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[rezuth]

Or, as I said, use the gyro like Zelda SS does.

While that is a fun novelty it will never be a main controller input for such games. Just look at how Miyamoto approaches it for Zelda OoT: " You can aim the bow/slingshot by moving the system. Miyamoto recommends to do this when no one's around to see you, lol.

No one wants to stand around or move a lot for longer period of gaming.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Except you're now alienating 90 percent of the population that's right hand dominate. A pointer that's locked to the left hand is even worse than dual shock for shooters.

I suppose you could make the opposite argument about GH's design with the pen. You're forcing left handers to point with their right hand.

That was the elegance of the Wiimote setup. You could hold either controller in either hand. This whole concept is probably doomed for this reason.

 

[Jocchan]

It's definitely more capable, I think it's more or less equivalent to the leap from PS2 to Gamecube. I can see why some people would be wowed and others wouldn't.

A more fitting example would probably be the leap from PS2 to Xbox.

While that is a fun novelty it will never be a main controller input for such games. Just look at how Miyamoto approaches it for Zelda OoT: " You can aim the bow/slingshot by moving the system. Miyamoto recommends to do this when no one's around to see you, lol.

No one wants to stand around or move a lot for longer period of gaming.

Oh, I know, but Miyamoto also said:

Adds that proper implementation of gyro controls should be better than a second stick for the purpose of controlling a camera.

EDIT:

Except you're now alienating 90 percent of the population that's right hand dominate. A pointer that's locked to the left hand is even worse than dual shock for shooters.

I suppose you could make the opposite argument about GH's design with the pen. You're forcing left handers to point with their right hand.

That was the elegance of the Wiimote setup. You could hold either controller in either hand. This whole concept is probably doomed for this reason.

I think his point was that you'd detach the modified wiimote whenever pointing is needed.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I suppose you could make the opposite argument about GH's design with the pen. You're forcing left handers to point with their right hand.

Apart from the Tingle one my designs have been just as ambidextrous as the DS. The Sony one with the screen to the side would be turned upside down for left handers.

 

[brain_stew]

Yeah, the bolded part sounds about right
Besides the comparison making little sense per se, as impressive as GoW may look for the hardware it's running on (it certainly does), RE pushes several effects leagues beyond what you can achieve on a PSP. MT Framework is pretty impressive on the 3DS.

Its also rendering in sterescopic 3D, which literally doubles the workload. PSP titles in full resolution S3D would like first generation Dreamcast titles, at best. The respective GPUs are in completely different leagues and the 3DS also has a 4x bigger RAM pool, there's no comparison.

 

[plainr_]

Except you're now alienating 90 percent of the population that's right hand dominate. A pointer that's locked to the left hand is even worse than dual shock for shooters.

I suppose you could make the opposite argument about GH's design with the pen. You're forcing left handers to point with their right hand.

That was the elegance of the Wiimote setup. You could hold either controller in either hand. This whole concept is probably doomed for this reason.

Possibly attach the Wii Remote upside down? IDK. Might be awkward but it's a decent alternative for lefty's.

EDIT: Sractch that. The trigger behind the unit might cause a problem.

 

[Jocchan]

Its also rendering in sterescopic 3D, which literally doubles the workload. PSP titles in full resolution S3D would like first generation Dreamcast titles, at best. The respective GPUs are in completely different leagues and the 3DS also has a 4x bigger RAM pool, there's no comparison.

Oh, definitely. I didn't even mention how the comparison was between a late generation PSP title and a first generation 3DS one. I wouldn't be surprised to see much better looking games from Capcom later on.

 

[1-D_FTW]

A more fitting example would probably be the leap from PS2 to Xbox.


Oh, I know, but Miyamoto also said:


EDIT:

I think his point was that you'd detach the modified wiimote whenever pointing is needed.

But if it can't effectively double as Nunchuk 2.0, it's not worth the effort of making it modular. Just pack in a Wiimote+ and call it a day.

Apart from the Tingle one my designs have been just as ambidextrous as the DS. The Sony one with the screen to the side would be turned upside down for left handers.

It's been a while since it was posted. Forgot just how good that design was.

But I think we can assume, if 01.net is correct, it's more traditional and not something the official controller will be doing.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

There's just so much potential yet to be had for traditional "core" genres, but obstinate gamers and ignorant enthusiast media kept whining how the Wii was all waggle and couldn't work for conventional games.

It definitely lacked enough buttons that it made control equivalency with Dual Shock type controllers difficult. I think most of these problems could be alleviated without making the controller look "too scary", though.

While everyone else wants to mock up the frankentroller, this puts me in the mood to mock up a Wii Remote/Nunchuk Plus Plus.

 

[Graphics Horse]

But I think we can assume, if 01.net is correct, it's more traditional and not something the official controller will be doing.

Yep, but it should be symetrical enough for it not to matter which hand does what. Setting up your Mii might include telling it whether you're left handed or right handed.

It definitely lacked enough buttons that it made control equivalency with Dual Shock type controllers difficult.

Not by much in all honestly, at least not Dual Shock games which relied on Right Stick and triggers. They only give you 2 primary buttons on each side plus clicky sticks.

Add a clickable stick and dpad to the nunchuck, switch the Wiimote d-pad into 4 buttons and add a second analog trigger, keep the A button as primary thumb button.

 

[First Children]

Also, I don't think God of War is a 360° environment, the camera is usually half-blocked in a direction, so all poligons and textures are put on screen while there is nothing else around, or am I wrong?

 

[Jocchan]

But if it can't effectively double as Nunchuk 2.0, it's not worth the effort of making it modular. Just pack in a Wiimote+ and call it a day.

Oh, I know. I doubt they're going for such a solution.
To be honest, I'm quite puzzled by all the rumors about the controller. They hardly sound like something Nintendo would do, in my opinion. We'll see.

 

[Naked Prime]

I wonder if they are gonna include any vitality sensor functionality to the controller? Couldn't they just place heart rate sensors similar to those metal strips on exercise equipment. Also I suspect some buttons may be placed on the underside of the controller.

One thing that gets me is Capcom's Ono mentioned that SSF4:3D would connect to a console and....(you know the rest). To what game I wonder. If this doesn't ship till 2012 SSF4:AE would be almost pointless. They announce the game at E3 then its released the next week on PS3/360 then almost 9 months later its released in Spring 2012 possibly right before SFxTekken. I can't see it connecting with SFxTekken, so if SSF4:AE is coming to the system maybe Nintendo will launch this fall after all. Either way...good times ahead

 

[Freezie KO]

It definitely lacked enough buttons that it made control equivalency with Dual Shock type controllers difficult. I think most of these problems could be alleviated without making the controller look "too scary", though.

While everyone else wants to mock up the frankentroller, this puts me in the mood to mock up a Wii Remote/Nunchuk Plus Plus.

Totally agree. A new remote would need more buttons. I suggested four bean-shaped buttons around an A button that is actually a clickable analog slider a la 3DS. But if we got more buttons, I'd be more than content with a Remote/'Chuk version 2.0 (or 3.0 if you consider the Wiimote Plus).

 

[MadOdorMachine]

A more fitting example would probably be the leap from PS2 to Xbox.

I said a marginal jump from PSP to 3DS and you're comparing it as a jump from PS2 to Xbox and calling me a troll? Don't you think you're being a bit hypocritical?

To clarify, I'm not saying the leap from DS to 3DS wasn't significant. I'm saying the leap from PSP to 3DS is marginal. I think that's what's important and what people are taking out of context. I'm not saying the 3DS isn't more powerful than the PSP, I'm just saying the jump isn't a significant leap and that the same comparison is what I expect out of Wii 2 compared to 360/PS3. Comparing the NGP to 3DS is about what I expect the next Sony and Microsoft system to be compared to Wii 2 as well. I'd love to be wrong and see the Wii 2 be significantly more powerful than PS3/360 though.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Its also rendering in sterescopic 3D, which literally doubles the workload. PSP titles in full resolution S3D would like first generation Dreamcast titles, at best. The respective GPUs are in completely different leagues and the 3DS also has a 4x bigger RAM pool, there's no comparison.

It doesn't matter if it's in 3D or not. It looks how it looks. A lot of games this gen look marginally better than last gen despite the massive increase in power.

 

[AceBandage]

If the jump in power from 360 to Cafe was the same as PSP to 3DS, but without having to render games in 3D, it would destroy the 360 in every conceivable aspect.
Like going from Crysis on Low to Enthusiast and more than doubling the framerate.

 

[Xun]

Just modified your design slightly.

 

[Graphics Horse]

If the jump in power from 360 to Cafe was the same as PSP to 3DS, but without having to render games in 3D, it would destroy the 360 in every conceivable aspect.
Like going from Crysis on Low to Enthusiast and more than doubling the framerate.

3DS has to render 3 screens (kind of)

Cafe may have to support rendering up to 5 screens :O

 

[AceBandage]

3DS has to render 3 screens (kind of)

Cafe may have to render up to 5 screens :O

Really, I never see it doing more than 4 (the controllers). If you're rendering the game on all 4 low res screens, then you don't need the big HD screen.
And even then, multiplayer always takes a hit on the engine, so this is nothing new.
Single player, where you're just rendering basic stuff to the controller wouldn't eat up a lot.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Really, I never see it doing more than 4 (the controllers). If you're rendering the game on all 4 low res screens, then you don't need the big HD screen.
And even then, multiplayer always takes a hit on the engine, so this is nothing new.
Single player, where you're just rendering basic stuff to the controller wouldn't eat up a lot.

Sure, but there may be some multiplayer games which share the load between 5 screens.

Sega have been making games like that since the deluxe multiplayer Virtua Racing with spectator cam.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

If the jump in power from 360 to Cafe was the same as PSP to 3DS, but without having to render games in 3D, it would destroy the 360 in every conceivable aspect.
Like going from Crysis on Low to Enthusiast and more than doubling the framerate.

I hope you're right about it destroying 360/PS3 but I'm not getting my hopes up. Remember the Wii 2 is supposed to stream video and possibly have some other huge surprise as well, so that extra power may not be applicable just like the 3DS. There's still a lot we don't know.

I'd love to see a developer disable the 3D though and make a game that shows off what the 3DS can do. As long as I get my Castlevania and Metroid I'll be more than content though. Even a Zelda game on a system with marginally better graphics than 360/PS3 will be nice. Would I like it to be better? Of course, but I just don't see Nintendo making a Zelda game that looks Witcher 2.

 

[Jocchan]

I said a marginal jump from PSP to 3DS and you're comparing it as a jump from PS2 to Xbox and calling me a troll? Don't you think you're being a bit hypocritical?

To clarify, I'm not saying the leap from DS to 3DS wasn't significant. I'm saying the leap from PSP to 3DS is marginal. I think that's what's important and what people are taking out of context. I'm not saying the 3DS isn't more powerful than the PSP, I'm just saying the jump isn't a significant leap and that the same comparison is what I expect out of Wii 2 compared to 360/PS3. Comparing the NGP to 3DS is about what I expect the next Sony and Microsoft system to be compared to Wii 2 as well. I'd love to be wrong and see the Wii 2 be significantly more powerful than PS3/360 though.

It's not hypocritical, since the leap from PS2 to Xbox was not marginal. The Xbox was objectively a far more capable machine, as shown by its exclusives. If anything, it boils down to what you mean by marginal. If you're using it as "anything less than a full generation leap", then I guess we could say it's marginal. If you're not, then hell no

It doesn't matter if it's in 3D or not. It looks how it looks. A lot of games this gen look marginally better than last gen despite the massive increase in power.

It does matter, actually. Even if you're not a fan of 3D, it does change how a game looks and you can't just pretend its impact on performance is zero.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Well if each handheld screen displayed 960 x 540, it would be technically indistinguishable from 4 player split-screening on a game that is rendering 1920 x 1080 (1080p). Halving the dimensions of the screens divides the number of pixels by 4.

Then when you streamed your single player games to the handheld instead of running it on the PC, it would just downsample to the screen res, since it's got the same ratio. I'm not 100% on the details, but rendering @ 1080p then downsampling to 540p sounds like you're getting free AA.

 

[Jocchan]

3DS has to render 3 screens (kind of)

Cafe may have to support rendering up to 5 screens :O

Which is the reason why I'm not really convinced by the streaming aspect, especially if Nintendo is aiming for 1080p on the main screen and each screen has indeed a resolution in the 800x500 range (or the 960x540 I suggested earlier ).

 

[French]

If the jump in power from 360 to Cafe was the same as PSP to 3DS, but without having to render games in 3D, it would destroy the 360 in every conceivable aspect.
Like going from Crysis on Low to Enthusiast and more than doubling the framerate.

It will end up being Crysis medium while the real next generation will be Crysis high.

 

[AceBandage]

It will end up being Crysis medium while the real next generation will be Crysis high.

Which would still put Nintendo in a great position. As opposed to the Wii where it was Crysis non-existent to Crysis on Medium.

 

[1-D_FTW]

If we're redoing that imagine, here's mine:

I think the changes are self explanatory. This way the controller can be held left or right handed (By having orientation on screen flip) when using the Wiimote 2.0.

 

[French]

Which would still put Nintendo in a great position. As opposed to the Wii where it was Crysis non-existent to Crysis on Medium.

Yes but that wouldn't be as good as the GC, which was pretty powerful.

But at least E3 will not be as boring as last year if they announce it.

 

[Buckethead]

My eyes hurt.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

It's not hypocritical, since the leap from PS2 to Xbox was not marginal. The Xbox was objectively a far more capable machine, as shown by its exclusives. If anything, it boils down to what you mean by marginal. If you're using it as "anything less than a full generation leap", then I guess we could say it's marginal. If you're not, then hell no


It does matter, actually. Even if you're not a fan of 3D, it does change how a game looks and you can't just pretend its impact on performance is zero.

I think I see what's happening here. I must have miscommunicated my point. I'm talking strictly about graphics and how they appear on the screen, not the actual hardware powering the system.

As far as the Xbox to PS2 comparison goes, I wouldn't say that's a significant increase. Maybe marginal isn't a good word to use, but I would say that's a fair comparison of what I consider the difference between PSP and 3DS is as well as what I expect the difference in 360/PS3 to be to Wii2. What I want is something like Crysis 1 at max settings, full 1080p and 60fps as a minimum standard for next gen. Imagine what developers could do on a system like that.

 

[EatChildren]

The statements are too ambiguous to draw any sort of conclusions yet. Expecting something around a 3-4x leap forward on the GPU side, a 1.5-2x increase on the CPU side seems to be the safest bet atm. That should deliver some impressive results given a doubling of the memory pool and a more modern memory solution (simply using modern GDDR5 over the slow GDDR3 in the 360 will deliver >3x the bandwidth).

I do hope that, in the long run, Nintendo are really going for a 'PS2' kind of situation here, so that when the PS4/Xbox3 arrive they're very much like an Xbox+, allowing many games to still run on Nintendo's platform although at downscaled visuals.

I dont know if the market will lap up a souped up 360/PS3, that is then leap frogged when the next systems from Sony and Microsoft come out.

 

[AceBandage]

Yes but that wouldn't be as good as the GC, which was pretty powerful.

But at least E3 will not be as boring as last year if they announce it.

Eh?
We must have watched a different E3, because Nintendo's E3 last year was awesome.

 

[French]

Eh?
We must have watched a different E3, because Nintendo's E3 last year was awesome.

That was the best one yeah, but I'm talking about the whole thing.

If Nintendo announces a new home console and Sony presents the NGP, that will be a lot better than last year.

 

[Azure J]

As much as I'm a part of the "Motion Controls Done Right" and more importantly the "Pointer Controls/Split Controller" defense forces, and I would also like to see a revamped remote/chuk combo, hasn't it already been stated that WiiRemote/Remote Plus and Nunchuk backwards compatibility is (mostly) a given now?

Or is this discussion more about whether or not Pointer/Motion done with the Wii Remote will get overshadowed or in a worse case scenario completely ignored in the face of the new and somewhat more traditional controller?

 

[Maxrunner]

I thought these were fake??

 

[Graphics Horse]

http://www-bgr-com.vimg.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/nintendo-project-cafe2110422135328.jpg[/IMG]

I thought these were fake??

So why are you posting them?
They don't show any concepts which weren't already speculated on before they appeared.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Which would still put Nintendo in a great position. As opposed to the Wii where it was Crysis non-existent to Crysis on Medium.

Some Crysis fans might think Wii got the better deal out of that one See maybe that's where opinions really make a difference. I thought Crysis 2 looked like crap on PS3, but think Metroid: Other M is one of the best looking games on Wii.

 

[AceBandage]

http://www-bgr-com.vimg.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/nintendo-project-cafe2110422135328.jpg

I thought these were fake??[/QUOTE]


Faker than a super model's breasts.

[QUOTE=MadOdorMachine]Some Crysis fans might think Wii got the better deal out of that one;) See maybe that's where opinions really make a difference. I thought Crysis 2 looked like crap on PS3, but think Metroid: Other M is one of the best looking games on Wii.[/QUOTE]


That's purely artstyle.
Which is why it really never matters how powerful a Nintendo system is for Nintendo games. They will look gorgeous.
The only reason they're going this route is to appease third parties.

 

[First Children]

Edit: nevermind xD

 

[MadOdorMachine]

That's purely artstyle.
Which is why it really never matters how powerful a Nintendo system is for Nintendo games. They will look gorgeous.
The only reason they're going this route is to appease third parties.

For Metroid yes, but for Crysis 2 art direction wasn't my issue. PS3 just couldn't push the game as it was intended. Even after all the sacrifices they made, it still looked like a blurry pile of low-rez, glitchy crap imo. I hope they bring CE3 to Wii 2 though. It would be nice if it could run Crysis 2 at 1080p and max settings. I would be shocked and pleasantly surprised if it could do that.

 

[devildog820]

I thought these were fake??

Me too. However, Boy Genius Report ran them as real. BGR is usually dead on with non video game stuff. However, they also ran a picture of the console which was pretty much confirmed fake. Nintendo doesn't usually give devs a heads up on the look of the consumer designs until very close to launch. Devs just get dev kits that look like mini tower PCs.

 

[Taker666]

Rather than the "plug the Wiimote into the shell" type of thing that's being suggested...

...couldn't they create some sort of swappable "heart" that could be used in multiple devices?

Have a self contained unit which contained the battery, gyro, memory, wifi etc which can slot neatly into the underside of the pad or into a new Wii remote. Might make things a tad sleaker.

 

[From The Dust]

Me too. However, Boy Genius Report ran them as real. BGR is usually dead on with non video game stuff. However, they also ran a picture of the console which was pretty much confirmed fake. Nintendo doesn't usually give devs a heads up on the look of the consumer designs until very close to launch. Devs just get dev kits that look like mini tower PCs.

They could always show the developers pictures of the intended final design

 

[crazy monkey]

Faker than a super model's breasts.


.

do they even have breast now a days? They are so small and petite.

 

[AceBandage]

do they even have breast now a days? They are so small and petite.

If only.

So good...

 

[Buckethead]

Super models don't have breasts.

The profession you are looking for is "porn star" or "stripper" or "reality TV show star".

 

[Jocchan]

Well if each handheld screen displayed 960 x 540, it would be technically indistinguishable from 4 player split-screening on a game that is rendering 1920 x 1080 (1080p). Halving the dimensions of the screens divides the number of pixels by 4.

Then when you streamed your single player games to the handheld instead of running it on the PC, it would just downsample to the screen res, since it's got the same ratio. I'm not 100% on the details, but rendering @ 1080p then downsampling to 540p sounds like you're getting free AA.

With the 3DS, Nintendo said explicitly they want their machines to have stable and predictable performance. For a 5-screen setup, *in theory* they would be more likely to plan a dual 1080p output with the second screen always split in four parts, each streamed to a different controller. So, each quarter would always be a 960x540 portion of a split screen, not necessarily depending on what's in the main screen (just like the second screen on DS and 3DS).

The impact on performance would be extremely predictable (you'd be always rendering on two screens and allotting different resources to either depending on your game)... but, of course, pretty damn significant. Especially coming from a generation of sub-HD games on a single screen, such a solution could easily look like crazy talk (and it probably is).

I'm obviously not suggesting they're going to do this. I'm just saying it's how I'd expect Nintendo to approach such a problem (supporting up to 5 screens), and it's the reason why I'm not really convinced by this whole matter.

 

[Refreshment.01]

This the idea (not exactly like this but..) that's a lot of us are suggesting. A transformer controller. A lot cooler than packing two different controller solutions in the box.

Something like the Hydra, so it would work independent of line of sight.

The touch screen could be mounted on the system to recharge or put into something like a sensor bar so the camera function to track the head or face recognition.

 

[Mr. Spinnington]

If only.

So good...

i'll be in my bunk

and then her bunk


maybe your bunk for good measure

then back in my bunk