to then press a touchscreen sounds far from ideal.

It's a cool concept, but at best a manufacturing nightmare and at worst impossible.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Again, touchscreen controls make no sense because you have too look at the gamepad to use them. There must be something else are the rumors or wrong. What's the point if it's just a touchscreen?

 

[From The Dust]

Again, touchscreen controls make no sense because you have too look at the gamepad to use them. There must be something else are the rumors or wrong. What's the point if it's just a touchscreen?

they could always use a touchpad

 

[hyduK]

Nintendo will never capture the hardcore market if the new Nintendo console is only slightly more powerful than the 360. That is ridiculous considering that 360 will be 7 year old technology by the time the new Nintendo system releases. And it sure as hell will look absolutely primitive come 2013 when the next Microsoft and Sony systems release.

The majority of the 'hardcore' market owns a Wii, and will buy a Wii2 simply because of the 4-5 Nintendo games that they feel are must-plays.

 

[Zeal]

i don't want to hold a freakin' stick again for a controller. i want something more traditional.

sure, throw all the motion control and sensor bells and whistles in if you want, but give me a controller shape at least similar to 360/ps3's. i hated turning that Wiimote stick sideways.

 

[Poyunch]

i don't want to hold a freakin' stick again for a controller. i want something more traditional.

sure, throw all the motion control and sensor bells and whistles in if you want, but give me a controller shape at least similar to 360/ps3's. i hated turning that Wiimote stick sideways.

But it's a nostalgia trip for some people. :O

 

[aronnov reborn]

no one gives a shit about those. it's all about the Zelda

Quoted for Truth

 

[Woffls]

The majority of the 'hardcore' market owns a Wii, and will buy a Wii2 simply because of the 4-5 Nintendo games that they feel are must-plays.

Most of the core market just yaps on about how their Wii's are collecting dust and how much they'd rather play iPhone games than Zelda. I honestly think a big proportion of core gamers have no interest in Nintendo beyond a scapegoat for when bad things happen in the industry that can't be blamed on Activision or Michael Pachter. They need 3rd parties now, because Nintendo isn't relevant to a lot of 'enthusiasts'.

[edit] Sorry, that turned into a rant >_< I don't think Nintendo are as popular with the core gaming demographic as you seem to be implying.