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[Big One]

I think an actual tablet wouldn't be very ergonomic. The more "gamey" the better, considering that's what a control is used for: to play video games.

 

[watershed]

None of these mock ups look comfortable to hold. That immediate tactile feel of a controller is like a first impression it can make a big difference. I hope Nintendo's designers have done a better job than Kotaku.

 

[Rush2thestart]

No pointer = shit, forever. Forever shit. Shitever.

If it doesnt have a split controller design, I dont see it having pointer controls. Which is truly a damn shame.

 

[MidnightCowboy]

I'm afraid at how expensive these controllers are going to be. Controllers already cost too much, now they're adding a screen? My wallet weeps at the thought of the inevitable 4 player Project Cafe Smash Bros.

 

[GDGF]

Why the hell would they say it looks like that Wii tablet and then show a mockup that bares only the slightest resemblance?

Answer: There's gotta be a stylus. And it doubles as a pointer.

I could dig a WiiMotion Plus stylus. It would solve the problem of having to put a legacy controller in the box. Not saying the regular WiiMotion Plus won't work for it though.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

I'm afraid at how expensive these controllers are going to be. Controllers already cost too much, now they're adding a screen? My wallet weeps at the thought of the inevitable 4 player Project Cafe Smash Bros.

I have a hard time seeing Nintendo requiring the tablet controller for all 4 players for Smash Bros. It would be an option of course and perhaps one that offers optional advantages compared to using a CCPro/Wiimote. I wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being like 6 controller options for it, along with other major 4 player coop games (Mario Kart, NSMB, etc).

Assuming of course a wavebird with an accelerometer, cheap camera, and 6" screen is all that expensive in the first place. The main question for me, will Nintendo go with at least a 0.9 MPixel camera this time.

 

[Anth0ny]

I'm afraid at how expensive these controllers are going to be. Controllers already cost too much, now they're adding a screen? My wallet weeps at the thought of the inevitable 4 player Project Cafe Smash Bros.

To be honest, I'm not too worried about that. "Bring your own controller" is a rule that has become the norm within my group of friends.

Also, I'm 99% sure that if Cafe can use Wiimotes/Classic Controllers, Smash 4 and other popular multiplayer games will be compatible with those.

I'd be willing to buy a second controller if they release something like Wii Play again. If not, no dice.

 

[donny2112]

Answer: There's gotta be a stylus. And it doubles as a pointer.

I hate FPSs on DS. Touching the bottom screen to move the camera on the top screen stinks. Metroid Prime Hunters got it right with one of the control styles in the demo (touch where you want to shoot), and then they went and screwed it up in the retail game. Pointer is way stinking better than the huge step backward typical DS FPS controls would be.

Sheesh, I hope that freaking 6" screen in the middle of the stupid controller is some kind of misunderstanding, because every mockup I've seen of how it would work is just horrible.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Ugh, that tap to shoot was the worst goddamn thing in Hunters. The standard scheme was so incredibly better.

 

[donny2112]

Ugh, that tap to shoot was the worst ... thing in Hunters. The standard scheme was so incredibly better.

Obviously, I've seen that my opinion isn't the majority one around boards. :lol Still hate those typical DS FPS controls, though. Forced myself to play all the way through Hunters, but boy, was it a massive chore, and not just because the game was bland.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

I hate FPSs on DS. Touching the bottom screen to move the camera on the top screen stinks. Metroid Prime Hunters got it right with one of the control styles in the demo (touch where you want to shoot), and then they went and screwed it up in the retail game. Pointer is way stinking better than the huge step backward typical DS FPS controls would be.

Errrrr,..., going with EmmCeeGamr on that.

Sheesh, I hope that freaking 6" screen in the middle of the stupid controller is some kind of misunderstanding, because every mockup I've seen of how it would work is just horrible.

Maybe it's misplaced trust, or simple BELIEVE, but if Nintendo is going with it (and not just for get it out the door already reasons like with Virtual Boy) then I suspect it has to work just fine. I thought there was a "source" much much earlier in the thread that said it sounds incredibly stupid, until you see it. For whatever that's worth.

Obviously, I've seen that my opinion isn't the majority one around boards. :lol Still hate those typical DS FPS controls, though. Forced myself to play all the way through Hunters, but boy, was it a massive chore, and not just because the game was bland.

Heh, at one point I owned 5 DS FPS'. I was more bothered by the 4 enemy limit than the controls.

 

[donny2112]

I thought there was a "source" much much earlier in the thread that said it sounds incredibly stupid,

I'm there.

until you see it. For whatever that's worth.

Not there, yet. Maybe next week. Or E3. :lol

Regardless, if they got rid of the pointer, ... I just don't know what to say. It's like choosing concrete over chocolate or something. Just flabbergastful (not a word, but if it was a word, it'd fit) in its stupidity.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

I'm there.



Not there, yet. Maybe next week. Or E3. :lol

Regardless, if they got rid of the pointer, ... I just don't know what to say. It's like choosing concrete over chocolate or something. Just flabbergastful (not a word, but if it was a word, it'd fit) in its stupidity.

If I'm not mistaken, another "source" said (I know, a remembering of what someone said some else said a "source" said, rock solid) it comes with an enhanced sensor bar. Given the huge number of wiimotes in the wild I can't see pointer going away. I take the tablet controller to be the new CCPro, or even something else entirely.

Either way, we should see soon enough. Interesting to discuss but nothing to get flabbergastfulled at just yet I think. Plenty of time for that later if it's needed.

 

[Anticitizen One]

the french site said it looks like

that looks like a babies toy

 

[blame space]

this thread is lunacy

 

[blame space]

god damnit the portal thread says that same word

 

[JesseZao]

that looks like a babies toy

...from the future!

err, past.

 

[Haint]

well that is kind of stupid, then that is not a console/handheld hypbrid, that is just bundling a handheld and a console together which is stupid. Why didn't GBA come with GameCube, why didn;t DS come with Wii, hell why doesn't NGP come with PS4. I will tell you why because it is pointless and only add to the cost, what is the point if it is not truly a hybrid, and they will have seperate games, this is basically just selling 2 devices together for no apparent reason. Like I said many times before having a screen on a controller does not make the price anwhere near a price of full handheld console.

The difference with Cafe is that they're basically bundling a (presumably) semi-dumb, local tethered portable with every console. This is not a situation that's in any way comparable to your other examples. Make no mistake, this controller will be expensive (at least $99 if it's indeed a capacitive 6.2" 800x480 screen with WiHD streaming) and it will require many of the components a stand alone portable would--just lower spec. Since there are many redundancies between the two, the cost difference between building this as "dumb" device Vs. a single screen 3DS (likely w/o the 3D) would be fairly low. You need look no further than a 3DS tear down to see the bulk of the cost is going to be in shared components--regardless of whether it's "dumb" or "smart". Hence my comments, why does the 3DS even exist and why didn't they just make this controller their new portable.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Maybe this tablet will be the fabled "ipad killer"

 

[Haint]

Maybe this tablet will be the fabled "ipad killer"

That is unquestionably their aim. They're after players even more casual than Wii with this thing--people that play iOS minigames and facebook games.

 

[Vic]

That is unquestionably their aim. They're after players even more casual than Wii with this thing--people that play iOS minigames and facebook games.

Shrug.

 

[Gvaz]

that looks like a babies toy

Much like the wii

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Well, I prefer the remote. Actually, it's more than "prefer." I cannot play FPS on dual analog. I just can't. So that's the big deal to me.

And beyond FPS, the potential just wasn't ever tapped. Sure, we got CoD, but it was missing content. If Cafe stuck with the remote, we could get all the full HD content as well as the best controls for an FPS. We never got that.

We never got a TPS with the controls of RE4Wii that was actually built from the ground up for it. Even though we passed the test. It looks like we're finally getting a pointer-based action title with Pandora's Tower, and that won't make it out of Japan. Nyxquest, a Wiiware title, was the game to probably exploit the pointer the best for platformers. But that's a tiny downloadable game.

There's just so much potential yet to be had for traditional "core" genres, but obstinate gamers and ignorant enthusiast media kept whining how the Wii was all waggle and couldn't work for conventional games.

Wait, people who hated the waggle are obstinate but you who can't use an analogue forfps aren't? Ihate the Wii mote. I tried it withboth Metroids, Super smash bros, bothGalaxies and NSMB. I hate it. I will not buy Zelda because ofthe waggle. I am hyped for the New console BECAUSE the old schoolcontrols seemto be back. The waggle and Wii mote controls can go burn in a land dump where they belong.

 

[M74]

If I'm not mistaken, another "source" said (I know, a remembering of what someone said some else said a "source" said, rock solid) it comes with an enhanced sensor bar. Given the huge number of wiimotes in the wild I can't see pointer going away.

Problem is if they are hoping this new controller and the Wiimotes of yesteryear can coexist, if they push this system based on the new controller, developers may decline to program alternate control schemes allowing for pointer control. And despite the massive adoption of the Wii, developers can't trust with certainty that the new install base will actually own Wiimotes. Fact of the matter is, there will be people who buy the new console who didn't own a Wii or buy Wiimotes. Given those conditions, developers may decline to program for pointer controls in droves.

Unless two controllers are in the box, of course.

 

[Gvaz]

I hate FPSs on DS. Touching the bottom screen to move the camera on the top screen stinks. Metroid Prime Hunters got it right with one of the control styles in the demo (touch where you want to shoot), and then they went and screwed it up in the retail game. Pointer is way stinking better than the huge step backward typical DS FPS controls would be.

Sheesh, I hope that freaking 6" screen in the middle of the stupid controller is some kind of misunderstanding, because every mockup I've seen of how it would work is just horrible.

I agree with this whole heartedly. I find it just awkward to control.

Then again I bitch and moan with ALL fps games that aren't KB/M instead.

 

[Anticitizen One]

That is unquestionably their aim. They're after players even more casual than Wii with this thing--people that play iOS minigames and facebook games.

I gotta say that iOS games are getting better and better. I love playin Asphalt 6, real racing 2, rage hd, world of goo, and dead space on my ipad. I'm excited to see what Nintendo can do with tablet technology.

 

[Gvaz]

Someone said in the "Epic is upset at $1 games" thread that handheld (phone, not console) games are throwaways, and now they're a lot better, more like real games etc

Where are people saying this? Is it because of the graphics? Graphics don't make a game good or bad, but make it easier to bite into. Because all of the gameplay for the couple dozen different iOS games I've played I still consider them not worth any price whatsoever (which is pretty much the definition of throwaway to me)

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

While I doubt the pointer is going away, that was by far the most used part of the wiimote, I can see waggle going away. Not only was it not used much outside of a few games (and my favorite at least, MKWii wheel, could be easily replaced with the tablet controller), but also I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo doesn't view the blue ocean as "waggle" gaming anymore.

I don't mean they view the old red ocean as the new blue ocean, but rather the area of gaming Apple is moving into. Iwata has said he views Apple as the main competitor to Nintendo. That new area is I think, for lack of a better word, anywhere multi-entertainment. Well of course, the 3DS does this, why a console? Other than not wanting the console to become a dinosaur, it has many advantages.

1) still providing an easy link to a large TV.
2) much more powerful than a handheld.
3) by providing the power, the tablet just has to be a cheap receiver with buttons and a screen.
4) given 3, amazing battery life (compared to mobile devices)

In that way, within a house the new tablet controller can become a superior replacement for netbooks, tablet PC's, smartphones for multi-entertainment (or most of it at least) while also providing the traditional gaming experience on a TV. As well as being an improved DA controller for traditional gamers. The wiimote/nunchuck would still exist and could be used, almost entirely for pointing I'd assume.

Yes this is admitting the market is shrinking but I think that's baked in the cake. I think Nintendo's plan is basically to grab the largest share it can of the future shrunken gaming market. Going against MS with a Super Wii and Super Kinect would just be fighting over the old blue ocean while Apple and others move in to the new one.

Yes, this also means moving into some of the 3DS' market, but I don't think Nintendo has much choice. In the new entertainment paradigm one or the other will have to give. The trick will be giving just enough that they both survive, and I think, as Nintendo apparently does, that this is the best way to do that.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Problem is if they are hoping this new controller and the Wiimotes of yesteryear can coexist, if they push this system based on the new controller, developers may decline to program alternate control schemes allowing for pointer control. And despite the massive adoption of the Wii, developers can't trust with certainty that the new install base will actually own Wiimotes. Fact of the matter is, there will be people who buy the new console who didn't own a Wii or buy Wiimotes. Given those conditions, developers may decline to program for pointer controls in droves.

Unless two controllers are in the box, of course.

Well, we're all assuming at this point, but yeah I'm assuming:
1) the old wiimote and new one, should it exist, are compatible if not the same.
2) wiimotes will either be dropped massively in price or packed in with the system.

Although, I also thought when WM+ came out that Nintendo should run commercials telling people to register their Wii and get 2 free WM+ units mailed to them. Didn't happen, so who knows. Then again, I assumed it would be the core to the next stage of the Wii.

 

[watershed]

Yes, this also means moving into some of the 3DS' market, but I don't think Nintendo has much choice. In the new entertainment paradigm one or the other will have to give. The trick will be giving just enough that they both survive, and I think, as Nintendo apparently does, that this is the best way to do that.

I'm confused why are we talking about Nintendo "needing to survive" or sounding like the video game industry is in jeopardy? Last I checked Nintendo is doing pretty well and the video game industry, though it does have its share of internal problems, is doing pretty well too.

 

[Red]

By the same people that claim they can see the difference. Sure.

I haven't come across a single person that can tell the difference unless they've read it somewhere beforehand.

As long as the graphics are great and the framerate doesn't drop, they can't tell the difference.

Insane.

 

[whalleywhat]

Nobodies trying to beat the ipad with a home console.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

I'm confused why are we talking about Nintendo "needing to survive" or sounding like the video game industry is in jeopardy? Last I checked Nintendo is doing pretty well and the video game industry, though it does have its share of internal problems, is doing pretty well too.

Well that post went on too long, and my response started to, so I'll just say no the video game industry isn't in jeopardy and I shouldn't have said "survive". Nintendo systems should always have kids and fans which combined with their philosophy should be enough to survive. That being said the traditional video game market is shrinking, so I think Nintendo's goal has moved from "expanding the market" to "grab as much of the smaller market as possible". With a handheld and a console that is a juggling act, which Nintendo has to perform especially given where the new market is moving to. Also, a juggling act given the new and old blue oceans.

Nobodies trying to beat the ipad with a home console.

Did someone say that?

 

[gerg]

Much like the wii

Sick burn.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

For the record, that two GBAs devkit isn't actually a devkit

It was what AlphaDream used to start Partners in Time because they had not received their devkit yet but wanted to make a DS game. So they approximated based on the things Nintendo had said.

 

[Instro]

the french site said it looks like

with buttons around. I hate all of this. Wii remote was such a good idea.

They said that the new remote and the udraw share some similarities, not that they look alike.

 

[watershed]

Well that post went on too long, and my response started to, so I'll just say no the video game industry isn't in jeopardy and I shouldn't have said "survive". Nintendo systems should always have kids and fans which combined with their philosophy should be enough to survive. That being said the traditional video game market is shrinking, so I think Nintendo's goal has moved from "expanding the market" to "grab as much of the smaller market as possible". With a handheld and a console that is a juggling act, which Nintendo has to perform especially given where the new market is moving to. Also, a juggling act given the new and old blue oceans.

Okay its good to see you are at least talking sense because Nintendo threads tend to bring out the crazy.

I do think that we are giving too much credence to this idea that Nintendo is trying to "recapture the hardcore". While Nintendo will pack this console with more muscle and other features/design elements and a philosophical approach intended to appeal to "hardcore" gamers, their bread and butter, as you say, will always be kids and families. So I think this console will still appeal to this core market of consumers and the "expanded audience" they helped create.

Basically some people have posted that this console means Nintendo is ditching the "casuals" and unless kids, young teens, and families aren't included in the definition of "casual gamers" I don't believe it.

 

[Hesemonni]

Much like the wii

That was too easy really.

 

[M74]

Just a thought: I took another look at the latest IGN article. If their source is so talkative about the GPU, cores, clockspeeds, and even the manufacturer, how come no one bothered to ask about RAM? That would be pretty telling about where we're going, if accurate. So far, no one's taken a stab at it from what I've seen.

 

[likeGdid]

Probably late with this thought but:

What if the new controller utilizes existing Wii-motes as part of it? Surely it would keep costs somewhat down?

 

[evangd007]

I think some of the comments prove that graphics just don't matter. I mean, many people can't tell the difference in graphics unless someone tells them it's good. If they were to judge by themselves, many people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

I once trolled one of my friends by showing him a picture of Darkside Chronicles and telling him it was RE5 DLC. Hook, line, sinker.

 

[antonz]

Just a thought: I took another look at the latest IGN article. If their source is so talkative about the GPU, cores, clockspeeds, and even the manufacturer, how come no one bothered to ask about RAM? That would be pretty telling about where we're going, if accurate. So far, no one's taken a stab at it from what I've seen.

Problem is Devkits basically never have the same ram as the unit itself. I think the reality is the source doesnt have the kinda detailed specs the NGP leaker obviously had access too.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Okay its good to see you are at least talking sense because Nintendo threads tend to bring out the crazy.

I do think that we are giving too much credence to this idea that Nintendo is trying to "recapture the hardcore". While Nintendo will pack this console with more muscle and other features/design elements and a philosophical approach intended to appeal to "hardcore" gamers, their bread and butter, as you say, will always be kids and families. So I think this console will still appeal to this core market of consumers and the "expanded audience" they helped create.

Basically some people have posted that this console means Nintendo is ditching the "casuals" and unless kids, young teens, and families aren't included in the definition of "casual gamers" I don't believe it.

Well I never talk crazy so I'm not sure where that idea came from. Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I think how families and new gamers play games in the next 5 years, at least, will be different than the Brain Training/Wii Sports days. It's more about being able to play games whenever, wherever, along with having other entertainment options in between. This console sounds to me like appealing to them, the "hardcore" gamer to what extent it can, and tradition Nintendo fans and kids. The best Nintendo can hope for IMHO.

To me it seems like releasing UeberWii mit UeberKinect would be slugging it out over a stale market. The market Apple is going for is the new one, and since it's not established and Nintendo can offer a greater degree of differentiation compared to a battle with MS, that seems the better bet to me.

 

[Christine]

While I doubt the pointer is going away, that was by far the most used part of the wiimote, I can see waggle going away.

Not unless Nintendo radically changes the technology they use to implement pointing. The remote uses the accelerometers to keep track of which direction is "up" relative to the IR camera's FOV. Without them, the pointer would experience significant drift corresponding to any left or right roll of the remote. A complete pointer implementation carries the waggle along with it at no additional cost.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Not unless Nintendo radically changes the technology they use to implement pointing. The remote uses the accelerometers to keep track of which direction is "up" relative to the IR camera's FOV. Without them, the pointer would experience significant drift corresponding to any left or right roll of the remote. A complete pointer implementation carries the waggle along with it at no additional cost.

I meant in game use, like waggle to reload, not in the unit.

 

[Polo67]

I hope this thing can run Battle field 3 on max settings.. would be awesome.. especially with a gimmick controller.. E3 needs to hurry up

 

[Christine]

I meant in game use, like waggle to reload, not in the unit.

That's a decision that would take place on a per-game basis. As a primary action button it's got its drawbacks, but for less frequent actions, including the example you cite, I don't see any reason why it'd be dropped. No matter how many physical buttons you put on the controller, waggle adds at least one more input.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Studies have proven it.

Ugh. This is why games have to be 60fps for me. 30fps looks like shit in comparison unless the animation is really lacking.

 

[watershed]

Well I never talk crazy so I'm not sure where that idea came from. Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I think how families and new gamers play games in the next 5 years, at least, will be different than the Brain Training/Wii Sports days. It's more about being able to play games whenever, wherever, along with having other entertainment options in between. This console sounds to me like appealing to them, the "hardcore" gamer to what extent it can, and tradition Nintendo fans and kids. The best Nintendo can hope for IMHO.

To me it seems like releasing UeberWii mit UeberKinect would be slugging it out over a stale market. The market Apple is going for is the new one, and since it's not established and Nintendo can offer a greater degree of differentiation compared to a battle with MS, that seems the better bet to me.

I think over time, with the right software and with the console at the right price (rumors suggest it will be too high at launch) the casuals will adopt this new system. Nintendo is a very powerful brand and families love buying Nintendo during the holidays.

Of course right out of the gate the long time Nintendo fans and core gamers will be the first to adopt. I think as long as the system is powerful enough and has the right features (digital distribution, online set up, multimedia) it will attract far more of the "hardcore" market than the Wii did. A lot of people seem to think that Nintendo is moving forward from a position of weakness but that's not how I see it, granted they have some catching up to do in terms of the features their consoles offer.

btw the crazy comment was in reference to how adamant some posters are about Nintendo's doomed future or declaring with absolute certainty that they KNOW what Nintendo is going to do. Speculation is fun, soothsaying the future is impossible.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

That's a decision that would take place on a per-game basis. As a primary action button it's got its drawbacks, but for less frequent actions, including the example you cite, I don't see any reason why it'd be dropped. No matter how many physical buttons you put on the controller, waggle adds at least one more input.

I think "waggle" will not be the key emphasis for Wii2, it will be anytime, anywhere (in your house), multi-entertainment. I also think the wiimote will remain so it can continue as an option and could be used. Even if it shrinks the "waggle" casual market will still exist and Nintendo could easily access it cheaply (for itself), so no reason not to.

I think over time, with the right software and with the console at the right price (rumors suggest it will be too high at launch) the casuals will adopt this new system. Nintendo is a very powerful brand and families love buying Nintendo during the holidays.

Of course right out of the gate the long time Nintendo fans and core gamers will be the first to adopt. I think as long as the system is powerful enough and has the right features (digital distribution, online set up, multimedia) it will attract far more of the "hardcore" market than the Wii did. A lot of people seem to think that Nintendo is moving forward from a position of weakness but that's not how I see it, granted they have some catching up to do in terms of the features their consoles offer.

btw the crazy comment was in reference to how adamant some posters are about Nintendo's doomed future or declaring with absolute certainty that they KNOW what Nintendo is going to do. Speculation is fun, soothsaying the future is impossible.

Ahh, well, my never talking crazy makes sense then. I think the "casuals" will eventually adopt it, but then I think the definition of "casual" gamer will change.

The price issue interests me. Nintendo has the advantage that there is a core of long-time Nintendo fans, such as myself, who will buy whatever they sell soon after launch. I know Iwata has said he doesnt like price cuts to fuel growth. I wonder if he's changed from "normal to lower prices" bad, "elevated to normal prices" ok, knowing that Nintendo fans will buy whatever is produced for almost a year at whatever price. The 3DS (assuming it gets a price cut to a more realistic price within a year) and the rumored price for Wii2 sorta point me to that conclusion.