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[blu]

Isn't it a trade off of computation Vs storage/bandwidth? Drawing a 100k character should be faster than drawing a 25k character and using tessellation to make it into 100k, but it requires more storage to hold those vertices and more bandwidth to transfer.

Actually tessellation can be both a BW and a computational saving. Most adaptive tessellation methods are applied in screen space - i.e. they don't just increase the mesh complexity per se, but they try to do that only where that is needed. In this regard, instead of sending off 100K vertices that undergo the vertex shader, of which you may see just a fraction since most of them end up in sub-pixel tris most of the time, you send just a fraction of those, and only those go through the vertex shader whereas the remaining 'synthetic' ones undergo a specialized, normally simpler shader (domain shader in DX terms, evaluation shader in GL terms). It's a win-win scenario.

I thought tessellation units weren't all that fantastic yet, or is that just inefficient PC engines not being used to using them properly?

Not that long ago it was both. Not anymore, though.

 

[Dennis]

So are the specs in the OP pretty much accepted as fact or still in dispute?

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Probably this:
https://twitter.com/IBMWatson/status/240241146213842944
edit: beaten

So it all goes back to that article.

So that is probably why the PowerPC 476 is the rumored CPU for Wii U. It has some of the same tech as a Power7 but it is also a direct decedent to the Wii's Broadway CPU. Which is why some were calling it an "enhanced" Broadway.

It's not a Broadway but it's footprint is similar, which probably means they can down clock one of the cores and put it in (as what Nintendo calls it) "Wii mode"....


It doesn't change the fact that Wii U's CPU is a new custom design as stated by IBM.

 

[BlackJace]

So are the specs in the OP pretty much accepted as fact or still in dispute?

Besides the CPU I think so.
(accepted as fact)

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

We don't know if Nintendo will be making a profit on wii u

Yeah we do. Reggie has openly, if slightly indirectly, stated that they are right after the conference:

"In terms of profitability, we don't comment on our internal byproduct P&L, but as a philosophy, we believe in making money on our hardware, even if it's small amounts of money at the start. We don't believe in losing a lot of money on hardware."

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...-explains-why-USD299-is-a-really-strong-value

To which I say - good for them. It actually makes me feel more secure of my purchase in this particular instance where the company lives and dies off their gaming business.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Besides the CPU I think so.
(accepted as fact)

DX10.1 & SM4.0 equivalents are baselines, they are actually greater, as mentioned by the person who wrote the quote, not the website who posted it.

 

[Orayn]

So are the specs in the OP pretty much accepted as fact or still in dispute?

CPU is still murky, but the RAM and the GPU's feature set are both confirmed.

 

[Lonely1]

So are the specs in the OP pretty much accepted as fact or still in dispute?

Since they are very vague, yes. Except the RAM part which has been confirmed to be 2GB, which was the only hard number in the OP.

 

[pieatorium]

Since they are very vague, yes. Except the RAM part which has been confirmed to be 2GB, which was the only hard number in the OP.

The ram number from the OP is correct though. Only 1 gig is available for games.

 

[ForeverZero]

1. Three core Broadway=4-10 watts (Depending on how fast it is)
2. Bluray slot load drive=5-6 watts.
3. Wireless NIC=2-3 watts.
4. 2 GB Ram=4-6 watts.
5. Four USB 2.0 Ports=10 watts.
6. Flash Memory=0.25 watts

Add them up all together you get roughly 30-35 watts. At 45w TDP, you only have 10 or 15 watts for the gpu.

 

[Horse Armour]

1. Three core Broadway=4-10 watts (Depending on how fast it is)
2. Bluray slot load drive=5-6 watts.
3. Wireless NIC=2-3 watts.
4. 2 GB Ram=4-6 watts.
5. Four USB 2.0 Ports=10 watts.
6. Flash Memory=0.25 watts

Add them up all together you get roughly 30-35 watts. At 45w TDP, you only have 10 or 15 watts for the gpu.

You also have to remember that the quoted 45W figure is from the power supply drawing energy from the socket, due to power supply losses (best power supplies are ideally 85% efficient at a certain wattage), the actual amount of wattage delivered is lower than that being drawn from the wall. A 45W average power draw would be closer to 45x0.85=38W so the actual power used by the Wii U on average is 38W.

 

[flippedb]

I hope the CPU doesn't suck at the end.

 

[frankie_baby]

1. Three core Broadway=4-10 watts (Depending on how fast it is)
2. Bluray slot load drive=5-6 watts.
3. Wireless NIC=2-3 watts.
4. 2 GB Ram=4-6 watts.
5. Four USB 2.0 Ports=10 watts.
6. Flash Memory=0.25 watts

Add them up all together you get roughly 30-35 watts. At 45w TDP, you only have 10 or 15 watts for the gpu.

I think the USB ports are on top of the 45w not included, they only draw power if something's connected (I think)

 

[mrklaw]

1. Three core Broadway=4-10 watts (Depending on how fast it is)
2. Bluray slot load drive=5-6 watts.
3. Wireless NIC=2-3 watts.
4. 2 GB Ram=4-6 watts.
5. Four USB 2.0 Ports=10 watts.
6. Flash Memory=0.25 watts

Add them up all together you get roughly 30-35 watts. At 45w TDP, you only have 10 or 15 watts for the gpu.

I thought 45W was 'low power' mode,and the full current draw was more like 75W?

 

[Horse Armour]

I thought 45W was 'low power' mode,and the full current draw was more like 75W?

45W is the average draw and 75W is the power supply rating.

 

[RobbieNick]

Can anyone tell me what kind of disc media the WiiU is using? I hear some are saying BluRay, but I highly doubt that.

 

[Nostremitus]

Can anyone tell me what kind of disc media the WiiU is using? I hear some are saying BluRay, but I highly doubt that.

It'll use a proprietary disc based on Blu-ray that has a 22.5 MBps as opposed to 9MBps in the PS3's Blu-ray disc reader.

 

[McHuj]

.

 

[ForeverZero]

Can anyone tell me what kind of disc media the WiiU is using? I hear some are saying BluRay, but I highly doubt that.

Basically, it's a disc that has 25GB of storage. All you need to know.

 

[snowdog1971]

Can anyone tell me what kind of disc media the WiiU is using? I hear some are saying BluRay, but I highly doubt that.

As people have already said it's a proprietary format, but if it looks like a Blu-Ray, walks like a Blu-Ray and quacks like a Blu-Ray then it's a Blu-Ray as far as I'm concerned. Technically the Wii doesn't use DVDs but the drive in the Wii is still a DVD drive. Funnily enough the DVD drive in the Wii can't read +R DVDs without being chipped for some reason but any other DVDs are fine.

If it's anything like the Wii the only thing that's going to stop the U from playing Blu-Ray films is a media player with the necessary codecs.

 

[bgassassin]

It's 40w not 45w according to the ND guys.

 

[Lonely1]

It's 40w not 45w according to the ND guys.

And the GPU?

 

[bgassassin]

And the GPU?

1.21 Jiggawhats.

 

[klier]

Basically, it's a disc that has 25GB of storage. All you need to know.

It's also nice to read the PS3 is 9 MBps, and the WiiU 22.5 MBps...Which will probably result in much faster loading times?

 

[mrklaw]

It's also nice to read the PS3 is 9 MBps, and the WiiU 22.5 MBps...Which will probably result in much faster loading times?

And over twice the ram... So about the same

 

[Orayn]

And over twice the ram... So about the same

Wha? Loading doesn't necessarily mean "filling up" the RAM.

 

[JordanN]

You are very wrong if you think next gen games are necessarily much more expensive than current games. Do you know what costs a lot of money? Optimization on old hardware. Faking visuals to achieve a certain look. That costs money. Assets are already produced in very high quality. The workflow will not change drastically. You have less limitations with new hardware, and if the new consoles from Sony and MS really are as similar as some rumors suggest, multiplatform games will be even cheaper to develop. And that's the problem with the Wii U: It may be simple to port current gen games to the Wii U, but it will be difficult and expensive to port next gen games to the Wii U. And Budgets won't make drastic jumps - they are getting bigger, but only because the gaming market grows.

How can you say that when there are zero official reports on Sony's and Microsoft's next system out? If their systems are much more powerful the devs could just say that WiiU isn't powerful enough for their games and they would have a valid excuse. :/

About this, how would dev's cope with porting to PC next gen? Because unless publisher's expect millions of PC gamers to suddenly buy a GTX 680 en masse next year, they'll be missing out on significant share of the PC market for the same reason.

 

[Nostremitus]

1.21 Jiggawhats.

...don't you mean gigawatts? Doc Brown was using a lesser known old-school pronunciation.

 

[RobbieNick]

Okay, since it's a form of BluRay disc, will it play bluRay movies?

 

[Baconsammy]

Has Nintendo made any indication that Wii U games will require WiiMotion+? I'd rather not buy one of those if I dont have to.

 

[Goldenhen]

Okay, since it's a form of BluRay disc, will it play bluRay movies?

Lol no just like Wii can't play DVD movies.

 

[omonimo]

Okay, since it's a form of BluRay disc, will it play bluRay movies?

Nope.

 

[KojiKnight]

Okay, since it's a form of BluRay disc, will it play bluRay movies?

Hardware wise it probably could, but since Nintendo isn't going to pay for a blu-ray movie license... no no it won't.

 

[JordanN]

Okay, since it's a form of BluRay disc, will it play bluRay movies?

No.

 

[RobbieNick]

Got it.

 

[Theonik]

Okay, since it's a form of BluRay disc, will it play bluRay movies?

No it won't play CD/DVD/BD or any media disk. Nintendo doesn't want to license them.

It'll use a proprietary disc based on Blu-ray that has a 22.5 MBps as opposed to 9MBps in the PS3's Blu-ray disc reader.

It essentially has a 4.5X BD drive. I hope they allow for Dual-layer disks in time. Kinda like the Wii essentially uses single layer DVDs written backwards. (with some games later being dual layer like SSBB)
Wonder what changes Nintendo made to dodge licenses this time.

 

[KojiKnight]

Has Nintendo made any indication that Wii U games will require WiiMotion+? I'd rather not buy one of those if I dont have to.

Some games might. If you have old wiimotes, the add-on is only like $15.

 

[bgassassin]

...don't you mean gigawatts?

Nope. The GPU maintains its low power thanks to Jay-Z.

 

[Linkup]

45W is the average draw and 75W is the power supply rating.

So why does Iwata mention the power supply rating? Just curious.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Is it really 40 watts while displaying graphically intensive games? Or can it actually reach 75? I'm hearing 2 different things here.

 

[Zoramon089]

i verified another time this video, it's probably dynamic resolution for stabilize framerate
sometimes 576p, sometimes 630p but this time i grabed one 720p screen too

How are you even determining this? Especially watching on a vid that's surely compressed and streaming on Youtube where, just by streaming, the quality is already slightly variable (adjusting for bandwidth and connection speed)

 

[phosphor112]

If the consoles could push millions of polygons per character, this would be great but it's not possible to jump from ~30k polygons to the full hi-res models "millions of polygons" without pushing a similar increase in graphics processing and all rumors point under 2TFLOPs, which isn't even the 10X increase I graciously gave in my example.

This means new character models will be made and the hi-res models will be used just as they are now (as normal maps for the lower polygon models that sit at a fraction of those polygon numbers)

EDIT: I'm super late, this has already been addressed.

I don't think you understand. These super high res models will still be made. They don't have to go from 1 million polys to 10 million polys. Thus, production costs shouldn't increase, and in fact decrease as less tweaking needs to be done to get things to run.

 

[snowdog1971]

Lol no just like Wii can't play DVD movies.

Only on a software level. All the Wii needs to play DVD films is a media player and the necessary codecs. As far as the drive itself is concerned the only DVDs it can't read are DVD+Rs.

 

[mrklaw]

Is it really 40 watts while displaying graphically intensive games? Or can it actually reach 75? I'm hearing 2 different things here.

What I heard was as posted at nintendo everything.com

- Uses up to 75 watts of electricity
- Typical power usage is 45 watts

 

[brochiller]

So why does Iwata mention the power supply rating? Just curious.

Iwata said that the max power draw is 75w. I took that to mean that the console will actually be using that much power at times and that it isn't just what the power brick is rated for.

 

[Kenka]

DX10.1 & SM4.0 equivalents are baselines, they are actually greater, as mentioned by the person who wrote the quote, not the website who posted it.

So that means that the GPU could possibly have DX 11 features ? There is a DX 9 vs DX 11 video comparision for Crysis 2. Can we assume we will get effects found in the latter ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rPtdnmib8A&feature=related

 

[RedSwirl]

So now that the GPU is confirmed, what does that really mean for its graphics potential beyond current gen?

 

[ozfunghi]

So that means that the GPU could possibly have DX 11 features ?

Yes, even the source of this leak has admitted as much in this topic.

 

[blu]

45W is the average draw and 75W is the power supply rating.

The power supply rating is given per the output of the PSU, FYI.

 

[Nostremitus]

Nope. The GPU maintains its low power thanks to Jay-Z.

touche'