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[watershed]

Ahh, well, my never talking crazy makes sense then. I think the "casuals" will eventually adopt it, but then I think the definition of "casual" gamer will change.

The price issue interests me. Nintendo has the advantage that there is a core of long-time Nintendo fans, such as myself, who will buy whatever they sell soon after launch. I know Iwata has said he doesnt like price cuts to fuel growth. I wonder if he's changed from "normal to lower prices" bad, "elevated to normal prices" ok, knowing that Nintendo fans will buy whatever is produced for almost a year at whatever price. The 3DS (assuming it gets a price cut to a more realistic price within a year) and the rumored price for Wii2 sorta point me to that conclusion.

Yeah I don't like the price of the 3ds but I still bought one at launch. But I can't imagine jumping at the N6 at launch unless I had more money and the launch line up is amazing. I think Nintendo is making a mistake with the pricing of the 3ds in America, Europe, and Japan (basically everywhere), and the rumors suggest the N6 will follow.

But how do you think the definition of "casual" is changing in a way that will negatively affect Nintendo or not?

 

[Lonewolf_92]

the french site said it looks like

with buttons around. I hate all of this. Wii remote was such a good idea.

Maybe the side controller parts (that is to say, the parts with the buttons, triggers, analogs and such) are just slotted into the frame of the touchscreen (like the Wiimote in that shot) and can be slide out and used standalone when the situation and/or game your playing calls for it. That would also solve the center of the screen being hard to reach if your hands are on the controls, just take them up!

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Yeah I don't like the price of the 3ds but I still bought one at launch. But I can't imagine jumping at the N6 at launch unless I had more money and the launch line up is amazing. I think Nintendo is making a mistake with the pricing of the 3ds in America, Europe, and Japan (basically everywhere), and the rumors suggest the N6 will follow.

But how do you think the definition of "casual" is changing in a way that will negatively affect Nintendo or not?

Well, I think the new "casual" gamer is the person who plays angry birds for 10 min before their show comes on. Or the gamer who plays IPhone SFIV before/while watching a movie streamed to their TV from Netflix. Nintendo, nor MS or Sony, can't really compete for them at the moment. A powerful Nintendo system, with anywhere gaming functionality and Nintendo games could I think. Or at the least provide more room for growth than trying to fight over the old "waggle" casuals with Nintendo's own Wii and Kinect. I do think dropping the current Wii package to $100, encouraging Just Dance 3 to be on it and what not is a great idea, no need to entirely cede that market to MS.

As a side note, a doll of K.K. Slider in that same pose was my first video game forum avatar. So you know, it used to be a high five, I guess it's a bro-fist today, whatever.

 

[Always-honest]

that looks like a babies toy

yeah.. but it won't LOOK exactly like that... what they're trying to say is that it's a tablet with a stylus. That's all the "looks like" you're alowed to take out of this i think.

And IF there are dual analogue sticks on the pad, don't make them the shitty ones like on the 3DS.

 

[watershed]

A powerful Nintendo system, with anywhere gaming functionality and Nintendo games could I think.

As a side note, a doll of K.K. Slider in that same pose was my first video game forum avatar. So you know, it used to be a high five, I guess it's a bro-fist today, whatever.

Cool, K.K. Slider is a great character though on that subject Animal Crossing needs to evolve some. I think its a shame that its less involved than farming and other sim games on facebook. Edit: I just added u to my buddy list but what does that actually do? I've never used it.

Back on topic, I hope this new screen controller thing really does add something innovative to gaming. Despite the hate it gets on GAF the Wii really moved the game industry. Its hard to imagine Nintendo doing this again. Unless the vitality sensor is built into it somehow.

 

[Wazzim]

I hope this thing can run Battle field 3 on max settings.. would be awesome.. especially with a gimmick controller.. E3 needs to hurry up

Ofcourse it won't run BF3 on max settings lol.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Cool, K.K. Slider is a great character though on that subject Animal Crossing needs to evolve some. I think its a shame that its less involved than farming and other sim games on facebook. Edit: I just added u to my buddy list but what does that actually do? I've never used it.

Back on topic, I hope this new screen controller thing really does add something innovative to gaming. Despite the hate it gets on GAF the Wii really moved the game industry. Its hard to imagine Nintendo doing this again. Unless the vitality sensor is built into it somehow.

Agree completely on Animal Crossing. One of my favorite concepts for a video game, but I'm not buying Animal Crossing 64 for a 4th time. No idea what the buddy list does, I've been here 3 years or so and never used it. First time for everything I suppose. EDIT: Upon further research, yeah, no idea what the "buddy list" does.

I know I'm back to assuming, but I can't see Nintendo spending years on it and incorporating into their next console if it doesn't add something innovative.

Ofcourse it won't run BF3 on max settings lol.

Why not?

 

[Graphics Horse]

I hate FPSs on DS. Touching the bottom screen to move the camera on the top screen stinks. Metroid Prime Hunters got it right with one of the control styles in the demo (touch where you want to shoot), and then they went and screwed it up in the retail game. Pointer is way stinking better than the huge step backward typical DS FPS controls would be.

Stylus which doubles as a pointer = Stylus which doubles as a pointer, not stylus which doubles as a stylus...

 

[watershed]

I know I'm back to assuming, but I can't see Nintendo spending years on it and incorporating into their next console if it doesn't add something innovative.

All the money they've spent on R&D, I agree it must do something amazing because it doesn't take literally a billion+ dollars and 5 years to figure out how to stream data to another screen.

I also desperately hope they spent a lot of that money figuring out how to engineer a relatively cheap and compact console that can output amazing graphics with complex physics etc. Everyone thinks Nintendo are engineering wizards I hope Nintendo proves us right with this next console.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Ugh. This is why games have to be 60fps for me. 30fps looks like shit in comparison unless the animation is really lacking.

30 fps is 20% better than 24fps as shown there. I'm perfectly happy with it, and most people don't notice unless they're doing like a side-by-side comparison.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

30 fps is 20% better than 24fps as shown there. I'm perfectly happy with it, and most people don't notice unless they're doing like a side-by-side comparison.

To each his own but for me 20% better isn't good enough. And I immediately notice the change especially for well animated games.

If its a game with shitty animation like say The Witcher than it wouldn't matter all that much. But if its a game like say Grand Theft Auto IV or Devil May Cry 4 then its a must.

 

[runnin_blue]

I can't believe so many people are worried about the controller.

Nintendo have always put out brilliant controllers, they are experts in the field. If you want proof go look at the other manufacturers over time and how they mimmicked Nintendo's designs.

Fear not.

 

[EatChildren]

I can't believe so many people are worried about the controller.

Nintendo have always put out brilliant controllers, they are experts in the field. If you want proof go look at the other manufacturers over time and how they mimmicked Nintendo's designs.

Fear not.

I'm not worried about the controller being comfortable and useful, I'm worried that Nintendo will backtrack on the pointer and motion controls because a bunch of whiny bitches couldn't live without shitty dual analogue, and refuse to accept any control pad that isn't a brick.

It's jumping the gun to draw any conclusions at this point, but I absolutely do not want another fucking brick pad as the standard, not when the split controller design is so much more comfortable and makes brilliant use of the pointer.

Everything that could be accomplished with a second analogue stick and more buttons can still be attached to a split controller system that still uses a pointer. If they've joined the two parts back together and stuck a screen in a middle I wont give a rat's arse how comfortable it is. It would, quite literally, be for me the most disappointing hardware move Nintendo had ever done. More than the Wii's weak horsepower, more than their shitty online, more than crappy C-stick, D-pad and Z button on the GCN pad, more than anything.

I cant wait to learn more, because I want any and all concerns I have to be made redundant. I want to know Nintendo are not devolving the controller to appease to those who refuse to move on.

 

[Jackano]

Gamers 2005 - "You know motion control is shit, Nintendo?"

Gamers 2011 - "Do not let down motion controls, Nintendo!"

 

[EatChildren]

Gamers 2005 - "You know motion control is shit, Nintendo?"

Gamers 2011 - "Do not let down motion controls, Nintendo!"

I was all for motion controls as soon as the Wii was announced, and probably enjoyed them more than most people in this thread. Pointer is the super awesome cherry on top.

 

[Peru]

Vote NO to waggling. The controller may look as Nintendo pleases as long as I don't have to waggle.

 

[Wazzim]

Why not?

Frostbite 2.0 uses much cpu power and tesselation. A 3 core CPU with a R700 GPU isn't going to cut it on max settings at 1080P, they might do 720P though.

 

[upandaway]

I cant wait to learn more, because I want any and all concerns I have to be made redundant. I want to know Nintendo are not devolving the controller to appease to those who refuse to move on.

To me it's just as insane and just as ridiculous that they put the analog in the primary position on the 3DS. There is no way 2D games will be the majority on the handheld (and they are supposed to). I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to do something equally dumb for the console's controller.

It's complete insanity to go back to dual controller after the Wiimote in my opinion.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Frostbite 2.0 uses much cpu power and tesselation. A 3 core CPU with a R700 GPU isn't going to cut it on max settings at 1080P, they might do 720P though.

Well I'm not Brain_Stew, but maybe I should say no super DX22 ueber tessaltion (or whatever) max settings. I think by max settings most mean far above what the 360 can do, not necessarily what PC cans do. Like Brain_Stew I love PC gaming for a reason.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Gamers 2005 - "You know motion control is shit, Nintendo?"

Gamers 2011 - "Do not let down motion controls, Nintendo!"

Apparent contradictions arise from assuming that the people complaining are the same in both instances, and that "gamers" are a single monolithic entity with a single consensus-opinion.

 

[freddy]

Gamers 2005 - "You know motion control is shit, Nintendo?"

Gamers 2011 - "Do not let down motion controls, Nintendo!"

Jackano 2011 - "All gamers share a single brain and never evolve or change"

 

[AzureNightmare]

Frostbite 2.0 uses much cpu power and tesselation. A 3 core CPU with a R700 GPU isn't going to cut it on max settings at 1080P, they might do 720P though.

you spout the term "tesselation" as if it were some kind of resource, like RAM. You discredit yourself with your own ignorance. Tesselation is not what you think it is.

Edit: Do your homework before you decide to spout some more of your stupidity.

 

[GDGF]

This thread is going to be over 20,000 by Monday if this keeps up.

 

[luffeN]

This thread is going to be over 20,000 by Monday if this keeps up.

GDGF
Soothsayer
(Today, 11:29 AM)

Edit: And isn't it Tuesday?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

GDGF
Soothsayer
(Today, 11:29 AM)

Edit: And isn't it Tuesday?

Depends on your timezone.

If any new-news comes out of the investor meeting or whatever it is, there will be a new thread.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Everything that could be accomplished with a second analogue stick and more buttons can still be attached to a split controller system that still uses a pointer. If they've joined the two parts back together and stuck a screen in a middle I wont give a rat's arse how comfortable it is. It would, quite literally, be for me the most disappointing hardware move Nintendo had ever done. More than the Wii's weak horsepower, more than their shitty online, more than crappy C-stick, D-pad and Z button on the GCN pad, more than anything.

I feel quite similar about what we'll find out Monday.

The Wiimote's pointer functionality and split-controller design is the best thing that happened to my experience of games in perhaps a decade. It made me enjoy every game more. However..

The awful, shocking implementation of the controller by most games made it one of the most disappointing elements of the last generation. Potential wasn't just squandered, it was dumped overboard.

Nintendo are really stuck in a hard place; they have pioneered something wonderful and they were able to squeeze out a lot of hits and a squillion hardware sales. But the market is responding violently now. I'm not an analyst (thank god) but I don't think this console is going to be an embrace of the hardcore. I think its going to be an embrace of the new casual.

This is what I would include:

1. Cafe System
--- Component Cables (lol)

2. Cafepad Controller
--- Interact mostly with the OS through the screen
--- Gyroscopes but not pointer functionality

3. Redesigned Cafe-mote
--- curved ergonomic design
--- rubber sides and top for grip and safety
--- Acts as movie remote

 

[brain_stew]

RR3DS does look like that. In every aspect the PSP version out performs it. Yes, it's only one example, but even the best looking games like Kid Icarus or Resident Evil only look marginally better than what's available on PSP which was released in 2004. That's the whole point of my argument. People think Nintendo won't release a console (Wii 2) that's only marginally better or equivalent to Xbox 360/PS3. I'm saying they just did it with PSP and not to get your hopes up, but carry on.

Way to lose all your credibility on GAF with a single statement. Happy trolling.

 

[brain_stew]

Frostbite 2.0 uses much cpu power and tesselation. A 3 core CPU with a R700 GPU isn't going to cut it on max settings at 1080P, they might do 720P though.

Statements like "3 core CPU" are utterly meaningless, it says nothing of the performance of the part and has no real bearing on rendering resolution at all. The God awful CPU in the 360 is managing 30fps in Battlefield, which really shows the sort of optimisation you can get from a CPU in a closed box. Doubling the performance of Xenon's cores isn't exactly difficult.

Oh, and fyi, all 4xxx series parts have a hardware tesselator, whether it gets used in Battlefield 3 on Wii2 remains to be seen but its not as if missing a single effect is going to change the complete complexion of the game.

Just a thought: I took another look at the latest IGN article. If their source is so talkative about the GPU, cores, clockspeeds, and even the manufacturer, how come no one bothered to ask about RAM? That would be pretty telling about where we're going, if accurate. So far, no one's taken a stab at it from what I've seen.

As we've seen recently with the 3DS and the 360, PS2 and PS1 before it, the size of the RAM pool is the last specification to be set in stone.

If GDDR5 is used then the max size that can be used is 2GB assuming a 128 bit bus or 1GB assuming a 64 bit bus, both in clamshell mode because 2Gb are the highest density modules that will be available in time for manufacture. This is Nintendo, so expect a nice on chip solution in addition to this.

 

[Xane]

Studies have proven it.

I love you. I hate people that think there's no difference between 30 and 60 fps while there clearly is.
It's just that you're used to motion blur in RL, that's why ~24fps is sufficient to see actual motion video, not seperate images.

 

[hEist]

Did a quick mockup of the Kotaku controller with speakers. Looks a lot better to me for some reason.

ergonomics? where are you?

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Statements like "3 core CPU" are utterly meaningless, it says nothing of the performance of the part and has no real bearing on rendering resolution at all. The God awful CPU in the 360 is managing 30fps in Battlefield, which really shows the sort of optimisation you can get from a CPU in a closed box. Doubling the performance of Xenon's cores isn't exactly difficult.

Oh, and fyi, all 4xxx series parts have a hardware tesselator, whether it gets used in Battlefield 3 on Wii2 remains to be seen but its not as if missing a single effect is going to change the complete complexion of the game.



As we've seen recently with the 3DS and the 360, PS2 and PS1 before it, the size of the RAM pool is the last specification to be set in stone.

Speak of the devil.

 

[EatChildren]

Has brain_stew given his master race thoughts on the rumoured specs and the kind of performance one could expect, relative to the 360/PS3?

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Has brain_stew given his master race thoughts on the rumoured specs and the kind of performance one could expect, relative to the 360/PS3?

As a moslty master race member, I'm interested in hearing it.

 

[Jocchan]

You know, even with a tablet-like setup it doesn't *technically* mean they're getting rid of the pointer entirely. They could just draw a cursor on screen you'd control with the gyroscope, a bit like the bow and slingshot in Zelda SS (they both apparently use the Motion+ gyroscope instead of the pointer).
Still not as intuitive as a wand-like setup for pointing, of course, but the functionality could still be there.

 

[brain_stew]

Has brain_stew given his master race thoughts on the rumoured specs and the kind of performance one could expect, relative to the 360/PS3?

The statements are too ambiguous to draw any sort of conclusions yet. Expecting something around a 3-4x leap forward on the GPU side, a 1.5-2x increase on the CPU side seems to be the safest bet atm. That should deliver some impressive results given a doubling of the memory pool and a more modern memory solution (simply using modern GDDR5 over the slow GDDR3 in the 360 will deliver >3x the bandwidth).

 

[Graphics Horse]

You know, even with a tablet-like setup it doesn't *technically* mean they're getting rid of the pointer entirely. They could just draw a cursor on screen you'd control with the gyroscope, a bit like the bow and slingshot in Zelda SS (they both apparently use the Motion+ gyroscope instead of the pointer).
Still not as intuitive as a wand-like setup for pointing, of course, but the functionality could still be there.

It still needs some sort of reference calibration point occasionally to know where it is pointing in relation to the tv.
Skyward sword is a good example of how they can reduce buttons needed to fit on something the size of a pen, but I'm getting sick of saying that now. In fact, most games praised for their pointer use only seem to use a few buttons.

 

[Jocchan]

It still needs some sort of reference calibration point occasionally to know where it is pointing in relation to the tv.
Skyward sword is a good example of how they can reduce buttons needed to fit on something the size of a pen, but I'm getting sick of saying that now.

Oh, I know. I was saying that a tablet-like shape doesn't automatically mean no pointer functionality anymore.

In fact, most games praised for their pointer use only seem to use a few buttons.

Uhm, not sure about that. Metroid Prime 3 and RE4 are praised for their pointer use, but they still use quite a bit of buttons.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Uhm, not sure about that. Metroid Prime 3 and RE4 are praised for their pointer use, but they still use quite a bit of buttons.

True enough, but I was meaning more essential buttons which need to be used in combination with the pointer. Touch screen and the left hand d-pad could fill in nicely in most cases.

Imagine the pen being able to see when it was being pointed towards the pad, In an FPS you could either bring the pad up or point the pen down to bring a wrist mounted display (in-game) into your field of view. Or just looking at the pad might be a better idea.


With the screen being single touch (resistive?) I can only imagine they're going to include a stylus, the fact we haven't heard anything about that, the talk of improved motion controls, and the 'secret feature' seems to fit in with the pen idea. I'm prepared to be disappointed though.

 

[phisheep]

The Wiimote's pointer functionality and split-controller design is the best thing that happened to my experience of games in perhaps a decade. It made me enjoy every game more. However..

The awful, shocking implementation of the controller by most games made it one of the most disappointing elements of the last generation. Potential wasn't just squandered, it was dumped overboard.

Nintendo are really stuck in a hard place; they have pioneered something wonderful and they were able to squeeze out a lot of hits and a squillion hardware sales. But the market is responding violently now. I'm not an analyst (thank god) but I don't think this console is going to be an embrace of the hardcore. I think its going to be an embrace of the new casual.

I sort of agree. It feels very retro now (and not usually in a good way) to go back to a traditional controller. The Wiimote/nunchuck combo lends itself to all sorts of nice subtle ways of playing, and that shouldn't be overshadowed by the fact that many games either didn't make good use of it or overplayed the motion stuff. Subtle is best.

As to who the new console is going to embrace, I can't see that it will pander to all the trivil demands of the hardcore but I do expect it to make nods in the right direction (for example, it may not do dual analogues but I'd expect soething cosely equivalent)

 

[plainr_]

 

[First Children]

I could see the third project cafe design, if the screen only reached the top of the controller, looking like a gamecube wavebird controller.

ergonomics? where are you?

http://cache.static.tsavo.com/wordpress/uploads/2011/04/nintendo-project-cafe.jpg

We are still here?
Surely it's the most ergonomic design, it has triggers, 2 analog sticks and everything.

if it's a tablet I don't see how it can have triggers. Or some rumours are wrong.

 

[Freezie KO]

I'm not worried about the controller being comfortable and useful, I'm worried that Nintendo will backtrack on the pointer and motion controls because a bunch of whiny bitches couldn't live without shitty dual analogue, and refuse to accept any control pad that isn't a brick.

It's jumping the gun to draw any conclusions at this point, but I absolutely do not want another fucking brick pad as the standard, not when the split controller design is so much more comfortable and makes brilliant use of the pointer.

Everything that could be accomplished with a second analogue stick and more buttons can still be attached to a split controller system that still uses a pointer. If they've joined the two parts back together and stuck a screen in a middle I wont give a rat's arse how comfortable it is. It would, quite literally, be for me the most disappointing hardware move Nintendo had ever done. More than the Wii's weak horsepower, more than their shitty online, more than crappy C-stick, D-pad and Z button on the GCN pad, more than anything.

I cant wait to learn more, because I want any and all concerns I have to be made redundant. I want to know Nintendo are not devolving the controller to appease to those who refuse to move on.

You and me, we're on the same page.

Waggle is a software decision. It can be used poorly (DKCR) or well (Shaking to reload) or not at all.

And dual analog can still be had if *gasp* your hands are apart and holding two apparatuses.

But the pointer is where it's at, and it needs that set up. It doesn't matter if Nintendo was at all serious about "revolutionizing" controls, they did it regardless. The pointer has so much untapped potential. If third parties jump on board because of the HD and the power, then we'll actually get to see it get used, I hope.

Nintendo's made mistakes which you've done well to list. But this would be top the biggest disappointments if they jettisoned pointer functionality to, as you said, appease the whiny bitches.

 

[Graphics Horse]

http://cache.static.tsavo.com/wordpress/uploads/2011/04/nintendo-project-cafe.jpg

We are still here?
Surely it's the most ergonomic design, it has triggers, 2 analog sticks and everything.

if it's a tablet I don't see how it can have triggers. Or some rumours are wrong.

The NGP has triggers, If you made the NGP taller and more rectangular you could fit a 5" x 3.75" screen on it no problem. That's 6.25" 4:3.

Edit:

It's likely to be a tad wider though, and hopefully nicer looking.

http://i.imgur.com/NDf0j.jpg

Not bad, you need to put that through a projector and take a few photos!

 

[rezuth]

It makes sense for the controller to have a touchscreen if you are going to stream games to the controller. It would make up for the lack of a pointer as you could just press instead.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Way to lose all your credibility on GAF with a single statement. Happy trolling.

Take it as you will I guess. To me, this looks marginally better than this.

Call it trolling if you want. I'm just pointing out that a Wii 2 that's only marginally more powerful than 360/PS3 isn't out of the realm of possibility. People are getting their hopes up and I want a powerful console, don't get me wrong - I want bleeding edge, but I don't think Nintendo will give us a console that's significantly more powerful than 360/PS3. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

 

[Jocchan]

It makes sense for the controller to have a touchscreen if you are going to stream games to the controller. It would make up for the lack of a pointer as you could just press instead.

Or, as I said, use the gyro like Zelda SS does.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I really like this. Although for Wii BC the d-pad should be replaced with the an A button.

 

[Jocchan]

Take it as you will I guess. To me, this looks marginally better than this.

Call it trolling if you want.

Yeah, the bolded part sounds about right
Besides the comparison making little sense per se, as impressive as GoW may look for the hardware it's running on (it certainly does), RE pushes several effects leagues beyond what you can achieve on a PSP. MT Framework is pretty impressive on the 3DS.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

WHERE IS THE A BUTTON ON THE REMOTE?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Yeah, the bolded part sounds about right
Besides the comparison making little sense per se, as impressive as GoW may look for the hardware it's running on (it certainly does), RE pushes several effects leagues beyond what you can achieve on a PSP. MT Framework is pretty impressive on the 3DS.

It's definitely more capable, I think it's more or less equivalent to the leap from PS2 to Gamecube. I can see why some people would be wowed and others wouldn't.